is retired now but still kicking like a horse!
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Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Marc, just for a reference here are the Results of the Trades in VORTEX Run 1 that gives me a PV-value of $ 16941 just as you got for Standard AIM:
Step--------PV-------PV Growth Relative to Staring Capital
0 ----- $10.000,00 ---------0
1 ----- $9.000,00 ---- -1000,00
2 ----- $6.989,30 ---- -3010,70
3 ----- $5.771,41 ---- -4228,59
4 ----- $7.403,95 ---- -2596,05
5 ----- $12.301,58 ---- 2301,58
6------ $15.566,67 ---- 5566,67
7 ----- $14.969,54 ---- 4969,54
8 ----- $13.768,90 ---- 3768,90
9 ----- $13.041,67 ---- 3041,67
10 ---- $14.016,50 ---- 4016,50
11 ---- $16.941,00 ---- 6941,00
Rendement ROI = 69,4 %
Time Averaged Investment SUM Ci*Ti/Time = TAI = $ 5755 (Capital at Risk)
Rendement on TAI = 121 %
In this case the 3x negative Cash positions reflect Borrowed money. These negative amounts have been calculated into the ROTAI Formula as investments(Capital at Risk).
It does not mean much as only Step 0 and Step 11 are identical. It does show however that the trading follows a different Path. Possibly one can extract some information from each position relative to Standard AIM that is different, if one takes the time to analyse it.
Marc,
On you Test Case "Lichello Series: I am assuming you start with something like this:
Total Cash + Equity = 10000
Cash = 5000
Equity = 5000
Holding Zone Buy & Sell = 10%
Minimum Trade = ??????
No interest on Reserve
No trading costs
Reserve is let go negative ??????(1)
One Year Run Time
-January 01- 01-2011: Price= $ 10
-December 31-12-2011: Price= $ 8
Run Time in Days = 365
*********************************************
(1) For my First Run I used The TurboVest Model so as rgar Negative Cash was to be allowed and I simulated the Standard AIM Portfolio Value just For Fun for the PV = $ 16941 like you got for the Standard AIM Run. In order to do this I tweaked the Buy & Sell Aggression Factor to be exactly equal at 0,26571, as I have no other way of setting the variable parameters in VORTEX ANM. So 1st Run is my initial Reference Point ehich is identical to your Reference Point.
In order to compare VORTEX AIM with what you have done with your adaptation I must know your operational details for matching:
* Did you use a Minimum Trade Size? If yes, what is it?
* Do you allow Reserve to go negative? . . .Yes or No? I had 3x a negative Reserve @ $ 759. I do not understand this for now as the price jumped from 4 to 5 to 8 and that is more than 10% so I have to check this out yet
If you used no negative cash then I can use the No Buy Condition if there is not enough Reserve to Buy
In order to compare your Run that ended up at $ 21781 I must know the following:
1. The Size of your First Buy at $8
2 The Size of your Forts Sell at $ ?????
For matching my Starting Condition to your Run.
This I need to know if we sell at the same price. . .If we do I can match it for the Selling. If that happens then we have an identical starting condition and we can compare the result.
If you get a First Sell at a different price then it is not possible to get an honest match. All I can do then is to approximate use your First Sell information so that my First Sell has an identical impact on the PV-change. at that same date. Such a Sell is a fudged one for me.
It would not be a 100% fair comparison but that can not be helped. . . you can not always have an identical start if the Buy-Sell Function is Different.
I will wait for your response.
Regards,
Hi Marc,
I have an appointment in 1/2 an hour. . I will get back to it later.
One point to make is that with a somewhat different Buy - Sell Formula there is no way to compare exactly for how to start my parameters other than to set
1 Set Holding Zone the same as you do. What did you set it a?
2 The Min Trade amount the same. What was yours>
3 Then I can scale the aggression factors so that my First Buy and the First Sell are identical as yours.
Other that that there are no comparative settings.
50/50 Cash/Equity
Regards
Marc,
If you eliminate "The Lichello Flaw" in the Regular Lichello AIM then how did you modify the Buy Function? Did you keep the SAFE settings the same?
How did you integrate this into the standard AIM Buy Function?
Regular AIM Buy = (PV-V) -s*V<--------------s is the Safe Fraction
If now you use (1/(1-f))*(PV-V)-s*V, <------For f= 0
it is the Regular AIM Buy Function. So, for any value of f>0 you will get a larger Buy . ..BUT then the Regular AIM will still give you a Residual Buy because of the “ –s*V” factor .
I do not understand how the Buy Formula was changed in your tests.
It stands to reason that for a fund that cycles on a horizontal line the results are higher, but have you tried it on a series of real stock prices that are NOT selected to have a particular trend?
What did you actually Test?
Hi Marc123
Just an update in the registration procedure. This is now much simpler!
In the Vortex Window Demo there is a Registration Form under the Help Menu that you can fill in and submit.
You then get an e-mail with the Registration Number after payment is received. That number you enter on the Registration Window and then the registration is complete!!!!!!!
Something to forge some discussions to evolve during Flat-Line Market Behaviour
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=77102060
I do not agree with your assessment TF:
By the time you realize the market is more volatile, you are out of money to buy more because you were too aggressive too soon.
To start off with when I developed Vortex AIM as a derivative of Lichello's AIM I have always promoted a few important guidelines for Dynamic Trading. . .AIM is not unique using that principle. . .most professional savvy investors do exactly what AIM-type investors do except they do it with more skill than the average AIMer: They are always ahead of The Herd and they thrive on that, taking the money from the Late Ones, which later become the Scared Ones that dump their equity a basement prices. . .I bet the Old AIM Guy will put his hand in the fire next to mineJ
Some principal guidelines for Vortex AIMing I have discussed repeatedly here and on the AIM Users Board and emphasised in my book The Vortex Method are:
1 Do not invest money you can not afford to lose unless you are comfortable with accepting the risk of doing so;
2 Never give a machine the primary responsibility of your investment philosophy. . .Remain in charge and carry out your trades that you decide are the right ones even if your Auxiliary Investment Manager, like for example AIM, or a hired hand, gives a different Trade Advice. With that in mind one could have done very well in 2002 and in 2007, for with good investment management and some skills for it one can do well in any market, although of course, not everyone can do well in the stock market, even in a great year. . .it is a zero Sum Game. . .and if one realies that the professionals are generally better investors than the Averge Joe then he is already ahead of the Herd;
3 If one is emotional in regards to investing in then he should get out if the market as soon as he discovers he is emotional about it! Especially if he ventured into the Stock Market without knowing anything about it. . . better for him to invest his money in a savings account. . .Vortex AIMing is not for him;
4 In regards to your question as to what would make me adjust the settings. .. that would appear obvious if one is a watchful investor: When you see the trading range of your equity become narrow then it is time. . . in case one uses Vortex AIMing. . .
4.1 to a) Reduce the Trading Thresholds(holding zones) and b) Increase the Trade Aggression Factors accordingly if they are not already rather high. This will shift the trading to smaller price differences but the trade sizes will shift back to the Min. Trade amounts or higher, so that the trading frequency remains about the same---> creaming off the dynamic profits each mini-cycle;
4.2 In Vortex AIMing one can see what the Trade Advice is at any time, even if the threshold for executing a trade has not been reached yet([red script[/red]). As soon as the price goes through the threshold the Trade Advice become executable([blue]]blue script[/bleu]) the investor has the choice to execute the trade immediately or to decide to let it ride. . .he uses his judgement for that. . .not emotion! For this methodology he also must use his judgement notto use the GTC-method at times he has no time to look at the market, but if he is rather active with investing he will make time for keeping an eye on it and then he can trade on his judgement and skill, using the Vortex Trade Advisor as baseline Manager if things roll along fine. Dynamic Trading requires at least a minimal active involvement in regards to what the equity is doing most every few days. For someone that is satisfied to sit back and look at the prices only one per month Vortex AIMing can be used too effectively but then the Default Settings are advised to be as they are. . .It works then almost identically to AIM B the Book. Additionally, the various Vortex Adjustments can easily be set so that the investment becomes a Buy * Hold Portfolio. . .for any investor there is a perfect set of Operation Parameters;
5. In regards to the SPY Demo I have generally used an aggressive management with suitable trading thresholds, starting out with thresholds based on the previous optimisation of the settings for the rather volatile SPY history, something like Buy=15% and Sell=20%(of the top of my head) but after several months of near "flat lining" I reduced them but still a bit above the noted volatility 7%. . .(The trade aggression was already high at the optimised values: Buy= 0.8 & Sell=0.6, to foster Share Growth). . .so I left that untouched. Then later on still getting too few trades I shifted to these values: Buy = 5%, Sell = 7%. On June 26 a few days says ago I decided that the trading activity was still too low and shifted to Buy= 3% & Sell =4% and that will stand until a change is in order.
6 Considering the above the SPY Demo has generated only 7 trades total !!!! but the significant result is a Share Base growth of 44% from 44 shares to 64 shares in 1,5 years.
I started out with 20000 and after 1,5 years the Reserve and 7 trades the Reserve stand at $ 13081. . .I consider that in spite of using rather high aggression factors my management has been on the conservative side at least. Using this approach and if the equity is rather safe one that can not go bust I would advise to use the Vortex Turbo Method(TurboVest). . .That work even better for investors that know what they are doing, as it would allow, after having started with a healthy Reserve, to make moderate use of equity credit, providing extra financial “space” and use a Negative Reserve. Vortex Turbo might be exactly what some people need.
In conclusion, if any one cares to call what I did is emotional management then I would advise not to risk any money in the Stock Market
Indeed Adam,
The market has been basically moving sideways, which may explain sparsity of posts.
That is what I noticed specifically with the SPY Index.
The SPY Price Chart curve looks like the Elevation Chart of the Saskatchewan prairies
I thought I might build a fire on the AIM Board to get new discussions going . . .I think people have gone away at the end of May and are on holidays!
My previous ACER Aspire T180 computer gave up too and I bought another one:
IBM ThinkCenter Including a Windows XP Professional Licence:
8114-CTO P4-3400/1GB/160GB/DVD/DVD-RW/LAN/XPP, S/N/LMYCXC0
With two external Hard Discs included I now have 2,55 TB Memory space. . .Rediclous! I am using about 10% of it
The "New" computer cost me € 54 ex Sales Tax. . .Yeah. . . that is € 54.00 . . .Lol!
On my previous Post on the SPY Demo Run performance:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=77085787
I have forgotten to give the number of shares in the Portfolio:
@
03-01-2011 … Ns = 44
26-06-2012…. Ns = 64
Although the net value of the SPY Fund has increased in 1,5 years. . .inclusive a net gain on (Interest Earning - Trading Costs) . . . only by 7,6%, the number of shares has increased significantly by 45% !!!! . . .simply by way of mildly aggressive Vortex AIM Trading.
This is a powerful demonstration that using the general methods of AIM Trading, and in particular Vortex AIM Trading, investing in a relatively low-volatility fund like SPY is now. . .(the last 1,5 years have been rather "quiet" for it). . .one can achieve a rather strong Portfolio Share Base Growth!
This is simply achieved by setting the Trade Aggression Factors for low volatility equities between 0.5 and 1. In the Demo these factors have been retained @ 0.8 for buying and 0.6 for selling from the beginning.
From this it can be seen that the buying is 1/3rd more aggressive than the selling.
This is done on purpose to foster share quantity growth automatically. . .I call this the Retirement Kitty Building Plan. One could of course choose it the opposite way after retirement and then I would call it the Retirement Income Plan. . .when the equity price drops the remaining cash is momentarily used effectively to create more retirement income later, but in the main the portfolio equity value is steadily wound down because of more aggressive selling than buying. . .to provide retirement income!
On my previous Post on the SPY Demo Run performance:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=77085787
I have forgotten to give the number of shares in the Portfolio:
@
03-01-2011 … Ns = 44
26-06-2012…. Ns = 64
Although the net value of the SPY Fund has increased in 1,5 years. . .inclusive a net gain on (Interest Earning - Trading Costs) . . . only by 7,6%, the number of shares has increased significantly by 45% !!!! . . .simply by way of mildly aggressive Vortex AIM Trading.
This is a powerful demonstration that using the general methods of AIM Trading, and in particular Vortex AIM Trading, investing in a relatively low-volatility fund like SPY is now. . .(the last 1,5 years have been rather "quiet" for it). . .one can achieve a rather strong Portfolio Share Base Growth!
This is simply achieved by setting the Trade Aggression Factors for low volatility equities between 0.5 and 1. In the Demo these factors have been retained @ 0.8 for buying and 0.6 for selling from the beginning.
From this it can be seen that the buying is 1/3rd more aggressive than the selling.
This is done on purpose to foster share quantity growth automatically. . .I call this the Retirement Kitty Building Plan. One could of course choose it the opposite way after retirement and then I would call it the Retirement Income Plan. . .when the equity price drops the remaining cash is momentarily used effectively to create more retirement income later, but in the main the portfolio equity value is steadily wound down because of more aggressive selling than buying. . .to provide retirement income!
SPY 2011-2012 Performance - Dry Run on actual share prices
Vortex AIM Results from 03-01-2011 to 27-06-2012
The price of Spy has decrease +9% in April +4% now relative to the starting date.
Currently I run SPY on both the Vortex Windows and Vortex Excel with identical settings to do comparative testing. These test confirm an identical trading response during up/down trading. The interest accumulation is from a practical consideration negligibly different
Current Portfolio Fixed & Variables settings are:
Starting Conditions 03-01-2011
Original investment =$ 20000
Stock= $ 5600
Cash= $ 14400
CER % = 70/30
Starting price =$ 127.05
Qty Shares = 44
Interest on cash = 2%/yr (Compounded each time a date entry is added)
Trading costs $ 10,95/trade
Buying Aggression Factor = 0.8
Selling Aggression Factor = 0.6
Cash Limiting Factor = 60% (If Buy Amount > Reserve: Buy=0,6* Reserve
June 27, 2012 Status
-Holding Zone Sell = 4% Changes from 7%
-Holding Zone Buy = 3% (Changed from 5% on June 26 2012)
-Portfolio ROTAI Gain = 14.8 %
-Time Average invested capital = $ 6446
-Share price change = 3,9%
-Portfolio ROI Simple = 4,76 %
-Number of trades in 2011 = 2 Incl. initial Buy
-Number of trades in 2012 = 5
-Trading Cost= $ 110 total
-Interest earned = $ 405
-Portfolio Value = $ 21408
-Stock Value = $ 8419
-Reserve = $ 12989
-CER % = 61/39
-Portfolio Profit = $ 1408
Vortex Windows does not use the time averaged (ROTAI) Yield Equation like the Excel version does. The modification to use the ROTAI as a standard is being considered.
Hi Everyone,
I have made some neat changes to my bi-lingual Vortex AIM:
Live Dollar en Euro Exchange Rate that is updated every minute and the up-down movement is shown in the Indicator Window.
Great for FOREX Minute Man Trading
Just have a peek:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=77018952
PS
To see that live you need to have the 30-day Demo and connect up to the provider that gives live price information.
Cio.
Thank you for inquiring Marc123!
1a) The Full Book is in Dutch. It contains the usual "run-up" for the "meat chopping" of the essentials and some "side issues", to make it read as "My Story" on the Vortex Method. The Price = € 25 See payment method below.
1b) Chapter 6 of the Book contains the technical guts of the method The price is € 20. It explains completely how the Trading Function is developed and its subtle difference from Regular AIM. I have made an English version of Chapter 6 The Vortex Method Short Version. It is focussed on the mathematical development to eliminate the Residual Buy "Flaw" of Regular AIM. This result in the logical feature that if a Buy or a Sell is executed the Advise Generator gives no Trade Execution Advice. . .It simply gives an Provisional Trade Advise that lies under the Holding Zone. You can see on that how close the trading advice is to the Execution Trade Advice. This means that if you are close to it that you can safely decide to execute the trade. . .a few Dollars under the Trade Advice makes no difference in practice at all and sometimes if you don't make the trade you miss a good trade. It allows you to use your own judgement!
My Motto 1 is: Never invest money you can not afford to lose!
My Motto 2 is: Never let a Machine prevent you from making Money!
You are The Manager.
2 Payments are to be made via a Bank Transfer or via my PayPal Account. If you send Cash I of course accept it but the risk is yours. Mail Theft was invented when Mail was invented !!!!!! If you do send cash preferably send Ruro Bills. . .If you send Dollars the is fine but you must ad enough to cover for the Exchange Rate on bills, plus The bank Commission. . .about 15% total I think it is. Make sure you wrap the Bills in opaque paper or even aluminium foil. My address is on the Vortex Windows Program Information Page, but I could send you that per e-mail if you can not find it.
Payments for all documents are to be made in advance. The Vortex Document Prices for any Order: Go to my Order Page on http://www.vortexcw.nl/vortex/index.html
The prices are listed and payment instructions are provided. Sorry, not yet a Credit Card facility.
For the Book description go to Book: Vortex Method.
You can order it on the Order Form too.
For the PayPal account paynment, if not automatically connected, use my E-mail address and my company name Vortex Engineering, Nieuwegein, The Netherlands.
If you buy multiple documents we will “slap hands” and arrange a discount
For a detailed description on the Vortex Program and Power Point Examples see:
http://www.ckweb.nl/vortex_us/index.php
After having seen the fully functional 30-day Free Vortex Windows Demo you receive a Coded File with your Registration details in your name by e-mail. This you simply paste in the Vortex File in “Program Files” or in an other File where you installed Vortex.
Some interesting new features are recently added to facilitate Live FOREX "Minute Trading Advisor". . . . Vortex Style. There is a Dynamic Dollar and Euro Exchange Rate Up-Down Indicator and the rates are updated per minute and shown on the Main Vortex Interactive Window!
Regards,
Ok Clive, I have looked at your remarks on leveraged funds:
1. The leverage is on the price change. . .Got it!
2. Let assume a 2x Leveraged Fund F2 starts up. . at that point it has the same price, say 100. . .Price changes have not yet happend. At the end of day 1 we have this with a 20 % rise on F:
F= 120
LF= 140
Day2
F= 144
LF= 168
If the price drop the right amount on day 3(-12.5%) the prices are identical again. . .this to get the "hang" of what happens
F= 126
FL= 126
If the price keeps dropping FL approaches 0 more rapidly that F.
I get the logic on investing X2 in F and X in LF as one needs more Reserve as prices drop and as prices rise the payout is larger from the selling.
3 As I understand it a LF is a derivative of F. What happens at some profit position at which Fund F pays a dividend of $ 1 per share. What happens then for Fund LF? Does this also pay out a dividend at some leverage and if Yes, how is that calculated?
4 "You invest $500 in 18 month treasury's, $500 in a 2x fund
The funds borrows $500 (at 18 month treasury yield) and invests $1000 in the 1x."
I do not get this. If I pay the Broker $ 500 to buy the LF then from what party does the broker borrow the other $ 500 to invest $ 1000 in F. What is the gain? If the broker wins $200 he has to pay that to me if the price rises and I sell: I have then $ 700 and he has a debt of $500(commissions not counted). If the price drops and his value goes to $ 800 I also lose $ 200 having left $ 300. The broker pays $ 300 to me and the $ 500 back to the lender + interest. The broker only collect the commission on the Trades - his borrowing cost. Is this the only thing the broker gains from it????
Am I missing something?
That's a lot of information Clive. Tanks!
I will have to chew on that much fat a little before it will sink in. . . I will chew on it on Sunday!
Thanks Clive for this Introductory Course on Leveraged Funds.
Until now I have structurally avoided delving into the discussions that were focusing on that. . . Other than having studied 1) margin investing in which a broker provides extra money the investor does not have (never done it-using the 10 ft pole principle), 2) leverage provided by Forex Brokers(only played with it), 3) the leverage that applies when using my own Vortex TurboVest Method(works great and have made money with it), and 4) put and call options and even writing them(getting the money up front-have done all these too) and I spend enough time to get to understand their "mechanics". Leveraged Funds as discussed on this Forum have managed to make themselves appear uninteresting. . .the unfamiliar verbiage used in the discussions usually hung over the underplaying mechanics as an opaque cloud . . .usually the discussions focused on market conditions. . . bulls and bears. . . and what not other investment mumbo-jumbo on top of that. . .I did not got interested to bother with it. . . I had enough on my head to "fiddle" with the "nuts and bolts" of Vortex Excel and Vortex Windows.
In response to your post and charts I thought maybe I should Google a bit on the subject, so I would not feel like an idiot reading your post. The first thing I encountered was a load of verbiage that seemed to avoid the issue. . .it was like they were selling a "sizzle" and I was not sure if there was a "steak" on the grill or a piece of "baloney", but after a few minutes I started to catch on a bit, after I blew away the opaque cloud covering up the mechanics of the method I was looking for: All the talk about how the leverage was achieved were non-issues to me. . . it appeared to be as simple as this: I have two funds A and B that have both $ 10 as the midpoint between the trading range limits at a certain starting point:
A1 goes like this: 10,12,14,16,20,18,17,13,11,10,12,15 17 . . .etc.
B1 goes like this: 10,14,18,22,30,26,24,16,12,10,14,20 24 . . .etc.
Here the leverage =2x on the price change.
This fits the definition if no other example is provided.
Another interpretation is to have a leverage of 2 on the "price" itself:
A2 goes like this: 10,12,14,16,20,18,17,13,11,10,12,15,8 . . .etc.
B2 goes like this: 20,24,28,32,40,36,34,26,22,20,24,30,16 . . .etc.
This is a different cattle of fish. Which one is the correct interpretation? It seems obvious that for B2 a lot more Cash Reserve is needed relative to A2.
Is this interpretation correct?
The SPY Fund is not doing much lately!
It is May but I am not going away
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=74839863
SPY 2011-2012 Performance - Dry Run on actual share prices
Vortex AIM Results from 03-01-2011 to 20-04-2012
The price of Spy has increased ~9% since the start.
Currenly I run SPY on both the Vortex Windows and Vortex Excel with identical settings to do comparative tesing
Current Portfolio Fixed & Variables settings are:
Starting Conditions 03-01-2011
Original investment =$ 20000
Stock= $ 5600
Cash= $ 14400
CER % = 70/30
Starting price =$ 127.05
Qty Shares = 44
Interest on cash = 2%/yr (Compounded each time a trade is executed)
Trading costs $ 10,95/trade
Buying Aggression Factor = 0.8
Selling Aggression Factor = 0.6
Cash Limiting Factor = 60% (If Buy Amount > Reserve: Buy=0,6* Reserve
April 20, 2012 Status
-Holding zone Sell = 7%
-Holding Zone Buy = 5% (Changed from 7% on April 10 2012)
-Portfolio ROTAI Gain = 17.9 %
-Time Average invested capital = $ 6396
-Share price change = 8.580%
-Portfolio ROI Simple = 6,30 %
-Number of trades in 2011 = 5 Incl. initial Buy
-Number of trades in 2012 = 2
-Trading Cost= $ 77 total
-Interest earned = $ 355
-Portfolio Value = $ 21631
-Stock Value = $ 6957
-Reserve = $ 14672
-CER % = 68/32
-Portfolio Profit = $ 1631
-Vortex AIM Trading Gain = $ 11631-355 = $ 1276 (without Interest on Reserve but including the trading costs that would apply).
Vortex Windows & Vortex Excel give identical trading results. In regards to interest accumulation Vortex Windows gives a $ 3 higher interest total for the full period @ 2% annual interest rate as input parameter. This is due to a slightly higher annual interest base rate to calculate the actual amount of interest earned each time a new date is registered.
Vortex Windows appears not to use the time averaged (ROTAI) Yield Equation at this time, although ROTAI was used as a basic yield representation indication in the development of Vortex Windows as it is the equivalence of the Internal Rate of Return which gives a much more realistic investment yield figure for time variable investments.
Per April 21-2012 we have removed some minor errors that were encountered.
Hi 1step,
Interesting information! I presume you mean also a Windows program, but I am not sure. The question / remark I have is this one:
If you mean an Excel Formula Plan that Lost Cowboy can offer then there is no need for me to do anything. . .except market this parallel to LC’s efforts to give the worksheets away for free. My vortex Windows adaptation / add-on could easily be modified as a stand alone. . the work would be focused on the rather extensive Help File that would need to be modified completely.
On the basis of using my Vortex Aggression Factor Model I could use build an Excel version of Premivest as well, but as the Excel version for this type of investing is already available for free I am not sure how I would "fit-in" in this market. The models that I have worked on in the past are no longer on file(various computer crashes since years ago).
I will ponder this question a bit more though. Thanks for your encouragement.
Regards,
Hi 1 Step,
I should perhaps explain that I have not really promoted a Formula Plan for small monthly additions and starting a Portfolio as say $ 100 in the standard program can om principle be done. Look again at the previous example:
******************
Trade =(PC-V)* 1/(1-f). . . .f is the AF and can be any number other than 1.
M=1/(1-f) is the Trade Advice Multiplier
Assume now that we operate this with an initial investment of $ 100:
PC=V=50
PV=100
AF= 0,8
Price change = +10%
V2=55
Trade Ref = (50-55)/(1-0,8) = -5/0,2= -25. . .which means a Sell
a=-0,25 and b= 1,25 ------>$ 25 equity would be sold and $ 125 would be added to the Reserve
V2 = 75 and R2 =125.
If the Trade Advice would be a Buy of $ 25 instead then the investor would buy $ 25 equity and add $ 75 to the Reserve.
In this case the PC and the V values would change as equity is added, so the Equity/Cash Ratio would change as the portfolio grows. One would need to use a Value Corrector so that the trades will be referred back to the constant investment of $ 100 and to the price change only.
Another way of doing that is first to select the correct trading aggression factors that give the proper split for the Starting Portfolio Value. . .could be any Start Portfolio. . . . and then the trading aggression can be turned down as the portfolio grows so that the monthly trading is appropriate for the $ 100 investment.
***************************************
In effect I can also easily use the Fixed investment of $100 and calculate the Equity/Cash on th basis of the equity value changes. I did not realize that this sort of investing would be of enough interest so that people would pay for it.
Anyway, my marketing efforts for the Vortex Program are rather amateurish and I have not come to that point of setting up a slick marketing effort like Automatic Investor of Mark Hing. In order to do that I have to let a professional set it up for me and that is going to cost me a bundle of money I do not have. . . The same would be required for a program that is geared to the potential customers you have in mind. . .admittedly once the Base Marketing Program has been developed one could easily also address the PremiVest Option in that marketing effort.
The real problem is that I am an Engineer with a focus on the “nuts and the bolts” and tinkering and the marketing is a subject that boggles my mind and requires a professional approach that I miss. I always focus on how something works rather than wat a person would need and want.
Do you really think that a Vortex AIMing Premivest Module would be of as much interest as you appear to suggest?
Regards,
Hi 1step,
Years ago I was discussing with Lost Cowboy the details of his Formula Plans or Lay Away Plans that he developed for investing a small amount of money every month on the basis of say $ 100. I am not sure of the exact details anymore. I recall this from memory as follows:
100=x=ax +bx
ax= added Equity
bx= added Reserve
Obviously a+b=1
As equity prices go up or down the values a a and b would vary. Depending on the price changes of the equity Lost Cowboy had various formulas to calculate a and b and just as for AIM, if I remember correctly, a could be negative if it was a good time to sell equity.
I used this idea to see how that could be implemented in Vortex AIM and of course that was the case. I called this version PremiVest along the tradition that various investment plans were coined as XyzVest by different people.
I tried several constructions in Vortex Excel and these were based on my Aggression Factors(AF) that were already programmed in Vortex. I will attempt to reconstruct the idea for this from memory. The Vortex Advice Generator is
Trade =(PC-V)* 1/(1-f). . . .f is the AF and can be any number other than 1.
M=1/(1-f) is the Trade Advice Multiplier
Asume now that we operate this with an initial investment of $ 100:
PC=V=50
PV=100
AF= 0,8
Price change = +10%
V2=55
Trade Ref = (50-55)/(1-0,8) = -5/0,2= -25. . .which means a Sell
A simple Formula would be. . . .maybe a good name for this is SimpleVest
a=-0,25 and b= 1,25 ------>$ 25 equity would be sold and $ 125 would be added to the Reserve
V2 = 75 and R2 =125.
If however the investor is interested in still adding a small amount of money even after a price has risen then one could decide to buy $ 25 equity and to add $ 75 to the Reserve.
These are just 2 examples to illustrate that the investor first has to decide generally how he wants to respond to a price change and then a means can be constructed easily to split up the $ 100 accordingly. For example one can look at the Trading Range of en equity and at the top of the trading range decide a=0 and at the bottom b=0 and calculate a linear function based on where the price is between the trading limits: a=0 at the upper limit and b=0 at the bottom limit. This a [Ladder Formula] applied to a fixed amount X that can be invested each period.
Other formulas can easily be set up by anyone.
The special aspect of the Vortex AIMing is that I advocate that an investor can apply PremiVest with any amount X per flexible period whenever X amount of money is available to him. . .X is the Premi.
The amount X can be invested an any time without any qualification other than the availability of the money. The Holding Zone and the Minimum Trade are decided just like in Regular Vortex AIM that is done
The PremiVest Module in Vortex has not been finalized in regard to which formula for a and b is to be used. There has been too little interest in this investment option and we have decided not to develop Premivest to finalization, unless one specifically asks for it. In that case we would customize the formula for a modest fee.
SPY 2011-2012 Performance - Simulation
Vortex AIM Results for SPY since 03-01-2011 @ 05-03-2012
The price of Spy has increased 7% since the start.
Action normally on Monday Closing Prices.
Current Portfolio Fixed & Variables settings are:
Starting Conditions 02-01-2011
Original investment =$ 20000
Stock= $ 5600
Cash= $ 14400
CER % = 70/30
Starting price =$ 127,05
Qty Shares = 44
Interest on cash = 2%
Trading costs $ 10,95/trade
Buying Aggression Factor = 0.8
Selling Aggression Factor = 0.6
Cash Limiting Factor = 60% (If Buy Amount > Reserve: Buy=0,6* Reserve
March 9 2012 Status
-Holding zone Sell = 7%
-Holding Zone Buy = 7%
-Portfolio ROTAI Gain = 19,56 %
-Time Average invested capital = $ 6475
-Share price change = 6,80%
-Portfolio ROI Simple = 6,33 %
-Number of trades in 2011 = 5 Incl. initial Buy
-Number of trades in 2012 = 2
-Trading Cost= $ 77 total
-Interest earned = $ 318
-Portfolio Value = $ 21481
-Stock Value = $ 6843
-Reserve = $ 14389
-CER % = 68/32
-Portfolio Profit = $ 1481
-Vortex AIM Trading Gain = $ 1481-318 = $ 1163 (without Interest on Reserve)
Kast, I think you might be mixing up a few things:
. . . Also, what % are you using for minimum transaction? I know Lichello experimented with 5% and 10% before settling on 10%. Obviously 5% will trigger more transactions, but I'm wondering if the 10% recommendation still holds true...?
The AIM Trade Advisor will in the first instance trigger a trade if the price change of an equity exceeds the Holding Zone (HZ). This can be 1% or 5% or 10% or 20 % or more, and this level depends on a lot of things. For example, for currency trading I tend to advise 1%. . .For highly volatile equities it is the Trading Range that will determine the HZ.
The Minimum Transaction(Trade Size). . .(MT) comes into play only after the HZ has been passed and 1) is a function of the trading cost and 2) is a percentage of the Equity Value. . .If you have a large equity position and a reasonable HZ then any trade advice is likely to exceed a practical MT. . .then a 0% MT does not increase the number of trades. . .The HZ will determine the number of trades!
If however you have very small equity position, say $ 1000 and use a 10% HZ a Trade Advice could be in the range of $ 80 to $120 or so( depending on SAFE-value used) . A trade order like that could cost $ 10 or even more. . .that is far too high for a trade. . . .you would want to look at trading costs of 1% or less of the trade value . . in this case in the range of $ 1. . and the $80 trade would be 8 % of the Equity value. . .a reasonable MT percentage. If your equity position is $ 40000 the trade value would be in the range of $ 3200 and for this amount the trading cost are maybe $10 or 0,3 % and the trade of $ 3200 is also 8 % of the equity value. But you might easily trade at $ 1000 and that is 2,5 equity value. So a MT of even 2% mat be OK in this case.
This means: As you lower the HZ the trade advices may approach a reasonable minimum amount below which you pay too much for the transaction. If you then set the MT too low you are increasing the number Trade Orders and if you do not know what the trades are costing you could be trading yourself into loss with an equity that is potentially a Profit Maker. Do not hold onto arbitrary rigid MT figures that you do not understand. . .ask yourself: “How much does a typical AIM Trade going to cost me? If the answer is “Too Much” then raise the MT till you are happy with the trading cost.
Look at it this way: If a typical +/- AIM trading cycle gives you a trading yield of $ 20 and the In-Out trading cost = $ 25 then it is obvious that the MT is far to low and should be adjusted upwards so that your profit per +/- cycle is at least enough to be “happy about”.
Hallo Kast,
1. Starting with $ 10000 I would advise a Mutual Fund that has good reputation and a relatively high volatility. This way you avoid the risk of a single equity diving deep. For beginners that is an unnerving experience and even with two equities this can happen on both at the same time. You should select two equities that have a general "inverse” relationship(negative correlation) so that as one dives the other goes up and you can liquidate some of the profits to buy the dropping equity. This keeps the Reserve in stand longer. The First Rule is however is: Never invest more money that you are not prepared to lose..
The trading cost on mutual funds are much lower than for single equities, so the minimum trades can be much smaller. . . .trading more often gives you experience( you have you nose on the market more frequently).
Also, invest only in business that you have an affinity with. . .something you would “get into” if you had a million $ to spend! Investing should be fun. This makes the investment "fit" your personality and it will make you more tuned into the market because of it. Read plenty of articles on investing and market signals! Also be prepared to Bail Out in time if you do not have the confidence that a diving equity will recover. For this you need to study the fundamentals.
2. With $ 20000, that I could afford to lose, I would set up an AIM Mutual Fund Portfolio with say 4 different mutual funds of your liking in it. Then "AIM" the individual equities to reap the volatility profits, just like you would with "inverse" equities.. . .again choose equities with negative correlations if you can find them.
I advise you to select yourself which equity to start with. It will "force" you to investigate it's fundamentals, at least the most obvious ones that are important for AIMing such as high volatility and a prospect to last a long time. . .if you let others decide then you are not "on your toes" and not "on the ball". If you make your own selctions and do well you can praise yourself. . .if you lose then you can not blame others.
Keep reading!
Hi LC
I think you are trying to decipher my highlowdemo spreadsheet
Which one of these are you referring to?
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Parent Directory 26-Feb-2002 15:52 -
dca_gainloss.xls 13-Feb-2002 19:13 63k
formula_plan_improvm..> 13-Feb-2002 19:29 2k
growth_dca.xls 13-Feb-2002 19:29 17k
synchrovest.txt 13-Feb-2002 21:38 9k
synchrovest.xls 13-Feb-2002 19:13 83k
synchrovestmessages.txt 13-Feb-2002 19:13 11k
trading.gif 25-Jun-2002 00:29 33k
twinvest.xls 13-Feb-2002 19:20 72k
twinvestnew.xls 03-Jun-2002 11:59 407k
va_readjustment.xls 13-Feb-2002 19:29 18k
vca_gainloss.xls 13-Feb-2002 19:29 94k
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I am not specifically trying to decipher anything. I remember that with a monthly investment you had various "formula's" to calculate the SPLIT between stashing the Reserve and equity buying. . .This split is obvious is based on a fraction such 20/80 or 40/60 etc.
To me this looked like a Black Box: In goes 100 and out comes x/y based on some stock price behavior (Market Signals).
This fraction looks to me hat it can be related to the function
Buy=(PC-V)*M = X* (Monthly Investment)
and
Cash to Reserve= (100-X)* (Monthly Investment). . . .Y=(100-X).
This is sort of the basis of my idea for the Vortex PremiVest Function I had "conjured up" years ago.
I can of course create various function for M that will do just that. May be some of your split-function that are based on this Williams R% (Williams Ratio Generator=WRG) will be a better idea than an Arbitrary Vortex Ratio Generator(AVRG).
Regards,
Performance Update:
Vortex Aiming for SPY (Dry Run) 03-01-2011 ----> 09-02-2012:
Simple ROI Annual = 6,54 %
ROTAI Annual = 20,32
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=71960887
More Information on:
http://www.ckweb.nl/vortex_us/index.php
On this link two Power Point Presentation (English & Dutch) Downloads are presented that illustrate in detail how Vortex AIM works. They are free of charge and may be distributed without any restriction.
SPY 2011-2012 Performance - Simulation
Vortex AIM Results for SPY since 03-01-2011 @ 09-02-2012
The price of Spy has risen 6,54% since the start.
Action normally on Monday Closing Prices.
Current Portfolio Fixed & Variables settings are:
Starting Conditions 02-01-2011
Original investment =$ 20000
Stock= $ 5600
Cash= $ 14400
CER % = 70/30
Starting price =$ 127,05
Qty Shares = 44
Interest on cash = 2%
Trading costs $ 10,95/trade
Buying Aggression Factor = 0.8
Selling Aggression Factor = 0.6
Cash Limiting Factor = 60% (If Buy Amount > Reserve: Buy=0,6* Reserve
February 9 2011 Status
-Holding zone Sell = 7%
-Holding Zone Buy = 7%
-Portfolio ROTAI Gain = 20,32 %
-Time Average invested capital = $ 6483
-Share price chjange = 6,54%
-Portfolio ROI Simple = 6,59 %
-Number of trades in 2011 = 5 Incl. initial Buy
-Number of trades in 2012 = 1
-Trading Cost= $ 66 total
-Interest earned = $ 288
-Portfolio Value = $ 21450
-Stock Value = $ 8246
-Reserve = $ 13204
-CER % = 62/38
-Portfolio Profit = $ 1450
-Vortex AIM Trading Gain = $ 1450-288 = $ 1162 (without Interest on Reserve)
Hi Sam, I just happen to run into this post again and noted your remark that you could not download the Vortex program.
Various changes have been introduced by now although we had other report that downloading was a problem. That problem has been worked on and we now have Version 1.26-2 on the download link.
http://www.ckweb.nl/vortex_us/index.php
The start-up problems have been resolved as far as we can tell. . . it has to do with particular settings of the client's compter.
The trading of Inverse Fund remains and interesting issue. I was interested in trading Eur.Dol and Dol.Eur but ran into the fact that:
1. When I bought Dollars I paid in Euro from an Euro account
2. When I bought Euros I paid with Dollars from a Dollar Account
At the time I tested this combination I noticed I was running but the distance to the destination I was running to was became greater with each step I took towards it. . .it reminded me of a Science Fiction book I read once. . .Delta D = (a*Vr – b*Vb)*t with b*Vb > a*Vr*t.
This is like running on a conveyor belt that runs backwards.
Any gains that were accrued on the one currency were wipeout on the other currency by way of trading costs.
When trading inverse funds within a currency system this problem does not occur. Afer I understood what was happening I no longer pursued this angle.
Regards,
The trade size is increased going forward also. Not just the first trade.
Yes, I understand that, IF you continue to carry the virtual shares along into the future.
At some point in the Forum Discussion I read that one user stated that he only used Virtual Equity for the First Buy and that afterwards he continued with Standard AIM because(dropping the virtual equity) as the CER would then be adjusted to more like it should be.
Thanks,
Lay-Away Plans,
Hi LC, the recent communications on Vortex failure start-up in the US has led me think back on our discussion years ago on the Lay-Away Plans(LAP) that you are promoting for investors wit a small income. At the time I dived into these plans but since then have not done and "streamlining" of my understanding of them.
As I remember the essential idea was to decide on say a fixed monthly investment of say $ 100 or $ 120 per month, and just like as is done in regular AIM, top split this up into an Equity Part(EP) and a Reserve Part(RP) according to some Split Formula. The details of these split functions have escaped my memory. I understand there were a number of different LAPs you promoted.
The essential feature of these LAPS were, if I remember it correctly, that each monthly payment had a Micro AIM Investment structure. The Equity and the Cash followed a Cash Equity Ratio(CER) based on the prevailing market conditions. I try to recapture how it worked: Suppose an investor would have wanted to invest $ 20000 with 60% equity and 40% Reserve but does now have the savings to do so but can lay-away $ 120 per month from a fixed income structure and a small amount of savings, say $ 1000. He could start with 120 per month but he could also start with his savings and begin with a 1000 total investment. Let's assume for now that the basic trade function is similar as in AIM so that the Trade Functions based on share prices in some functional relationship:
Staring Point . . . (in case $1000 would be available)
Total Investment = 1000
E= 600
R= 400
Thereafter the monthly Lay-Away = LA = 120 would apply as a Micro AIM Investment.
PC= 72. . . .If one would use a 120 investment per month
E= 0,6*120 = 72
R= 0,4*120) = 48
Portfolio Statement after 1 month(assume no price change has occurred):
Equity = 600 + 72 = 672
Reserve = 400 48 = 448
Portfolio Value = 1120
Trade Functions for the monthly Lay-Away:
Buy = (PC - V)*Mb. . .Your Special Buy Function to calulate Mb(1)
Sell= (V - PC)*Ms. . .Your Special Sell Function to calulate Ms(1)
Essentially the $ 120 monthly investment is treated as a Micro AIM and each month the $ 120 Lay-Away is split up according to variable CER that is determined by price development.
Note(1)= I understand that for each LAP there is a unique Trade Function, but a buy or sell would essentially be a function in the form of
Y= ax + b . . . . .(b may be negative or positive)
OR if desirable
Y=ax^2 + b
for a more progressive trade function with price schanges "x", if that would be considered desirable.
With V the equity value after one month. . . let's say that V= 60 after a price drop and that Mb=5.
The Price Change = 12/72*100 = 16,7 %
Buy = (72 - 60)*5 = 60
The 120 monthly investment is split up as follows:
Equity in new Shares = 60
Reserve = 60
Number of Shares = 60/Price
The original investment of 600+72 after the 16,7 % price change, is now worth 560
New Portfolio Statement after 2 month
Equity = 560 + 60 = 620
Reserve = 400 + 48 + 60 = 508
Portfolio Value = 1128
**************************************
The interesting feature is here that using for each LAP a different Trade Function one gets a unique Set of Trade Functions:
Buy = (PC - V)*Mb = Yb=Fb(x). . . .x = the Equity Value Change
Sell= (V - PC)*Ms = Ys=Fs(x)
For each LAP
The interesting feature of this is that the Trade Function for each LAP has an Identical Form as the VORTEX AIM Trade Function for the linear case. The functions for the values of Mb and Ms can of course also be make non-linear if that would be desirable.
The point being here is that for the LAP applications one can easily use the Windows version of the Vortx AIMing Method, and with a small modification of the standard VORTEX Trade Function it can be tailor-made for your LAP versions instead of an Excel Spreadsheet.
Trade(buy) = (PC - V)*Mb . . .Mb & Ms to be defined per LAP
Trade(sell) = (PC - V)*Ms. . . . A negative number
The Vortex AIM program could be used for all your LAP applications.
Should this be still of interest to you we could discuss modifying the Standard Vortex AIM program to Vortex LAP versions. . .more or less in the line of our previous plan years ago, which I called at that time PremiVest.
PremiVest is still an Option for the Vortex AIM program, but it is not fully developed yet for release as the specif is LAP trading functions have not been developed. I have developed it for a typcal Vortex AIMing way. If enough interest develops we will consider making this option available for specific LAP investments.
Regards,
Conrad
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.aspx?board_id=1341
Live Euro and Dollar Exchange Rate update every 1 minuteon the Vortex User-Interface!
The Vortex AIM program Version 1.26a has been provided with an automatic 1-minute Refreshing feature for the Euro and the Dollar values. These Exchange Rates eur.dol and dol.eur are precise inverts of each other if you download both from the same source.
You can also download the Euro value = eur./dol from an American source and the Dollar value = dol.eur from an European source. In that case they may not be exact inverse values.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=71435586
Regards,
Vortex AIM Version 1.26a available for Downloading(Free)
I have modified the VORTEX AIM program as follows:
1. Downloading stock prices from user-defined sources are separated into Euro and Dollar sequences and the downloading is started automatically, or manually, in series from sources user-defined sources;
2. The portfolio Values are immediately updated after each downloading;
3. You can download new prices any time you want;
4. The Exchange Rate for the Dollar and Euro are downloaded automatically every 1 minute.
This gives the investor a Live dollar or euro exchange rate on the Vortex User Interface. This is very convenient if you trade currencies. For the currency trading the Dollar or Euro values are specifically identified as "live rates".
The Vortex AIM program can be tried out free of charge for 30 days without any restrictions.
Regards.
Downloading from:
http://www.ckweb.nl/vortex_us/index.php
Thanks TooFuzzy,
for your additional reply on the Private Mail.
With the added details I fully understand what you have explained in regards to AIMing with virtual capital.
It simply comes down to a method of inflating the real investment in the Buy Function so as to create a larger First Buy when you start out with a smaller investment than you normally would have wanted to do.
In Vortex AIM I would do that simply by starting out with small initial investment and increase the Buy Aggression Factor and would readjust it to the normal aggression level when the CER has become approximately as I had wanted it in the first place.
Over and Out!
Hi LC,
Because there is buying and selling I think you have to do some type of IRR calculation to get a annualized return, just not sure of how to go about it.
Interesting that I saw your latest discussions on this.
As you may have noticed from my past remarks to Latstarter on my ROTAI Yield Percentage I might add to my earlier post that the ROTAI is identical to the IRR you refer to, although I have developed it on my own as I did not understand IRR at the time I needed it.
I use it in my Windows Vortex AIM and I have also to implemented it in my Excel spreads.
If you are interested I can explain how it works. It is similar to the ROCAR that Tom Veale has invented but not identical. . .over time the ROCAR and the ROTAI diverge. . .ROTAI being actually more accurate for the long term investments.
My spread sheets are no longer provided free of charge but I could explain to you how it works for setting up in Excel in a private message.
Regards,
Conrad
PS:
You also can use the IRR from the Excel Function Library. . .it requires some experimentation to get “the hang” of it though but that is also the case with my ROTAI.
Regards
Hi Late Starter,
Can someone tell me how to figure annualized rate of return on monthly investments like those in synchrovest.
Example: $100 a month invested for 20 years.
Total investment: $24000
Total value after 20 years: $54000
Gain: 125%
The annualized Simple Return On Investment=AROI can be calculated for any Period. Normally after that period, the next period begins with the Gain of the previous year added to the capital. . .then after 20 years it is Compounded ROI. The way you are asking it however looks to me that you want the 20 year period without annual compounding. This is:
SROI = {54000 -24000)/(24000/2)*100/20 = 12,5 % Annualized SROI
IF the 24000 investment would include de interest you have earned then the 12,5 % AROI would in fact be a Compounded Average AROI. . .=CAROI. So it all depends how you define Gain and Investment.
*The direct Gain = 30000
*On the Average your invested capital is 12000. . . .This is the amount you would have invested in 10 years, so the average investment over the 20 years is 12000(approximately as this is the simplest formula).
* In 10 years you gain would be 15000 on the average.
Of course, it is possible to be use a more refined compounded average annual ROI, if the payments per month are not always 100, and if the interest varies from year to year (which it always does).
In your example however you have constant monthly payment plan, so the formula I gave you is really the Time Averaged ROI. . . I call that ROTAI= Return On Time Averaged Investment.
In my Vortex AIM I use the ROTAI as a standard Yield Percentage for he Investment, and it is calculated at any time you open the program and works with any payment structure with variable amounts and variable periods. It even calculates-in the expenses you have made for the Investment . . .an Expense in an Investment.
If you have more question on Compounded Interest calculations just ask me. I can be found on:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.aspx?board_id=1341
Regards,
Conrad
Toofuzzy. . .your persistence as almost as great as mine
I admire that and may learn in the end what you want to tell me!
This will be my last post on the subject of LD -AIM
Are you sure?
PC = $10,000
Starting stock value = $10,000 (but you only buy $5,000 so you have $5,000 in pretend shares).
Ok, I understood that already. This means
PC=Real(5000) + Virtual(5000). . .As I Interpreted it before.
SAFE works better at 5%
Well, it is really of no importance what you think is best. . .It is important to state what you are using in a numerical example that you should work out to exaplain it!
Min ORDER SIZE works better at 10%
It is not important what works best. . It is important what is used in an example!
AIM as normal starting with PC = $10,000 and Stock value = $10,000.
[color=red]But the stock value is NOT 10000 it is 5000! You should define the Buy Function then as Vv= Real(5000) + Virtual(5000) and After a price drop
Buy = (PC-Vv)- s*Vv. . .(My interpretation!)
You have NOT yet explained HOW the SAFE s should be applied!( Assume a 20 % drop in price and s=0.1). . .
Now I can think of the following conclusions (since you have NOT yet explained at all WHAT exactly I must do):
1)Buy = (10000 -[5000+4000])- 0.1*(5000+4000)
2)Buy = (10000 -[4000+4000])- 0.1*(4000+4000)
3)Buy = (10000 -4000) - 0.1*(4000)
Do you realize that IF you do not explain exactly what is supposed to be done then I have these 3 Options to use for the buying of the new equity, after a price drop?
You still have not provided the complete instruction for HOW it is to be done. . . .If you do not know exactly HOW then perhaps you might ask someone that knows exactly how it is supposed to be done.[/color]
For some reason the above text will not go red!!!
Again this is my last post on the subject
I am curious as to your reply.
Regards,
Hi Fuzzy:
I don't think so
Ok, but you are not sure !
So, what I did might be correct!
Maybe someone that knows for sure could help?
Regards,
Hi Too Fuzzy. . .you have been . . .ehh. . .too fuzzy
I have on three occasions exactly done what you wrote to me. . .you should know by now that verbal communication in such matter can be . . .and usually are. . . imprecise(a picture being worth 1000 words). In my firsts example you did not understand what I did, so you did not point out what was wrong. The two more times you said that what I did was wrong bit you did not give clear and precise examples as to what you meant. . at one point you even said that you yourself were not sure about using 8000 instead of 4000 in the value of the equity. . .fopr the Buy Function.
So, it is not a matter of understanding something as utterly simple as this AIM-variant but a matter of interpreting . . .ehhhh. . . .fuzzy instructions. . .I can’t help
You could simply have provided a step-by-step numerical example with precise explanations what you did .. . . Alternatively, I could have asked for a numerical step-by-step example. However, you started out by offering explanations so I thought to let you explain it. . .expecting that your explanation would be clear. I now get the impression that you did not, perhaps, understood the Virtual Share Concept as well as you might have.
The cookie crumbled
OOPS. . . .
Previous Message # 35218 was incomplete and should be removed
Conrad
Thanks LC,
**************************************
Hi Conrad, wish I was a big enough computer nerd to help with the debugging, but I am not. I would say start with the forums and library on the MSDN site http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/default
Surely if your programer puts up a post with all the info about the computer he is programing on, he can get help there for free.
Wishing you luck with this problem.
Clifford
**************************************
I will pass on the information to Chris. He has already tried a lot of options.
Interesting to note is that we got a message from a Canadian user that he can now start up Vortex after Chris send him the last of his suggestions. We are not sure if the computers in Canada are any different from in the US. . .we assumed before that the computers in Canada and the US were the same.
Regards,
PS: As a test for US application it would be interested if you downloaded the Vortex Program. . .just to see if you can get it to start up. If yes then this would mean a lot. . .it would mean that this latest problem limited to certain computers and not related to land adjustments:
http://www.ckweb.nl/vortex_us/index.php
If it works then you can remove Vortex right away/CW
Still Entangled or not ????
>>>>You started with stock Value = 5000. PC = 10000 and THEN when you set up the AIM you use an inflated PC= 10000 but also inflate the stock value itself with 5000 so that the stock value is the Virtual Value of 10000=5000+5000<<<<<
Yup That is correct
PC = 10,000 and the STARTING stock value you use in the formula is $10,000 but you have only really bought $5,000.
Now, this is exactly what I did the second time around! Then you told me that I was NOT supposed to add the Virtual Value of 5000 to the Stock Value, so that was the point at which I formulated the Buy Function this way with the 20% drop in share price:
PC=10000
V-5000
s=0,05
Buy=(PC-V)- s*V and after the 20% drop this becomes
Buy=(10000-4000) -200 = 6000 -200 = 5400
This is exactly as I did before, except that I used 20% price drop instead of 10%, but you said that was wrong
The question now is if this is finally the correct way to use the Virtual Share Concept?
That is where the pretend virtual shares come in.
Toofuzzy
I keep my fingers crossed