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Yeah that was BS. But at least all other execs didn't get anything
The only good news on this is the fact that NO Executives OR other insiders will receive bonuses. Patriot's top execs have been excluded
The bonuses went to 100 employees (not sure what titles they hold) and 225 employees (operations management, finance, human resources, legal engineering and sales).
I don't think they should do any bonuses so they can finally get things back to normal, but at the same time it's good to see these are going towards employees that may deserve it, and none of the execs get any.
Very good. Thanks Sam
The longer this drags out, the worse it will be for Peabody. They are trying to save "face" by fighting it. Eventually, they will get smart and "settle" this out of court and won't disclose the settlement. Or hell, they could disclose it.
If the Judge rules that Peabody can be looked into further due to this possible deceit, then that's when I think Peabody will look for that out of court settlement. Either way, we all know what Peabody did, especially the retirees. They are probably wanting 600+ million for all of this, but may settle it for 500 to 400 million. Which I'm sure will be fine by PCX. It may go as long as 300 million, but don't think PCX will accept it. Will be the typical low ball settlement with back and forth.
Even if the Judge doesn't rule in PCX favor against Peabody, this still won't stop the suit PCX has against them. The ruling by Judge to look into it further will just speed it up faster. Otherwise it can be another 6 months to a year before that finally settles.
Sam, have you asked your lawyer what happens if the company gets rid of all the stock? Are they able to proceed with the lawsuit to get money back for you and other pre-BK holders? I wasn't sure if you knew that or not. I know they are going forward with it no matter what, just wasn't sure their course of action IF they get rid of it completely and you have nothing.
Interesting article. Looks like a lot of people are going to go after Peabody and Arch Coal. I think Judge may have this looked into further as it looks pretty clear and cut
Arch Coal and Peabody Energy criticize Patriot Coal creation
A new report criticizing Arch Coal and Peabody Energy for creating Patriot Coal was released Tuesday by two groups of religious leaders Interfaith Worker Justice and Religious Leaders for Coalfield Justice.
More than 23,000 working and retired miners, and their spouses, could lose health care benefits, the report warns, especially in the wake of Patriot's recent bankruptcy filing.
"Schemes from the Boardroom: The War by Arch and Peabody On the Aging, Ill and Disabled" argues the two major coal companies moved their union workers to Patriot Coal to avoid paying health-care and other retirement benefits.
The report said that since most of those workers had already retired from Arch or Peabody, very few ever worked a day for Patriot. The spin off of union mines by Arch and Peabody shifted USD 1.6 billion in liabilities onto Patriot Coal.
Mr Ted Erickson, lead author of the report and a retiree from the Homeland Ministries staff of the United Church of Christ, said that "We are deeply concerned about the future of coal miners."
Mr Erickson during a telephone press conference said that "Peabody and Arch have engaged a nonstop battle against collective bargaining. I have seen them undermine the right to negotiate wages and benefits."
Mr John Rausch executive director of the Catholic Committee of Appalachia based in Stanton, Ky, said that "When we think of being American, we think about fairness. But through manipulation of the law, some people exercise power over the workers.”
Mr Rausch said that "Peabody and Arch promised to give health benefits to their workers. Then, through manipulation and bankruptcy laws, they may be able to dump their responsibilities from themselves onto another company, which goes under. Peabody and Arch should continue to have a responsibility to those workers.”
Source – Gazette
you may want to read this. It is turning around for coal. It still has some life left, thanks to India and China
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=87878249
Well actually there was 500 million in equity left. They were valued at 3.5 billion assets and such and only had 3 billion in liabilities. So there was that 500 million of equity left over.
We know over the course of the year it's going down and down due to lawyer fees, etc. But still, they can't go through 500 million in over a year. I think so far they've gone through a little bit of it with all the fees.
In any case, very good notes here and thanks for sharing this info. Always appreciated with info like this
Agreed on the wishful thinking. I think saving money is a good idea and helps. But they can't just get rid of all shares until courts have done their thing. They will hopefully soon file the POR and then we will know what they plan to do. I don't doubt they will be very bad in the 1st draft of it and may say no shareholders get anything at all. If they come out and say otherwise that would be huge. But plan on the 1st draft to be crappy and holders get jack crap. But here's to wishful thinking that they say they will at least issue new warrants to existing holders!
Never mind, I looked it up:
https://www.southeasternbank.com/wp-content/uploads/Shareholder.pdf
Very good read on the point and purpose. This is just an example of another company that did this.
Thanks for sharing, Ernie.
Would this be an indication that they plan on keeping shares intact? Or is that a false translation?
I'm assuming that we really won't know until they release the POR, right?
If that is True, he may be buying up a lot of Shares to be one of the largest shareholders in the company and be able to help decide the fate. If he owns a large percentage of the company, don't think he could take it over, but he could get it to the point where he would have influence.
Oh yeah I know that. I also know the EC is the team to defend and help the shareholders. So when it was shot down and the reason given I was pretty much disappointed.
If that is indeed true, then you have to wonder why the Judge made this ruling like this. It would be very sad that a Judge would pretty much pit the fate of all share holders to get nothing, or barely anything at all. She pretty much just sealed the fate then, unless the management and the board actually keep it intact or issue new warrants
sounds like the Judge is a not a very good one and doesn't care for anyone that invests in a shareholder
hope the Judge is a lot smarter than it sounds and that's what will happen and we get to keep it or get new warrants
Good share Marayatano. Just like I mentioned before, the lawyers had told me it was denied and here is the official order
What I'm taking from this, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that they are saying there is no need for an EC because they think the Board of Directors and Management will represent the best interest of the shareholders.
If that is the case, then I really hope that Management and The Board of Directors will do the right thing (like Sam states) and keep shares intact (which I don't think they will) or at least give new shares in the new company for existing holders.
If they don't, then this would fall on the Judge for messing up the decision to deny the formation of the EC.
Not sure if this is why, but apparently it's on this site:
http://www.microcapuniverse.com/PCXCQ
Seen it all over twitter
Indeed. Lets up patriot follows their example. I still don't think they will keep the stock in tact, but do hope they issue warrants to current holders. Thats better than nothing and the "right" thing to do.
Yeah, of course they have a loss. They aren't doing anything to sell a lot of it. They want to look at sad and pathetic as possible in front of the courts, Debtors, etc.
Unions know they aren't working as much as they have been before. Closing of some of the mines also contributes to it.
As soon as BK is over and they have fixed the issues with Unions, and other law suits (e.g. Peabody, and the ones that the pre-BK share holders have) then they will turn it up to full speed and sell like crazy. This way they can get investors back in and get the stock price back up. After BK they will be profitable big time. They sure in the hell don't want to do it while they are in BK proceedings.
Now they can easily say "if we don't restructure, we are going to be dead in the water" and push the liquidation. Pressure will be on unions. Either restructure, or not only do you lose your jobs, but you lose EVERYTHING. No more retirement checks, health care, nada. Of course, they can jump on the law suit toward Peabody and go after them for all of it.
Peabody better be ready to start writing checks, or settle this quick. Last thing they are going to want is PCX, unions, and all retirees dragging them through the mud. Next thing you know, Peabody will be filing BK.
Very good, Sam. Looks like you and other pre BK should have a good fight then.I won't have that love since i got back in after. Pretty much gambling on my own. Thanks again for the updates
Excellent, thanks for the update, Sam.
So it looks like they are saying they will wait until the end, and then proceed forward with the lawsuit. Did they say it will be dropped IF they keep the warrants or issue new warrants once they come out of BK?
And did I read that correctly, they (the lawyers) aren't getting paid for doing all of this? Obviously they will get something if they win and get something for the holders.
I'm happy to hear he sounds upbeat about it. What did you mean about their confidence in the "upbeat about the liability of PCX hqtrs"? You saying that they've dealt with them in the past, or they feel that PCX management is someone that is "american" and is going to do the "american" thing by not screwing over all of the share holders? Sorry, just trying to make sure I was understanding it correctly
Looks pretty good for you then. You are pre-BK holder, but I'm a post-BK holder. I was a pre-BK, but sold a little before it went into actual BK. I bought back in because I believed they were going to get out of it, or it wouldn't have dropped as much as it did. Hopefully we'll both be able to get new warrants so we can keep our investment where we wanted it.
Unfortunately, you are correct. I was able to talk to the lawyers that is representing the EC and they said it was denied. Judge has not made it "official", but they are waiting for it to come down. The judge ruled on it the same day, April 23rd. With PCX in court all of last week, Judge hadn't completed all of it yet I guess.
EC would be huge, but it may have slowed things down way too much. The lawyers didn't get a reason why it was rejected. But if it was going to slow it down, then I guess that's why. If it would cost more money, then it would have hurt it more I guess. I'm definitely no BK expert.
I'm hopeful in the end that they are going to issue new warrants to old holders. I don't think there are a ton of holders left, so it wouldn't be much anyways. doubt they will keep it in tact and give 35% to the Unions. Probably will issue new warrants and give 35% to them. Who knows though.
We won't know until they release the POR and see what happens next. Liquidation will not be ideal and that's probably why Debtors/Creditors agreed to the 35%. This way this moves things along and they can get it done, so this way they don't run into 2014 with no money. Might get this all done by July time, or shortly after.
I don't mind any STFU shares in the new company. haha
all good points marayatano. Thanks for always sharing the articles too
Excellent. Thanks Sam. Let me know how that goes! We will need them as I have a feeling the EC won't be formed.
You bring up a very good quote and fact. Although it is now the word of the "former" CEO, it should still hold weight in court.
I'm hoping the law suit you are part of is one of the main reasons that it may be successful. It may favor the pre-BK holders, such as yourself, but may help any and all share holders.
I know you mentioned you've tried several times to reach the lawyers you had talked to in the past, but haven't had any luck. You may want to reach out to them again and see what they are saying and doing. It would be nice what they are planning on doing since this was just in court all last week, and the judge will be rendering a decision before the month is over. It will either be before, or right after Memorial Day.
It may be nice to know what "game plans" they have, depending on the decision(s) that will be made. Some good questions to ask:
#1. What are they waiting for?
#2. Why didn't they have a voice in court last week for the share holders?
#3. What are they going to do if Unions strike?
#4. What do they plan to do if they do come to an agreement with unions?
For #4 it almost doesn't matter the outcome, there should be some sort of plan, depending on what the next move. I have no idea what they are waiting for. Yes, they are probably waiting on the judge's decision, but have they explained to you what they will be doing?
I'm sure they are going to want to get a huge pay day, but they aren't going to get jack crap if they don't do anything and no one gets any of their money in this law suit
By the CEO making that statement, he pretty much said it to keep everyone in the stock. Then filed for BK and screwed everyone over. Smart move would be to give every holder whatever value it was at the time of that statement, or whatever the value was BEFORE any of the BK talks were done. I know it won't happen, but it would have been nice if SOMEONE mentioned this at the court proceedings last week. I can't believe no one said anything for the defense of the share holders to represent them.
If not, then it sounds like EC got shot down and not sure what will happen next. The only true "good thing" to do is for them to give warrants to current holders in the new company. if they are trying to do the "right thing", just like the new CEO says he is trying to do "right" by the unions and retirees, then he should do that as well. It would be sad to see him do everything for everyone, EXCEPT for share holders.
Like you mentioned, as well as I have in the past, if PCX screws over all the share holders, why should anyone invest and trust them when they emerge from BK? Yes, I understand people will do it to make money, duh. But no long term investors, or big investors for that matter, would ever want to touch this. I'm sure they won't feel confident that this won't happen to them a few years down the road AGAIN.
That could be true. However that's for the new stock and shares. It would be nice to know if we will be part of that or not. We won't know until this gets closer to the end. That may not be for another 3 to 6 months
I nominate you, brother Sam, to reach out to them and make these statements. You are THE most important person on this argument that deserves to ask these questions, and get answers. You've been invested for years. I can't hold a candle to your situation, and I really hope that you get it all back and more.
Wish there was a way for you, and other share holders, to get these asked and answered
Yeah, I would have liked to been able to email in or call in some questions if I knew about this. Someone needs to ask him about shareholders. What I find odd is how and why no one hasn't. Why hasn't someone asked the CEO and company why they are bailing on all the shareholders
I know, and understand, that their main goal is to keep business IN business with the unions. They don't want them to get COMPLETELY screwed over. But, all questions and comments are only unions, debtors, creditors, etc, not a single is for the shareholders. Nothing for the hard earning americans, such as yourself Sam, that put in their money/savings into a company that you believe in, and invested in. I guess they don't want to screw everyone over, just the shareholders.
Then again, there may be a plan to issue new warrants for current holders. We definitely don't know. It sure looks 99.99% like they won't keep the current stock in tact though.
Looks like a lot of court proceedings all week, so we still have a lot of waiting to do.
I haven't heard back from the law firm. I'm assuming they are all in court this week and returning my call is last on their list. That's fine though. As long as they are there fighting to get the EC approved, then that's more important. I'm sure they will get back to me eventually
Thanks for updating me. I hope you can reach out to those lawyers. Hope that isn't a scam either. I put in the call to McCool Smiths. Waiting to hear back. Typically they called me back later in the day. Usually after 4 or 5pm. If they are in court this week then not sure when and if I will hear back.
indeed. I found the video and his interview very down to earth. He comes across as someone that is from coal and doesn't want anyone to get screwed over. Comes from a long line of coal and done a great job in other companies
unfortunately, it doesn't look like they will keep the stock in tact. From the way he talks, they will give the union 35% in stock in the "new" company, so that means it won't keep the old stock. That doesn't mean that current shareholders won't get new warrants in the new company.
As Ernie mentioned last week, the EC was submitted on Monday and an objection was filed on Tuesday. I don't know what the status of the EC is and when we will find out. I'm going to call the law office that is representing the people that want the EC and see if they can tell us
This week should be interesting as it looks like they are going to be going to court all 5 days and hearing all the arguments and whatnot.
I'll keep posting whatever I hear and find out
Have you talked to your lawyers in your lawsuit, Sam?
not sure if anyone posted this before, but here is some interesting videos by the current President and CEO at PCX
http://www.patriotcoal.com/index.php?view=ben-hatfield-interview
It's still on the docket and scheduled for 4/23 at 11am CST
http://www.patriotcaseinfo.com/hearings.php
It's been on there since the beginning of April.
Ahhh, I thought that's what you meant, but the SDNY threw me off there.
Excellent point and I'm glad in that case that it's no longer in NY
When I talked to the law offices that is representing the people who want to form the EC, they said that this one is pretty cut and dry and very obvious that EC is to be formed. They predicted it should be a done deal. However, he did state that "nothing is ever 100%, so anything can happen". He sounded very confident that it should be formed
Yeah, I didn't respond to the question because I don't know the answer myself. I'm not sure how anyone can tell. However, if it's a huge sum, then it would be smart to keep it intact. But, they may have something that says they will get all of that in new shares after they emerge from BK. They will get it, but normal holders probably won't get anything.
Huh? What are you talking about?
Good article, thanks for sharing this.
From what I can tell, if they can get Peabody to help out with a lot of this stuff for the benefits, it will help out PCX greatly
I also see that they are hinting at giving a steak in the company with the comment of "including an ownership stake in the reorganized company, which is expected to be worth hundreds of millions of dollars" that they don't intend on keeping the stock intact.
Not sure if that means they also plan on providing new warrants to existing holders. Good news is they are trying to get this to the table and resolved so they can get it taken care of and move out of BK
The fact that Peabody is around the $20 is huge. PCX wants to get back up there again. They can't do it by staying in BK process. Mentioning this to the retirees and union that they get all these shares and price can get up that high and they can get money that way can look very tempting.
Equity Committee on April 23rd decision is going to be huge so any existing share holder doesn't get the complete shaft. No doubt people are going to get screwed big time, but hopefully they can reduce the pain as much as they can.
Will have to keep on waiting. Hopefully a week before the hearing of the EC we should see a good spike. After EC is formed we may see some press release and they will try and generate more interest in the company to get investors back. Obviously if the company doesn't plan on keeping stock, or giving shares to existing holders in new company, not many investors will jump right back in until after
It's official, April 23rd shows the Equity Committee hearing
http://www.patriotcaseinfo.com/hearings.php
That would be nice, but it's WAY too early to tell. Think movement is from some of the articles that has been released lately.
good news is the volume is up, bad news is it's going down a little bit as people are getting their quick 10 to 20% and moving on. This won't really get some good movement up like AMR and other Qs until EC is finally created and we get some positive news. There hasn't really been any news at all. Only news is the articles and that TV segment.
Unfortunately, if the unions are removed and all retirees lose everything, that will suck for them. For stock holders it's actually "good" because that gets rid of all those benefits they don't have to pay for and saves them hundreds of millions of dollars. Then they can finally be profitable again. Good for share holders, bad for retirees.
Not sure when all of that is going to happen. This still has several more months. Hopefully EC is formed on April 23rd and shortly after we will start to see what they are planning for recovery. If they post that they don't plan on getting rid of the stock, then it will take off. Won't be for months still. Lot more waiting still
Another great article
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1287061-patriot-coal-bonds-show-potential-in-bankruptcy?source=email_rt_article_title
Patriot Coal Bonds Show Potential In Bankruptcy
Mar 19 2013, 15:51 | about: PCXCQ.OB
Disclosure: I have no positions in any stocks mentioned, and no plans to initiate any positions within the next 72 hours. (More...)
Looking at Patriot Coal (PCXCQ.OB), it would take the gutsiest investor to get involved. Not only is the company in bankruptcy but it has the EPA and United Mine Workers Association breathing down its neck. But, there is a possibility of its high yield bonds maturing in 2018 as a way to play a restructuring (Cusip 70336TAC8).
In a bankruptcy, usually the attorneys get paid first, banks second, secured bond holders third, and a lot of other people last. Often times, the debt holders will become the equity holders when the company emerges from bankruptcy. The 2018 bonds are currently trading at 46 cents on the dollar.
Let's first look at the coal industry. I'll use Patriot's numbers that show that the U.S. share of coal electricity decreased from 48.3% in 2008 to 37.4% in 2012. This precipitated a drop in the price of thermal coal from $161 a ton in 2008 to $58 in today's market. Much of this is due to horizontal fracturing and competing low natural gas prices. A good article from Seeking Alpha on Patriot is included in this link.
Secondly, Patriot's "Asset retirement obligation expense" rose from over $19 million in 2008 to $354 million in 2012. This involved parts of the Clean Water Act and selenium water treatment. You can bet that this will be the norm going forward for the coal industry.
The 2018 bonds are unsecured but have a chance of being worth something on the other side of bankruptcy. A look at the company's liabilities from its 10-K look like this:
December 31, 2012
(Dollars in thousands)
Postretirement benefit obligations, excluding Coal Act $ 1,517,284
Unsecured debt 458,500
Interest payable 4,838
Rejected executory contracts and leases 151,449
Trade payables 78,086
Other accruals 52,150
Total Liabilities subject to compromise $ 2,262,307
The $64,000 question is what will be negotiated in regards to the $1.5 billion in postretirement obligations. The company has obtained what will be up to $802 million in loans that will be senior to everything above.
The nicest asset is the 1.8 billion tons of proved and probable reserves of coal in the ground. A back of the envelope calculation says that 1.8 billion times $58 per ton of coal equals $104.4 billion.
Conclusion: With $104.4 billion of coal in the ground, Patriot's bonds have to be worth something even if they don't have first claim on assets. It's a high risk trade for someone who has the stomach to go through the bankruptcy process.
Interesting article today
http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/370183/3/Patriot-Coal-bankruptcy-debate
By the way, there was supposed to be court hearing today, but was cancelled. I'm not sure if it was due to the marching or what
http://www.patriotcaseinfo.com/hearings.php
It's been updating a lot more frequently. I'm still waiting on confirmation of the Equity Committee which should be for April 23rd.
Despite what a lot of people say, with the recent AMR decision to keep its stock in place, something is telling me PCXCQ may be doing the same thing. Call it a hunch or a gut feeling, but I think they will keep shares in tact, or at least issue new warrants to current holders. Why? Well, all of the law suits that are going on is a key factor. The fact that the CEO made an official statement that they won't go into BK, and then turned around and did. Pretty much shafting all share holders when they went into BK proceedings
Only sure fire way to avoid that law suit, which has merit, is to say "we aren't getting rid of it. If you held pre-BK and still holding, we are keeping it." or "we are going to give you the same shares in the new stock so you don't lose"
It is definitely the right thing to do and should avoid the suits. It would essentially close out all those law suits and those holders would be happy that they get to keep it and can sell if and when it goes higher
Amen, brother Sam.
You should do what I've done. Contact some of the law firms at Patriot Coal and the others for Debtors, and ones representing the Equity Committee. Inform them of this example and see if they can use this as a method to keep shares in tact, OR at least give new warrants in the new shares to existing holders.
They may not do anything, but it wouldn't hurt. I talked to several of the firms already. Each were VERY nice and professional. They took my input and feedback and took note of it. Whatever questions I had, they answered as best as they could, or the pointed me in the right direction.
The Firm representing the people who want the EC is
Michael R. Carney with McCool Smiths
I think the phone # for them is 212-402-9400. You can ask for Michael. You may get a VM and someone else may call you back that can help. Or they can point you in the right direction.
Because EC is not yet formed until maybe April 23rd, they may not be able to do too much. However, contacting them, or getting in touch when they are formed is a possible idea. Getting an opinion from a current holder on this will be key. The EC will probably come out and say what they want to do as well. Who knows, maybe this is what they want as well, to keep it in tact or new shares to existing holders
Contacting all those places gave me something to do and got me the answers I was looking for. Like I said before, it wouldn't hurt to contact them and see what they say/think. They were all very nice and helpful
good luck Sam!
Patriot Coal Receives Safety And Reclamation Awards
BY PR Newswire
— 5:36 PM ET 03/11/2013
ST. LOUIS, March 11, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Patriot Coal Corporation (PCXCQ) today announced that it received three Mountaineer Guardian Safety Awards from the West Virginia Coal Association. The following preparation plants received this prestigious safety award in their respective categories:
Fanco preparation plant and loadout at the Logan County mining complex;
Coal Clean preparation plant at the Panther mining complex; and
Rocklick preparation plant at the Rocklick mining complex.
Mountaineer Guardian Safety Awards are presented each year by the West Virginia Coal Association to mining operations that demonstrate a strong commitment to safety. Inspectors for the West Virginia Office of Miners' Health, Safety & Training nominate facilities based on numerous safety-related criteria, including below average injury incidence rates and effective safety programs.
Additionally, the Company's Guyan surface mine in the Logan County complex received an award from the West Virginia Department of Environmental Protection in recognition of exemplary reclamation.
"The safety of our employees is our highest priority. Our comprehensive safety program is designed to promote a safe workplace with the goal of zero accidents every shift of every day. We are pleased that the success at these three operations is being recognized with Mountaineer Guardian Safety Awards," noted Patriot President and Chief Executive Officer Bennett K. Hatfield. "Moreover, we are delighted to once again be recognized for outstanding reclamation at the Guyan surface mine. This is the eighth reclamation award the Guyan Mine has received over the last five years."
Hey Sam et all,
http://www.patriotcaseinfo.com/hearings.php
You will note, that April 23 finally shows up on the hearing. It doesn't say what is on that date, but per my previous post, this is supposed to be the date for the hearing of the Equity Committee.
May not be confirmed 100% until the beginning of April.