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You spoke too early..... but I think there is a lot more money to be made if the opportunity to sell this morning was lost. Don't beat up on yourself like I am doing.
RuleThis is easy money for the underwriters!!!
This tranche is already sold. And I think we are being prepped for a sale too.
You edge when there is market uncertainty? What do you see as being uncertain in the market place at the moment?
transportation ? well that sucks but it is known!
Input prices it is likely to be flat at worst go up +20. After what management has been through in 2011 well they have the experience to handle that.
Well throw the kitchen sink at them and with surging world market demand and prices they can handle it. So why edge so much?
Its all money bro, Pay me now or pay me later?
That would in all likely be the strategy in order to create a tax loss. Look at what BIOF went for just in NOL? Would it surprise you that the same investor may have designs of putting the 2 entities together? 1 company with strong research and development strength and the other with very low value assets and 2 ports?
Very tempting......
And don't be too surprised to find out that most of the stock offering has already been spoken for. Notice the short selling window and the lack of the customary 10% over initial offer to brokers if initial offer sells well
Sometimes the company taking you over sets the rules before takeover to maximize future tax considerations.
A buyout price of $36 in 3 months would go a long way to soothe hurt feelings......
Buffett's BNSF Sees Bakken-Area Rail Tie-Up Lasting to Year-End
Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.moneynews.com/Companies/fracking-Buffett-BNSF-rail/2014/04/03/id/563407#ixzz2xoxYedM3
The above statement would have a "stabilizing" influence on the environment in which ethanol is produced. The producers of ethanol now have a guideline to plan against shipments, prices, and deliveries and make plans accordingly.
It makes investing in PEIX very interesting and would have positive influence on the companies assets......
1. In house transportation to deliver production goods to its customers
2. The recent deal with regards to the grains storage deal
3. The reopening of the Madera plant and the renegotiating of credit agreements to provide funding requirements for increased production
3. The availability of ports to handle high priced export demand.
4. The company's projects to shift the input requirements from mid-western corn to locally sourced and different types of locally available inputs.
http://www.moneynews.com/companies/fracking-buffett-bnsf-rail/2014/04/03/id/563407/
Thanks Kel3,
I completely missed the sales of BIOF's 2 plants.
If you asking whether the price paid by Greenlight/Brickman is equal to the $100mil in NOL for PEIX I don't have answer for you on that.
As you would appreciate the vale of a company is really what a suitor is willing to pay for it. So based on the AM pricing activities in BIOF, that company gained 50% more value in one day. BIOF has 2 plants with combined capacity of 220 million barrels per annum. This is about the same as PEIX would have with Madero plant on stream.
How much additional investments would the nes investors have to make to get these 2 plants running to faceplate capacity? valuation theory says that the value of PEIX is the present value of its total earnings.The NOL for PEIX only helps to make its value much higher. And remember PEIX is earning positive cash flow and is currently profitable.
Given the choice between PEIX and BIOF I will choose PEIX any day.
Hi Kel,
Having more tankers is part one of the solution- The easy part. Part 2 laying down new rail tracks is the hard part. The trains need to travel safely on available tracks but unfortunately most of the major tracks are at full capacity. So the next economic means to ship ethanol is by barge and this is where it get very interesting. PEIX has 2 deep harbours. Stay invested in PEIX and you gonna do well.
For production ethanol not much.PEIX has tank truck and storage tanks in many of the western states to carry and store its factory produced ethanol.
As you know about 55% of the ethanol sold by PEIX is sold as 3rd party product and most of these are destine to Mid-Western and Northeastern states. Unfortunately most of these travel by Tank rails or tank trucks that piggy back on freight trains.
With regards to corn I believe an estimate of 80-85% comes from the mid-west and delivered by rail in grain wagons.
Yes the stock put on a show late afternoon to let us know its still got the moves!!
I think if the railway companies are able to clear the backlog of ethanol filled tank cars it would help stabilize prices at about 20% below current levels.
The industry is sure to add more capacity by restarting some of the ethanol plant that were mothballed last year.
Heber,
Sorry I spelt your name wrong the last post.
At this very moment this is what the tape is showing regarding REX
REX 54.00 -0.42 This is what most people see. Well here is another story same company same time
REX
53.85 -0.57 (-1.05%)
Real-time: 11:16AM EDT
NYSE real-time data - Disclaimer
Currency in USD
Range 51.12 - 56.24
I see $5.00 waiting to be made. Any part of that at all is good for me and that is what I strive for.
Cheers
Heber,
Sorry I spelt your name wrong the last post.
At this very moment this is what the tape is showing regarding REX
REX 54.00 -0.42 This is what most people see. Well here is another story same company same time
Dow Jones 16,276.03 0.04%
S&P 500 1,850.65 -0.10%
Cyclical Co... -0.13%
REX 53.85 -1.05%
3.85 -0.57 (-1.05%)
Real-time: 11:16AM EDT
NYSE real-time data - Disclaimer
Currency in USD
Range 51.12 - 56.24
I believe because of the funds requirements pps will not stay low to long and if PEIX management has not hedged its sales then 1st qtr is going to be a thing of great beauty.
Herber,
I have confirmed with the company that warrant holders are indeed cashing in. And for good reason:
They have a ready buyer in large institutions mutual funds and ETF's who now have to add PEIX to their portfolio mix so that they can duplicate
the alternative energy index. Such volumes would crater the pps if these institutional demands were to dry up. I am predicting pps at $22.00 after 1st qtr 2014 cc.
Hi Free,
Thank you for sharing your grand vision with us.
With the dawning of the age of cellulose base ethanol production I fear that the case of the supremacy of corn is already being challenged.
Computer based trading algorithms are squeezing investment returns. The retail investor has all the decks stacked against him but all hope is not lost. If we can come together and put our collective minds to work for our best interest, we would be able to thrive in these markets.
Let's stay in touch and share ideas we just may beat the big boys at their own games.
Cheers
Hi Heber,
Thank you for all the information gems you sent me. PEIX is a very interesting company with great profit potential. In the era of electronic trading here computers make most of the trading decisions retail investors such as us need to come together to figure out trends faster than computers. We need to come together and use our collective intelligence to obtain positive returns from our investments. I look forward to finding a few leading indicator that would help us stay ahead of the computer trading games.
Cheers
You are quite right. The more information we can get the better chance we have at making good investment decisions.
I am off to bed.
Good Luck
"Either way this PPS should be at LEAST $20.00 a share when Annual comes out!!"
I am sure you meant 1st qtr?
Super,I think if we do this analysis right it will lead us to results that would allow us to make good decisions
I trade options and bought a ton of PEIX Call contracts
02/26/2014 15:46:59 Bought PEIX 14Mar22 C 10.00 @ $0.55 Executed Detail
02/26/2014 15:46:57 Bought PEIX 14Mar22 C 10.00 @ $0.55 Executed Detail
I sold
02/27/2014 15:48:52 Sold PEIX 14Mar22 C 10.00 @ $4.80 Executed Detail
02/27/2014 15:48:49 Sold PEIX 14Mar22 C 10.00 @ $4.80 Executed Detail
With good dd I may have a repeat performance.
On Monday I made a call to the plant to make sure that shipping backlog due to the freeze was not having an impact on their 1st quarter performance. I was told that nearly all their productions were sold to Western markets and they have not had much trouble in delivering those. However they also had a large market for 3rd party sales in the mid-west and NE states and "those like sale by other outfits have been impacted by the weather". So I set out to find out how much of an impact this could have on our performance. Some of the issues I needed to find answers for were what was the arrangement between the manufacturing companies and PEIX. Did we take ownership at the factories or are we just acting as middlemen?
Well I thought instead of going at it alone I would ask for the board's help......this is what got me in "trouble".
So I decided to build a model that would try to forecast the company's. Here are few questions that I would need to have answers for:
Does the company hedge its inputs costs?
What does the typical order look like
What % of sales is on private contract bases and if large how do they handle increase input cost at time of shipment or when order is placed?
Who pays for transportation customer or PEIX?
How much raw material is locally sourced?
Is the low cost sugar being used in current
production?
Once I had answers to these question I could build a model that would give estimate with 95% confidence level.
As you saw today with REX's performance it is not just increased profits that affect stock prices but also how a company manages the expectations of its market!!!
Well super money, I just saw this post on the yahoo board. t15509 1st post in his yahoo history Jan 2, 2014 - and questions like ray trying to get ready to build a case , based on nothing to attack other posters ?
would you tell me how much you think they will earn this quarter jt , and full year 2014 ?
do you have a position in the stock ? and is it long or short ?
what is your purpose in bring questionable info from your "phone call" ?
where were you Prior to your IDs born on date ?
what is your price target for 2015 ? Less
See what I mean?
Supermoney,
Sorry it was not this board but the yahoo board.
they felt threatened by the questions and the answers became aggressive and offensive as i pressed for answers. See posting under Need Help (Mar 25, 2014 12:05 PM by jt15509)
Hi Waterloo,
Great attempt at understanding the pieces that make Pacific Ethanol what it is today.I have just start putting a model together after I realized that most of the longs just didn't seem to know enough about the structure of the company to make educated and intelligent market decisions. They were simple cheerleaders with with a gang like mentality.
I shall be going through this tonite. Let me know if there are any specific areas that you would want me the focus on.
Meanwhile if you can send me the excel spread sheet I shall be able to see how best to massage these numbers and the underlying assumptions.Let me know and I shall send you my email address.
Cheers,
Jt
It is like 3d printing of serious Benjamins!!!
I get it. You talking about date some information on the number of outstanding shares comes out.
Cheers
Thanks Super
Super,
I take it you mean quarterly not annual?
J
U.S. ethanol makers are banking on export markets as they grapple with Obama administration plans to cut U.S. consumption requirements, but the industry is hampered by a distribution structure built almost exclusively around the domestic market.
Archer Daniels Midland Co. ADM +0.26% , Green Plains Renewable Energy Inc. GPRE +3.27% and other ethanol producers are trying to boost sales to Brazil, Mexico, Asia and the Middle East, in part by cutting costs to make the corn-based biofuel more price-competitive overseas.
Exports could reach one billion gallons this year, increasing their share of U.S. output to 7% from 5%, as lower corn prices help producers sell ethanol more cheaply to foreign buyers, according to the Renewable Fuels Association, a trade group.
But the $44 billion industry's efforts to expand could be limited, analysts say, because the bulk of U.S. ethanol plants are located in the Midwest to be close to the corn supply rather than near shipping ports. That is driving up costs to transport the fuel.
The ramp-up comes as the Environmental Protection Agency weighs final approval of a proposal that would for the first time cut the annual requirement for ethanol in gasoline in the U.S. The EPA, which proposed the change in November, is expected to make a final decision this spring after a public-comment period that ended Tuesday.
The ethanol industry and farm-state supporters are lobbying the White House to reverse its proposal, which would mark one of the sector's biggest setbacks to date. The plan would require about 13 billion gallons of corn ethanol in the nation's fuel mix this year, lower than the 14.4 billion originally intended under a 2007 law. In explaining its move, the EPA said the levels mandated in the law are difficult to meet because of a lack of demand for gasoline blends containing more than 10% ethanol and sluggish U.S. gasoline consumption overall.
Export markets offer a potential lifeline as more countries enact policies to reduce dependence on conventional oil, industry executives say. They cite, for example, the Philippines, where a policy encouraging greater use of renewable fuel led to an eightfold increase in imports of U.S. ethanol in the first 10 months of 2013 from a year earlier, according to the RFA.
In November, U.S. ethanol exports reached the highest monthly level since March 2012, helped by increased shipments to Canada, China, India and Mexico, the RFA said. Despite recent gains, exports for all of 2013 were expected to drop from a year earlier, the second straight decrease.
Many ethanol companies declined to discuss their export strategies, citing competitive factors. But executives have voiced optimism in interviews and earnings calls that exports can help the industry offset weak growth at home.
Enlarge Image
Ethanol infrastructure is largely Midwest-based. Shown, an Archer Daniels Midland tanker in Decatur, Ill. Bloomberg News
"I'm confident we'll be able to compete," said Todd Becker, president of Omaha-based Green Plains, the fourth-largest U.S. ethanol maker by capacity. "I didn't build this business on government policy. The EPA announced their reduction proposal, and a week later, I bought two more ethanol plants."
Green Plains, which owns a dozen ethanol plants and has about $3.5 billion in annual revenue, expects that 10% of its production will be exported this year. The company only has released nine months of financial results from last year, but said very little of its volume in that period was exported.
Patricia Woertz, chief executive of ADM, a leading U.S. ethanol producer and one of the world's largest grain processors, said at an investor conference in November that the company can withstand a cut in the federal ethanol-blending rules. "We'll get through it," she said. "The opportunity is to grow [exports]."
ADM aims to drum up more exports by cutting energy costs so it can produce ethanol more cheaply, Chief Financial Officer Ray Young said recently.
The industry, despite its uncertain outlook, is enjoying one of its most profitable periods in several years due to a roughly 40% decline in corn prices over the past year.
Profit margins for ethanol producers at the start of this year were about 81 cents per gallon, a reversal from a net loss of 7 cents a gallon a year earlier, according to Iowa State University's Center for Agricultural and Rural Development. The industry in 2012 reeled from a spike in corn costs due to a historic drought in the Midwest.
The recent drop in corn prices is helping the U.S., the world's second-largest ethanol exporter after Brazil, sell the biofuel about 10 cents to 30 cents less per gallon than Brazilian ethanol, which is made from sugar, said Citigroup analyst Aakash Doshi. U.S. ethanol futures prices have fallen about 20% in the past year to about $1.90 a gallon.
U.S. ethanol exports could hit one billion gallons this year if the Obama administration cuts the ethanol mandate. That would mark the second-highest amount after 2011.
Still, ethanol companies face many headwinds in trying to expand U.S. exports. Shipments to the European Union, a key buyer, have all but ended since the EU last year imposed a five-year tariff of about $83 per metric ton on U.S. ethanol after the European Commission, the EU's executive body, alleged that producers sold the biofuel below cost. U.S. biofuels groups, including the RFA, said the claims were unsubstantiated and blasted the tariff as "blatant protectionism."
The U.S. faces stiff competition from Brazil. The South American country's exports of ethanol to be used as fuel will rise 7% to 792.5 million gallons this year from 2013, the fourth straight annual increase, estimates the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Together, the U.S. and Brazil account for the bulk of global exports.
U.S. suppliers will need to invest in plants near rivers and shipping ports or improve their ability to get ethanol to shipping lanes to compete better against Brazil and other producers in the long-term, said Peyton Feltus, president of Randolph Risk Management, an energy consulting firm in Dallas.
"The plants should be located where they could be serviced by water and rail," Mr. Feltus said. "Most are truck-in and truck-out." Unless corn prices continue to fall sharply, he said, it will be tough for the U.S. to stay "competitive on the world market."
I was in CYTR many years ago.
I think most of us come from a background the is built on integrity. If that standard no longer applies then it behooves you to focus more on your own dd and less on the boards.
Sorry Mr.I just returned to the board. My take away from the story connected to the link has nothing to do with the 2 companies highlighted in the article. What I found interesting was how we sometimes allow ourselves to be influenced by such publications that appear in seeking alpha and nyt. The influence pps sometimes more than we wish to acknowledge. I believe the lesson I draw from the article is to spend more time doing my own dd and less time on the boards.
Cheers
Seriously you all need to read this
Google Behind The Scenes With Dream Team, CytRx And Galena........
And now you know how Rapp's posts might fit into the big picture
"Koehler said the company wants to source a percentage of feedstock, perhaps 15 percent of the corn and grain sorghum grown nearby, as it is doing near Stockton."
This would mean lower shipping cost and less dependence on railway lines for input delivery. Substitution of cheap beet sugar to corn would also help improve overall costs. Just these 2 improvements would help increase margins substantially. Starting up the Madera would allow overhead burdens to be spread on a 25% more output.
Carry over losses will reduce tax payments 100% ownership means we get to keep all the profit and by paying down dept well that means lower interest expense and using the cash flow to repair balance sheet means reduced interest rates and there fore reduced interest expenses. Greatly increased cash flow means management can now focus on marketing and offering speciality ethanol to cosmetic and other uses and increase its market penetration in higher margin markets.
We would be able to increase our export business by guaranteeing fob deliveries since we do not have to depend on the railway lines for raw material shipment. here is where it get interesting. By improving our balance sheet and cash flow we can make good use of the deep harbours in a two way trade arrangement.
Ships coming in to load up ethanol and deliver corn input if it is to management's to have those input imported. (Where are ethens?)
I wish I were in Koehler's shoes just for the shear excitement and fun of it all.
Hi board.
I just had a chat with Larry A. Cerutti, Esq.
5 Park Plaza, 14 th Floor
Irvine, California 92614
(949) 622-2700 / (949) 622-2739 (fax)
It was his office that prepared and filed this this information with the SEC.
They have no such information in the copies they filed.
It seems like this extra bit of information was attached by
The folks at www.conferencecalltranscripts.org and the March 24th date should have read Feb 24, 2014 instead.
The above information was disclosed in a filing to the SEC. To see this filing in its entirety, click here. Pacific Ethanol reported its earnings on Feb 24, 2014.
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