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That's how i read it.
Otherwise... the market for Freddie would dry up as no one woould be willing sell their shares.
its really just a notice of what's going on with no real bar date. As in the bar date will be the date of settlement...
VERY ripe for manipulation.
Had a boss one time, a ceo, a very respected person in the "business" say something to me as stupid as this...
This where we want to raise the rates and capital return; but don't want to impact those that have the weakest credit and most likely to default; so in a since we are going to put a higher price on better quality credit such that they'll carry the burden, (which will run them off to other lenders) and yet still have great returns on overall excess capital.
So those that are most likely to fail will pay less than those least likely to fail? Complete nonsense as those least likely to fail will when priced up and out will take their business elsewhere, such that the losses on those most likely to fail will not be covered by those that don't fail.
This is exactly like a group health plan with "adverse" selection. In that the rates everyone pays is the same. Those that have other affordable options go elsewhere those that can't underwrite the losses of the sickly, ever increasing the rates that expand to cover losses as people exit the plan. Ultimately, only the sick and those that can't get it elsewhere are left to suffer and your plan dies. Its not a sustainable metric.
So, in a crazy nutty situation my boss told me to do something, but he didnt want to see it on the balance sheet. We were going to take on a huge expense.. have to pay for it... and yet not on the balance sheet.. ie. not impact liabilities and not impact equity???? What the x? I left the meeting knowing he was a fraud; thankfully, he was gone soon thereafter.
Same here, there is no way to underwrite the losses of the over financed by the low risk borrower in an open finance market... they;ll go elsewhere for competitive rates.
This can't happen -
This lawsuit is on one specific action and is not a blanket get out of jail for free card by the government if its resolved. Its not for all claims of injustice.
So,
Lets say that in this case the account 10 shares opt out.. and then in six months sells all the shares...
Do those "opt" out shares continue to trade as opt out shares as a successor in interest would be precluded from recovery?
Looks squishy... so then... account 9 buys shares equal to what account 10 had...
So are they opt out or opt in successor in interest shares?
seems really dicey..
Is once opted out shares always opted out shares? seems like if this is the case then, the market for shares could dry up since if you sell the shares you loose rights? or ???
if their actions...
Have to be..is beneficial to the [FHFA] and, by extension, the public it serves."
then they also have to be beneficial to the public it serves, since i am the public it serves, their actions must be beneficial to me, and if they are not benefical to me they are by their definition... disallowed.
So,all we need to do is point out that as the public it serves, their actions are not beneficial and therefore are ... void.
...
hey its their definition, i am just applying it.
navy,
its this simple logic that's been pervasive throughout this swindle that has kept me here.
Remember f and f was always cash flow positive from operations and never needed a cram down that it took nor did IT ask for it.
What blows my mind is the greed of government.
Really, greedy sob's where they take from people that invested their hard earned money into entities they believe in. Yes, investing is akin to gambling, and its been done for 100's of years. Gov't does it and so do individual investors.
As an individual investor, knowing what fandf do and how they help the average person own a home which helps the economy spur growth and creates expansion of the tax base, something good for people and governmtent and them taxing things...
But what blows is the greed where by govenment takes it all. Yep all, this windfall of theirs taking 100% instead of being happey with 30-40 percent (ie. thru the tax base) is absurd and unamerican.
sure the libs like to take from the average citizens and give to government (politicians) so they can hand out free stuff to stay "elected"... but really,
As for "this taxpayer" BS they lay out there... its 100% BS becuase the taxpayer has never been at risk thru taxes... just by what is taken from them. ie... as a taxpayer, that i am i am being crushed by the governments greed. It blows my mind how greedy government is.. I'd like to ask them that...
Waiting for an answer... why are you greedy... I mean they do nothing for it... but take take take. Nothing invested (really invested) and take take take. Yes they put $$ into these; but it was forced and never needed or really wanted. yet... greed...
blows my mind ... greed. the gov't takings are a ridiculous.
Let FandF go!
YEAH, These two... w/ Calabria totally blew it... they had 4 years and 2 with calabria to get this done and they screwed up.
How much better everything would have been if they'd just done it.
cancel warrants
use $$ to pay off senior
and return excess takings.
do that...
and they free...
would have been a fabulous boon to everyone... a complete windfall to greedyment.
Why are they giving away money... charitably... if they are under capped? Seems like a waste of responsibility.
So right.
Eliminate the warrants and the sps and they are fine.
Imagine all the tax $$ the state and federal and local gov't gonna get with income taxes, sales taxes, etc. when this occurs.
Govt's will get a windfall of 40-100 Billion and what's worse... the $$ will do so much distributed into private hands that the others will pays taxes too... what a total boon for the taxing people.
all they have to do is set these two free.
Wrong.
Had he wanted to ...
He would have...
Nothing honorable about calbaria..
maybe horrible calabria???
This layton character... he is very much an idiot is he not...
He loses all credibility when he writes...
would never endanger the country’s financial stability again
Since everyone with a thread of a brain knows this to be a gross false premise.
He obviously, has drunk some cool - aid.
Lordy where do they dig these folks up?
Its quite shocking .... in America that thieves can openly steal from the public good all of this "value" without any retribution.
With fair value being north of $150... just 1/3 of it would be enough.
But greedy government ... wants it all. why... because they can.
Yep ... we have a ...
a winner.
Not really retaining earnings....
The JE that then posts a "due to gov't" means ,while they have the cash and the retained earnings... they also create a liability to the government for the amount of the earnings retained... thus...
no reteained earnings on the books.. just more contrived liability to the government.. its a made up thing called "liquidation preference".
its smoke and mirrors and some people aren't following what they are truly doing.
They are hood winking everyone.
So wrong.
LOL..
The simple fact is ...
Government can make things up whenever and for whatever reason they want.
No capital rule is ever final - its just what it is at that point in time becuase wait long enough and the line will shift with the wind.
Government needs to exit these postions. return them to investors and stay the heck out of business.
but , hey, that's only temporary also...
subject to change..
how it saddens me to see how government truly works. or rather doesnt'
just greedy people using the "law" as they make it up to screw people out of ththings they'd earned.
Just like the wild west. Same game, different times and different tools... how to screw others.
The only concern is the "determination" of damages...
they can punt this by saying ...
$1 dollar..
split that.
These folks can still easily screw shareholders.
"trearsury" appropriately compensated.
What about recognizing shareholders appropriately compensated.
These people need to get this right.
force the action.
take a stand and get the companies back to where it would have been without treasuries interference.
come on.
I can't hardly wait to use this line..
i promise its only temporary.. not long term... lol....
14 year old
what we could have done in 14 years.
stocks should double every 7 years (w/ dividends)
So... 60 to 120 to 240....
imagine that.
The plaintiffs may not have owned fannie common.
Jury trials are bad for gov't in damage awards because a small group of people can't be bought. Like the single judge or group of judges can be.
Plus chances are in a jury room at least one of the jurists probably know something about finance and accounting, whereas, lawyers are generally idiots when it comes to finances and judges are often lawyers... so there's that.
Give me an honest jury that can see beyond the smoke and mirrors... and boom...
We win.
6 $25 jr prf to 1 common would be fair.
That gives the jr's a huge win !
yep.
I'll retire in 6-9 years... i'll have plenty of time then to watch the grass grow and gove't get rich off our backs and keep stealing our money.
This would only beget more litigation.
it would be the govern't taking things that aren't rightfully theirs.
....
the absolute best answer is to unwind the conservatorship back to 2008 and make the defendants as whole as possilbe.
maybe pay a few 100' billion in damages.
but more theft...
sure... more theft to correct earlier theft.. grand idea..
no.
only concern i have is that the judgement will be for the plaintiffs as required by the sc... but will award damages of 1c ..
Somehting cosmically stupid, because the judges have no way of fully comepensating the common holders fo rthe theft or the prefs and the number is so large as to be a governmental risk.
so.. instead of doing the right thing,
they'll
punt.
my fear. is the right thing is so costly, to return stolen property that they won't do it.
Looking for some judges to have the B@lls to do the right thing.
Unwind the conservatorship and set the record straight..
They have the power to do this..
Amazing how stupid these judges are ... like this is complicated... and they can't bother to educate themselves on simple financial matters.
come on maan..
This lawyer thompson, bless his heart ... he don't get it. Everyone knows, the warrants are garbage, why is he suggesting the government illegally excersise them.
lordy get on the bus.
Since common's fair value is north of $150... look for $25 prefs to convert to 1/6th a common and $50 pref at 1/3rd. So for every 6 pref they'll get 1 common at that ratio.
....
Pref holders should be very concerned how easy it will be to squash them, since they can be easily converted or redeemed - without any input at all for fair value.
....
The other things prefs should know, even with all their belly aching, if the government and obliterate commons... they'll be in that same boat ... maybe one step up... but still dr owned.
....
Its time the prefs realize... they really could use a few friends.
LOL...
You really believe this.
All they have to do is put a vote to all holders of pref shares to redeem at a certain price. And since only fhfa can vote for pref holders, they'd aggree to redeem at whatever the gse's and fhfa cooked up.
So basically, just agree to amend the contract between themselves. And once done is done. same way they cooked up the SPSA; the third amendment, the warrants, and all the other things they've taken without concern for the "rights or contract rights" of anyone else. J
Just do it. Like the warrants "expire" in 2028... but only if not "extended" which they can mutually agree to, see because the courts have unilaterally agreed to the theft and used stalling and delaying tactics the goverment can do what ever they want...
so...
poof... that redeem at pare is gone. up in smoke... merely a change of terms, no SEC invovlement necessary, as the SEC rules for GSE's have been suspendended. Again, do whatever they want... or dream up to screw investors, ALL investors... not just commons.. So prefs aren't protected from the theft,...
And,
it would be done.
no magic.
no argument.
no discussion.
Just done.
See, fhfa has 100% of the rights of shareholders.
So, 100% of those rights they were granted = 0 for shareholders.
So, don't count on the government being "fair" to prefs and screw commons, they'll screw everbody... equally, or worse, take the prefs to the woodshed for thinking they were better than anyone else.
cause
they are governement and they can.
Which is the exact same reason... using your argument they can redeem your shares for mere pennies on the dollar... or covert 10 shares of pref for 1 share common.
Your argument against commons, cuts just as hard and just as fast against prefs.
Sorry, can't have it both ways.
If the government wants to put screws to prefs they can.
And according to the courts... since the have all the rights... as in all is all...
they can do it. and not 1 thing you can do about it; in fact the position is even worse than being a common holder... in that you thought you had a one up position... but, you don't.
Worse...
your up side is limited... where as your downside is the same as ours... 100%.
Yes, but in this case...
since the government is management at fhfa / gse's and they have 100% of ALL rights in the shares ... all shares... they could
Agree to redeem preferreds at 1/100th of face value just like they've done with commons ( effectively driinvgng the price to sub $1) and just do it and the pref holders would have nothing to say about it, since lamberth already has said they have ALL rights of shareholders, to vote and to represent the shares..
No need for a chapter filing to achieve that goal ... if that's their goal.
...
Lets all hope not.
If so, more litigation and more time.
Remember government has an endless supply of idiot lawyers and paid for judges and all the time in the world. Whereas, we investors, well, we are time limited and other interests to pursue.
Just really a shame government is so corrupt.
Seroiusly,
regarding your assessment about what they can do about jps, jps have 2/3 vote on anything that happens to their shares
lol...
right now the government has 100% of all rights... they can squash this premise with a mere wink of the eye.
Sorry fellow,... if they want to ... they can crater your investment too.
I just expect eventually, they'll do the right thing because they'll be forced to .
....
There simply isn't any reason to dilute commons the way you suggest. In fact it would be so much easier on everyone,including the government if they don't.
you know...
if the government wanted to be
They could redeem the preferred's at whatever price they want because they own 100% of the rights of the shareholders even the ability to agree to be redeemed at any price they wnat.
If the government wants to be callous...
Then they could say... $25 pref for $2.50 and $50 pref for $5 or even less. Say $25 pref for $1 and $50 pref for $2? or $25 pref for 50cents. Whatever price they want... remember they have ALL the rights.
There are no rights of ownership not transferred to the government ... ie... ALL.. ALL is ALL.
Peace
Well... lets just figure you are not right.
Instead start with after tax ordinary income subtract preferred dividends (until repurchased) and divide by outstanding shares. The warrants are trash so put the BS to the side. You get a very healthy EPS. Now multiply that EPS by a stable multiple similar to other financial instituetions (or pre-crazy). Do that and you get preferreds at minimum par value (may be more market value due to the dividend rate) and you get common at $165+.
Do that, after returning the stolen money and you have a well capitalized pair of companies, paying$$$ in taxes, whose shareholders pay lots in taxes (when they sell shares / utilize their value) and all is good.
Now, that is the win.
Do this after settling the lawsuits for damages, yikes, can't steal and not pay for it rightfully.. and things can be normalized.
Government always likes to manipulate markets and they do so with these GSE's they've done it for years, and need to back a way some, by letting the companies run themselves, subject to larger guide posts. Its really not hard to do the right thing.. they just have to do it.
And that's very hard for government... doing the right thing honestly. VERY hard for them. Unless forced. Hope we live long enough to see it.
Ouch...
Hate to bust your bubble...
but most lawyers... are pretty stupid as to business and finance. Most lawyers i've worked with couldn't carry my water or my partners when it came to financial analysis or anything relative to actual business.
Sure, they can manipulate words, make people feel small generally, be bullies... but financial perspective and any knowledge on the same...
a big ZERO...
Might as well talk with bunch of middle-schoolers.
The liq pref is BS - stroke of a pen fixes that mirage.
The warrants are trash; fruit of a poison tree; and otherwise worthless, considering the litigation that will ensue if the thieves try and monetize them, remember the greedyment can't own shares in a public company.
other than than, sure and they own microsoft and tesla too; same way.
The government has no equity in f&f for which it can sell.
The win for government would be to walk back its theft, release the entities, and reap the rewards of billions in taxes on the shareholders sales, and the billions in taxes from sales taxes, and other things that this $$ will reap to the various government entities. State income taxes, Federal income taxes, and many others as the owners of these entities monetize their investment and use the funds for other purposes.
The win for government is the income taxes, which will offset the "tax" losses they created 15 years ago or so when the stole the companies.
grubby thieves, they are!
Thank you.
100% correct.
This liq pref is garbage...
She is a can kicker.
What a waste.
another calabria,
what a disgrace.