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You are a buyer and seller of jars of peanut butter. Your special brand is Peanut Insanity Open-Easy (PIOE) Peanut Butter. Any day you want you can walk down to the marketplace down in Pinkston and buy or sell your PIOE for about $5.00 a jar. Hundreds of people buy there every day. If someone won't buy for $5, perhaps they would pay $4.99. If you can't buy a new supply for $4.99, you could probably pick some up for $5.
But one day you were told that you couldn't buy or sell your PIOE Peanut Butter at that market and nobody was around there for several weeks. You were told that maybe you could do some business over in the gray district across town. So you went. When you got there, there were only two people that seemed like they could do something to help you. One said that he would be glad to give you more peanut butter for $10.99 a jar. The other was more interested in buying, and he said he would gladly pay $1.59 for a jar of your PIOE.
This disappointed you because you had recently signed a deal that was going to reward you based on the average price of your PIOE sales for the next five days. But in the gray market district, there weren't enough traders to come up with any kind of realistic value of your PIOE. In fact, you had a brand new and improved version of PIOE that had never been sold before. You weren't sure exactly what it would normally sell for and there was no way to tell in the gray district. And now your reward might be based on some crazy number that has no relationship to what amount might be popular soon when all the regular traders are allowed to return back home in Pinkston. "This stinks", you thought to yourself...
Your "just for fun" adds up to $120,650,000 (if you leave out the line of credit, since draws on that would be debt).
Let's see, if there are still 23,300,000 shares out there, that would be about $5.18 per share.
Do you think that is high?
The market isn't saying anything about that yet, because there is not yet a free market in the stock. But if the 45-cent trade (high today so far) is an indication of what someone knows, that price indicates about a $10,000,000 company in shareholder equity is to come someday. Just for fun, of course, because stocks are not traded at book value very often.
The 21.5 cent option implies a book vale of very close to $5,000,000. It's so close that perhaps that is how someone arrived at the number 21.5.
All of this is assuming 23,300,000 shares or so.
Time will tell about how much fun is to be had. My fun begins at around 70 cents from back in ACPW days.
We are trading now? No bid/ask at Schwab. Data there is .00/.00 Bid/Ask
Open/Hi/Lo .262/.45/.262 Last at .41 Volume today 7500
My order is still open to buy at 26 cents.
This is just like yesterday except, for what it is worth, the share price is closer to the $0.38 final price of PIOIQ.
None of this may be very meaningful when we get back up to 100,000 or more shares traded per day.
Hard to believe that "trading day" is defined as a day when most people are unable to trade. I really don't think so.
I am also concerned that PIOIQ last traded around $.38 and PIOE seems to be dialed back to $.25. Perhaps $.25 will end up meaningless if there is any clarifying PR to kick off real trading.
Here is the 12/31/16 balance sheet for comparison to the first quarter results that are expected in May:
In Millions of USD As of 2016-12-31:
Cash & Equivalents 1.57
Accounts Receivable - Trade, Net 0.04
Prepaid Expenses 0.07
Total Current Assets 1.68
Other Long Term Assets, Total 0.17
Total Assets 1.85
Accounts Payable 0.03
Accrued Expenses 0.43
Other Current liabilities, Total 1.21
Total Current Liabilities 1.67
Total Liabilities 1.67
Common Stock, Total 0.02
Additional Paid-In Capital 306.75
Retained Earnings (Accumulated Deficit) -306.32
Treasury Stock - Common -0.27
Total Equity 0.18
Total Liabilities & Shareholders' Equity 1.85
Total Common Shares Outstanding 23.30
For some reason I couldn't find this on p10industries.com, so this is from Google Finance. I expect that all values are at cost, so this may not say much about the value of patents the company holds.
Personally, I would be surprised if much will be different in the March 30, 2017 report.
OK, then, I'll raise you to 26 cents. My buy order was accepted at Schwab GoodTilCancelled and we will see if it executes. The StreetSmart.com Level II & ECN Books shows nothing but .00/.00 Bid/Ask. But it confirms the total daily volume as 1,610 at 25 cents with Open/Hi/Lo at .25/.25/.25(rounded, I guess).
So the trading seems to have begun, but normal trading should follow soon.
If the 3-day wait is just a formality, and the filing was done on Monday, trading may start as early as tomorrow or Friday. So be ready!
If there is some sort of investigation within the procedure, then it would be longer, I guess. The way I read things that have been quoted here, it looks more like the 3-day wait is just a formality, or designated time to get everyone fairly informed about the new listing. Just a guess.
I have not seen anything that acts like any regulator looks into what is going on with the shares that are offered, but I agree that something like that would likely cause a delay.
Some companies do MUCH worse than what's happening to PIOE:
"May 22, 2002 - USinternetworking Inc. emerged from Chapter 11 bankruptcy yesterday with additional funding from a new investor and plans to merge with another software services company. Annapolis-based USi, which filed for bankruptcy protection in Baltimore in January, said that it received $81.3 million in new capital from private equity firm..."
Sounds good, except that all USi stockholders, the OWNERS, my small investment included, were excluded from the deal and all stock was rendered worthless. I felt that having the company continue on with the same name after the stockholders were flushed added insult to injury.
So when ACPW headed down that road, I was very relieved to find that the stockholders would survive the bankruptcy. I am still surprised that we are included in going forward. Accordingly, this indicates a high quality of management going forward in PIOE as well.
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So why not the same market makers PIOI had? To me that is an interesting question. Deal with old MMs expired? New stock offering later? To get off the pink sheets (I doubt that's it)? ???? What does anyone know?
The 23,300,000 shares outstanding already, I would presume. (Their soon to be issued replacement shares.)
IPO? Selling brand new shares to raise capital? I thought we are in a hold to do a one-for-one replacement of cancelled shares for new shares.
A lot of things need to happen to do an IPO, from what I read. I don't think that an investment banker would be able to do that in a few days or weeks. Would there be zero publicity at this time?
I also don't think that it would be left for a lawyer to not have told Mr. Powers, "Oh! And we have to go through an IPO, by the way".
Maybe an offering of additional authorized shares will be on the horizon someday, but unless i missed something, it is not to happen before trading in PIOE begins. Does anybody know?
Maybe so, I hope it is just a process delay like you have mentioned.
I have been waiting for a transaction in my brokerage account that shows addition of shares "P TEN INDUSTRIES (NEW)" or something like that.
It is unbelievable to me that a "trading day" in the company's definition could be a day when PIOE does NOT trade. If the formula relies on "the greater of" two numbers and you take away one of the numbers, that certainly can't be what was intended. There should be a dispute if trading is delayed for the purpose of locking in the minimum price in the formula.
Secondly, they should also be on thin ice if they know something substantial and don't release the information. That also would be for the purpose of manipulating the stock price.
I am hopeful that we are just in a process period and trading will commence as soon as it is allowed, and that news will be released without obstruction.
The higher over the minimum the stock trades in the first five days, the more incentive there would be to allow stockholder value to increase, in my opinion.
If you also mention that $21-million in assets was also removed from the balance sheet between September and year-end, that would explain why equity was only $180,000 on the books.
It cost ACPW something to shed its operations, but it can now go forward. I am grateful for you trying to make sense of what PIOE is doing now. I am grateful that they preserved the shareholders' remaining positions after sustaining losses that would bankrupt the company eventually.
Thanks.
OK, so you say ACPW (now PIOE) didn't receive $26 million in cash. What did it receive?
I think it received a "nominal" price, very small, for Langley to take away their operating assets, assume their debts and carry on their money-losing business operations. Langley is out of the picture now, right?
That should have left ACPW with a "nominal" amount of cash, its collection of patents and its tax advantages from accumulated major operating losses. The December balance sheet seems to show the small amount of cash and assets.
The bankruptcy has now protected the ownership from past claims for rents and anything else.
I think there is value in what is remaining in the company, but the 21.5 cents per share option limit says something about share value at present.
If the company is to get more cash for operations, it would have to attract interest in its patents and its tax situation. Money coming in would either be from patents sales, new debt or for new shares.
I am guessing that new money would mostly be for new shares. The new shares would dilute shareholders' holdings, but should also be the pathway to profitability if we have good management and things go well.
So I agree that there is potential, but I don't know how numbers thrown around like "$26 million" are meaningful if they don't link to something on the company's balance sheet.
I am not very experienced in interpreting these forms, but it looks like he now has a 10-year option to buy 1.6 million shares. The price can be no lower than 21.5 cents per share, but the next trading days could create a higher price by a formula that is provided. Is that what it looks like to you?
So you are referring to the ACPW sale in November: "Under the terms of the APA, Langley will acquire substantially all assets and operations of Active Power, including the Active Power name, through their Piller USA Inc. subsidiary for a nominal purchase price, plus the assumption of all debt, liabilities, customer, employee and purchase commitments going forward."
A "nominal purchase price" makes sense to me because ACPW reported assets of $23.06 million and total liabilities of $15.95 million shortly before that on September 30. The difference (equity) was $7.11 million. If Piller discounted receivables and inventory in their offer price, as I expect they would not pay full book value, I can see how the purchase price becomes "nominal". I do not see a $26 million purchase price.
I also do not see $26 million on the books at December 31. They reported $1.57 million in cash and a couple of hundred thousand more to bring total assets to $1.85 million. Equity stood at $180 thousand (rounded). I presume the sale was booked by then.
So I don't get the $26 million you have posted about. But I evidently have missed something big, so my apologies if I have.
Also, the future is a totally different subject. New investment changes the picture and the recent $9 million market cap reflects the market's perception of the company's value based on the recent share price.
This really could grow after its new beginning.
November 2016 doesn't seem right for any sale. This Balance sheet information doesn't show $26 million on the books for sale of patents. The cash asset is very much less. I thought they were retaining patents until after the bankruptcy.
Will there be more shares issued than replacement of the cancelled shares? You seem to have more facts about this investment at hand than I have kept up with. If all we have are replacement shares being issued, then the company is not raising capital by offering new shares. But if they are, those shares would be a new issue, wouldn't they?
Looks like we get a day off.
StreetSmart.com at Schwab recognizes PIOE but zero bid/ask. Orders for a trade do not work at least partly because the symbol is not recognized for order-taking purposes. My positions have no ticker; the CUSIP number is still how shares of P Ten are identified there.
PIOE went on FINRA's Daily List yesterday. My broker Schwab doesn't recognize the ticker symbol yet, but I guess that is coming very soon.
Schwab can say they were first to halt. LOL. No PIOIQ trading there today.
That must have been a great sale that I missed. I knew they were holding patents, but not that they were paid $26 million for some of what they had. Was this long ago and what did the bankruptcy do to that $26 million cash?
Unhappy til I see a tradable ticker symbol in my brokerage account. The CUSIP number just won't do!
Schwab called me back to investigate why I said that my inquiry was unresolved. (That's good customer service for a tiny commission at stake.) They say that there are no trades (through them at least) due to "corporate action". I suspect this won't stay this way for very long.
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Do you think $21MM is a real value for the patents, or is it just someone's estimate? If an estimate, how good of an estimate?
Regarding "69372U108", that is the CUSIP number on the PIOIQ shares. Schwab is identifying PIOIQ shares with that instead of the ticker symbol now. Downside is that they don't trade there that way. But I surmise new shares are being issued very soon, as I said before.
A broker at Schwab says the PIOIQ is not trading today although I have been watching it trade all morning on their own StreetSmart.com. I can't buy or sell today, so will wait.
I still surmise this points to new securities being issued in the new company, though.
I am guessing about what's happening now. Here goes:
I have had an odd Schwab symbol on bankrupt stock that went worthless in the past. So my guess is that today the old shares are being cancelled and we will shortly receive new shares. I am also guessing that trading is impaired while this is going on. There were 1370 shares traded at 9:42 and your 2000 makes up the whole volume of 3370 so far today. That's all.
I may as well also guess that PIOI doesn't want to or shouldn't release news until trading is running smoothly.
On Schwab the ticker has converted to "69372U108" with code D ("Deficient: Issuer Failed to Meet Exchange Continued Listing Requirements") and code B which seems to be a limitation on trading for volatility. However, Schwab still tracks PIOIQ and it recently sold at .39 with Bid .39 / Ask .42. Orders are not being accepted online at Schwab, at least from me.
Schwab is not accepting any symbol for PTen Industries so far this morning. I will have to buy more later on.
Those who know are doing a good job keeping their news quiet, aren't they? Volume is tiny even though it would seem logical that something newsworthy is about to happen.
I am guessing that PIOI has a very small number of followers, and among them are some who may know too much so they have to stay out now. If there were a large number of outsiders, someone would be buying or selling, hoping for breaking news just ahead, and demand would move the share price.
The price may already reflect what is coming short-term, but this time I doubt it. A positive surprise, or a case where buyers want to see the news published first, seems much more likely than negative news. After all, our investment went bankrupt and we are still standing here talking about it.
We had a major downturn when bankruptcy was filed in March. This likely caused a few investors to leave because they do not invest in bankruptcies of any kind. But then, when news of an expedited hearing came out around April 6, we have had a steady share price increase. After the hearing, the price has backed off.
Where are we now? The big question is how optimistic is the share price today compared to what is perceived to be happening and not yet announced. I am hopeful that a rally will begin soon that would foretell that the uninformed are soon to be surprised by positive events. ("Buy on rumor, sell on news".)
If there is no rally before positive news, then the news is not as positive as some buyers of the stock think it would be. It has been assumed for a long time that business acquisitions are planned.
Probably the best scenario would be where an expected deal turns out to be richer than originally planned, or a new opportunity arises that is better than those already planned for. Because at today's expectations based on what is known or assumed, we have a company estimated by the market to be worth about 34 cents a share.
I am risking that there is very little chance that short-term news will be negative or worse than expected. My biggest concern is what part of any increased value gets through to the shareholders vs. what gets spent on operations (including compensation) or under the control of lenders or for other company obligations.
Basically any situation can be a fraud when there is big money around, so that is a caution. There could be payback via another means.
However, in this case, I am on your side and agree with you. I don't have reason to believe that our knowledge is being intentionally limited. I think we may be participating in a very good situation. If PIOI turns out to be big, and safe for institutional investors, we are in on the ground floor. But the market has not priced this in, and it will when it sees it coming. That will be before we see it, or if there is a happy surprise.
In other words, what we have with all of its good and bad prospects is thought to be worth about 37 cents right now.
I've had my share of misadventures with stocks that ended up bankrupt due to my inclination to invest in turnarounds or other situations where the company is going through tough challenges. ACPW looked like one of those, so I bought in at several dollars per share. As I was holding I became very concerned when they didn't seem to know who in China they were selling product to. Didn't like that the CFO left, who was a very principled man, I believe. Later, I worried that new technology in batteries would outdo their mechanical version of power interruption protection.
But as PIOI, this bankruptcy is doing better than others. The stockholders have survived the bankruptcy in this case. There has been a share price run-up because of the optimism of passing through the bankruptcy. Will there be another rally? I think that there very well could be soon as news that is not yet priced in becomes known.
The bankruptcy wipes the slate clean for creditor claims. Does it also wipe out future shareholder class action suits? I guess it does.
So PIOI is now set up to go forward. Is it set up to be a growing and successful company that grows share value? Or is it set up to be a merger or takeover where everyone gets 10 cents a share? (Is there risk of criminality if pre-planning that is the case?) Or will the new business be a loser?
My choice for my investment is that we have a winner here, and I've put my money on it. Negative possibilities like those mentioned hold the price down. But as PIOI becomes a safer investment, the share price would rise.
Even the best stocks fall on good news. PIOIQ fell today. So what?
I am hopeful to see the 60-cent level taken out soon.
No "sell on news" developing in early trading. Only 2,000 shares sold under .3998 and the high was 43 cents. This is good news.
The plan to attempt to acquire one or more businesses is priced in, but what is that worth? As that news becomes specific, it may be better than expected.
Things are looking great so far today, in that a "sell on news" did not develop. A test of that 45-cent high would be in order soon, in my opinion.
First buyer thinks 40 cents is cheap! Bid going up. An interesting morning ahead...
You never know what is priced in (not a surprise) and what is better than expected. So far today is not a surprise. If I know something about a stock, then a lot of people already knew it. But it's hard to see a downside unless everybody else already knows what the acquisition(s) are to be.
I'm guessing that volume will be high and mostly buyers, so a big climb in price might be about to take place. A test for a new high is due after successes of yesterday. Right now the high is .43
Does anyone see PIOIQ meeting listing requirements for market cap, minimum share price, shareholder equity, etc., or is this a pink sheets stock long term? I am afraid that dilution of shares or reverse splits in the short term would be hurtful to relisting. On the other hand, will the new shares after bankruptcy meet NASDAQ listing requirements because of additional capital?