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Most of the great, historical, scientific pioneers were religious. The only people who consider Darwin's theory to be heresy are those people who insist on a literal interpretation of Genesis. You know the crowd, downing cheese burgers and condemning homosexuality while sporting those pro-war ribbons on the back of their pick-up trucks.
There was also a time when religious folks believed disease and bad weather were God's wrath. Some zealots still believe that.
Have a great Thanksgiving.
They tried to spin Murtha as a peacenik as well. Murtha has a long, proud career of supporting the US military. Still, one must ask, what the hell is wrong with advocating peace?
Sorta, I'd say you're a bit too humane to be fighting with the barbarians among us. Heck, they still think Saddam did 911. They've been brainwashed by Murdoch's propaganda machine. While most of the country is being automatically deprogramed, folks like hap and blue are gonna take a while longer, maybe quite a while. You're preaching to the hawk's choir.
'Now who was this fellow Darwin?'
A heretic!
-g-
British paper: Bush wanted to bomb Al Jazeera
White House calls allegation 'outlandish,' editors in Britain threatened with jail if they publish leaked memo.
By Tom Regan | csmonitor.com
A leaked memo in Britain has once again caused an uproar. This time, the British government has acted to prevent any further publication.
The Times of London reports that the attorney general of Britain has warned British papers that they will be prosecuted under the Official Secrets Act if they publish details of a conversation between Tony Blair and George Bush in which Mr. Bush is alleged to have suggested bombing Al Jazeera, the Arab satellite TV channel based in Qatar.
Lord Goldsmith, the Attorney-General, informed ... editors including that of The Times that “publication of a document that has been unlawfully disclosed by a Crown servant could be in breach of Section 5 of the Official Secrets Act.”
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1123/dailyUpdate.html
Zoonomia; or,
the laws of organic life
Erasmus Darwin, 1803
http://darwin.baruch.cuny.edu/biography/erasmus_darwin/zoonomia.html
It had me LOL.
Thanks.
The Yoffie quote:
"religious right" leaders believe "unless you attend my church, accept my God and study my sacred text you cannot be a moral person."
"What could be more bigoted than to claim that you have a monopoly on God?"
Which part of the quote do you disagree with?
Actually, given the current geopolitical situation, the world needs more religious leaders like Yoffie. Being "religious" starts with tolerance of others.
Yoffie is advocating inclusiveness and tolerance for different religious beliefs. Yoffie takes issue with the shared, universal, fundalmentalist belief that they each group alone has a monopoly on divine truth. How is Yoffie's position bigotted?
Al Jaafari also called for the US to begin troop withdrawal. They must all be Moore-lovin Bush-haters. Iran wins.
That's too bad. Benzene is highly toxic and a major carcinogen. I think causing more types of cancer than just leukemias as listed in the article. Benzene induced cell mutations could take years to produce cancer symptoms.
What a lame-brained excuse.
"Clinton was right about the Hussein/bin Laden ties"
It doesn't matter what Clinton thought. Clinton didn't take us to war. Bush did as most of the world objected.
Yoffie is a bigot? How so?
"Dont know anyone other than some mohammadens who claim they have a monopoly"
Then you haven't read mlsoft's posts.
To the fundamentalist, divine truth is theirs alone, as is a divine afterlife.
"imposition of beliefs on others or on the political system"
What do you think "christian nation" is all about? What was the so-called Christian Coalition all about, or other similar groups? What does their rapture have in store for you?
Ultra-orthodox, extreme Catholics, evangelicals, fundamentalist Islam, it's all the same. They all claim a monopoly on religious truth. Which is fine. But when they try to impose their religious belief on the whole, it's a problem.
"I'm waiting"
It'll happen, either Moore or Soros. Interesting and encouraging, attacking "patriotism" is no longer working. Now they're down to "just don't call Bush a liar." But Americans and the entire world doubt Bush's truthfulness.
We loved the Taliban during the Soviet/Afghan war, and we loved the Saddam during the Iran/Iraq war and, boy, did we love the Shah before the Iran/Iraq war. We really loved the Shah!! And the list of despots that we've loved goes on and on. Spreading democracy is a crock, as we all know. It's oil.
Speaking of the Shah, recently, I heard some Bush pundit saying how "moderate" the Shah was, and how great Iranian life was under the Shah. Talk about "re-writing history"! Shamelessly.
Murtha showed clear and decisive leadership, a quality so rarely seen on either side of the isle. The initial response of the WH was to smear Murtha by association with Michael Moore. But even those standard, hideous, disingenuous tactics are no longer effective. Fortunately, the American people have turned against the war party and their slanderous, amoral tactics. We need more leaders with the conscience, and strength of character that Murtha so eloquently and boldly displayed.
Thanks for the clarification. Learn something new everyday.
Rabbi Eric Yoffie...
"religious right" leaders believe "unless you attend my church, accept my God and study my sacred text you cannot be a moral person."
"What could be more bigoted than to claim that you have a monopoly on God?"
Yoffie is right! All religious extremists regardless of denomination claim a monopoly on God. When they attempt to impose their beliefs on others or on the political system of the whole, it's a problem for the whole.
Yoffie was right to speak out. More clergy should do the same.
From PC's press release it appears that a delegation of Presbyterian members met with members of Hezbollah (for reasons that defy logic) but they did so without the sanction of the official Presbyterian organization.
Is it simply a reflection of those members, or is it a reflection of the entire denomination? Just trying to size up the situation without knowing much of the history or backround.
The world is full of nuts who believe Hamas and the others are humanitarian organizations, and Osama is a great humanitarian, and a gifted theologian.
The Murtha they spun as supporting Michael Moore. Go figure? The Bushies have no shame and no morality. Needless to say, Santorum is done in 06.
_
Great article on Murtha, the man and the district he represents, and the honorable patriot who gave to his country.
Why Murtha, and what it means
Archive Online eXtra
Author: Denise Winebrenner Edwards
People's Weekly World Newspaper, 11/21/05 20:15
PITTSBURGH — “Big John” Murtha, representative to the U.S. House of Representatives from Pennsylvania’s 12th District, which covers Johnstown and Washington, Pa., is a no-nonsense kind of guy from a gritty no-nonsense district.
In 1999, steelworkers in this district, most of whom are veterans, halted Sen. Rick Santorum’s helicopter from even landing in Johnstown because the state’s junior senator hadn’t done a thing to create jobs and had vigorously tried to destroy unions.
This is a district where people work hard, mining coal and making steel, and say what they think. This is a district that voted for Bush in 2004 because of the abortion and gun issues.
“Big John,” the local moniker, applauded the U.S. invasion of Grenada in1983. When the Reagan administration sought support for the Contras in El Salvador, “Big John” was there to shepherd support through Congress. He supported Gulf War I in 1990.
So when Murtha, the ranking Democrat on the House Defense Appropriations Committee and a retired Marine colonel and highly decorated veteran, took the floor on Nov. 17 to call for the immediate withdrawal from Iraq, it sent shock waves throughout Washington.
According to a spokeswoman in Murtha’s Johnstown office, calls and letters are running 2-1 supporting his call to end the Iraq war and 4-1, nationally. “I’ve worked for John since he was elected 30 years ago, and I’ve never seen anything like this,” said Ruth Vila, a volunteer in the Johnstown office and former steelworker. “He has always spoke for us and he is now. Bring the troops home. Bush lied. No one should die for a lie.”
Local union leaders here say that Bush has to go all the way to Korea to defend the Iraq war because there is only razzberries or no “rah rah” coming from his right-wing political base, even on military bases.
“Murtha speaks for the men and women in uniform,” says George Edwards, member of the retired steelworkers, Steelworkers Organization of Active Retirees (SOAR), executive board. “They can’t speak out. But Murtha, a retired Marine decorated officer, can. This changes the entire national debate. I am optimistic. The Democrats in Congress first shut down the Senate to get an investigation on the use of Iraq intelligence and now, Murtha steps forward to bring the troops home. Things are changing. Bush’s endless war — it’s under debate, finally. Oil corporations’ profits, finally, on the front burner.”
Respect and overbearing are the words used by peace activists who lobbied “Big John” for his positions on Gulf War I and Iran-Contra. Murtha himself, not a member of the staff, meets with peace activists and he makes his arguments. It is plain speaking, full of Cold War rhetoric, but plain words. He thinks what he thinks and does what he does. Murtha is not a representative who wants constituents to feel good, he wants them to think and argue. It is steel and coal, not tea and pandering.
Then there is the connection to the military. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) takes advice from Murtha on military affairs because of his trusted connections to “boots on the ground.” Murtha was awarded the Navy Distinguished Service Metal and a Purple Heart for his service during the Vietnam War. In his biography, Murtha lists his job creation activities and awards for breast cancer research before the military honors. This is not your father’s Oldsmobile.
Murtha’s relationship to military contractors is well known in Western Pennsylvania resulting in some companies locating to the Johnstown area. His brother, Kit Murtha, owner of KSA lobbying, a firm devoted to corporations getting the inside tract to defense contracts, are moderately successful. Carmen Scialabba works for KSA, but worked in Murtha’s office for 27 years. That company received a contract for $20.8 million out of an appropriation of $417 billion (that’s billion with a ‘b’).
Murtha was caught up in the Absam scandal. Abscam was a sting by the FBI where eight members of Congress were invited to the Washington apartment of a phony Arab sheik to receive suitcases of money for favorable oil legislation. On FBI videotape, Murtha is seen rejecting the suitcases of dough for a deal investing Mideast oil profits in Johnstown. Every other member of Congress walks out bent over carrying suitcases. Murtha walks out tall. No suitcases filled with money.
This is tough for Bush — a politician who cannot be bought or intimidated and who has their own real military heroism in perspective. Murtha is the real deal, which has shaken Bush’s real base. No wonder the president is off defending Iraq policy on U.S. military bases in Korea and not Pennsylvania.
Delegation’s meeting with Hezbollah ‘misguided’ and statements ‘reprehensible,’ PC(USA) officials tell Jewish leaders
October 21, 2004
Kirkpatrick, Detterick, Ufford-Chase plead for continued dialogue
by Jerry L. Van Marter
LOUISVILLE — Three top officials of the Presbyterian Church (USA) have written a letter to Jewish leaders with whom they met last month, renouncing a meeting earlier this week in southern Lebanon between a PC(USA) delegation and representatives of Hezbollah.
General Assembly Stated Clerk Clifton Kirkpatrick, General Assembly Council Executive Director John Detterick and General Assembly Moderator Rick Ufford-Chase said the meeting between members of the church’s Advisory Committee on Social Witness Policy (ACSWP) and Hezbollah representatives during a two-week fact-finding mission to the Middle East was “misguided at best” and denounced statements made by delegation members after the meeting as “reprehensible.”
http://www.pcusa.org/pcnews/2004/04477.htm
I think this is the official PC - USA site.
Presbyterian Church (USA) and Jewish Relations
The General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), meeting on June 26-July 2 in Richmond, VA, voted to “initiate a process of phased, selective divestment in multinational corporations operating in Israel,” and to reject a proposal to suspend national-level funding for any further “messianic” church developments until this form of evangelization can be evaluated in light of the Presbyterian understanding of Christian-Jewish relations.
http://www.bc.edu/research/cjl/meta-elements/texts/cjrelations/topics/presbyterian-jewish_rel.htm
Many links on the issue.
Student Convicted of Plotting With Al Qaeda to Kill Bush
By DAVID STOUT
Published: November 22, 2005
WASHINGTON, Nov. 22 - An Arab-American student from Virginia was convicted today of plotting with Al Qaeda operatives to assassinate President Bush and hijack airplanes, concluding a terrorism trial that the government has called one of the most important since the Sept. 11 attacks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/22/national/nationalspecial3/22cnd-plot.html?hp&ex=1132722000&...
Iran is the real benefactor of our Iraq disaster.
Iran/Iraq: Bilateral Ties Improving Despite U.S. Worries
By Golnaz Esfandiari
Iraqi President Jalal Talabani is on a three-day visit to Tehran. He is the first Iraqi president to visit Iran in nearly four decades. Talabani has held talks with the Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. He is also due to meet with Foreign minister Manuchehr Motaki. Iraqi-Iranian ties are improving despite Washington accusations that Tehran is meddling in Iraq’s internal affairs.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/2005/11/iraq-051122-rferl03.htm
____
Hey, now at least no one will say Iraq doesn't get along with it's neighbors.
Cheney Seeks Sixth Deferment
Veep Hopes to Secure Place in History
By: Andy Borowitz
Published: November 22, 2005 at 07:48
Vice President Dick Cheney announced plans today to seek an historic sixth draft deferment, realizing a longstanding personal dream of his.
Clutching his deferment application in his hand as he addressed reporters at the White House, a beaming Mr. Cheney said, "I am so close to getting this sixth deferment I can taste it."
Washington insiders were surprised that the vice president chose this moment to seek a sixth deferment, with the debate over the war in Iraq at full throttle and Mr. Cheney's lack of military service increasingly a target of his critics.
Furthermore, even without a deferment, Mr. Cheney would be unlikely to pass the routine physical necessary to serve in the military, since simple tasks like stepping out of a limousine or shaking hands with dignitaries leave him easily winded.
But according to vice presidential scholar Davis Logsdon of the University of Minnesota, the vice president may be trying to secure his place in history by obtaining his latest deferment.
"FDR will go down in history as the only president elected to four terms," Mr. Logsdon said. "Dick Cheney wants to be known as the only vice president with six deferments."
At his White House press conference, the vice president snapped at a reporter who questioned why he was seeking a draft deferment at all when there was no draft at the present time.
"Better safe than sorry," the vice president said.
Elsewhere, in order to keep details of her wedding from leaking to the press, pop star Christina Aguilera made all of her guests sign a confidentiality agreement and disinvited Lewis "Scooter" Libby.
Andy Borowitz writes a daily humor column at www.borowitzreport.com and is the author of a new book, The Borowitz Report: The Big Book of Shockers.
Daddy Bush wrote a book defending his decision not to take out Saddam through ground warfare. Unfortunately, young George is not much of a reader.
With global cooperation. Terrorism is a global problem. Militants are in every country. Through their own arrogance and questionable foreign policy, the regime has grossly increased anti-American sentiment around the globe. This does nothing to advance the "war on terror," and serves no ones interests. They have created a terrorist hub and breeding ground in Iraq which has grossly destablilized the region. Iraq has been hugely counterproductive in the war on terror, and it has done much to turn the world against us. There is no way we can fight a war on terror without global cooperation. The strain on the military, and their reduced ability to defend the homeland (thier job) is for another post.
On war, Cheney sees 'corrupt' revisionism
November 22, 2005
By Elisabeth Bumiller
The New York Times
WASHINGTON -- Vice President Dick Cheney stepped up the White House attacks on critics of the Iraq war Monday, declaring that senators who say Americans were sent into battle based on a lie are engaging in "revisionism of the most corrupt and shameless variety."
In remarks delivered at the American Enterprise Institute, Cheney said he considered debate over the war healthy, and he echoed President Bush's recent praise of Rep. John Murtha, the Pennsylvania Democrat who has called for an early withdrawal of American troops from Iraq, as "a good man, a Marine, a patriot."
But the vice president made clear that after a week of criticism of Bush on Capitol Hill, the White House would not relent in its campaign against critics of the war and of the faulty intelligence that led up to it. Cheney decided last week, as the war debate was intensifying, to make his speech for maximum impact on an otherwise quiet Monday, the first day that Congress was out of town on recess and while Bush was traveling back to Washington from a trip to Asia.
"The flaws in the intelligence are plain enough in hindsight, but any suggestion that prewar information was distorted, hyped or fabricated by the leader of the nation is utterly false," Cheney said. "Sen. John McCain put it best: 'It is a lie to say that the president lied to the American people.' "
Cheney was referring to the Arizona Republican and former prisoner of war in North Vietnam. McCain has had an off-again, on-again relationship with the White House but has supported the war and called for additional troops in Iraq.
Cheney said an early withdrawal from Iraq would be a "terrible blow" to the security of the United States and painted a bleak picture of terrorists' ambitions in Iraq.
"The terrorists believe that by controlling an entire country," he said, "they will be able to target and overthrow other governments in the region, and to establish a radical Islamic empire that encompasses a region from Spain, across North Africa, through the Middle East and South Asia, all the way to Indonesia. They have made clear, as well, their ultimate ambitions: to arm themselves with weapons of mass destruction, to destroy Israel, to intimidate all Western countries and to cause mass death in the United States."
Cheney repeated a formulation from a speech he made last week, calling the suggestion by some senators that the administration manipulated prewar intelligence "dishonest and reprehensible." He said that members of Congress had had access to the administration's prewar intelligence and that "they concluded, as the president and I had concluded, that Saddam Hussein was a threat."
The recent debate over Iraq also has shown that few Democrats support Murtha's call for a withdrawal. For instance, even as Murtha stated his case again Monday, declaring on CNN that the war "cannot be won militarily," Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., said in Rye Brook, N.Y., that it would be "a big mistake" to pull troops out of Iraq.
In one of many Democratic reactions to Cheney's speech, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., repeated the allegation that the Bush administration had "misused intelligence in its rush to war" and said Cheney had missed an opportunity with his speech to "come clean with the American people."
Sen. John Kerry, the Massachusetts Democrat who ran against Bush for president in 2004, told reporters at his office in Boston that Cheney was "still misleading America" about the war.
The Los Angeles Times and The Associated Press contributed to this story.
"Rep John Murtha to Michael Moore"
And you know that was well crafted spin put out to see if it sticks. For the Bushies it's become kind of like tossing crap at a fan. The same crap doesn't work anymore. As for Cheney on Iraq, J.Kerry said it perfectly, "no one has less credibility on Iraq that Dick Cheney."
"bring 'em on"?
We can't defeat them in Iraq. We've got all the big bombs, but in a ground fight? We're not winning. What message does that send to the world, that a bunch of street thrug terrorists can defeat the US army in ground warfare? It certainly does not increase national security.
edit: "Cut and run, stay the course," they're still using the same, tired old sound-bites. They need new spin writers now that Rove is otherwise occupied.
What amazes me is that the Murdoch media is still parading out regime surrogates who make some connection between 911 and Iraq. This morning in one of their "fair and balanced" debates a Bushie talking head responded to war criticism by saying "it is obvious that some have forgotten 911. That is what we're fighting in Iraq." Not verbatim, but very close. Another delegitimized war criticism by saying it was all political, about the 2006 election.
They're scared.
"would be akin to "confessing a murder." To a society accustomed to searching for truth in the pages of the Bible"
You have to wonder if Bush feels the same level of conscience having taken the country to war on false pretense, into a war that has caused the death of tens of thousands of people. That would be an enormous burden for any human to bare. Yet I doubt Bush/Cheney have any difficulty sleeping at night.
You should be more specific when you use the word "Christian."
Because the majority, or near majority, of the world's population defines themselves as Christian, it is logical that the scientific world is likewise a majority Christian population.
There is wide variance in Christian belief, and not all Christians are literalists. In fact, Christian literalism is largely a US southern phenomenon, and hardly a representation of Christianity as a whole.
As well, I hardly need you to explain "Christianity" or Christian belief to me, but when you attempt to explain such to others, you should be more specific in your explanation, such as "US evangelical Christians believe" this or that because you don't speak for all of Christianity, nor do your specific beliefs define Christianity.
As far as the articles are concerned, it is evangelicals, your wing of Christianity, who are trying to pass off Biblical theology, a literal interpretation, as "science" with your proposed teaching of intelligent design in the classroom.
Regardless of your opinion of the Theory of Evolution, theology is not science and science, ie. carbon dating, wholely discredits your belief that creation is is only 6 thousand, or 12 thousand years old or however old you guys are dating the world these days.
Be Cautious About Making Evolution The Enemy Of God
'Intelligent design' may be interesting as theology, but as science it is a fraud.
By CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER
Published on 11/21/2005
Because every few years this country, in its infinite tolerance, insists on hearing yet another appeal of the Scopes monkey trial, I feel obliged to point out what would otherwise be superfluous — that the two greatest scientists in the history of our species were Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein, and they were both religious.
Newton's religiosity was traditional. He was a staunch believer in Christianity and member of the Church of England. Einstein's was a more diffuse belief in a deity who set the rules for everything that occurs in the universe.
Neither saw science as an enemy of religion. On the contrary. “He believed he was doing God's work,'' wrote James Gleick in his recent biography of Newton. Einstein saw his entire vocation — understanding the workings of the universe — as an attempt to understand the mind of God.
http://www.theday.com/eng/web/news/re.aspx?re=A51BD49C-8328-4166-A143-1325DD17D091
Depending on the outcome of the 2006 election, Bush may not have another 3 years in office. Public outrage is building. There is dissention among higher ranking military officials. The political environment now favors truth. If D's take control in 2006, the Bush presidency will not survive another 2 years.
Charles Darwin: Evolution of a Scientist
He had planned to enter the ministry, but his discoveries on a fateful voyage 170 years ago shook his faith and changed our conception of the origins of life.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10118787/site/newsweek/
Darwin knew full well what he was up to; as early as 1844, he famously wrote to a friend that to publish his thoughts on evolution would be akin to "confessing a murder." To a society accustomed to searching for truth in the pages of the Bible, Darwin introduced the notion of evolution: that the lineages of living things change, diverge and go extinct over time, rather than appear suddenly in immutable form, as Genesis would have it.
MURTHA IS RIGHT
THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY "LEADERSHIP" IS WRONG
By: Justin Raimondo
"The war in Iraq is not going as advertised. It is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion. The American public is way ahead of us. The United States and coalition troops have done all they can in Iraq, but it is time for a change in direction. Our military is suffering. The future of our country is at risk. We can not continue on the present course. It is evident that continued military action in Iraq is not in the best interest of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or the Persian Gulf Region."
- Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.)
If anyone other than John Murtha had called for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, it wouldn't have been that big a deal. Murtha not only supported the war, he has been one of the biggest supporters of the Pentagon in Congress, praised by none other than Paul Wolfowitz for his "wonderful" support for the astronomical sums sucked up by the War Party in their never-ending quest for our tax dollars. It was Murtha who led the congressional Democrats in supporting Gulf War I, and, in his 2004 book, characterized a withdrawal from Iraq as potentially "disastrous" for our credibility in the Middle East and the world. (So much for efforts by the pro-war wing of the blogosphere to label him a peacenik because of his relatively mild procedural criticism of the Bush policy.) Rep. Murtha, like the rest of the country, has been on a pretty steep learning curve when it comes to Iraq in recent months. Furthermore, Murtha, as Andrea Mitchell pointed out the other day on Chris Matthews' Hardball, enjoys the confidence of top military commanders and Pentagon insiders and would not be speaking out if he didn't have their advance knowledge and implicit support – backing he acknowledged in his appearance on Meet the Press Sunday morning.
That's what this controversy is all about: the reemergence of opposition to the war from within the top echelons of the uniformed military, as well as the intelligence community and the Democratic Party. It was the generals, you'll remember, who opposed this war and pointed out our unpreparedness from the very beginning, starting with but not limited to Gen. Eric Shinseki, who was fired for saying we would need 200,000 troops for the occupation. Now that their predictions have come true, in spades, and our armed forces are being chewed up on the battlefields of Iraq, the uniformed wing of the Peace Party is returning for a second engagement, and they're bringing out the big guns.
http://www.etherzone.com/2005/raim112105.shtml
Earlier, White House spokesman Scott McClellan had said Murtha was "endorsing the policy positions" of antiwar filmmaker Michael Moore and proposing a "surrender to terrorists." And the vice president had ripped into Murtha and other Democrats who questioned the prewar intelligence that lured us into the Iraqi quagmire:
"The president and I cannot prevent certain politicians from losing their memory, or their backbone – but we're not going to sit by and let them rewrite history."
It isn't just the congressional Democrats who believe we were lied into war: the majority of Americans now realize the nature and scope of the deception. They know full well it is Cheney who is rewriting history – his own, as Murtha pointed out:
"I like guys who got five deferments and have never been there and send people to war, and then don't like to hear suggestions about what ought to be done."
Ouch!
Cheney Picks a Fight With a Marine John Nichols
Fri Nov 18, 1:04 PM ET
The Nation -- When Dick Cheney, a Wyoming congressman who had never served in the military and who had failed during his political career to gain much respect from those who wore the uniform he had worked so hard to avoid putting on during the Vietnam War, was selected in 1989 by former President George Herbert Walker Bush to serve as Secretary of Defense, he had a credibility problem. Lacking in the experience and the connections required to effectively take charge of the Pentagon in turbulent times, he turned to a House colleague, Pennsylvania Democrat John Murtha, a decorated combat veteran whose hawkish stances on military matters had made him a favorite of the armed services. "I'm going to need a lot of help," Cheney told Murtha. "I don't know a blankety-blank thing about defense."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20051118/cm_thenation/138198;_ylt=A86.I25.Hn5DsIIBiRv9wxIF;_ylu=X3...
In the 2004 vice presidential debate, Cheney noted that, "One of my strongest allies in Congress when I was Secretary of Defense was Jack Murtha, a Democrat who is chairman of the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee." The vice president was particularly complimentary over the years of the Pennsylvania representatives decision to provide high-profile backing of the administration's 2002 request for authorization to use force against Iraq.
But the cross-party relationship has soured as Murtha, whose concern has always been first and foremost for the men and women who serve in the military, has reached the conclusion that the Iraq intervention has steered U.S. troops into a quagmire from which they must be extracted. Typically blunt, Murtha said this week: "The U.S. cannot accomplish anything further in Iraq militarily. It is time to bring (the troops) home."
Cheney's response to the man he begged to help him understand military affairs during the first Bush administration was to rip into Murtha and other Democrats who had tried to work with the administration. "Some of the most irresponsible comments have, of course, come from politicians who actually voted in favor of authorising force against Saddam Hussein," the vice president growled in a speech to the conservative Frontiers of Freedom Institute. In another clear reference to Murtha, Cheney said, "The president and I cannot prevent certain politicians from losing their memory, or their backbone -- but we're not going to sit by and let them rewrite history."
Of course, it is not Murtha but Cheney who is rewriting history -- or, at least, attempting to obscure it.
No one ever said Cheney wasn't a principled man! -g-
They haul Cheney out as "Big (authoritative) Daddy." I don't know who they think their fooling anymore.