I agree with you on that.

It is very weird but only recently has anyone really gotten back to me and it seems like Windstream must be talking up a storm about this restructure and move forward etc.

Now that is probably mostly wishful thinking and as I have posted news has been both good and bad but I pass along anything i get here.

Right now ironically the best way for anyone to get any money out of a no bid stock is a reverse split. so instead of 100% loss maybe you get out with 20-30% loss as it will trade again.

I know that sounds crazy and mainly eliminates the chance to make any money but does provide the bid/ask needed.

One last life for this cat maybe, probably short lived but who knows..

For some reason lots of people are getting back to me lately after months of hearing nothing. I just pass along tidbits I get. I know none of this really matters and probably does not represent anything really good but just to keep the conversation going

I just received this

" I have been on the Myers Fletcher's and Gordon site as recently as last week Friday. Production is as expected I was told."

This is from GMC Energy in Jamaica.

40 million dollar project in Argentina? (translated)
dated 2/29/16

"St. Nicholas will have the first urban park fed with renewable energy sources in the country.
The advance of the city planning requires not only in terms of infrastructure, but also of sustainable development and sustainable.
This means to predict that they will have the wear in the time the resources with which it is now caters the market, and in the plane of the generation of energy this index is being trend at the global level.
This is a park that combines generation hybrid solar and wind energy by means of helical wind turbines vertical axis and photovoltaic panels.
Is developed in Argentina by surland technologies and features teams of Windstream Technologies Inc., American technology of first quality.
The project is powered by the electric regional forum in the province of Buenos Aires (Freba) that next to the municipality of San Nicolas chose the neighborhood procreate I for the development of these works.
The investment exceeds $ 40.000.000."

gmc energy reports that windstream is "going through a restructuring and already has deep pockets lined up" .

Of course that can be babbleshhhhit from Bates but who knows.

On the plus side we have the reverse split! LOL

Always an awful thing but when a stock has no bid at .0001 but goes to .01 then at least you can sell it at .0009 or lower ;) (as opposed to not being able to sell at all)

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I think something happens (who knows if it will be good or not) but here is my thinking.

Bates could have thrown in the towel many times already. Why bother continuing on? He funded this with toxics, diluted his own stock, showed up at a meeting in North Vernon to wave the bankruptcy card and buy time (and did) and stated he is working with a restructuring attorney.

While the price might never actually go up, I think this lives on in some fashion a while longer

I just received a message from India, will cut and paste below. This is from someone working with the products from the Indian operation. They reached out to me on Facebook. Does not seem good to me..



seen your comment on Variate fb page.
We have lots of inquiries but the pricing is too high compared with solar more than 30-40%
And secondly the product power generation is way below the expectations..
We have set up 3 demo units, all are way below the solar generation for similar ratings.
It's very difficult for someone to buy a product which have too high cost and even the generation is also way below
We are taking up the matter with Indian team, but it seems they are aware of the problem but not willing to accept.
Our 22k $ are held up in inventory.. we are trying our level best.

Well this was the result Bates wanted. We all knew there were no assets that North Vernon can take and that debts exceeded assets. He painted a bleak picture and got exactly what he went to the meeting for. Now it is up to him and this restructure team to figure something out.

Not sure what has really changed other than that North Vernon wont sue and that is at least not a negative.

Things do not look good but nothing has really changed.

Got out close to even..

Only thanks to the shares I bought lower after the drop.

Will look to get in at some future point.

While I like this play it is in the middle of a turf war with parties selling enormous amounts of stock into any tick up, and this is not the dilution seller either.

To me it seemed like dead money for a bit of time and after being down , I decided to exit and look to get back in lower (if that happens).

I wanted to get more stock in something else that proved a winner lately. Also just one instagram pic by a famous singer got a million likes and apparently tons of business so i figured it was a bit clearer shot in the short run.

In Box, Id look to get in if it stayed at these levels or lower and would buy on any big drops.

But between the toxic notes, the financials which I do not think will be good based on my research and this other turf war between penny flipping gangs I pressed the pause button.

Good luck to all!

yes and I do believe that. This stock would probably be 5-6 cents already if it was not for this situation.

However during this "turn" the stock keeps getting hammered. What if the Fed raises rates and things slow down a bit. Then the opportunity to bounce the stock off its lows was muted and the potential is gone. Right now is when it should be going up.

Just my opinion..

Hey man sorry it was late and sometimes when you type it is different from actually talking to someone and thus the wrong message gets across.

I totally appreciate the heads up on the reality show here. Was not poking fun at having some drinks. My apologies! Was semi-seriously offering you some scotch! (not much of a drinker myself but the peeps at my office get good stuff).

In any case, the shipping sector was beat to a pulp and nearly every company was bordering on survival or bankrupt land by March. But since then the Baltic index ticked up (from 300 to over 700 today). Teuff is in 2 cent land due to massive dilution from convertible toxic notes. But there was hope that with the 13.5 million they got from the ships they can pay off whats left of the notes.

Old market cap for Teuff 270 million. Market cap at its low like 400k. Even if they fully diluted the two notes to 200 million shares , even a 20 million market cap is 10 cents . That was my thinking until I realized there was turf battle with the other sewer operators.

Good luck , either side man, knowledge is always important, even if part of learning a lesson (for me)

Carry on!

Well I appreciate your honesty :) Im 52 and while I work as a CPA I have been around the markets since I was a teen. I have seen it all and most people have no clue how much they are getting ripped off, not only in the "otc sewers" as you call them but on pretty much every exchange by most if not all of the brokerage firms selling stock out of their own accounts to place with you if they think/know its going down as they are recommending it. Then there was "auction rate securities" fiasco where peeps money is still locked up in some cases. It took Governor Cuomo threatening firms to get investors money out (some at least).

In any case, I learn quick, saw who the bigger man was in that last exchange so I dont want to get on the wrong side of the pissing match. If you have picks you are not on the dump side of ill listen(by reading here)

I just really think if you have a lot to sell that teuff will easily run to 5 or higher on the appearance of better industry news and the sale of two ships (13.5 million in cash). But do what you have to. And honesty is greatly appreciated.

Id send you some high end scotch but finish what ya got first ;)

Hey Petey.. I witnessed the late night semi-drunken?(from what others stated) tirade on the Teuff board most between you and powerbattles and a few others most of which has since been deleted. The next day, as you stated it would, you snuffed the run and killed the stock. Not everyone is pro-trader real people get caught up in the mess there with no chance to get out since it gapped down. So I guess you won..?

I realize from reading here you guys have this goal of wiping out the pump n dump crowd of whoever these people are (and maybe they deserve it) but just wanted to let you know there are people with real money stuck in the middle of the games. People also print stuff out from the boards even though it is deleted.

Seems like I should have looked at this board first LOL

I wish you luck, maybe you can go light on TEUFF until people can trade out of it maybe not, something to consider though.

So you like QLTI? willing to toss some money coming out of another stock into something shortly.

Other than that quick flash of 1.5 million shares for sale during the day , the trades all look legit. Have you guys seen any evidence of the toxic selling in the last few days? I have not unless they are letting it drift up or the company made a deal on the note.

Industry fundamentals look strong. Id hate to give all those diluted shares away now when this can really run.

Old market cap 270 million or so. We know there are 90 million plus shares, probably going to wind up with 150 million but if surprised and capped at 120 million or so taking 25% of the old market cap or 67 million over 120 million shares you still come up 40-50 cents.

Even if you figure 200 million shares still 30 cents.

And that is using a conservative estimate of a rebound to just 25% of its old market cap.

yes I am fully aware of that.

I am talking about actual results from how the project (which was installed) has worked out for them. Like is it still working? problems? did they save money etc.

Should have some feedback. I know it is just a tidbit of info but it would be interesting to see how the stuff they did do in the past worked out that is all.

No news that I can find.

However I did hear back from someone in Jamaica who is going to find out how the Meyers Fletcher installation worked out and any other info. Ill post back when I hear more.

Those forecasts have not been adjusted for the current amount of stock outstanding. Cut them by 2/3 or more maybe even 80% depending on how much ultimately gets converted.

On August 11th, the industry news article stated this

"The 5,344-teu Box China (built 1996) and Box Hong Kong (built 1995), which are coming off charters to Mediterranean Shipping Co (MSC), have reportedly been sold “as is” in Singapore for $285 per ldt, or $6.75m each.

Box Ships is listed with nine units, with the remaining seven built after 2000."

Then shortly thereafter the company put out a 6-K announcement which you can find by going to otcmarkets.com and typing in teuff hitting filings and disclosures and clicking on the 6-k

The company does not give details but the info was in the trade article.

Here is a link for you

Box Ships Sales

Financial worse than I thought.

Tripled revenue but also increase net loss from operations.

Revenue for 6 months leads me to believe they wont hit the 18 million (first predicted) or even the 17 million (later adjusted prediction) for the year.

Debts exceed assets by about 2 million once you take out the deferred revenue (which will turn into income).

Cash is very low for all that in sales . Seems like this will be a struggle for a bit.

Had hoped for better and a clean up of the capital structure, I am sure Surber is trying here but seems like the business is just not profitable. Probably some events make money, others dont and overall since their largest franchisee they purchased could not make money it is a tough business to make profit in.

In other situations I have seen the note holder actually has people pumping to get more out of their shares and then dumps. Not sure if this is happening here but I would be suspect.

Be careful , something else going on here. As you can see

I also emailed IR back when we first found the ships were sold in Tradewinds magazine. This was over a week ago. No reply but I also just for the heck of it decided to put forward my plan I discussed here and pushed for management to protect shareholders.

Yes, I know no one will care but does not hurt to let them know we are out there.

I think we did see the selling.

The stock did go down quite a bit. But what we also so was some big buying. That is the part that was surprising to me.

It might but the PRs already talked about great revenues and people expect it.

The problem with the preferred stock is that it is convertible into a fixed dollar amount of common stock, so the lower the price goes the more potential dilution.

Before this new convertible note came along, the plan should have been to lock up the conversions on the preferreds let the price climb so dilution would be less. Then do some sort of stock offering. But they needed money and who knows if they are making money.

I think this will be a good stock sometime soon but perhaps not just yet due to the issues with capital structure.

Personally I would only buy on a major downdraft to a few pennies or less, like a major blowdown. But everyone should do their own Due diligence and they might feel differently.

Seeing almost 1 million for sale

That is just what you can see on level 2

If you have an Ihub account look at my prior posts on this stock.

I think this is a good business to be in but as I have stated before it has multiple capital structure issues. Also of note is that the franchisee which Sakl purchased had been losing money putting on these events and that is why they sold it to SAKL.

Unlike others I think Surber is trying to do the right thing here. Trying to clean up a mess as best he can but he needed cash, has preferred shareholders that want out and now a convertible toxic note.

The biggest problem was the preferred shares convertible into tens of millions of Common shares. Just one 6 million share conversion dropped the stock from 15 cents to 5 cents before the modest bounce up. Then the convertible note was issued, again convertible into millions of shares, and that will create selling pressure as well and might even push the preferred shareholders to want to convert more of their shares given the price breakdown.

Since all the "good news" on revenues is already expected, the financials will not do much for the stock price. Plus there will be a later year revenue slowdown.

Personally, while I love what this company does, and do not feel Surber is out to ruin anyone, I think this will take a while to settle and it will be at lower prices perhaps much lower prices.

Those prices combined with audited financials and and some kind of lock up of preferred conversions and an end to the convertible note might provide a buying opportunity but I think it will be a lot lower than now.

Honestly I am not here to bash but have seen these convertibles in action before and really love what this company does, I think it is the future of entertainment. But everything lies in what exactly you own. And if your piece keeps getting smaller due to more stock outstanding than it is hard to see this going up (for now).

I wish investors and the company luck . Gonna watch this one.

They stopped paying the dividend. the last one was Jan 2016. They had an exchange offer for some of the preferred stock , I remember reading it in one of the reports, try the most recent 20-F. It was not a lot of stock that was exchanged for common under the program but it was done similarly to how these toxic notes were done.

Toxic, I understand all your posts, and agree with those on dilution and so on and obviously the chance of bankruptcy is an option but what I do not understand is why you stated you own shares now when you think it is going down?

According to a trade report the ships were sold for 6.5 million each. I emailed them that the report was out there along with the other comments I said I would make . The 6-k just came out but the ships sales will help but most money will go to the bank.

Box Ships Financial Statements 12/31/15

See pages 101-104 of the PDF

Link is below.

Please note that while they lost money , most of the loss was an impairment loss or writedown of the value of the ships (about 21 million of the 26 million dollar loss (this is on the income statement

The cash flow statement shows net cash flow from operations of 13 million. Which means its operations were still cash flow positive last year which was a bad year.

You can see year by year comparisons on the income decline as well.

While the 1st half of 2016 is anyone's guess my own research seems to show that it was still difficult including a bounce period and a possible period of downtime as shown on page 33 of the pdf which is a table of where their ships were as of the date that report was issued in April. 2 ships were idle including their Maule ship which gets the most revenue.

This leads me to believe 1st half will still show a struggle.

However since the 1st half ended things in the industry seem to be looking up. That might breathe life into this. The sale of two ships with most of the money going to the banks should help them stay going until the bank deal expires next year..

Here is the PDF link Annual Report Box Ships Inc 2015

Good info.

Unless there is a positive surprise or buyback of note 2 this will be a tough one for a while.

However they just sold 2 ships. It is possible they dont care about shareholders and will just keep issuing CD notes but the next one will kill all interest. The way I have it figured (assuming 150-200 million) after this note there is still value here. One more note and not enough to warrant taking any chance.

If they just carve out a few hundred k for paying off this note from the boat sale, they could zoom this stock. Either way they are giving up tons of ownership already though.

Well yeah might be a realistic "goal"

However we do not know if more notes will be issued?

On the plus side they sold two ships so maybe they put in those bids to stop the price from falling to take out the rest of the note on a buyback but probably not.

I guess time will tell. Good to see it moving up though :)

forecast was made before 60 million known new shares, and probably another 40-60 million shares we assume are happening but do not know for sure.

So assuming that same forecast 90 million shares vs 30 million shares, that 90 cents becomes 30 cents. Another 60 million shares and it becomes around 15 cents

1500 bucks takes us to 2?

Unless they reload of course. Could be just a gap in between conversion lumps though.

In any case up is better than down!

Redsky, what was info on DRYS

What was the stock price before the RS and what is it now, charts are all over the place. Also O/s before and after? it was a 1 for 5 right?

I totally agree with those posts on scaling in the buys and buying more lower.

However there are 2 additional risks here

1- CD note 3 (possible maybe)

2- Reverse split.

Box ships sister company Paragon did 2 500k cd notes, an exchange agreement and then when the stock was toasted did a reverse split.

In that case the time to buy apparently was post reverse split after the smackdown.

I personally had one of those in recent years. Stock went from 4-5 bucks to 20 cents or so, thought it was overbaked, went down and down then reverse split and went down incredibly more. Was down 90%. Then it was at a totally ridiculous market value. I pulled the trigger by 10xing my shares at the low. Actually in that case caught the exact bottom low and it tripled.

I turned a loss into a 25% profit. Bur my problems was I sold,

The post split 20 going to 60 where I sold (approx) wound up being only part of a move to 2.00 but after being beat up so bad I felt let me take the 20% and not be greedy. That is the hardest thing, knowing when to hold.

It is rolling because it is the 21 days prior to the date of conversion. By time passing it rolls.

Ok well they are close then

Well even assuming the 90 million (which we saw on the 6-k) and we know it is more than that most likely they would have to buy what close to 10% or 9 million? Not sure they are up that high yet. But if they try to get 2.5 mil a day they will be there soon.

Ok we agree, sorry it is late and it was hot today (over 90 here) so spent the day getting tired out in the pool LOL

In any case, the real chance to fly here is in a surprise like a not buyback.

But also agree with your points.

A few things, when Box was making a ton of money oil prices were higher (costs to them), that is much lower now. Also interest rates are really low now. Plus they paid out a dividend, and a preferred dividend (both halted for now) So between usual cash flow, no outflow of dividends and lower operating costs and of course the ship sales and banks working with them, I definitely see the potential.

Too bad some of the people just fly in and out. Is Wishful thinking still in the play? Went from dozens of posts to hardly any if any LOL

Best of luck!

I picked up some shares near the 50day but had some a bit higher so I might add below 1.25 and add more below 1 (if it gets there) wont add higher than where i am unless positive news of some sort comes. If they buy back the note this might be a buy up to 4 or more.

Like I said it is possible. I have seen these toxics before but never with what was once a much bigger company that still had some other options/tricks.

They might have to give all of that money for ship sales to the bank and are probably trying to turn this around. It is possible that they needed the 250k had to have it immmediately but knew the boats would be sold shortly.

If they make the move to buy that note (whatever is left and say it is a good amount) the stock could go back to its previous trajectory which left off around 4 cents.

Not that it makes any difference but I emailed IR this point but also included the plan of how I would do things (not that they care) but ya never know. I did get the chance to meet two of Ebays CEOs and had dinner with them at two different times. People are surprisingly open at times.

good luck to all!

Well no one knows what will happen or what the value would be.

But lets just use some examples to make this clearer.

Let us just say at the top of its game Box had 30 million shares oustanding and a stock price of 10 bucks on the NYSE for a total market value of 300 million.

What I am trying to tell you is that if you issue enough new shares that value of 10 bucks keeps going down because you own a smaller piece of the pie.

Using the AUG 1 release, if nothing had changed and Box ships was still going great guns like in the good old days and was worth 300 million. You same shares that would be worth 10 are now worth about 3 bucks and change.

We all "think" "Guess" "try to estimate" where the shares outstanding will be after this note. That guess is somewhere between 150 million and 200 million (given the 30k remaining on the first note.

Let us use the worst case. 200 million shares.

If Box ships was in its glory days of years ago doing fantastic and there were 200 million shares outstanding it would be selling for 2 bucks a share.

So assuming note 2 is converted and everything is amazing in Box ship land the price in its best days would be 2.00 (guess of course)

But these are not Box's best days. The shipping sector got smacked and one article stated they just sold 2 ships. This is good to pay down debt but will lower income of course.

In any case in my mind , personally , my opinion, I think with a modest shipping sector turn , providing this company can stay afloat with their banks we could see a bounce to 10-20% of its former valuation, perhaps more but I guess low.

10% of that 2 bucks is 20 cents, 20% is 40 cents.

This is , in my opinion due to shares outstanding no longer a multiple buck stock you are thinking incorrectly.

HOWEVER, the only way that could happen is if the company reverses course and pays off the balance of that note immediately, and perhaps buys back stock. That is what I would do but you cannot expect that to happen.

I hope this helps some, But do your own due diligence, this is just how I am thinking of things. A valuation wobble/bounce with a potential for good news or a surprise kicker.