2018 Only Jesus Saves!!
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Goodnight all. =]
... and so shall we ever be with the Lord.(it is important to know where He is going if you are going to be with Him for ever.)-quote.
----------------
I AGREE.
THEREFORE we need to look at scripture over all, and decipher how to make sense of certain passages.
For example, the bible says that we do NOT know the time when Jesus is going to return. Correct, ok.
However, we do know that the tribulation is 7 years.
That Jesus is going to return after the last 3 1/2 years of his reighn here, and.....that would give us an exact time it would seem, when Jesus is coming.
So by no means at all would this be a secret coming that would catch people off guard without oil, and miss the Lord.
You see... the bible descibes 2 events that take place.
1)a secret coming
2)all eyes shall see him.
God in the past, has literally slipped by the crowds, and went his way, why? "because his time was not yet"-gospels.
God seperated his people from the enemies in the past.
And could "bring them out of sodom and gomorrah and spiritual egypt" as is referenced to as well.
The fact is.......The secret coming, be ready- is the difference between a long drawn out, christians are mostly dead/dying over a 7 year time period. Especially with no buy/selling without a mark, etc etc .
The bible and ALL ITS CORE DOCTRINES (THINGS THAT ARE/WILL HAPPEN) REQUIRE THE ENTIRETY OF THE BIBLE, TO JUSTIFY OR NULLIFY. Its one great puzzle without anything missing. =)
Hi RC,
1st Logic can be deceiving-quote.
--------------------------------------
That is partially correct.
Almost a paradox however.
I can 100% agree with the concept there as in: the cross is foolish to those that are perishing.
The foolishness of preaching is salvation to those that believe.
Alright, so.......
We need to understand the difference.
1) is as above.
2) is.....LOGIC *through the WORD. =)
We can all agree on this.
Scripture is the defining measure to ALL "logic".
And it is initself (without contradiction) so it is COMPLETE AND THEREFORE - LOGICAL.
This is the spring board to BEGIN meaningful discussions on relevant biblical issues in scripture.
Godbless.
Good question...
What are the reasons the "rapture" either:
1)will occur
2)will not occur.
Why or why not is the concept of the rapture, something that God would do? -VERITAS77
ALRIGHT.....
SO, this was the important part of the question.
Is the rapture something that God would or would not do?
*Because the scriptures are consistant in revealing events that are going to happen BEFORE they actually take place, I believe the rapture is something that God would do.
We could recite verse after verse for both viewpoints.
However I think logic alone and understanding the heart of God may help wash away some of the filth that has surrounded this idea.
God is a rewarder of those that dilligently seek Him.
For this reason I believe it is in God's nature to spare His people who are seeking Him in obedience now.
God has told us in His word, that it is a wicked and perverse generation that requireth a sign.
It has been said that "rapturists" are only thinking of themselves and are "escapists" looking for a free ride outta here.
Alright. That single arguement is simular to why us BELIEVERS , follow Jesus. WE WANT TO ESCAPE HELL WITHOUT A DOUBT! =)
*Regardless of personal motives of belief (though in the eyes of the Lord it does matter)
I believe that John 3:16 was just the start.
If God was willingly to shed his only begotten son's blood on the cross for our sins being tortured, it is not difficult for me to fathom that as a last MAJOR/WORLD PHENOM that God would graciously GIVE A SIGN to this hell bound generation.
It is a logical possibility.
Think it through.
If..........sooooooooo many people ARE INFACT not going to heaven because of unrepented sin (REV21:8) the things detailed here, than a reward of missing a temporal hell on earth- IS THE LAST THING ON GOD'S MIND.
IT IS A UNQUESTIONABLE SIGN- **FOR THE UNBELIEVER.
I 100% BELIEVE THIS.
Think it through.
If.........believers are really ready, and willingly to lay down their life for the gospel of truth, then all the tribulation is for is excess torture, you might say.
However if, the rapture will wake up NON believers to : ALL THE EVENTS MENTIONED IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION AFTER CHAPTER 3:10........Than that would be logical.
**For the record- God is against the proud, but will RAISE the humble UP.
So if........ people are only after an escape route for belief, than they may infact miss just that.
Food for thought.
The final book is called REVELATION, for a reason.
It is to be understood, more than not.
Godbless you all tonight.
Mind you, No verses were displayed entirely, only a simple understanding of how in the past God has faithfully revealed major events that are for HIS PEOPLE, before they happen, so they will know it is the Lord that has brought you out of dispair.
Good question...
What are the reasons the "rapture" either:
1)will occur
2)will not occur.
Why or why not is the concept of the rapture, something that God would do?
Good question...
What are the reasons the "rapture" either:
1)will occur
2)will not occur.
Why or why not is the concept of the rapture, something that God would do?
It is more of a reference like
the "trinity, or the bible", descriptive words for an meaning.
Thessalonians 4:16-18
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17: "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
YES, the Lord is coming, and YES will be not be stationary.
We will be MEETING Him in the AIR....got your swooosh ready?!
(Shoes/feet ready-gospel)
Remember the 2nd coming is when Jesus will stand on the Mt of Olives, and rule and reighn for 1000 years literally on earth.
Then afterwords the consumation of the fullness of the Godhead in Rev 21, and New Jerusalem comes down. We at about this time have the final judgements were the dead NOT in Christ are raised after the 1000 years in hell, and the lake of fire is now the final dwelling place of all wicked from all of creation until that time.
We have as mentioned, a new heaven and a new earth...and TIME NO MORE.
ETERNITY BEGINS.......
(and yet, for us all it is with a personal choice, and a willingness to obey the Lord, and ask for 4giveness and His love to sustain us in our daily needs).
The Rapture
J. N. Grace
Thy death and resurrection, Lord,
(How faith rejoices in the word!)
Have met the charge that on us lay,
And taken all death's sting away.
Soon all the saints who through Thee sleep,
Th' appointment in the air will keep,
When, rising from Thy Father's throne,
Thou comest forth to claim Thine own.
Thy voice the realm of death shall burst,
The dead in Christ arising first;
And, in a moment, we who live
The Spirit's quick'ning change receive.
Together then, the church will be
Complete in one vast company!
Caught up to meet Thee, blessed Lord,
Where Thou shalt ever be adored.
And now in faith and hope and love,
We wait to greet Thee from above;
Each heart sustained in power and grace;
Until we see Thee face to face.
The Rapture
Yep.
God wills......that NONE perish but ALL come to repentance.
by the giving of the 10 commandments, and the fact that HE COMMANDED : THOU SHALT NOT...
Any yet- we are able to violate Gods direct thou shalt not
REVEALS- that we all have FREEWILL. =]
As before in Ephesians- it is a personal heart condition.
Be blessed. =]
Hi mig,
Hi Happydog...
Amen, and a high 5 paw at ya too!
John3:16 (whosoever- Its really true).
Be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
*ARMOUR OF GOD* (KJV) KING JESUS VERSION
Eph 6:7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
Eph 6:8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether [he be] bond or free.
Eph 6:9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
Eph 6:10 ¶ Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
Eph 6:21 ¶ But that ye also may know my affairs, [and] how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:
Eph 6:22 Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and [that] he might comfort your hearts.
Eph 6:23 Peace [be] to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 6:24 Grace [be] with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen...
Be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
*ARMOUR OF GOD* (KJV) KING JESUS VERSION
Eph 6:7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
Eph 6:8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether [he be] bond or free.
Eph 6:9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
Eph 6:10 ¶ Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
Eph 6:21 ¶ But that ye also may know my affairs, [and] how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:
Eph 6:22 Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and [that] he might comfort your hearts.
Eph 6:23 Peace [be] to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 6:24 Grace [be] with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen...
crgo
The Answer (you never know who's coming over)
A new pastor moved into town and went out one Saturday to visit his neighbourhood.
All went well until he came to one house.
It was obvious that someone was home, but no one came to the door even after he had knocked several times.
Finally, he took out his card and wrote on the back: Revelation 3:20 and stuck it in the door.
The next day, as he was counting the offering he found his card in the collection plate.
Below his message was the notation Genesis 3:10.
Revelation 3:20 reads: "Behold I stand at the door and knock.
If any man hear my voice, and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with me."
Genesis 3:10 reads: "And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked."
Lets be ready when Jesus comes! Have a great night... knock, knock lol =]
A Childs Point Of View
he story of Adam and Eve was being carefully explained in the children's Sunday School class. Following the story, the children were asked to draw some picture that would illustrate the story.
Little Bobby was most interested and drew a picture of a car with three people in it. In the front seat, behind the wheel was a man and in the back seat, a man and a woman.
The teacher was at a loss to understand how this illustrated the lesson of Adam and Eve.
But little Bobby was prompt with his explanation. "Why, this is God driving Adam and Eve out of the garden!"
Hi risk,
The moon.
Well........
In Genesis- And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.
*I would certainly have to say that God made
1) 2 great lights.
a)SUN
b)MOON
2)stars
One for day, one for night.
Pretty simple.
Well.......
It looks like we had a good solid week In at least addressing the importance of the bible. Even with discussions in Genesis about the beginning of civilization, and timeframes. We also briefly talked about the Antichrist...though I recall that conversation was brief. Which is understandable, seeing as yet his physical presence has not been elivated to power, yet. Alright, I would like to propose the idea that since we are starting a new trading week here tomorrow,
that mig or others think of a topic that we can all run with this week =]
We had a heated weak, despite that- I believe we are around still, and maybe geared up a bit more now in the things of God.
Suggestions:
1) Fruit of the Spirit (9)
2) The believers full armour (6)
3) Fresh approach to dealing with old habits (good or bad)
Godbless. =P
Hi all,
Been having some lively conversations recently.
Just got this off another board.
We need to build one another up STRONG AND FIRM in the faith.
------------this article is no joke---------------------
When grandmas go to jail for witnessing
February 7, 2007
By Janet Folger
WND.com
Arrested for sharing the Gospel? An expected outcome in North Korea, China or any Muslim country on the globe. But in Pennsylvania? Yep. Arlene Elshinnawy, a 75-year-old grandmother of three, and Lynda Beckman, a 70-year-old grandmother of 10 (along with nine others), were arrested for sharing their faith on the public sidewalk in Philadelphia, Pa., USA. They faced 47 years (the rest of their lives) in jail for spreading the Gospel because of a Pennsylvania "hate crimes" law that is nearly identical to H.R. 254 – the "hate crimes" bill reintroduced in Congress and said to be on the "fast track" in the House Judiciary Committee. This is the same bill that previously passed both the House and Senate and was killed only because of Republican leadership opposition in conference – something we no longer have.
Don't believe hate crimes will silence your freedom of speech and freedom of religion? Think again.
Pastors in Pennsylvania are now seeking liability insurance to protect themselves from being prosecuted under the "hate speech" law. That's right. They are reacting to Pennsylvania's addition of "sexual orientation" to the state's hate crimes laws. Of particular concern was the expansion of the definition of "harassment" to include "harassment by communication" – which means one could be convicted based upon spoken words alone.
Their fear is a rational one. Hate crimes invariably lead to fines and jail time for those who "violate" them. Just ask Sweden's Pastor Ake Green. Green faced jail time for the content of his sermon. He read from Romans Chapter 1 – something that is no longer legal in Sweden.
The "hate crimes" – or more appropriately, "thought crimes" – bill is the single most dangerous bill in America. Along with its companion, the "Employment Non-Discrimination Act," or ENDA – "Thought Crimes for your Business"– is expected to pass this session of Congress. Bow to the homosexual agenda – endorse, embrace, subsidize and celebrate it – or go out of business. That's what it did to the largest and most respected adoption agency in Boston, Catholic Charities, who, by refusing to place vulnerable orphans in homosexual homes, was forced to close its doors. England's about to get a dose of the same.
But you don't speak out about homosexuality, you say? Think you're safe? Think again. Here are just a few examples I've highlighted my book, "The Criminalization of Christianity," where you'll find a whole lot more.
Protest Islam? That's a hate crime!
Maybe it had something to do with Sept. 11. Maybe it had something to do with the beheadings. Maybe it had something to do with what is written in the Quran. But Canadian Pastor Mark Harding doesn't believe the Muslim religion is one of peace. So when his local high school started handing out copies of the Quran and announced a policy of setting aside a room for Muslim students to pray during school hours, Pastor Harding protested. Didn't think it was a good idea – especially since Christian, Jewish and Buddhist kids weren't afforded the same opportunity.
After losing an appeal to Canada's Supreme Court Oct. 17, 2002, Harding was said to have "willfully promoted hatred" in violation of Canadian law that had just passed six months earlier. He was then forced to undergo two years probation and 340 hours of "community service" at the Islamic Society of North America in Mississauga, Ontario.
So, for the "crime" of handing out leaflets protesting a high school's pro-Muslim policy, Pastor Harding was ordered to do community service to further the very religion he morally opposed.
Harding, an evangelical Protestant, says his evangelism is motivated by love for the Muslim people (rather than hate). In fact, in a phone call used as "evidence" against him in the trial, Harding verbalizes that he loves them. He says he wants them to go to heaven. Yet he received more than 3,000 hate-filled calls – many of them death threats. Some motioned by running their finger across their neck from ear to ear. Upon entering court for his trial, he required police protection from a large crowd of Muslims who were chanting, "Infidels, you will burn in hell." Of course, that speech is loving.
Harding said, "I had a call from someone who said they were from (Louis) Farrakhan's (Nation of Islam) group, and they were going to break my legs." Adding, "Another caller said he would rip out my testicles." Can't you just feel the love?
But instead of just "stuffing envelopes" to promote the Muslim faith, his punishment included Islam indoctrination under the direction of Mohammad Ashraf, the general secretary of the Islam center. Under penalty of going to jail, Harding was forced to undergo Islamic "re-education," which included reading a book called "Towards Understanding Islam," by Sayyid Abul A'la Maududi, which provided a description of one who does not follow Islam, referred to as an infidel or a "kafir":
"Such a man ... will spread confusion and disorder on the earth," the book says. "He will, without the least compunction, shed blood, violate other men's rights, be cruel to them, and create disorder and destruction in the world. His perverted thoughts and ambitions, his blurred vision and disturbed scale of values, and his evil-spelling activities would make life bitter for him and for all around him."
"It was obvious that he intended to make sure I understood that I was a kafir," said Harding, who was forbidden from voicing any objections or saying anything negative about Islam or its prophet, Muhammad.
Harding, who had been prevented from speaking publicly about his case under a gag order, told WorldNetDaily: "He said he was my supervisor, and if I didn't follow what he said, he would send me back to jail."
Harding, 49, has suffered four heart attacks since 1997 and is unable to work in his cabinet-making trade because of his poor health. Yet he must travel three-hours to the Islamic Society of North America to complete his sentence. His attorney has entered a plea based on humanitarian grounds, due to her client's poor health, to allow him to complete his sentence at an Islam Center closer to his home. Isn't that nice? Perhaps, if he's lucky, he can be indoctrinated closer to home.
And speaking of indoctrination, thanks to the city council in Hamtramck, that shrill siren from Muslim mosques is now blasted five times a day just outside of Detroit. Whether your child is sleeping or you're on an important call, for about 15 minutes every day it's going to sound like a tornado drill outside your suburban Detroit home or business beginning at 6 a.m. until 10 p.m. so the Muslims will know when to pray. But if you were to ring church bells – which typically play music for two minutes once a week – in a Muslim country, you could be shot.
California 'hate crimes' law – pro-lifers automatic suspects
"Hate crimes" bill, SB 1234, was signed into law by California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger Sept. 22, 2004. SB 1234 creates a new hate-crime training requirement for law enforcement called "multimission criminal extremism." In addition to those categories already considered for special punishment under the term "hate crimes," the new multimission criminal extremism training adds "anti-reproductive-rights crimes."
That means if you are pro-life, you are an automatic suspect, and law enforcement is being specially trained on how to handle you. I wonder what that special "multimission criminal extremism" trains officers to look for. "Anti-reproductive-rights" T-shirts? Those who've passed "anti-reproductive rights" laws? Those who've debated the "anti-reproductive-rights" position? If I lived in California, I have a feeling my picture would be found at the local post office. If you think killing children is wrong, they're training people against you, too.
This law also expands "crimes" to include "speech" interpreted as "threats, intimidation and coercion." As long as a "victim" claims the speech makes them "feel" "intimidated," violators will be liable to penalties of $10,000-$25,000 and a year in jail.
"[And] any person who says they are 'fearful' because someone has said homosexuality is wrong could have the speaker arrested and jailed," according to James Hartline, California pro-family activist.
This will be used to criminalize expressions of biblical truth about homosexuality as "hate speech" and could very well target not just organizations who disagree with homosexuality, but Christian bookstores that carry books like "The Criminalization of Christianity" or another book already ruled to contain "intimidating" beliefs: the Bible.
I agree with James Hartline who was quoted saying: "This is the worst bill ever put before the California Legislature – and that's saying a lot."
And now it's about to go federal: the "hate crimes" bill in Congress will pave the way for the very same thing. If you are for "hate crimes" legislation, you are also for the persecution of Christians. It's a package deal. There is no longer any doubt; that's exactly where it leads. Just ask Arlene Elshinnawy and Lynda Beckman.
If we are to stop this freight train aimed at our freedom from passing in Congress, we must work together and speak in a unified voice. Faith2Action and the Christian Interactive Network have reserved the website: www.StopHateCrimesNow.com that features Arlene and Lynda's stories in two 30-second television ads that you can help air. One hundred percent of donations will go toward airtime. With your help, we will place these commercials on cable news like Fox, CNN and MSNBC and earn additional media elsewhere. And if your organization is willing to link to www.StopHateCrimesNow.com , you will keep all your names and all new names generated. But most importantly, by sounding the alarm together, we have a chance of stopping it.
If the "hate crimes" bill or ENDA is passed by Congress, we are ready for Phase 2: sending veto pens to the president with individualized messages urging a veto.
One thing's for sure, if you value your freedom, you need to use it now. Yes, you have the right to remain silent, but if you use it very much longer, those are precisely the words you, your pastor, business owner or grandmother will hear before seeing the inside of a prison cell.
Those who make peaceful REVOLUTION impossible will make violent REVOLUTION inevitable.
- John F. Kennedy
Shut Down The Federal Reserve: Save America!
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/AFTF_P_1/
†With God all things are possible†
I would not say,
a person was not saved for reading different versions.
Only addresses the root of all issues.
At our 4 letter word (jobs), we exist on exact exchange of information.
Be it a grocer-returning exact change, or a labeled product containing the exact ingredients as labeled.
Or a lawyer preparing exact testimonies for a trial.
Or a contractor or insurance adjustor getting exact damage done, and or needed to be rebuilt for restoration.
The earths rotation is exactly as God would have it exist presently, if the slightest degree only was off one direction or the other we could freeze or burn to a crisp.
We live in a universe intrinsic to absolutes.
We are able to manipulate laws, yes. But laws remain the same until consensus/authority deems otherwise.
Since all bornagain believers do agree that the Word of God is authorized by the Holy Spirit- we know it to be exact.
Like the little blind girl in the previous story told, we all see through a glass dimly.
Our minds would flip if we could even see regularly the dimensions in which the spirit realm lies in.
I am thankful that God looks after us AS A LITTLE CHILD, IN NEED OF HIS PROVISION, ALWAYS.
Godbless everyone seeking the Lord, and those that Jesus is tenderly beckoning to Him, as well. (whosoever)
Just part- of the body of Christ. =)
PSALMS 119- the whole chapter*
lol
tell my creditors that. lol =]
Lord willing, I can get out of debt.
AMEN.
Talk later I hope,
AV1611.COM
or any search engine will bring up diverse opinions , layouts of differing/ subtle changes.
Off to work.
I pray this conversation IS FRUITFUL. Amen.
Correct.
The last things you mentioned is the bottom line.
The intent of the NIV, IMO, was to make the Bible more understandable in todays language, not a Satanic purpose to turn us away from Christ and the Holy Trinity. But there is nothing I can say that will change some peoples mind in that area.
With that being said, that is my take.
I have been born again for 20 years now, and still have so much to learn, but the important thing is I am saved, by His Grace, not by me (Ephesians 2:8-9)
Have a good one brother
==============================================AMEN============
Good morning btw, My response to the above is this.
Here is the thing: we enjoy talking on NON christian boards about JESUS CHRIST.
It is in no way demeaning to the body of Christ to talk about the differing BIBLE VERSIONS.
FACTS ARE SELF EVIDENT. Things are so, and are not-of course.
I have personally been studying this ASPECT of Christianity (the teaching of Jesus Christ) and the differences in vesions.
----------------------
I think that we as believers are able to discuss matters OF Christianity.
We have the Holy Spirit inside, and so have something different about us then a non believer. Therefore allowing each other to fully discuss issues of that matter.
BTW- if I was a NON believer, I would certainly use the division of the body of Christ, and the INCONISTANCY of what we are *supposed to learn from.
ANOTHERWORDS: IJOHN5:7 THESE 3 ARE 1
WHAT 3? Muh/Buddha/J.Smith?
Luke 4:4 Man can really live on bread.
ok? what about BY EVERY WORD OF GOD?
*Briboy-since you responded here, remember all that "liberal" wording that was deleted....
same thing here.
We as LONG TIME,and/or Maturing Believers are made to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
A good doctor will try and learn all he can, in hopes that one day the valuable information can help SAVE someone else.
-----------------------
Tell you what my friend, and ANYONE OUT THERE....
STUDY THIS ISSUE ON YOUR OWN.
SPEND AS MUCH TIME RESEARCHING THE *DIFFERENCES IN THE (NEW) VERSIONS, AS TO THE KING JAMES BIBLE.
GIVING = TIME TO WHAT WOULD BE PUT INTO STOCKS.
It will be emperical the revelation one will find, and the spiritual reboot that comes with it.
Jesus himself told us that FEW will enter the narrow road to heaven, and many the broad road that leads to distruction.
For this reason alone (I) have used that as a WARNING WARNING alert (in my own walk)
Going to work, love you all out there. Be blessed.
Hi MrSparex,
I recall you are for the KJ correct?
Anyways....
Logic alone will dicipher this is sybolic.
Who was speaking when (he) said THIS IS MY....
1)JESUS.
2)IS HE REAL OR NOT? YES, HE EXISTS.
We would have to call Jesus only a spirit if....we were to believe that we were to digest his flesh and blood.
Jesus spoke in parables etc, so man would have to think what he was saying. Somethings appear evasive, and yet- as a whole, scripture can be understood 99% of the time without any difficulty.
The average word is around 5 letters I recall. A 3rd grade or so level.
btw,
God is more pleased when you are reading and seeking Jesus through the NIV, then he could ever be of me, or any other person that used a KJV *arrogantly, allowing the letter of the law to kill rather then reveal the cure-ROMANS 1:16-17
Again, it is a heart issue. I want the HolySpirit's heart(God's)
AS POURED OUT IN *HIS WORD. IS ALL. =]
Goodnight, my friend.
Briboy.
Hi Bri,
tell ya what with the 2 of us we can have some lively conversations alone! =) lol
We do understand one another though.
This I am grateful for.
you notice that question was addressed to the board, so I am pleased that you were interested in posting a follow up concerning the topic of the NIV.
-------------
I have 0 cuams, i think thats how its spelled? (lol)
with a person using it, or their church.
except for the NIV itself.
-------------
AS STATED, I OWN A PARALLEL BIBLE I USE WHEN GOING TO CHURCH.
IT CONTAINS the KJ,NKJ,NLT, and the NIV.
IF....I was just speaking to be heard with no point. Id be a MORON! LOL , ya know. =]
so....thats not the case.
The board is called THE BIBLE, so I feel led to talk about that very issue.
Kinda like if there is red/yellow/green lights.
we all know bad stuff-red
and good- green.
its that middle of the road yellow, that can get people caught in a perdicament. Sometimes...... we can scoot on by, and other times we get hit, or hit another person.
And so it is with scripture.
I do not want to know enough scripture- just to be dangerous.
SCRIPTURE CHOOSES NO SIDES. IT IS SELF EVIDENT, AND EXACT.
Like the colored signs. http://www.wordsoftruth.net/NIV2002.htm
**link provided earlier for COMPARISON.
**link provided earlier for COMPARISON.
**link pro.....
[not all opinion of link is correct, however REFERENCES are self evident- simply by opening up a KJ/ NIV bible and *comparing.]
anyways...Im tiredddddd bro. Going to bed alright =P !!
woah. Be blessed 2 =)
Free moral agents.
Most churches across the U.S.A. do infact use NON-KJ bibles.
One question.
Do you feel there is a "great revival" nowadays with all these "new versions" coming out....or a great falling away [Thess] and departing of the faith? (once delivered unto the saints) [Jude]
I know there has been a transition away from Holiness, and more on outcome based religion. Not of the Spirit, but of relativeness of truth, and seeker friendly, non abrasive, too stirring of preaching behind the pulpits for the most part.
You personally have mentioned genuine effort to protest against those meaning to cause harm to others.
I am only doing the same here.
If my statements made, are of no veracity, then of course this all would be rubbish. Foolishness and discord infact among the bretheren.
However, this is not the case.
For this reason, am I glad?
On the contrary my friend.
Would it be, that I was sore mistaken- I then could recant at the notion that in todays society we see the sins of REVELATION 21:8 being OKd by the "church" itself.
This is wickedness. Furthermore it is a DIS-grace on grace.
Grace is: but the vehicle is which one can go to obtain 4giveness of our wicked doings only, through the mercy of God extended to mankind through the precious and redemptive blood of Jesus Christ.
Grace is not: An ever sacrificed sin payment to endulge/ and or even carry on a single (yes- one single) act of Antichristian ways, in opposition of the Father and his commandments given to us through the Holy Spirit unto us.
==============
For example:
XKEM.
A manufacturer of a sicklecell anemia drug.
Conduct experiments one after the other, until finally at last the know without a doubt that "their cure" call it, is the best thing available for mankind.
Alright, so.....they publish an instruction manual with the provided cure together.
(We could relate that spiritually to the HolySpirit/Word of God) that which is needed TOGETHER to gain adequate understanding for the full benefits available of such "cure".
ok, so.....
One day a practicioner decides/realizes that he cannot make any money on this patented cure (bible) so, he must REpackage the "cure" first, before redistributing it UNDER a NEW, but now somewhat altered substance.
Say..... the lifespan of the remedey is cutshort.
Lets say.... we now have major side effects because of "slight changes" to the original formula.
Say...people infact, start to slowly be poisoned by the ever so subtle changes in the "cure", and now are SO CONFUSED that they trusted the physician, but didnt realize that a counterfeit was quitely introduced (fake cure).
The medicine appeared to look like the original.
And even have temporary relief to problems.
However....DEEEEP inside, something was stirring. Something that had not been dealt with before. Something unnatural,manmade was slowly bleeding the life out of its victims from within. Causing their senses to be dulled and thus- UNAWARE, what was really taking place until...
well, that is the whole point.
For example XKEM, has the genuine thing to help people. Then a knockoff, is not needed.
But you see, as some groups in this world of ours would suppress the "truth" the medicine contains, they would rather see people suffer under a false presumption (suppress the truth) and have people UNAWARE that there is the genuine article out there-that works.
Psalms 119
The longest chapter in the bible.
Its contents? It describes the wonderful exquisiteness of THEE Word of God.
You see-
Others "writings" (not bibles),
are like a sparkling light that a child loves to see, watch, and enjoy....but what they do not realize is that: this shinning light is connected to a stick of dynamite.
Unless the hands of awareness are brought into this circumstance transpiring, the outcome based thrills will be... well, less then rewarding. The soon become disfiguring to the body of Christ, and most of the time-DEADLY.
God has given us a sound mind and spirit in accord with His, that we all can came to the unity of the faith as Paul mentioned. In order for this to take place we need a (singular) firm foundation on which to grow thereby.
I would not yell at new believer enamored by the shining of the newness of life in christ or the exciting teachings set before them, only make aware and attempt to defuse anything that would cause REAL harm.
Jude declares we contend for the faith ONCE DELIVERED unto the saints.
Regardless of other peoples thoughts concerning this matter, I am held accountable of such instruction in light of the clearly labeled warning written along side with the pages of the cure.
For these reasons stated, I look forward to a continuing line with others concerning this vital life saving/threatening subject.
Godbless, and goodnight. =)
Between God's warning that it is better to have a millestone around our neck than to offend (one simple error-causing someone to stumble-be offended falsely) and drowned in the depths of the sea, than to offend one of these little ones.
Or the fact that adding/taking away (anthing) from the pages of scripture could cause us to be REMOVED out of the Lambs book of Life..... you cant get more serious than that.
Topic at hand: upon REexamination at a small list provided previously-concerning the NIV (current version addressed)
it is selfevident of missing verses and the changing of meanings. This is all that has been stated.
*Facts-that are illustrated only, for the purpose of evaluation.
The opportunity to perceive a different view of the situation. FREE MORAL AGENTS, with a choice.
You are very welcome.
Aside from personally having a lot of bibles.......
One of them alone is a parallel bible with 4 versions SIDEbySIDE.
so it is 100% verifiable.
http://www.wordsoftruth.net/NIV2002.htm
Not all this site says is true.
HOWEVER....
THE REFERENCES THEMSELVES- YOU CAN VERIFY JUST BY OPENING UP A BIBLE. NIV/ KJV and *simply compare. =]
Hi terryt,
As a believer we are to test the spirit to see if it is of God. As your shovel has proven to be effective so far. =]
TRUTH STANDS UP TO ALL INQUERY.
The beauty of FREEWILL is that...we have it, to make decisions.
Be blessed as the truth is sought-IN GODS WORD (KJV). =]
BTW...Did you know that the KING JAMES BIBLE IS THE ONLY ONE *WITHOUT-A COPYWRITE ??? Cant make money on it, or dont have to ask the "printer" permisssion. Interesting isnt it.
==============below, words for thought====================
*For the record, ALL versions after the KJ are as such below over all. (av1611.com)
THE NIV TAKES AWAY FROM WHO CHRIST IS (niv-is just 1 example)
TAKES AWAY “…GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH…”
NIV 1 Timothy 3:16 "Beyond all question, the mystery of
"in a body"(Ghandi, J.Smith?)
godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory."
THE NIV MAKES CHRIST UNEQUAL WITH GOD
NIV Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped"
JOSEPH WAS NOT CHRIST FATHER (See JOHN 3:16)
NIV Luke 2:33 "The child's father and mother marveled at what was said about him."
NIV Luke 2:43 "After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it."
ONE AND ONLY???? (SEE LUKE 3:38, JOB 1:6, PHILIPPIANS 2:15 AND I JOHN 3:2 IN THE KJV)
NIV John 1:14 "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."
ONE AND ONLY????
NIV John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known."
ONE AND ONLY AS WELL AS FAITH ALONE?????????
NIV John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
(SEE JAMES 2:19-26)
THE NIV TAKES AWAY FROM SOME OF THOSE THAT WORSHIPPED CHRIST (Compare the following with the KJV or NKJV and see that the word worship is removed).
NIV Matthew 8:2 "A man with leprosy came and knelt before him and said, "Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean."
NIV Matthew 9:18 "While he was saying this, a ruler came and knelt before him and said, "My daughter has just died. But come and put your hand on her, and she will live."
NIV Matthew 15:25 "The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said."
NIV Matthew 18:26 "The servant fell on his knees before him. `Be patient with me,' he begged, `and I will pay back everything."
NIV Matthew 20:20 "Then the mother of Zebedee's sons came to Jesus with her sons and, kneeling down, asked a favor of him."
NIV Mark 5:6 "When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees in front of him."
NIV Mark 15:19 "Again and again they struck him on the head with a staff and spit on him. Falling on their knees, they paid homage to him."
WHY DOES THE NIV NOT WANT CHRIST WORSHIPED?
Luke 4:6-8 "And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."
THE NIV VIOLATES ADDING AND TAKING FROM THE WORD TERRIBLY!
See: Deuteronomy 4:2, Proverbs 30:6, and Revelations 22:18-19 KJV
Think about this passages as you see how much the NIV takes away Luke 8:12 "Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved."
(Notice the numbering...)
NIV Matthew 18:10-12
10. "See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.
12. "What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?
NIV Acts 8:36-38
36. As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?"
38. And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.
NIV Matthew 17:20-22
20. He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, `Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you. "
22. When they came together in Galilee, he said to them, "The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men.
NIV Matthew 18:10-12
10. "See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.
12. "What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?
NIV Matthew 23:13-15
13. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
NIV Mark 7:15-17
15. Nothing outside a man can make him `unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him `unclean.' "
17. After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable.
NIV Mark 9:43-47
43. If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
45. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.
47. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,
NIV Mark 11:25-27
25. And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins. "
27. They arrived again in Jerusalem, and while Jesus was walking in the temple courts, the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders came to him.
NIV Mark 15:27-29
27. They crucified two robbers with him, one on his right and one on his left.
29. Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads and saying, "So! You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days,
NIV Mark 16:9
9. [[The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20.]]
NIV Luke 17:35-37
35. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left. "
37. "Where, Lord?" they asked. He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."
NIV Luke 23:16-18
16. Therefore, I will punish him and then release him. "
18. With one voice they cried out, "Away with this man! Release Barabbas to us!"
NIV John 5:3-5
3. Here a great number of disabled people used to lie--the blind, the lame, the paralyzed.
5. One who was there had been an invalid for thirty-eight years.
NIV Acts 8:36-38
36. As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?"
38. And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.
NIV Acts 15:33-35
33. After spending some time there, they were sent off by the brothers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them.
35. But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.
NIV Acts 24:6-8
6. and even tried to desecrate the temple; so we seized him.
8. By examining him yourself you will be able to learn the truth about all these charges we are bringing against him."
NIV Acts 28:28-30
28. "Therefore I want you to know that God's salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!"
30. For two whole years Paul stayed there in his own rented house and welcomed all who came to see him.
NIV Romans 16:23-25
23. Gaius, whose hospitality I and the whole church here enjoy, sends you his greetings. Erastus, who is the city's director of public works, and our brother Quartus send you their greetings.
25. Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,
NIV John 7:52
[[The earliest and most reliable manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53-8:11.]]
THERE GOES THE THREE THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN
NIV 1 John 5:7
7. For there are three that testify:
PURE CONTRADICTION AND IGNORANCE
(The following quoted material is from another other of an unknown name)
“COLOSSIANS 1:14: The KJB reads, "In whom we have redemption THROUGH HIS BLOOD, even the forgiveness of sins:" The NIV reads, "In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins."
The NIV rips out the precious words "THROUGH HIS BLOOD"! Friend, redemption is ONLY "THROUGH HIS BLOOD". Hebrews 9:22, reads, ". . . without shedding of BLOOD is no remission." That old song says, "What can wash away my sins, NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS!"
The NIV perverts Mark 1:2,3 into a LIE! The NIV reads "It is written in Isaiah the prophet: I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way-a voice of one calling in the desert, Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him." It is NOT written in Isaiah! "I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way" - is found in Malachi 3:1! The King James correctly reads: "As it is written in the PROPHETS, . . ." A better translation! Easier to read - BY A LIE!
Psalms 119:160 says, "Thy word is TRUE. . ." John 17:17 says, ". . . thy word is TRUTH." Titus 1:2 clearly says, ". . . God that CANNOT LIE" How could the God of Titus 1:2 be the God of Mark 1:2,3 in the NIV!? IT IS IMPOSSIBLE! For Hebrews 6:18 clearly declares, ". . . it was IMPOSSIBLE for God to LIE" It is impossible for the LIES in the NIV to be the words of GOD! Whose words are they? I'll give you a hint - Jesus Christ calls him "A LIAR, and the father of it" in John 8:44!
The NIV again openly LIES in 2 Samuel 21:19, ". . . Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod." What 8-year-old doesn't know that David killed Goliath?
Romans 1:18-32 describes the "path to perversion" and verse 25, describes their decline, "Who changed the TRUTH of God into a LIE. . ."! Not surprisingly, The NIV perverts Romans 1:25 from "CHANGED the truth of God INTO a lie" to "EXCHANGED the truth of God FOR a lie"!
Don't look for the "mercyseat" in the NIV - GONE!
Don't look for "Jehovah" in the NIV - GONE!
Don't look for the "Godhead" in the NIV - GONE!
The NIV removes wonderful Bible "terms" like remission, regeneration, impute, propitiation, new testament and many others!
Here's a small (very small) sampling of words removed in the NIV!
Matt. 6:13, "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen."
Matt. 15:8, "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth"
Matt. 19:9, "and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."
Matt. 20:7, "and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive."
Matt. 20:16, "for many be called, but few chosen."
Matt. 20:22, "and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with"
Matt. 25:13, "wherein the Son of Man cometh."
Matt. 27:35, "that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet They parted my garments among them and upon my vesture did they cast lots"
Mark 6:11, "Verily I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."
Mark 10:21, "take up the cross."
Luke 1:28, "blessed art thou among women"
Luke 4:4, "but by every word of God"
Luke 4:8, "get thee behind me Satan"
Luke 4:18, "he hath sent me to heal the broken hearted"
Luke 11:2-4, "Our ... which art in ... Thy will be done, as in heaven so in earth... but deliver us from evil"
John 1:27, "is preferred before me"
John 3:13, "which is in heaven"
John 3:15, "should not perish"
John 11:41, "from the place where the dead was laid"
John 16:16, "because I go to the Father"
Acts 10:6, "he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do"
Acts 15:18, "Known unto God are all his works"
Acts 20:24, "But none of these things move me"
Acts 23:9, "let us not fight against God"
Rom. 8:1, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit"
Rom. 13:9, "Thou shalt not bear false witness"
I Cor. 6:20, "and in your spirit which are God's"
I Cor. 11:24; "Take eat... broken"
II Cor. 10:4, "but mighty through God"
Gal. 3:1, "that you should not obey the truth"
Eph. 5:30, "of his flesh, and of his bones"
Phil. 3:16, "let us mind the same thing"
I Tim. 6:5, "from such wthdraw thyself"
Heb. 7:21, "after the order of Melchisedec"
I Pet. 1:22, "through the Spirit"
I Pet. 4:14, "on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified"
I John 4:3, "Christ is come in the flesh"
I John 5:13, "and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God"
Rev. 1:11, "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last"
Rev. 5:14, "him that liveth for ever and ever"
Rev. 14:5, "before the throne of God"
Rev. 21:24, "of them which are saved"
Jesus Christ says, in Luke 4:4, ". . . It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD of God." But not according to the NIV! In fact, the NIV even "TAKETH AWAY" the last half of Luke 4:4 - "BUT BY EVERY WORD OF GOD"! And Jesus Christ was quoting Deuteronomy 8:3 to Satan! Does the NIV PERversion seriously think the Lord Jesus Christ does NOT know Duet. 8:3??? “
Many other things can be said to discourage the use of the NIV. There are many Scholars’ that could point out errors as well. This work above shows how you can find many things with such little work!
If you are using the NIV consider destroying it or using it for purposes other than teaching and bible study unless you are using it as a tenth or eleventh selection choice in personal studies. Be honest with the above information!
P.S.. excel,
the name of this board is BIBLE.
I THINK IT IS RATIONAL, AND IMPORTANT TO BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT-THE BIBLE, LITERALLY. =] GODBLESS, a friend.
Now that is enthusiam terryt! =]
-------------------
P.S..
excel, nice post.
Hi mig, and all...
Hope you are well today.
Best to you and yours, and trading this week as well.
BTW...
All this 2 way conversation IS PRODUCTIVE.
It shows openmindedness and willingness on both parts to listen and learn more each day.
It also encourages one another to open up the bible for themselves and see what God is waiting to reveal for us. =]
Movin on up in the Active Boards.
Which means....those that are not aware of this board that MIG started, have an opportunity to post their thoughts and talk with people that care not only about physcially/financial issues alone. But matters of the heart and that which is ETERNAL!
*Hi mig. Godbless all,as we seek HIM.
=] AMEN.
Hello again Happydog
roooooof!
so, lets see here.
Also WE DO NOT KNOW the time frame between verse 1 and 2. It could have been billions of years. The second part of verse 2 shows the Spirit -qoute.
------------
my responses, have been all in regard to your statement is all.
I have been using scripture to reveal WHY we CAN AND DO KNOW,
that it was only 6 literal 24 hour days.
Only my point.
2ndary point then would be this:
if we as believers lack reliabilty in scripture, how could be attempt to witness to others using the bible, if we feel it has error in it?
We tell others to go by faith....but in what?
the bible? no. We both know this.
It is in everyday events, and that the word of God stands firm and we can stand upon it, in storms and it will not give way to falseness of anykind.
anyways my friend, I do look at things a little differently than others at times. I try to see WHAT HAPPENS WHEN AN UNBELIEVER takes the comments made by the yous, and I's and either:
1) walks away from the Lord and His WORD
2) or, To the Lord and His Word.
In love,
You and I can't seem to understand each other. I wrote:
IF it did, I can only believe that Satan had something to do with it. Verse 2 does not sound like something that God created. Also we do not know the time frame between verse 1 and 2.-qoute.
I must have missed something then, I can admit.
Because I WOULDNT TRY AND OPEN DOUBT FOR NON-BELIEVERS TO FIND FAULT IN THE BIBLE.
(On that logical premise, i am certain you agree~! =)
Can you explain why God created the earth and then in verse 2, it was without form, void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep? -quote.
Happy,
I might be able to, but that response requires the span of the pages of the bible.
God builds his reasons upon one another (scipture).
We could talk of the heavens being stretchhhhhhhhed across
and how one day God will role them up, as a scroll.
We could talk about the waters above the waters(firmament)
and the dry land appearing.
These are ALL things you nor I nor any person can attest to, except Jesus the Christ.
He was there, he was part of the CREATION PROCESS. the trinity.
Before Abraham was, I AM-Jesus. Gen 1:26, let US make.... etc.
Make since at all??
the mysteries of God are as such.
To leave awwwwwww at his handywork.
Here is the issue.
WHEN A PERSON DENOUNCES THE WORD 4 WORD TESTIMONY of the very beginning of THIER TESTIMONTY.......why believe the rest of the book???? I let you think about that.
HATH GOD SAID? -ummmmmm, thats satans numero uno LIE.
WHICH CAUSED MANKIND IN THE FIRST PLACE TO REJECT (GODS WORD) AND BE SEPERATED FROM HIM.
ALL FOR THE MOMENT. Keep on open line of communication would
ya. =]
believe that something catastrophic MAY have happened during this first part of verse 2. If it did, I can only believe that Satan had something to do with it. Verse 2 does not sound like something that God created. Also we do not know the time frame between verse 1 and 2. It could have been billions of years. The second part of verse 2 shows the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And then creation began.
I am the first to admit that I do not know what happened, only God does. But I do not think it wrong to ponder these things. -quote.
Hi happy.....you SAID that Satan DID have something to do with it (creation factor and or timeframe).
IMPOSSIBLE.
Contextually speaking alone-AND GOD SAID HE SAW *ALL THAT HE MADE AND BEHOLD IT WAS *VERY GOOD.
SO....satan/the fall was not in the void/gap.
This is to say that SIN entered in the world BEFORE ADAM SINNED. NO WAY.
God had to create everything first...before Man could "name them anyways" and......everything God created was GOOD.
the timeframe factor 6 days, 7=week, literal.
I compared that with EXODUS 20 WHEN *GOD DECLARES THAT THE HEAVEN/EARTH WAS MADE IN COMPLETE, IN 6 DAYS, AND HE RESTING ON THE 7TH.
I am saying why??? believe NOT in the CREATION account
but believe the LAWS given to the creation?? Not logical.
I what I am saying.
The # 12 continued,
When I started really studying the bible, I fell in love with it, and with the author as well.
There is an infinite (eternal literally) well spring of knowledge within the pages of the KJBIBLE.
here is just one example mathimatically for 12
Twelve is a perfect number, signifying perfection of government, or of governmental perfection. It is found as a multiple in all that has to do with rule. The sun which "rules" the day, and the moon and stars which "govern" the night, do so by their passage through the twelve signs of the Zodiac which completes the great circle of the heavens of 360 (12 x 30) degrees or divisions, and thus govern the year.
Twelve is the product of 3 (the perfectly Divine and heavenly number) and 4 (the earthly, the number of what is material and organic).
While seven is composed of 3 added to 4, twelve is 3 multiplied by 4, and hence denotes that which can scarcely be explained in words, but which the spiritual perception can at once appreciate, viz., organization, the products denoting production and multiplication and increase of all that is contained in the two numbers separately. The 4 is generally prominently seen in the twelve.
Within all KNOWN concepts of human perception, the bible contains the answers.
Be it physically in words, or spiritually through the blood of Jesus/RESURRECTION/the Holy Ghost, Spirit given for man-which the Lord calls THE COMFORTER.
BE BLESSED! =]