2018 Only Jesus Saves!!
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unity occurs 3 times in 3 verses:
Psa 133:1 [[A Song of degrees of David.]] Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
unity occurs 3 times in 3 verses:
Psa 133:1 [[A Song of degrees of David.]] Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That is true.
We are, all in the same mix together.
As one faith, one body- of the bride of Christ.
Remember....... ETERNITY.
With that thought in mind.......
YOU and I will ETERNALLY!!!!!! be best buds you could say, in heaven quite possibly??!!! lol, ya know! =]
Take care, excel.
If you want to post here knowing NIV will be used and stop your campaign for KJ then I'm glad to have you.-quote.
-----------
Sounds alright.
BTW....I do not have a campaign for that version. I have a desire for TRUTH, and leading people to the Lord.
Notice.....
Nothing was metioned about that subject. =]
You do see that.
-----------------------
I agree, in that posting from either version is at least fair for others.
I dont mind equal time.
I think all my comments have been relevent though.
I believe I can grow here, I am open and listen to others.
I believe you can be/ are the same way.
Which is evidence of a teachable spirit, which I recall was just posted recently concerning that matter.
Again, Stayblessed and be open for the Lords guidance continually as I and we all need to be.
Btw...
We've seen in the past the fruit of 2 or more believers coming together in agreement for LOST SOULS. (truth).
Encouraging the unbeliever to question, events in their life that has brought them to the point of not following Jesus.
How through the pages of scripture a man/woman can come to know what the Lord God desires for his creation. Through the illumination of course, by God's spirit, the Holy Spirit.
----------
I try to be an active believer such as yourself.
Last month, I used to post some interesting topics, and the..your board was lit up like wild, AMEN.
----------
It is only by the stirring of the pot, that the ingredients of faith hidden deep deep down, can slowly and steady rise to the surface and display a sweet savour pleasant to our Lord. For His glory.
Stay blessed! *^]
lol
That was actually pretty funny ! =]
After reading story I have some questions for you.
Imo Jesus would have never called anyone waiting to talk to the man.-quote.
---------------------
It is a very interesting real life event in deed excel.
I would just about agree with your view on the situation SPIRITUALLY, overall.
Since he was bold enough to confront him in the heat of the moment, a different approach couldve been used for the thief.
Although, we dont know...if God prevented the pastor from being assaulted physically on the second visit or not.
---------------------
excel,
Its kinda like you and I.
When you feel uncomfortable about a conversation, you throw up your defenses and "warn me" you dont want to talk any further.
Ya, you observe there is something wrong with "me", but instead of a social dialogue, you choose to withdraw yourself.
---------------------
** I do enjoy the posts you put up.
I pray....you take them to heart as well.
Simply put: desiring for yourself, that which you would like to see in others.
Godbless.
-One that is not afraid to be open/honest and direct, in sincerity.
THOUGH OFTEN TIMES, MISUNDERSTOOD.
ABSOLUTES VS. RELATIVISM
The art of humanism in today's world
Each person and culture has developed their own definition of what right or wrong is. This theory is morally unacceptable because it implies an act can be right for someone even if it is cruel, hateful or harmful. Culture or ones personal preference does not dictate what is right or wrong. Neither can religions, for each area may have its own religion that came down to them from previous generations. There must be a greater standard, one that is more correct and more sure for us to live by. Otherwise we are left to invent our own opinions that will change in time because of our culture.
The definition of Relative truth- Truth that is true at only one time and at one place. It's true to some people and not to others. It's true now but it may not have been true in the past and it may not be again in the future, it's always subject to change. It is also subject to perspective of people
The definition of absolute truth-Whatever is true at one time and at one place is true at all time's and at all places. What is true for one person is true for all person's. Truth is true whether we believe it or not. Truth is discovered or it is revealed, it is not invented by a culture or by religious men.
There are absolutes, all of reality proves this. What we find is that the Christian world view is the most consistent with reality. There is truth and there is falsehood one cannot find what they are wrong in unless they have an ultimate standard. God believes in objective truth because he is that standard. The difference is that as Christians we believe God determines what is true and right which he has instructed in the Bible. Those who hold to the relative position believe man does and he can change as he wills.
EX: of absolutes - we all need air to breathe, to live we all need food and water. this is true for all people everywhere at all times. Gravity works the same everywhere here on the planet.
EX: one cannot be dry and wet at the same time. Something cannot be true and not true at the same time, one must be false or both, but both cannot be true. One cannot go forward and backward at the same time. One cannot live in the past and the future at the same time. Time goes forward it cannot go backward. No one is getting younger instead of older. You cannot have two Mts. Without a valley. You cannot have a stick with one end. You cannot be asleep and awake at the same time.
EX: George Washington was our first president but he no longer is. His being the first president of the US was true for all time and for all people in all places. There will never be a place at any time this is not true. He can never be the 20th president, So it is an absolute truth but for his time.
Believing something that is not true.
What is true for one person is true for all people-If the ancients people believed the earth was flat it is true for all men at all times and places. It will never be false that ancient man believed the earth was flat. It may not actually be true that the earth is flat, but it is true they believed this. So this is truth for their time, but that is not a description of absolute truth. If one only believes it to be true then they are not making a truth claim. Belief statements are not truth statements, one is simply declaring their belief. Such as If someone said I can fly. To you that belief may be true, but not the statement itself. Truth is to be a justifiable belief. It needs to be proven at least logically and agree with reality.
A religious ex. God cannot exist and not exist at the same time. Only one of these views is true, because we are dealing with reality. They are contradictory and the world should be consistent with reality.
Relativism cannot be true- claims of relativism depend on which vantage point the observer stands from. Relativism cannot be true- claims of relativism depend on which vantage point the observer stands from. If your standing on the right side or the left side it all becomes the perspective of the viewer. One could actually say an event did not occur from their vantage point while others experienced it.
If relativism were true then the universe could contain actual contradictory conditions and truths, which is impossible. Opposites cannot both be true, its contradictory and denies the laws of non contradiction. This law is undeniable, you can’t not use it without using it and you can’t deny it without using it, so its literally undeniable. Contradictions both cannot be true at the same time so the relative view is false. Ex. If relativism is true than to an atheist God does not exist, but to a believer he also does exist. Opposites cannot both be true. If relativism is true then nothing could be true. Why? For one cannot claim that it is an absolute truth, that something is only relative truth for him. This is like saying I’m absolutely certain everything is relative. Then everything isn’t relative if he is absolutely certain. But if everything is relative to each different person, to this one , and that one , ad infinitum, then its not true at all and everyone is believing falsehood. If relativism were true you can never be mistaken or wrong or learn anything. Because its true to me at that time and it may not be another time , by my own standard even if I’m wrong its true. You can only find out what is wrong if something is true. There has to be a ultimate standard of measure that is truth.
The problem lies in the root of relativism, that there is no absolute truth.
EX: 2 + 2= 4. But what if someone told you it was 5, 2 +2 always equals 4, someone comes along and says it's now 5. You can change it, but it would not be consistent to truth and reality. For something to be true it must be true before, true now, and true in the future. Truth does not change . Because it's absolute , especially when it comes to God. What if you learned 2 + 2 your whole life were 5 does that make it true? Or were you taught falsely. For one to learn their must be truth, absolutes or all education is a farce. You’d be ever learning and not coming to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim3:7) So if you took 10 years of college education at the end you’d be right back where you started and the no better for it. Because what you knew when you started, which was a state of ignorance on the subjects you were going to become educated on, 10 years later did not progress you in the pursuit of learning.
The Greek philosopher Protagoras said "man is the measure of all things." This means each person can decide there own standard for right and wrong living. What is morally right for me, may be wrong for another. this is the essence of relativism.
This means cruelty and hate can be right for someone to practice. If society practiced this we would self destruct. Our culture has community values that are shared to protect harm to others.
If all truth is relative than would you feel safe to let your child play with a child molester since that is his truth. Would you allow someone who does human sacrifices befriend your family? Obviously relative truth can sometimes be harmful.
How do we find out if what we believe is relative or absolute?
There are standards we all use each and every day in science, mathematics. We calculate a space shots by using mathematics . In construction we measure what we cut so it will fit the blueprints of what is being built. All these transfer over into different languages and cultures but we share it as universal. These are not absolute truths since we can change them and still share together the same measurements but they are a standard that we all operate in. But their are other laws if violated have drastic consequences. It doesn't matter what country your in or what race you are or what religion you practice if you fall off a building you will hit the ground the same. So gravity is a universal principle for man. the same would be for deep sea pressure. if you go down to quick or too far you get the bends. These are natural laws we are to respect or we can be see drastic results. Nature can't be changed ,like mathematics it is constant adhering to laws because nature was made by the creator.
We can’t test truth by our feelings. You can’t feel error, but you can use your mind to think truth. You cannot distinguish good and evil by your feelings because evil (sin) feels good.
Truth is not the opposite of falsehood it is the absence of falsehood. Evil is not just the opposite of good, it is the absence of good. To decide that something is evil means one must have a standard of truth. Whether it is the Bibles or their own they are living by someone's standards.
Our society has become self deciding what is good, humanism is trying to do what is right without God in the equation. The humanist doesn't need religion because he is confident that the heart of man is basically good. Even though humanism as an "ism" shares many common practical values with Christianity (ethics?), but the humanistic concept of "good" is on a collision course with Jesus' view of "good." The humanist's standard of goodness must be low enough for the average person to be able to meet it requirements consistently. God's standard of goodness is perfection. This is why a humanist must make his own standard otherwise he will be unable to meet it. And of course that can all change in a whim. Although humanism can make the world better in some respects its standards still are relative to the culture and time. For example many things were given in the past as cures for sicknesses would be rejected today as harmful. But at the time it was with good intentions. So humanism has no cure for evil nor can it explain it. Christ who is God and the ultimate good is the only answer.
"The heart is deceitfully wicked,( incurably sick). (Jer. 17:9). God the creator is the only one capable of fixing what is broken in man. We need a touch from a divine agency the great physician himself. Their is only one universal remedy to restore our alienation from God and cleanse us from guilt. God has given mankind the blood of Christ as the cure to remove the innate problem of sin. No other religion claims to solve the sin factor because they don't believe it exists, this includes the humanist. Their remedy is education and ethics. I don't believe this is the answer, some of the most depraved people in the world are well educated with Ph.D.s. If one educates a thief, you only increase his capacity to steal, education is not the solution. Neither can we make a sinner look any better with solutions from man. We don't need a cover-up for our falling short, but an uncovering to see our sin that separates us from God.
When we see our sickness and how desperate we are in need of his cleansing from sin. Then we are open to the truth that is found in only one place.
What Jesus does is from the inside out, what man does is from the outside which can never affect our fallen nature inside. Humanism like religion gives us rules and regulations to live by, only Jesus reforms us from the inside.
The choice of Absolutes and Relativism The Eternality of God
Religion or Relationship ? There are no Atheists Evil Ism's
Things God cannot do Speculations to the beginning A Witness to The Gospel
Christ's Miracles There are Too many Hypocrites in church
In Response to all the religions Biblical evidences for science
Christmas A Witness to The Gospel The Jesus seminar Choosing My Religion
© 2006 No portion of this site is to be copied or used unless kept in its original format the way it appears. Articles can be reproduced in portions for ones personal use, any other use is to have the permission of the author first. Thank You.
We would like to hear from you. Please send us an e- mail and let us know how we can be of more help. Our time is valuable just as yours is. Please keep in mind, we only have time to answer sincere inquiries. We will use discretion in answering any letters. Also: we do not accept attachments, so please send the mail viewable.
E -Mail Let Us Reason Ministries administrator@letusreason.org
We thank you for your support in our ministry
ABSOLUTES VS. RELATIVISM
The art of humanism in today's world
Each person and culture has developed their own definition of what right or wrong is. This theory is morally unacceptable because it implies an act can be right for someone even if it is cruel, hateful or harmful. Culture or ones personal preference does not dictate what is right or wrong. Neither can religions, for each area may have its own religion that came down to them from previous generations. There must be a greater standard, one that is more correct and more sure for us to live by. Otherwise we are left to invent our own opinions that will change in time because of our culture.
The definition of Relative truth- Truth that is true at only one time and at one place. It's true to some people and not to others. It's true now but it may not have been true in the past and it may not be again in the future, it's always subject to change. It is also subject to perspective of people
The definition of absolute truth-Whatever is true at one time and at one place is true at all time's and at all places. What is true for one person is true for all person's. Truth is true whether we believe it or not. Truth is discovered or it is revealed, it is not invented by a culture or by religious men.
There are absolutes, all of reality proves this. What we find is that the Christian world view is the most consistent with reality. There is truth and there is falsehood one cannot find what they are wrong in unless they have an ultimate standard. God believes in objective truth because he is that standard. The difference is that as Christians we believe God determines what is true and right which he has instructed in the Bible. Those who hold to the relative position believe man does and he can change as he wills.
EX: of absolutes - we all need air to breathe, to live we all need food and water. this is true for all people everywhere at all times. Gravity works the same everywhere here on the planet.
EX: one cannot be dry and wet at the same time. Something cannot be true and not true at the same time, one must be false or both, but both cannot be true. One cannot go forward and backward at the same time. One cannot live in the past and the future at the same time. Time goes forward it cannot go backward. No one is getting younger instead of older. You cannot have two Mts. Without a valley. You cannot have a stick with one end. You cannot be asleep and awake at the same time.
EX: George Washington was our first president but he no longer is. His being the first president of the US was true for all time and for all people in all places. There will never be a place at any time this is not true. He can never be the 20th president, So it is an absolute truth but for his time.
Believing something that is not true.
What is true for one person is true for all people-If the ancients people believed the earth was flat it is true for all men at all times and places. It will never be false that ancient man believed the earth was flat. It may not actually be true that the earth is flat, but it is true they believed this. So this is truth for their time, but that is not a description of absolute truth. If one only believes it to be true then they are not making a truth claim. Belief statements are not truth statements, one is simply declaring their belief. Such as If someone said I can fly. To you that belief may be true, but not the statement itself. Truth is to be a justifiable belief. It needs to be proven at least logically and agree with reality.
A religious ex. God cannot exist and not exist at the same time. Only one of these views is true, because we are dealing with reality. They are contradictory and the world should be consistent with reality.
Relativism cannot be true- claims of relativism depend on which vantage point the observer stands from. Relativism cannot be true- claims of relativism depend on which vantage point the observer stands from. If your standing on the right side or the left side it all becomes the perspective of the viewer. One could actually say an event did not occur from their vantage point while others experienced it.
If relativism were true then the universe could contain actual contradictory conditions and truths, which is impossible. Opposites cannot both be true, its contradictory and denies the laws of non contradiction. This law is undeniable, you can’t not use it without using it and you can’t deny it without using it, so its literally undeniable. Contradictions both cannot be true at the same time so the relative view is false. Ex. If relativism is true than to an atheist God does not exist, but to a believer he also does exist. Opposites cannot both be true. If relativism is true then nothing could be true. Why? For one cannot claim that it is an absolute truth, that something is only relative truth for him. This is like saying I’m absolutely certain everything is relative. Then everything isn’t relative if he is absolutely certain. But if everything is relative to each different person, to this one , and that one , ad infinitum, then its not true at all and everyone is believing falsehood. If relativism were true you can never be mistaken or wrong or learn anything. Because its true to me at that time and it may not be another time , by my own standard even if I’m wrong its true. You can only find out what is wrong if something is true. There has to be a ultimate standard of measure that is truth.
The problem lies in the root of relativism, that there is no absolute truth.
EX: 2 + 2= 4. But what if someone told you it was 5, 2 +2 always equals 4, someone comes along and says it's now 5. You can change it, but it would not be consistent to truth and reality. For something to be true it must be true before, true now, and true in the future. Truth does not change . Because it's absolute , especially when it comes to God. What if you learned 2 + 2 your whole life were 5 does that make it true? Or were you taught falsely. For one to learn their must be truth, absolutes or all education is a farce. You’d be ever learning and not coming to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim3:7) So if you took 10 years of college education at the end you’d be right back where you started and the no better for it. Because what you knew when you started, which was a state of ignorance on the subjects you were going to become educated on, 10 years later did not progress you in the pursuit of learning.
The Greek philosopher Protagoras said "man is the measure of all things." This means each person can decide there own standard for right and wrong living. What is morally right for me, may be wrong for another. this is the essence of relativism.
This means cruelty and hate can be right for someone to practice. If society practiced this we would self destruct. Our culture has community values that are shared to protect harm to others.
If all truth is relative than would you feel safe to let your child play with a child molester since that is his truth. Would you allow someone who does human sacrifices befriend your family? Obviously relative truth can sometimes be harmful.
How do we find out if what we believe is relative or absolute?
There are standards we all use each and every day in science, mathematics. We calculate a space shots by using mathematics . In construction we measure what we cut so it will fit the blueprints of what is being built. All these transfer over into different languages and cultures but we share it as universal. These are not absolute truths since we can change them and still share together the same measurements but they are a standard that we all operate in. But their are other laws if violated have drastic consequences. It doesn't matter what country your in or what race you are or what religion you practice if you fall off a building you will hit the ground the same. So gravity is a universal principle for man. the same would be for deep sea pressure. if you go down to quick or too far you get the bends. These are natural laws we are to respect or we can be see drastic results. Nature can't be changed ,like mathematics it is constant adhering to laws because nature was made by the creator.
We can’t test truth by our feelings. You can’t feel error, but you can use your mind to think truth. You cannot distinguish good and evil by your feelings because evil (sin) feels good.
Truth is not the opposite of falsehood it is the absence of falsehood. Evil is not just the opposite of good, it is the absence of good. To decide that something is evil means one must have a standard of truth. Whether it is the Bibles or their own they are living by someone's standards.
Our society has become self deciding what is good, humanism is trying to do what is right without God in the equation. The humanist doesn't need religion because he is confident that the heart of man is basically good. Even though humanism as an "ism" shares many common practical values with Christianity (ethics?), but the humanistic concept of "good" is on a collision course with Jesus' view of "good." The humanist's standard of goodness must be low enough for the average person to be able to meet it requirements consistently. God's standard of goodness is perfection. This is why a humanist must make his own standard otherwise he will be unable to meet it. And of course that can all change in a whim. Although humanism can make the world better in some respects its standards still are relative to the culture and time. For example many things were given in the past as cures for sicknesses would be rejected today as harmful. But at the time it was with good intentions. So humanism has no cure for evil nor can it explain it. Christ who is God and the ultimate good is the only answer.
"The heart is deceitfully wicked,( incurably sick). (Jer. 17:9). God the creator is the only one capable of fixing what is broken in man. We need a touch from a divine agency the great physician himself. Their is only one universal remedy to restore our alienation from God and cleanse us from guilt. God has given mankind the blood of Christ as the cure to remove the innate problem of sin. No other religion claims to solve the sin factor because they don't believe it exists, this includes the humanist. Their remedy is education and ethics. I don't believe this is the answer, some of the most depraved people in the world are well educated with Ph.D.s. If one educates a thief, you only increase his capacity to steal, education is not the solution. Neither can we make a sinner look any better with solutions from man. We don't need a cover-up for our falling short, but an uncovering to see our sin that separates us from God.
When we see our sickness and how desperate we are in need of his cleansing from sin. Then we are open to the truth that is found in only one place.
What Jesus does is from the inside out, what man does is from the outside which can never affect our fallen nature inside. Humanism like religion gives us rules and regulations to live by, only Jesus reforms us from the inside.
The choice of Absolutes and Relativism The Eternality of God
Religion or Relationship ? There are no Atheists Evil Ism's
Things God cannot do Speculations to the beginning A Witness to The Gospel
Christ's Miracles There are Too many Hypocrites in church
In Response to all the religions Biblical evidences for science
Christmas A Witness to The Gospel The Jesus seminar Choosing My Religion
© 2006 No portion of this site is to be copied or used unless kept in its original format the way it appears. Articles can be reproduced in portions for ones personal use, any other use is to have the permission of the author first. Thank You.
We would like to hear from you. Please send us an e- mail and let us know how we can be of more help. Our time is valuable just as yours is. Please keep in mind, we only have time to answer sincere inquiries. We will use discretion in answering any letters. Also: we do not accept attachments, so please send the mail viewable.
E -Mail Let Us Reason Ministries administrator@letusreason.org
We thank you for your support in our ministry
ABSOLUTES VS. RELATIVISM
The art of humanism in today's world
Each person and culture has developed their own definition of what right or wrong is. This theory is morally unacceptable because it implies an act can be right for someone even if it is cruel, hateful or harmful. Culture or ones personal preference does not dictate what is right or wrong. Neither can religions, for each area may have its own religion that came down to them from previous generations. There must be a greater standard, one that is more correct and more sure for us to live by. Otherwise we are left to invent our own opinions that will change in time because of our culture.
The definition of Relative truth- Truth that is true at only one time and at one place. It's true to some people and not to others. It's true now but it may not have been true in the past and it may not be again in the future, it's always subject to change. It is also subject to perspective of people
The definition of absolute truth-Whatever is true at one time and at one place is true at all time's and at all places. What is true for one person is true for all person's. Truth is true whether we believe it or not. Truth is discovered or it is revealed, it is not invented by a culture or by religious men.
There are absolutes, all of reality proves this. What we find is that the Christian world view is the most consistent with reality. There is truth and there is falsehood one cannot find what they are wrong in unless they have an ultimate standard. God believes in objective truth because he is that standard. The difference is that as Christians we believe God determines what is true and right which he has instructed in the Bible. Those who hold to the relative position believe man does and he can change as he wills.
EX: of absolutes - we all need air to breathe, to live we all need food and water. this is true for all people everywhere at all times. Gravity works the same everywhere here on the planet.
EX: one cannot be dry and wet at the same time. Something cannot be true and not true at the same time, one must be false or both, but both cannot be true. One cannot go forward and backward at the same time. One cannot live in the past and the future at the same time. Time goes forward it cannot go backward. No one is getting younger instead of older. You cannot have two Mts. Without a valley. You cannot have a stick with one end. You cannot be asleep and awake at the same time.
EX: George Washington was our first president but he no longer is. His being the first president of the US was true for all time and for all people in all places. There will never be a place at any time this is not true. He can never be the 20th president, So it is an absolute truth but for his time.
Believing something that is not true.
What is true for one person is true for all people-If the ancients people believed the earth was flat it is true for all men at all times and places. It will never be false that ancient man believed the earth was flat. It may not actually be true that the earth is flat, but it is true they believed this. So this is truth for their time, but that is not a description of absolute truth. If one only believes it to be true then they are not making a truth claim. Belief statements are not truth statements, one is simply declaring their belief. Such as If someone said I can fly. To you that belief may be true, but not the statement itself. Truth is to be a justifiable belief. It needs to be proven at least logically and agree with reality.
A religious ex. God cannot exist and not exist at the same time. Only one of these views is true, because we are dealing with reality. They are contradictory and the world should be consistent with reality.
Relativism cannot be true- claims of relativism depend on which vantage point the observer stands from. Relativism cannot be true- claims of relativism depend on which vantage point the observer stands from. If your standing on the right side or the left side it all becomes the perspective of the viewer. One could actually say an event did not occur from their vantage point while others experienced it.
If relativism were true then the universe could contain actual contradictory conditions and truths, which is impossible. Opposites cannot both be true, its contradictory and denies the laws of non contradiction. This law is undeniable, you can’t not use it without using it and you can’t deny it without using it, so its literally undeniable. Contradictions both cannot be true at the same time so the relative view is false. Ex. If relativism is true than to an atheist God does not exist, but to a believer he also does exist. Opposites cannot both be true. If relativism is true then nothing could be true. Why? For one cannot claim that it is an absolute truth, that something is only relative truth for him. This is like saying I’m absolutely certain everything is relative. Then everything isn’t relative if he is absolutely certain. But if everything is relative to each different person, to this one , and that one , ad infinitum, then its not true at all and everyone is believing falsehood. If relativism were true you can never be mistaken or wrong or learn anything. Because its true to me at that time and it may not be another time , by my own standard even if I’m wrong its true. You can only find out what is wrong if something is true. There has to be a ultimate standard of measure that is truth.
The problem lies in the root of relativism, that there is no absolute truth.
EX: 2 + 2= 4. But what if someone told you it was 5, 2 +2 always equals 4, someone comes along and says it's now 5. You can change it, but it would not be consistent to truth and reality. For something to be true it must be true before, true now, and true in the future. Truth does not change . Because it's absolute , especially when it comes to God. What if you learned 2 + 2 your whole life were 5 does that make it true? Or were you taught falsely. For one to learn their must be truth, absolutes or all education is a farce. You’d be ever learning and not coming to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim3:7) So if you took 10 years of college education at the end you’d be right back where you started and the no better for it. Because what you knew when you started, which was a state of ignorance on the subjects you were going to become educated on, 10 years later did not progress you in the pursuit of learning.
The Greek philosopher Protagoras said "man is the measure of all things." This means each person can decide there own standard for right and wrong living. What is morally right for me, may be wrong for another. this is the essence of relativism.
This means cruelty and hate can be right for someone to practice. If society practiced this we would self destruct. Our culture has community values that are shared to protect harm to others.
If all truth is relative than would you feel safe to let your child play with a child molester since that is his truth. Would you allow someone who does human sacrifices befriend your family? Obviously relative truth can sometimes be harmful.
How do we find out if what we believe is relative or absolute?
There are standards we all use each and every day in science, mathematics. We calculate a space shots by using mathematics . In construction we measure what we cut so it will fit the blueprints of what is being built. All these transfer over into different languages and cultures but we share it as universal. These are not absolute truths since we can change them and still share together the same measurements but they are a standard that we all operate in. But their are other laws if violated have drastic consequences. It doesn't matter what country your in or what race you are or what religion you practice if you fall off a building you will hit the ground the same. So gravity is a universal principle for man. the same would be for deep sea pressure. if you go down to quick or too far you get the bends. These are natural laws we are to respect or we can be see drastic results. Nature can't be changed ,like mathematics it is constant adhering to laws because nature was made by the creator.
We can’t test truth by our feelings. You can’t feel error, but you can use your mind to think truth. You cannot distinguish good and evil by your feelings because evil (sin) feels good.
Truth is not the opposite of falsehood it is the absence of falsehood. Evil is not just the opposite of good, it is the absence of good. To decide that something is evil means one must have a standard of truth. Whether it is the Bibles or their own they are living by someone's standards.
Our society has become self deciding what is good, humanism is trying to do what is right without God in the equation. The humanist doesn't need religion because he is confident that the heart of man is basically good. Even though humanism as an "ism" shares many common practical values with Christianity (ethics?), but the humanistic concept of "good" is on a collision course with Jesus' view of "good." The humanist's standard of goodness must be low enough for the average person to be able to meet it requirements consistently. God's standard of goodness is perfection. This is why a humanist must make his own standard otherwise he will be unable to meet it. And of course that can all change in a whim. Although humanism can make the world better in some respects its standards still are relative to the culture and time. For example many things were given in the past as cures for sicknesses would be rejected today as harmful. But at the time it was with good intentions. So humanism has no cure for evil nor can it explain it. Christ who is God and the ultimate good is the only answer.
"The heart is deceitfully wicked,( incurably sick). (Jer. 17:9). God the creator is the only one capable of fixing what is broken in man. We need a touch from a divine agency the great physician himself. Their is only one universal remedy to restore our alienation from God and cleanse us from guilt. God has given mankind the blood of Christ as the cure to remove the innate problem of sin. No other religion claims to solve the sin factor because they don't believe it exists, this includes the humanist. Their remedy is education and ethics. I don't believe this is the answer, some of the most depraved people in the world are well educated with Ph.D.s. If one educates a thief, you only increase his capacity to steal, education is not the solution. Neither can we make a sinner look any better with solutions from man. We don't need a cover-up for our falling short, but an uncovering to see our sin that separates us from God.
When we see our sickness and how desperate we are in need of his cleansing from sin. Then we are open to the truth that is found in only one place.
What Jesus does is from the inside out, what man does is from the outside which can never affect our fallen nature inside. Humanism like religion gives us rules and regulations to live by, only Jesus reforms us from the inside.
The choice of Absolutes and Relativism The Eternality of God
Religion or Relationship ? There are no Atheists Evil Ism's
Things God cannot do Speculations to the beginning A Witness to The Gospel
Christ's Miracles There are Too many Hypocrites in church
In Response to all the religions Biblical evidences for science
Christmas A Witness to The Gospel The Jesus seminar Choosing My Religion
© 2006 No portion of this site is to be copied or used unless kept in its original format the way it appears. Articles can be reproduced in portions for ones personal use, any other use is to have the permission of the author first. Thank You.
We would like to hear from you. Please send us an e- mail and let us know how we can be of more help. Our time is valuable just as yours is. Please keep in mind, we only have time to answer sincere inquiries. We will use discretion in answering any letters. Also: we do not accept attachments, so please send the mail viewable.
E -Mail Let Us Reason Ministries administrator@letusreason.org
We thank you for your support in our ministry
Welcome to :
The Emergent Church- A new wave of evangelical identity
by Pastor Steven W. Cornell
The purpose of this article is to critique a relatively new wave of Christian identity known as the Emergent Church. It is a rapidly growing network of individual believers and Churches who would prefer to be understood as a conversation or a friendship rather than an organization. Yet due to the overwhelming interest in Emergent, those who have joined the conversation have found it necessary to organize and designate leaders on the national and international levels. Other titles associated with Emergent include: post-evangelical, post-conservative, post-fundamentalists, post-foundationalists, post-propositionalist, and younger evangelicals. www.emergentvillage.com is a primary web site for emergent.
Emergent Church leaders
The late Stanley Grenz has been recognized as the professor of post-conservatism. Roger Olson and Robert Webber have been branded the publicists of post-conservatism. Tony Jones is the U.S. National Coordinator for Emergent and Brian McLaren is arguably the most popular name associated with the work of emergent. Other names include: Leonard Sweet, Erwin McManus, Spencer Burke, Edmund Burke, John Franke, Rob Bell, Mike Yaconelli, Chris Seay, Carol Childress, and Dave Travis.
Critical assessment of Emergent
Before offering critical assessment of Emergent, it is wise to remember that such analysis should never be approached lightly. We are all one body. “We have the same Spirit, and we have all been called to the same glorious future. There is only one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and there is only one God and Father, who is over us all and in us all and living through us all” (Ephesians 4:4-6).
Yet our spiritual unity does not preclude our responsibility to critique new movements within the body of Christ. New waves of teaching and identity must be evaluated by the faith that was- once for all -- delivered to God’s people. The New Testament warns about the danger of being easily enamored with novel ideas. When believers are not firmly grounded in biblical truth, they vacillate like susceptible children who constantly change their minds about what they believe because someone has told them something different.
Emerging in reaction
Emergent, like most new expressions within the Church, is partly a reaction to existing identities in the body of Christ. Some of the most influential leaders in Emergent have emerged from conservative and fundamentalist approaches to Christianity. It is apparent from their writings that these leaders feel betrayed by their upbringing. They reject the simplistic, biased and judgmental way they were taught to look at people in the world --many of whom seem more pleasant, humble and nice than the people from their fundamentalist Churches. Reacting to this background, they are determined to transcend the separatist spirit of Christians who seem to have nothing more important to do than to defend how right they are and how wrong everyone else is. With a chastened spirit of repentance, they reach out with open arms of tolerance and acceptance to those they were warned to separate from.
The Emergent offer
Emergent offers what they believe to be a more generous orthodoxy. They believe the Church should be a welcoming and authentic community of creativity and learning—a place where people with different views are treated with the utmost respect and dignity (rather than being looked down on). They offer an eclectic use of traditions in worship—candle lighting, prayer stations, liturgy, symbols, meditation, sermons, songs and conversations. They desire to move beyond a creed-based identity to a spirituality-based identity. They recommend embracing and celebrating the mystery of the world, life and God rather than conquering it. They prefer theology as a quest for the beauty and truth of God rather than a search for propositional statements, proof texts and doctrinal formulations ----used to measure those who are in and judge those who are out. Committed to what they call a missional focus, they see the world as something to reach out to not something to hide from and arrogantly renounce.
The Emergent overreaction
Those who share a common conservative background (especially younger leaders) will be drawn to the concerns raised by Emergent. Conservative and fundamental Church leaders have been guilty of reactionary extremes. Yet, as is almost always the case, reactions to reactions swing the proverbial pendulum to opposite extremes. Sadly, in the case of emergent, the desire to be perceived as accepting and non-condemning is being taken too far. In their effort to avoid being misunderstood by nonbelievers, they soft-pedal around the exclusivity of salvation through Christ alone. They are evasive on teaching about eternal punishment. They blur Scriptural condemnation of homosexual behavior. In the end, one is left to question the extent to which they embrace Scripture as the authoritative, univocal divine revelation for humanity.
Emergent’s limited generosity
The welcoming spirit of emergent is commendable but it is generously extended to everyone except conservative Christians. The best example of this is found in Brian McLaren’s, “A Generous Orthodoxy.” Mimicking the spirit of the culture, McLaren offers everyone (except conservative Christians) large doses of tolerance. Parroting the academic community, those considered liberal or on the left receive the most generosity from McLaren. This is significant because emergent is built on the assumption that evangelicals (of both the conservative and pragmatic stripe) have made far too many concessions to modern culture. It is often the case that the things we condemn in others we are guilty of in other areas. Evidently, McLaren doesn’t recognize how cynical, sarcastic, and condescending he sounds toward those he deems old fashion, non-emergent Christian modernists.
The Emergent overstatement
Emergent leaders emphasize a need for radical reform in the Church based on an understanding of postmodern culture. They operate on “the assumption that postmodernism has effected such a gigantic and irreversible shift in people’s thought patterns that the Church is faced with a fundamental choice: adapt so as to respond better to postmodernism, or be relegated to irrelevance” (D.A. Carson, “Becoming Conversant with Emergent”).
In this area of emphasis, emergent leaders should be cautioned against the kind of overstatement they deplore in other twigs of evangelical identity. First, the nature of the shift from modern to postmodern is highly debatable (see: D. A. Carson, Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church). Is post-modern actually most-modern? Perhaps we should really be talking about what Paul Vitz identifies as trans-modernism.
Secondly, while it is true that many spiritual leaders do not adequately understand the cultural changes that have occurred over the last several decades, many others have faithfully and effectively addressed those changes before Emergent ever emerged. I fear that Emergent, in an effort to emphasize the urgency of their mission has inadvertently disrespected the outstanding work of many leaders and ministries in this area of concern (see examples below).
Emergent and postmodernity
A more troubling possibility is that Emergent leaders are not really interested in thoughtful biblical critique of postmodernity. Is it the Emergent enterprise to seek a better understanding of the shift to postmodernity and address it as a communicational challenge for the gospel? Or, have the Emergent leaders embraced the values of postmodernity because they actually consider them superior?
The most important value of postmodernity is the inadmissibility of all totalizing ways of viewing any dimension of life. Postmodernity, as a theory, refuses to allow any single defining source for truth and reality beyond the individual. The gospel clearly contradicts this value. While Emergent leaders raise legitimate concerns about adding too much to the gospel, they also must be careful not to reshape the gospel to accommodate this primary value of postmodernity. If the gospel is held hostage to the restrictions of postmodernity, it ceases to be good news. For further analysis, see: Becoming Conversant with the Emergent Church, D. A. Carson, Zondervan, 2005.
Suggested reading:
The Gagging of God: Christianity confronts pluralism, D. A. Carson, Zondervan, 1996.
Postmodernizing the Faith: Evangelical Responses to the Challenge of postmodernism, Millard Erickson, Baker, 1998
Truth Decay: Defending Christianity against the Challenges of Postmodernism, Douglas Grouthuis, IVP, 2000
Truth or Consequences: The promise and perils of postmodernism, Millard Erickson, IVP, 2001
Preaching to a Postmodern World, Graham Johnston, Baker,2001
Reclaiming the Center: Confronting Evangelical Accommodation in Postmodern times, ed. Millard Erickson, Paul Kjoss Helseth, Justin Taylor Crossway, 2004
by Pastor Steven W. Cornell
s.cornell@millersvillebiblechurch.org
© 2006 No portion of this site is to be copied or used unless kept in its original format the way it appears. Articles can be reproduced in portions for ones personal use, any other use is to have the permission of the author first. Thank You.
We would like to hear from you. Please send us an e- mail and let us know how we can be of more help. Our time is valuable just as yours is. Please keep in mind, we only have time to answer sincere inquiries. We will use discretion in answering any letters. Also: we do not accept attachments, so please send the mail viewable.
E -Mail Let Us Reason Ministries administrator@letusreason.org
We thank you for your support in our ministry
Welcome to :
The Emergent Church- A new wave of evangelical identity
by Pastor Steven W. Cornell
The purpose of this article is to critique a relatively new wave of Christian identity known as the Emergent Church. It is a rapidly growing network of individual believers and Churches who would prefer to be understood as a conversation or a friendship rather than an organization. Yet due to the overwhelming interest in Emergent, those who have joined the conversation have found it necessary to organize and designate leaders on the national and international levels. Other titles associated with Emergent include: post-evangelical, post-conservative, post-fundamentalists, post-foundationalists, post-propositionalist, and younger evangelicals. www.emergentvillage.com is a primary web site for emergent.
Emergent Church leaders
The late Stanley Grenz has been recognized as the professor of post-conservatism. Roger Olson and Robert Webber have been branded the publicists of post-conservatism. Tony Jones is the U.S. National Coordinator for Emergent and Brian McLaren is arguably the most popular name associated with the work of emergent. Other names include: Leonard Sweet, Erwin McManus, Spencer Burke, Edmund Burke, John Franke, Rob Bell, Mike Yaconelli, Chris Seay, Carol Childress, and Dave Travis.
Critical assessment of Emergent
Before offering critical assessment of Emergent, it is wise to remember that such analysis should never be approached lightly. We are all one body. “We have the same Spirit, and we have all been called to the same glorious future. There is only one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and there is only one God and Father, who is over us all and in us all and living through us all” (Ephesians 4:4-6).
Yet our spiritual unity does not preclude our responsibility to critique new movements within the body of Christ. New waves of teaching and identity must be evaluated by the faith that was- once for all -- delivered to God’s people. The New Testament warns about the danger of being easily enamored with novel ideas. When believers are not firmly grounded in biblical truth, they vacillate like susceptible children who constantly change their minds about what they believe because someone has told them something different.
Emerging in reaction
Emergent, like most new expressions within the Church, is partly a reaction to existing identities in the body of Christ. Some of the most influential leaders in Emergent have emerged from conservative and fundamentalist approaches to Christianity. It is apparent from their writings that these leaders feel betrayed by their upbringing. They reject the simplistic, biased and judgmental way they were taught to look at people in the world --many of whom seem more pleasant, humble and nice than the people from their fundamentalist Churches. Reacting to this background, they are determined to transcend the separatist spirit of Christians who seem to have nothing more important to do than to defend how right they are and how wrong everyone else is. With a chastened spirit of repentance, they reach out with open arms of tolerance and acceptance to those they were warned to separate from.
The Emergent offer
Emergent offers what they believe to be a more generous orthodoxy. They believe the Church should be a welcoming and authentic community of creativity and learning—a place where people with different views are treated with the utmost respect and dignity (rather than being looked down on). They offer an eclectic use of traditions in worship—candle lighting, prayer stations, liturgy, symbols, meditation, sermons, songs and conversations. They desire to move beyond a creed-based identity to a spirituality-based identity. They recommend embracing and celebrating the mystery of the world, life and God rather than conquering it. They prefer theology as a quest for the beauty and truth of God rather than a search for propositional statements, proof texts and doctrinal formulations ----used to measure those who are in and judge those who are out. Committed to what they call a missional focus, they see the world as something to reach out to not something to hide from and arrogantly renounce.
The Emergent overreaction
Those who share a common conservative background (especially younger leaders) will be drawn to the concerns raised by Emergent. Conservative and fundamental Church leaders have been guilty of reactionary extremes. Yet, as is almost always the case, reactions to reactions swing the proverbial pendulum to opposite extremes. Sadly, in the case of emergent, the desire to be perceived as accepting and non-condemning is being taken too far. In their effort to avoid being misunderstood by nonbelievers, they soft-pedal around the exclusivity of salvation through Christ alone. They are evasive on teaching about eternal punishment. They blur Scriptural condemnation of homosexual behavior. In the end, one is left to question the extent to which they embrace Scripture as the authoritative, univocal divine revelation for humanity.
Emergent’s limited generosity
The welcoming spirit of emergent is commendable but it is generously extended to everyone except conservative Christians. The best example of this is found in Brian McLaren’s, “A Generous Orthodoxy.” Mimicking the spirit of the culture, McLaren offers everyone (except conservative Christians) large doses of tolerance. Parroting the academic community, those considered liberal or on the left receive the most generosity from McLaren. This is significant because emergent is built on the assumption that evangelicals (of both the conservative and pragmatic stripe) have made far too many concessions to modern culture. It is often the case that the things we condemn in others we are guilty of in other areas. Evidently, McLaren doesn’t recognize how cynical, sarcastic, and condescending he sounds toward those he deems old fashion, non-emergent Christian modernists.
The Emergent overstatement
Emergent leaders emphasize a need for radical reform in the Church based on an understanding of postmodern culture. They operate on “the assumption that postmodernism has effected such a gigantic and irreversible shift in people’s thought patterns that the Church is faced with a fundamental choice: adapt so as to respond better to postmodernism, or be relegated to irrelevance” (D.A. Carson, “Becoming Conversant with Emergent”).
In this area of emphasis, emergent leaders should be cautioned against the kind of overstatement they deplore in other twigs of evangelical identity. First, the nature of the shift from modern to postmodern is highly debatable (see: D. A. Carson, Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church). Is post-modern actually most-modern? Perhaps we should really be talking about what Paul Vitz identifies as trans-modernism.
Secondly, while it is true that many spiritual leaders do not adequately understand the cultural changes that have occurred over the last several decades, many others have faithfully and effectively addressed those changes before Emergent ever emerged. I fear that Emergent, in an effort to emphasize the urgency of their mission has inadvertently disrespected the outstanding work of many leaders and ministries in this area of concern (see examples below).
Emergent and postmodernity
A more troubling possibility is that Emergent leaders are not really interested in thoughtful biblical critique of postmodernity. Is it the Emergent enterprise to seek a better understanding of the shift to postmodernity and address it as a communicational challenge for the gospel? Or, have the Emergent leaders embraced the values of postmodernity because they actually consider them superior?
The most important value of postmodernity is the inadmissibility of all totalizing ways of viewing any dimension of life. Postmodernity, as a theory, refuses to allow any single defining source for truth and reality beyond the individual. The gospel clearly contradicts this value. While Emergent leaders raise legitimate concerns about adding too much to the gospel, they also must be careful not to reshape the gospel to accommodate this primary value of postmodernity. If the gospel is held hostage to the restrictions of postmodernity, it ceases to be good news. For further analysis, see: Becoming Conversant with the Emergent Church, D. A. Carson, Zondervan, 2005.
Suggested reading:
The Gagging of God: Christianity confronts pluralism, D. A. Carson, Zondervan, 1996.
Postmodernizing the Faith: Evangelical Responses to the Challenge of postmodernism, Millard Erickson, Baker, 1998
Truth Decay: Defending Christianity against the Challenges of Postmodernism, Douglas Grouthuis, IVP, 2000
Truth or Consequences: The promise and perils of postmodernism, Millard Erickson, IVP, 2001
Preaching to a Postmodern World, Graham Johnston, Baker,2001
Reclaiming the Center: Confronting Evangelical Accommodation in Postmodern times, ed. Millard Erickson, Paul Kjoss Helseth, Justin Taylor Crossway, 2004
by Pastor Steven W. Cornell
s.cornell@millersvillebiblechurch.org
© 2006 No portion of this site is to be copied or used unless kept in its original format the way it appears. Articles can be reproduced in portions for ones personal use, any other use is to have the permission of the author first. Thank You.
We would like to hear from you. Please send us an e- mail and let us know how we can be of more help. Our time is valuable just as yours is. Please keep in mind, we only have time to answer sincere inquiries. We will use discretion in answering any letters. Also: we do not accept attachments, so please send the mail viewable.
E -Mail Let Us Reason Ministries administrator@letusreason.org
We thank you for your support in our ministry
The Emergent Church- A new wave of evangelical identity
by Pastor Steven W. Cornell
The purpose of this article is to critique a relatively new wave of Christian identity known as the Emergent Church. It is a rapidly growing network of individual believers and Churches who would prefer to be understood as a conversation or a friendship rather than an organization. Yet due to the overwhelming interest in Emergent, those who have joined the conversation have found it necessary to organize and designate leaders on the national and international levels. Other titles associated with Emergent include: post-evangelical, post-conservative, post-fundamentalists, post-foundationalists, post-propositionalist, and younger evangelicals. www.emergentvillage.com is a primary web site for emergent.
Emergent Church leaders
The late Stanley Grenz has been recognized as the professor of post-conservatism. Roger Olson and Robert Webber have been branded the publicists of post-conservatism. Tony Jones is the U.S. National Coordinator for Emergent and Brian McLaren is arguably the most popular name associated with the work of emergent. Other names include: Leonard Sweet, Erwin McManus, Spencer Burke, Edmund Burke, John Franke, Rob Bell, Mike Yaconelli, Chris Seay, Carol Childress, and Dave Travis.
Critical assessment of Emergent
Before offering critical assessment of Emergent, it is wise to remember that such analysis should never be approached lightly. We are all one body. “We have the same Spirit, and we have all been called to the same glorious future. There is only one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and there is only one God and Father, who is over us all and in us all and living through us all” (Ephesians 4:4-6).
Yet our spiritual unity does not preclude our responsibility to critique new movements within the body of Christ. New waves of teaching and identity must be evaluated by the faith that was- once for all -- delivered to God’s people. The New Testament warns about the danger of being easily enamored with novel ideas. When believers are not firmly grounded in biblical truth, they vacillate like susceptible children who constantly change their minds about what they believe because someone has told them something different.
Emerging in reaction
Emergent, like most new expressions within the Church, is partly a reaction to existing identities in the body of Christ. Some of the most influential leaders in Emergent have emerged from conservative and fundamentalist approaches to Christianity. It is apparent from their writings that these leaders feel betrayed by their upbringing. They reject the simplistic, biased and judgmental way they were taught to look at people in the world --many of whom seem more pleasant, humble and nice than the people from their fundamentalist Churches. Reacting to this background, they are determined to transcend the separatist spirit of Christians who seem to have nothing more important to do than to defend how right they are and how wrong everyone else is. With a chastened spirit of repentance, they reach out with open arms of tolerance and acceptance to those they were warned to separate from.
The Emergent offer
Emergent offers what they believe to be a more generous orthodoxy. They believe the Church should be a welcoming and authentic community of creativity and learning—a place where people with different views are treated with the utmost respect and dignity (rather than being looked down on). They offer an eclectic use of traditions in worship—candle lighting, prayer stations, liturgy, symbols, meditation, sermons, songs and conversations. They desire to move beyond a creed-based identity to a spirituality-based identity. They recommend embracing and celebrating the mystery of the world, life and God rather than conquering it. They prefer theology as a quest for the beauty and truth of God rather than a search for propositional statements, proof texts and doctrinal formulations ----used to measure those who are in and judge those who are out. Committed to what they call a missional focus, they see the world as something to reach out to not something to hide from and arrogantly renounce.
The Emergent overreaction
Those who share a common conservative background (especially younger leaders) will be drawn to the concerns raised by Emergent. Conservative and fundamental Church leaders have been guilty of reactionary extremes. Yet, as is almost always the case, reactions to reactions swing the proverbial pendulum to opposite extremes. Sadly, in the case of emergent, the desire to be perceived as accepting and non-condemning is being taken too far. In their effort to avoid being misunderstood by nonbelievers, they soft-pedal around the exclusivity of salvation through Christ alone. They are evasive on teaching about eternal punishment. They blur Scriptural condemnation of homosexual behavior. In the end, one is left to question the extent to which they embrace Scripture as the authoritative, univocal divine revelation for humanity.
Emergent’s limited generosity
The welcoming spirit of emergent is commendable but it is generously extended to everyone except conservative Christians. The best example of this is found in Brian McLaren’s, “A Generous Orthodoxy.” Mimicking the spirit of the culture, McLaren offers everyone (except conservative Christians) large doses of tolerance. Parroting the academic community, those considered liberal or on the left receive the most generosity from McLaren. This is significant because emergent is built on the assumption that evangelicals (of both the conservative and pragmatic stripe) have made far too many concessions to modern culture. It is often the case that the things we condemn in others we are guilty of in other areas. Evidently, McLaren doesn’t recognize how cynical, sarcastic, and condescending he sounds toward those he deems old fashion, non-emergent Christian modernists.
The Emergent overstatement
Emergent leaders emphasize a need for radical reform in the Church based on an understanding of postmodern culture. They operate on “the assumption that postmodernism has effected such a gigantic and irreversible shift in people’s thought patterns that the Church is faced with a fundamental choice: adapt so as to respond better to postmodernism, or be relegated to irrelevance” (D.A. Carson, “Becoming Conversant with Emergent”).
In this area of emphasis, emergent leaders should be cautioned against the kind of overstatement they deplore in other twigs of evangelical identity. First, the nature of the shift from modern to postmodern is highly debatable (see: D. A. Carson, Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church). Is post-modern actually most-modern? Perhaps we should really be talking about what Paul Vitz identifies as trans-modernism.
Secondly, while it is true that many spiritual leaders do not adequately understand the cultural changes that have occurred over the last several decades, many others have faithfully and effectively addressed those changes before Emergent ever emerged. I fear that Emergent, in an effort to emphasize the urgency of their mission has inadvertently disrespected the outstanding work of many leaders and ministries in this area of concern (see examples below).
Emergent and postmodernity
A more troubling possibility is that Emergent leaders are not really interested in thoughtful biblical critique of postmodernity. Is it the Emergent enterprise to seek a better understanding of the shift to postmodernity and address it as a communicational challenge for the gospel? Or, have the Emergent leaders embraced the values of postmodernity because they actually consider them superior?
The most important value of postmodernity is the inadmissibility of all totalizing ways of viewing any dimension of life. Postmodernity, as a theory, refuses to allow any single defining source for truth and reality beyond the individual. The gospel clearly contradicts this value. While Emergent leaders raise legitimate concerns about adding too much to the gospel, they also must be careful not to reshape the gospel to accommodate this primary value of postmodernity. If the gospel is held hostage to the restrictions of postmodernity, it ceases to be good news. For further analysis, see: Becoming Conversant with the Emergent Church, D. A. Carson, Zondervan, 2005.
Suggested reading:
The Gagging of God: Christianity confronts pluralism, D. A. Carson, Zondervan, 1996.
Postmodernizing the Faith: Evangelical Responses to the Challenge of postmodernism, Millard Erickson, Baker, 1998
Truth Decay: Defending Christianity against the Challenges of Postmodernism, Douglas Grouthuis, IVP, 2000
Truth or Consequences: The promise and perils of postmodernism, Millard Erickson, IVP, 2001
Preaching to a Postmodern World, Graham Johnston, Baker,2001
Reclaiming the Center: Confronting Evangelical Accommodation in Postmodern times, ed. Millard Erickson, Paul Kjoss Helseth, Justin Taylor Crossway, 2004
by Pastor Steven W. Cornell
s.cornell@millersvillebiblechurch.org
© 2006 No portion of this site is to be copied or used unless kept in its original format the way it appears. Articles can be reproduced in portions for ones personal use, any other use is to have the permission of the author first. Thank You.
We would like to hear from you. Please send us an e- mail and let us know how we can be of more help. Our time is valuable just as yours is. Please keep in mind, we only have time to answer sincere inquiries. We will use discretion in answering any letters. Also: we do not accept attachments, so please send the mail viewable.
E -Mail Let Us Reason Ministries administrator@letusreason.org
We thank you for your support in our ministry
(KJV) Psalm ...In his season.
Psa 1:1 ¶ Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa 1:2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Psa 1:4 The ungodly [are] not so: but [are] like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psa 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Hi copleybmt,
Well....its only 2 ticks from max bottom, and how many ticks up?????? is what we are all looking for.
Most people probably bought in before last week, so your talking about a pps of at least 3x's current.
At this pps its either a scam on its way down, OR its a risk/reward opportunity for those that can average down, etc.
As they say: Im already... ALL IN!
Stay blessed (1John1:9)
lol
Yep.
Exactly what im already doing. lol
Man, o man.....ouch.
You guys take care out there.
ETERNITY........thats where youll find me each day. =]
Man, last week I was called in to work the day I couldve stepped out, EVEN, on this.
Came back home, and was wayyyyyyyy down =/
Held for only a couple days longer and......Im as they say: NOW LONG TERM ! LOL. (It still could go lower though).
Need good news.
After just missing a 10 bagger with QMMG a while back, from selling 2 days too early, a repeat would not sit so well with me here, if I didnt just bit the bullet and wait it out.
*I thought about bailing today...but remembering this is a pink sheet AROUND THE BOTTOM....du. I might as well stick it out.
Just like INXR...it had to touch bottom before getting gravytrain news. Godbless.
Hbr 11:1 ¶ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hbr 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Hbr 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Hbr 11:4 ¶ By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Hbr 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
...he that cometh to God.
We look for ETERNITY. This is where our hope remains.
Knowing that God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
When days here go bad, it helps to remember that God wants the best for us, and in due season we will shine and come forth as gold.
Stay blessed everyone. =]
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20Government/Federal%20Reserve%20Scam/root_of_all_evil.htm
The Olympic High Diver
An Olympic gold-medallist high-diving champion was once plagued with insomnia. As he tossed and turned upon his bed, he began thinking deeply about the success he had attained in his field. He meditated on the gold medals he had won. To his dismay he realized that his success had not achieved what he had hoped. The excitement of winning, the photographers, the medals, and the fame had given him some sense of pleasure, but the fact of death awaiting him left him with a complete sense of futility.
He rose from the bed and made his way to his diving pool. Because of a full moon, he didn’t even bother to turn the lights on. As he climbed the high diving board, he watched his shadow cast by the moonlight on the far wall. The routine had become so commonplace to him that he could confidently walk that board in the semi-darkness.
At the end of the diving board, he prepared for the dive. He placed his feet together, then pulled his arms up to a horizontal position. As he did so, his eyes caught a glimpse of his shadow on the far wall. All he could see was a perfect cross. His mind immediately raced back to his Sunday school days: “God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8). All of a sudden he felt unclean as he considered the Commandments he had broken. The sinless Son of God had come to pay the penalty for his sins. With tears in his eyes, the great athlete turned around, slowly made his way down to the bottom of the diving board, fell to his knees, and yielded his life to Jesus Christ. He was able to go back to bed and sleep peacefully.
In the morning he arose with a new sense of forgiveness of his sins. He made his way back to the pool, but to his utter astonishment, it was completely empty. The previous evening, the caretaker had emptied it and was just beginning the process of refilling.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/hovind_kent/creation/creation_template.html <<<AWESOME VIDEOS!!
ENJOY. =]
Hi princess, and Briboy.
Nice to hear from you both.
Glad to see the Lord using you both.
I know my calling....is sorta looked down on unfortunately, but that just means all the more need.
I think the book/page of Jude is quite timely.
It is the last written word to the body of Christ, prior to the finality of scripture given us of Revelation, by Jesus to John.
Jud 1:3 ¶ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Here Jude wanted to give the good 'ol John3:16 message to everyone, but realized the urgency to WARN/CONTEND for the word of God. That is too say the faith/DOCTRINE within its blood bought pages. The following verses are quite powerful and to the point for being only 25 verses total. -stay blessed.
=========================================================
King James Version (KJV) Jude - Chapter 1
Jud 1:1 ¶ Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, [and] called:
Jud 1:2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
Jud 1:3 ¶ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jud 1:5 ¶ I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jud 1:8 Likewise also these [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Jud 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Jud 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
Jud 1:12 ¶ These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jud 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Jud 1:16 ¶ These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling [words], having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Jud 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Jud 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jud 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Jud 1:20 ¶ But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling [them] out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Jud 1:24 ¶ Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Posted by: VERITAS77
In reply to: excel who wrote msg# 8457 Date:3/13/2007 7:40:19 AM
Post #of 8458
The point is the way cults are formed, the way churches go bad, is when people believe in interpretations from others, not what SCRIPTURE says with what Jesus says to their hearts, because they are listening to MEN not learning from Jesus!
Very true.
To know Jesus is to know the word. John 1:1
-------------
Thankyou for responding. btw...the video was great, I added it to the message board.
-------------------------
Apparently I can only do so much. I can deliver a message as the messenger, and thats it.
I recently attended a church I was invited to, to make a long story short.....
the alter call at the end for new believers wanting to be bornagain, was not of the Lord.
Their was nothing in the alther call to transition the dead/unrighteous that is, spirit of man into a biblical heart turning response to WHO JESUS IS.
anotherwords......come to Jesus to fix you up, and "take away your sins" only.
NO MENTION OF THE CROSS.
NO MENTION OF THE BLOOD.
NO MENTION OF THE RESURRECTION.
NO MENTION OF WHY...NO HELL MENTIONED.
well....nothing.
So.....what you have in "modern churches" is what seems to be "spiritual abortion".
It is when the team ministry, collaborate with genuine worship songs, and bodies swaying back and forth(like in any concert, christian or not)....then the "message" is delivered and the mind/body is suseptable of anything, good/bad.
We now have whole generations of YOUNG PEOPLE..... with "Another Gospel" as Paul warned us about.
You see, excel. I CARE. Deeply.
**You mentioned that I am starting to seem like someone else that posted in the past, well, I dont know anything about the stand of that poster.
-----------------------
I dont know about you, but being only 10 years difference from this generation coming out of school... I know that steps I had to choose, in order to seperate myself from the worlds "pie in the sky, have your cake AND eat it too" mentality.
--------------------------
I dont know if personal testimonies mean a whole lot to you (though I believe they would and do)...
I am not perfect by any means, but I do try to obey the Lord.
Ill just briefly list a few things the Lord has used me for, then explain WHY I DO WHAT I DO. Alright.
I used to live my life for me. No one else really. Yes, I was a nice person and all, so I thought, but in reality I was doing things without God, before I became bornagain.
fast forward........from B/C years to with CRIST now....
When I first was saved,
the Lord used me and I was put in ministry immediately.
I met a friend who was once a literaly gang member, killer etc etc...
well the Lord spared his life after a near fatal gunshot wound to his body(which the bullet still remains lodged inside him), he showed me the stiches running up from his waste to his neck line, from them repairing him from hells edge.
HE GAVE HIS LIFE TO THE LORD, AFTER THIS.
I had know this person for years before his conversion, and now seeming him witness and preach on the corners was amazing!.
He was homeless. His lifechange, removed him out of his old friends and living habits.
It was at this point, that I decided to help him out, and took him off the streets.
long story short, he and I would go to parks and street corners, you name it with a literal 10 FOOT cross, and signs, and tracts preaching JESUS SAVES. evangelism at its roots.
Mind you, I myself had only been a believer/FOLLOWER a year or so is all.
ALRIGHT...well, within one years time, the next thing I knew The Lord had used me to take 10-20 homeless literal bums of the street and SUPPORT THEM WORKING 2 JOBS, while they did nothing...while I was trying to be the good samaratin, and help these GROWN MEN, with a 2nd chance physically, and spiritually.
Ok, that was the beginning of ministry.
aside from park evangelism etc, and helping my friend hold small CRUSADES, and petitioning local church involvement etc etc.... it was going well.
I then began teaching sunday school. Both junior high and highschool.
I also was given opportunites to preach from behind the pulpit a few times as well.
I have preached at more than just one church.
I have also preached in old folks homes etc, graciously by the Lord that is. Amen.
Ive gone door to door before, park to park, in home, my home literally at one point had 10 homeless people, while i supported them all with food, and rent you name it.
well thankfully God relieved me of that stressful season.
I single young guy could only take sooo much of doing things solo. While others mocked, or used you.
The Lord has also used me to preach/give an entire funeral service recently.(man, that was scarry. it was all God though, who came through as always, to help minister to the deceased family and also about 300 young TEENS of their friend who passed away. They mostly all were gothic, so giving a sermon to my peers sorta was interesting. But sooo needed. The old men there, asked if I had done this full time or not, and that it was one of the best funerals they had ever heard.
I RESPONDED WITH: ID RATHER PREACH TO THE LIVING THAN FOR THE DEAD.
ANYWAYS.........I love you excel, and ANYTHING I say, I pray it is with the Lord, and not me only.
Godbless you, and just because I TAKE A *FIRM STAND on important issues, does not make me a bad person or even comparable to another person whom I do not even know.
anyways....
Aside from reading everything I could get my hands on(1000's of books) on/about Jesus etc...
I became aware of major problems growing in chrisendom.
I dont know if personal testimonies mean a whole lot to you (though I believe they would and do)...
I am not perfect by any means, but I do try to obey the Lord.
Ill just briefly list a few things the Lord has used me for, then explain WHY I DO WHAT I DO. Alright. ORIGINAL THOUGHT HERE.... Continued.
I understand that there are soo many marthas in the World, but few marrys who LISTEND TO THE 'WORD OF GOD-JESUS'.
The growing need is for correct doctrine, and a reteaching of the truth(singular)..to ministers.
IT HAS TO BE ONE OF THE HARDEST THINGS TO DO.
YOU ARE LOOKED DOWN UPON, BY EVERYONE.
This is why Jesus was rejected. He through truth, was reteaching the leaders - the way,truth, and life. They wanted to nothing to do with the truth. They had their own.
the results? Ever increasing wickedness allowed to prevail in the world. Sad =[.
------------------------------------
Thanks for the time reading this.
I will lay low till the Lord has me do otherwise.
You are in his hands anyways.
Be blessed and follow the truth continually.
-a real friend in the body of Christ, in much love.
http://www.audiopreaching.com/preaching.html
revival.
The point is the way cults are formed, the way churches go bad, is when people believe in interpretations from others, not what SCRIPTURE says with what Jesus says to their hearts, because they are listening to MEN not learning from Jesus!
Very true.
To know Jesus is to know the word. John 1:1
-------------
Thankyou for responding. btw...the video was great, I added it to the message board.
-------------------------
Apparently I can only do so much. I can deliver a message as the messenger, and thats it.
I recently attended a church I was invited to, to make a long story short.....
the alter call at the end for new believers wanting to be bornagain, was not of the Lord.
Their was nothing in the alther call to transition the dead/unrighteous that is, spirit of man into a biblical heart turning response to WHO JESUS IS.
anotherwords......come to Jesus to fix you up, and "take away your sins" only.
NO MENTION OF THE CROSS.
NO MENTION OF THE BLOOD.
NO MENTION OF THE RESURRECTION.
NO MENTION OF WHY...NO HELL MENTIONED.
well....nothing.
So.....what you have in "modern churches" is what seems to be "spiritual abortion".
It is when the team ministry, collaborate with genuine worship songs, and bodies swaying back and forth(like in any concert, christian or not)....then the "message" is delivered and the mind/body is suseptable of anything, good/bad.
We now have whole generations of YOUNG PEOPLE..... with "Another Gospel" as Paul warned us about.
You see, excel. I CARE. Deeply.
**You mentioned that I am starting to seem like someone else that posted in the past, well, I dont know anything about the stand of that poster.
-----------------------
I dont know about you, but being only 10 years difference from this generation coming out of school... I know that steps I had to choose, in order to seperate myself from the worlds "pie in the sky, have your cake AND eat it too" mentality.
--------------------------
I dont know if personal testimonies mean a whole lot to you (though I believe they would and do)...
I am not perfect by any means, but I do try to obey the Lord.
Ill just briefly list a few things the Lord has used me for, then explain WHY I DO WHAT I DO. Alright.
I used to live my life for me. No one else really. Yes, I was a nice person and all, so I thought, but in reality I was doing things without God, before I became bornagain.
fast forward........from B/C years to with CRIST now....
When I first was saved,
the Lord used me and I was put in ministry immediately.
I met a friend who was once a literaly gang member, killer etc etc...
well the Lord spared his life after a near fatal gunshot wound to his body(which the bullet still remains lodged inside him), he showed me the stiches running up from his waste to his neck line, from them repairing him from hells edge.
HE GAVE HIS LIFE TO THE LORD, AFTER THIS.
I had know this person for years before his conversion, and now seeming him witness and preach on the corners was amazing!.
He was homeless. His lifechange, removed him out of his old friends and living habits.
It was at this point, that I decided to help him out, and took him off the streets.
long story short, he and I would go to parks and street corners, you name it with a literal 10 FOOT cross, and signs, and tracts preaching JESUS SAVES. evangelism at its roots.
Mind you, I myself had only been a believer/FOLLOWER a year or so is all.
ALRIGHT...well, within one years time, the next thing I knew The Lord had used me to take 10-20 homeless literal bums of the street and SUPPORT THEM WORKING 2 JOBS, while they did nothing...while I was trying to be the good samaratin, and help these GROWN MEN, with a 2nd chance physically, and spiritually.
Ok, that was the beginning of ministry.
aside from park evangelism etc, and helping my friend hold small CRUSADES, and petitioning local church involvement etc etc.... it was going well.
I then began teaching sunday school. Both junior high and highschool.
I also was given opportunites to preach from behind the pulpit a few times as well.
I have preached at more than just one church.
I have also preached in old folks homes etc, graciously by the Lord that is. Amen.
Ive gone door to door before, park to park, in home, my home literally at one point had 10 homeless people, while i supported them all with food, and rent you name it.
well thankfully God relieved me of that stressful season.
I single young guy could only take sooo much of doing things solo. While others mocked, or used you.
The Lord has also used me to preach/give an entire funeral service recently.(man, that was scarry. it was all God though, who came through as always, to help minister to the deceased family and also about 300 young TEENS of their friend who passed away. They mostly all were gothic, so giving a sermon to my peers sorta was interesting. But sooo needed. The old men there, asked if I had done this full time or not, and that it was one of the best funerals they had ever heard.
I RESPONDED WITH: ID RATHER PREACH TO THE LIVING THAN FOR THE DEAD.
ANYWAYS.........I love you excel, and ANYTHING I say, I pray it is with the Lord, and not me only.
Godbless you, and just because I TAKE A *FIRM STAND on important issues, does not make me a bad person or even comparable to another person whom I do not even know.
anyways....
Aside from reading everything I could get my hands on(1000's of books) on/about Jesus etc...
I became aware of major problems growing in chrisendom.
I dont know if personal testimonies mean a whole lot to you (though I believe they would and do)...
I am not perfect by any means, but I do try to obey the Lord.
Ill just briefly list a few things the Lord has used me for, then explain WHY I DO WHAT I DO. Alright. ORIGINAL THOUGHT HERE.... Continued.
I understand that there are soo many marthas in the World, but few marrys who LISTEND TO THE 'WORD OF GOD-JESUS'.
The growing need is for correct doctrine, and a reteaching of the truth(singular)..to ministers.
IT HAS TO BE ONE OF THE HARDEST THINGS TO DO.
YOU ARE LOOKED DOWN UPON, BY EVERYONE.
This is why Jesus was rejected. He through truth, was reteaching the leaders - the way,truth, and life. They wanted to nothing to do with the truth. They had their own.
the results? Ever increasing wickedness allowed to prevail in the world. Sad =[.
------------------------------------
Thanks for the time reading this.
I will lay low till the Lord has me do otherwise.
You are in his hands anyways.
Be blessed and follow the truth continually.
-a real friend in the body of Christ, in much love.
http://www.audiopreaching.com/preaching.html
revival.
Posted by: VERITAS77
In reply to: excel who wrote msg# 8406 Date:3/6/2007 10:34:23 AM
Post #of 8455
Hi excel,
Im off to work now,
I would suggest.......to begin getting your thoughts out there. Its great to take surveys, start speaking up and pray for responses.
Good/bad......they are springboards to open the heart to the things of God, spiritually.
Godbless.
-an old post of mine.......I still mean it. *^)
Goodnight.
Posted by: VERITAS77
In reply to: excel who wrote msg# 8406 Date:3/6/2007 10:34:23 AM
Post #of 8455
Hi excel,
Im off to work now,
I would suggest.......to begin getting your thoughts out there. Its great to take surveys, start speaking up and pray for responses.
Good/bad......they are springboards to open the heart to the things of God, spiritually.
Godbless.
-an old post of mine.......I still mean it. *^)
Goodnight.
excel,
Everything I asked you about, you reject.
example.
today at work, this old man 85 he said, was having a so so day.
I mentioned about the Lord, and heaven and he chimmed right in with, im ready to go there anytime now, basically.
I decided to take it a step further to SEE if...this man really was a believer or just a wolf in sheeps clothing himself.
SADLY =/, I was correct in my decernment.
I went ahead a mentioned about Methuselah being over 900 years old, etc...trying to make light of his age, and the conversation, and about some day meeting God.
He not only reponded SUDDENLY with CURSING, but also that it was all B@#^%. etc, and walked on his merry little way.
People are going to die, and go to hell if they are not 4given and right with the Lord.
Another old preacher I talked to ....said his long testimony of how he preached to people.
how if.......we premeditate on MURDERING someone, and then died in the act of doing it ourselves....we automatically go to heaven as a believer.
This is his literal PLAN OF SALVATION, how he delivers it.
wicked.
this man.....will not listen to Gods word. He refuses council.
You think im full of it???????????????
Try it excel!!
You go and seriously witness to people who think, they are FOLLOWING JESUS AND HIS WORD...
You will find out that most reject the saviour and also the AUTHORITY of the bible over them.!
try it..youll be surprised.
THE BIBLE SAYS...FEW FIND HEAVEN. MANY GO TO DESTRUCTION.
a real friend, who cares enough to challenge your own ideas.
---
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Look at this verse.
...unbelieving...is only one of the sins mentioned here, for people that are going to go to hell, including unrepented believers for the sins listed.
WAKE UP!!!!
excel,
Everything I asked you on, you reject.
example.
today at work, this old man 85 he said, was having a so so day.
I mentioned about the Lord, and heaven and he chimmed right in with, im ready to go there anytime now, basically.
I decided to take it a step further to SEE if...this man really was a believer or just a wolf in sheeps clothing himself.
SADLY =/, I was correct in my decernment.
I went ahead a mentioned about Methuselah being over 900 years old, etc...trying to make light of his age, and the conversation, and about some day meeting God.
He not only reponded SUDDENLY with CURSING, but also that it was all B@#^%. etc, and walked on his merry little way.
People are going to die, and go to hell if they are not 4given and right with the Lord.
Another old preacher I talked to ....said his long testimony of how he preached to people.
how if.......we premeditate on MURDERING someone, and then died in the act of doing it ourselves....we automatically go to heaven as a believer.
This is his literal PLAN OF SALVATION, how he delivers it.
wicked.
this man.....will not listen to Gods word. He refuses council.
You think im full of it???????????????
Try it excel!!
You go and seriously witness to people who think, they are FOLLOWING JESUS AND HIS WORD...
You will find out that most reject the saviour and also the AUTHORITY of the bible over them.!
try it..youll be surprised.
THE BIBLE SAYS...FEW FIND HEAVEN. MANY GO TO DESTRUCTION.
a real friend, who cares enough to challenge your own ideas.
---
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Look at this verse.
...unbelieving...is only one of the sins mentioned here, for people that are going to go to hell, including unrepented believers for the sins listed.
WAKE UP!!!!
.
.
some times the truth is soooo
BLATANT, AND PEOPLE REFUSE TO BELIEVE IT?!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/satanism_in_the_vatican.htm
http://www.av1611.org/attack.html
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/audiotestimonies.htm
some times the truth is soooo
BLATANT, AND PEOPLE REFUSE TO BELIEVE IT?!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/satanism_in_the_vatican.htm
http://www.av1611.org/attack.html
Now, what is a disciple? What really is a disciple? Well, a disciple, according to the Scripture, according to the usage of the term if you’ll look this up in Strong’s Concordance, a disciple is a learner. A pupil. A student, if you will. Let me ask you a question. If Jesus call us to be His disciples, and a disciple is a learner, a pupil, a student-quote.
-----------------
Excel.....do you sincerely believe your own words?
well...do you?
seriously?
peter was asked 3 times.
--------
Alright heres the point.
AS A LEARNING/PUPIL "DISICPLE" of Jesus....
its time to test your own words Excel.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/new_international_perversion.htm
YOU USE A FALSE VERSION OF THE so called bible.
TRUE ?
FALSE ?
Your bible...does it
say Jesus is the FATHER, WORD, HOLYGHOST in 1JOHN 5:7?
or does it just say "3" bear witness?
which 3? buddha, confuscious, ghandi?? SERIOUSLY.
or one more for you.
LUKE 4:4
Has your bible...removed "THE WORD OF GOD" out of it?
man shall not live by bread alone, but by the WORD OF GOD!
------------
PREVIOUS POSTS...I ASKED YOU ABOUT WHO YOUR bible says killed Goliath, we all know its David, who does your bible say?
...it does not say David, I bet.
**You post , and post but DO NOT TAKE HEED/ LISTEN/PUPIL DISCIPLE ABOUT TRUTH.
WHY?
WHY IS THIS?
YOU SPEAK OF EVERYONE ELSE OF BEING WATERED DOWN, ETC...
---------
Your previous post of: "LETS MAKE JESUS SMILE" okkkkkkkk.
good sorta, except when you believe certain ways...then ANY actions you do will not seperate you from God..so you are only claiming some seeker friendly, me feel good, he feels good message.
THAT IS LUKE WARMNESS!! at best.
**You said that some of YOUR OWN POSTS SHOULD OFFEND OTHERS, THAT THEY OFFENDED YOURSELF, WOW.
Do you have ears to hear this?
I AM NOW YOUR ENEMY A MAN WHO HAS TOLD YOU THE TRUTH?
--------------
Why am I fired up right now??????????
people that are supposed to be in leadership (likeyourself) saying 1/2 truths!!!
I am your friend, but your message is spiritually offending God.
Am I WRONG????
USE INTELLIGENCE AND SPEAK WITH ME.
YOU HAVE NOT WANTED to talk about things in the past.
I am adressing them now.
A loved one of mine...who was saved, is now soooooo luke warm, and ecumenical it is becuase of 1/2 baked messages partially.
You say one thing, but dont "DICIPLE" LEARN YOURSELF.
Truth cannot be silenced.
God will only speak however to people sooooo long.
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/audiotestimonies.htm
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/new_international_perversion.htm
1Pe 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1Pe 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see [him] not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1Pe 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
I agree.
most people do not give others the time of day, because they are speaking not from a pulpit, or a degree.
Like Jesus the leaders of that time rejected most all he said.
He was only 30-33 for his ministry recorded in the gospels, aside from 12 years of age in the temple preaching likewise.
Hi LAKINGSPHAN,
Stay blessed!!
keep shining for others *^)
-a friend.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/god_is_amazing.htm
Oh how beautiful!!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/god_is_amazing.htm
Oh how beautiful!!