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They will show up in your account as status: "restricted until xx/xx/xxxx". In my account (Merrill Lynch) , it is under group called "OTHER" instead of group called "Stocks". When the restricted date is expired, they automatically get moved into group called "Stocks" and I can trade them
KATX will not own the stock when it is given to us. The ex-dividend PPS of KATX will be reduced by the value of the Stock we are given (whatever PPS value they put on it on that date).
So, yes, KATX PPS will momentarily reduce (hopefully only momentarily until market determines extra value in KATX). The off-set is that BVIG PPS will be added to our portfolio. The hope being that the ex-dividend PPS of KATX and the market value of BVIG at that point will be equal to the previous day value of KATX or better!
We are not saying long term!! Dividends cause an immediate drop in value on ex-dividend day, market determines if value will increase. Foa a good company, they usually increase before next dividend date. That is why I have dividend stock in my portfolio so I can increase stock holdings and benefit from market valuation increase as well.
Com'on EROCK
I was referring to ex-dividend date and that is how it always happens. Ex-dividend date means stock starts trding without dividend vale built in!!!! That is how it is!!
Any other time, it can go UP OR DOWN!!
I trust we will see increase, but no guarantee.
Also, I seem to recollect that you said price would zoom up with a PR (talked about 100% increase, did not see it happen). So I guess we both are not 100% sure of anything!! In fact we are decreasing every day since PR so I guess we still have no surety!!
Sorry to argue as well, but:
At ex-dividend date, PPS for KATX will probably drop. We will also get shares in BVIG at the same time.
Overall PPS at ex-dividend date will be:
(PPS of Katx - dividend value of Handcamp) + PPS of BVIG.
Overall value may increase but not the entire value of BVIG at ex-dividend date. So, in reality, we do not get 100% free shares immediately. In time, Total PPS may exceed original Total PPS of KATX and BVIG on ex-dividend date. But no sure thing until we know value of Handcamp drilling. Then all bets off!!
You and I are hoping and trusting for the best but there is still a portion of risk as in ANY STOCK.
Regards
I think you are being very caustic on this subject. Evewryone has a right to their opinion. We can be long shareholders and still have a right to our opinion.
As a long term holder, I might want to take some profits (to pay for my house upgrade this year). This method makes it much more risky and less timely for me to do this. I also am concerned about the tax rates we will face in a year which will be substantially more than they are now.
You will reply by saying sell now! However I feel I should have had the same right to move some of my stock at my timing without being penalized.
I beleive in Ken and his mgmt. However, I also HAE THE RIGHT TO EXPRESS CONCERNS and will do so as long as you berate those who do not agree 100% with you and you SELECTS.
WE ARE NOT FLIPPERS, WE ARE CONCERNED SHAREHOLDERS WHO ARE LONG TERM AND MAY NEED FLEXABILITY. QUIT
I had to pay taxes because it was considered income as part of my contract. I paid income tax each year on the dividends I receive that year as stock even though I could not exercise my options until 1-5 years after receiving them. After 1 year, I could exercise 20% for next 5 years.
Not true, I was the one proving that BVIG is tradeable!!
PVX gives me a monthly dividend in stock! This is a oil & gas trust stock from Alberta. I can trade the dividend stock, the minute I receive it in my account!!!
To every shareholder in KATX:
I have been reading the posts. ALthough I am not as adamant as SNOW, there is some logic in his concern.
I had this happen to me when I was given restricted stock. I had to pay tax on the value at time of receipt of the stock (hope this is not the case here for most, does not affect me as I have this stock in an IRA). It was restricted and went from a basis cost of $74.30 a share to $40.33 by the time I could unload them. I was able to hold and finally sold at $60.25 which was a 3 year high and has since gone back to $39.00.
Some people such as SNOW put a high value on not being a master of their destiny. We all thought the price would jump on a PR(most expected at least 2x to 10x) and now we know that is not the case because we really do not have control of those shares for some time. In addition, we also need to hold KATX until we get BVIG shares. We need to also hope that the value of KATX will be retained once BVIG shares are dispersed. Snow has the right to be concerned that KATX will lose value as it has lost the initial high expectation claim to BVIG. Snow also is right to be concerned that BVIG value is uncertain enough to make a person uneasy. KATX its self is an example. If you bought in May 2009, you could have paid $.44 or higher after the Steads took over. Look where we are now!!
Most of us Longs (and I intend to be long) bought in low enough to be happy. If I had kept my initial buy of 2k shares only, I would still be in the RED. However I talked to Ken and had enough confidence in him and his dilemna to load up and now am very happy no matter what.
Snow, I too would like to have seen KATX hold shares, but it is not going to happen, so lets move on.
To others: lets respect our different views and trust that Ken, his advisors and others will do right for us.
This is my sermon for the day. Sorry EROCK, I could no longer refrain from the discussion!!!
Tested BVIG stock buy, bought at $.67 so they are shares for sale in BVIG!!! Not sure what reason there would be to buy a lot at this point.
EROCK:
Sorry for this mess:
I did not say:
"this whole thing (the shell, the property transfer, the shares, etc.) are ALL ABOUT KAT EXPLORATION and bringing "significant valuation" for KATX sharholders. "
If you read my initial post, that was an exerpt with quote I included from another post.
We are on the same page, with slight differences in how we see "Black and White".
I will refrain from future discussion as I have strong feelings about KATX and have no interest in feeling less about it!
EROCK:
You must be drinking smooch down there in SC. I have been a radical advocate of Ken Stead since May 28, 2009 when I first purchased KATX and shortly after had a conversation with Ken.
I object to you trying to insinuate I did not know how well the Steads are looking out for our interests.
If you can find 1 post that I have that says otherwise I will be quiet. Even if you are a MOD, you have no right to accuse me and attack me incorrectly. If you were not a MOD, I am sure you would be reprimanded for such slander. However, your position makes you immune and I am sorry for you.
I believe in KATX, have a huge investment in KATX and will be as long as you I am sure.
Lets both support KATX and the Steads instead of belittering each other which this dialogue has gotten to for both of us.
I think ALL shareholders should be positive about KATX and I have/am/will be.
And if Wisconsin, holds 1/4 then Washington is holdin 1/3. AhHAH
EROCK:
I hope you will apologize for saying I am incorrect in saying KATX (and we as shareholders) own shares in BVIG.
Here is your proof that I am correct!!!
This told me right away, that this whole thing (the shell, the property transfer, the shares, etc.) are ALL ABOUT KAT EXPLORATION and bringing "significant valuation" for KATX sharholders.
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken is CEO of BVIG. Kat Exploration right now is by far the majority shareholder, holding approx 96% of the outstanding as of the date of the filing.
Total outstanding date of filing 67,644,500.
KATX owns 65,000,000 which is, as the filing says approx 96%.
When KATX gets the other 96 million, the total outstanding will be 163,644,500 and KATX will own approx 98.38%, Ken will own 2,264,000 or approx .014%.
It ends up with the total outstanding of BVIG once the 96 million shares are issued as:
163,644,500 total outstanding
161,000,000 are restricted belonging to KATX
2,264,000 are restricted belonging to Ken
-----------
380,000 float I assume all free trading.
wshaw14:
I AGREE 100%. It is ludicrous to receive shares when KATX can preserve our value without any additional risk!!!!
Erock:
Lets get things straight. You and I own stock in KATX. As such we are "SHAREHOLDERS" of KATX. A SHAREHOLDER essentially has a part ownership in a public company!.
KATX has given shares in BVIG in exchange for Handcamp rights. Therefore at this point we are now shareholders in BVIG via this transaction as they belong to KATX and we are "Minority sharteholders" of KATX!!!
The Steads are "MAJORITY stockholders(not owners)" and control future of both stock activities. However we are also effected by every activity now of both BVIG and KATX. I trust the STEADS to control my destiny in both stocks!!!
relikwie
I stated yesterday that it is obvious that we have 2 differewnt drill programs!!!! The first was for a small effort. The bid would be for a more substantial effort (probably needed 3 biuds to satisfy financier obligations).
Erock:
Not accurate again. Stead owns a majority position in each. However, we shareholders now own a similar position in both companies that we owned in KATX before the the transaction date of June 4, 2010.
Leaving BVIG in KATX assets(which is what I have said will be done in several posts before anyone else) means our ownership position DOES NOT CHANGE!!!
I trust Ken to do right and I believe my ownership in KATX will not be adversely affected by any activity in BVIG while stock is restricted in BVIG.
Looks like a possability that you and I can assist Pete Carroll on more than 1 time on Sundays at Qwest Field due to some "free funds". I could meet you at the Porter's BBQ spot in the stadium and watch the game there as well.
I don't want to be in 12 man zone as it is too far from sidelines for my liking.
I believe that shares will become unrestricted and available for sale after a period of time. The value of BVIG will increase when there is mining taking place or they sell off BVIG as a spin-off sale.
To TFN
P.S. For all those who state that KATX owns BVIG can you produce one document that says that? TIA
You may be partly correct. The sale notice gives KATX current majority ownership based on existing shares. Share ratio could change. However, I TRUST that KEN Stead will do right for KATX shareholders and make sure they are not cheated out of anything!!!!
You misunderstand completly!
You do not have to buy BGIV to get an interest in Handcap. KATX can own BVIG shares(and thus Handcap), and the value is applied to our Katx shares as shareholders in KATX. This way there is no restriction on out stock, and we also get no dilution in BVIG that we cannot address because BVIG is restricted!!!!!
Whatever the correct scenario, Steads and advisers are protecting our interests. Getting BVIG shares does not protect our interests.
I have lost value on every scenario (3x) that you suggest and would think twice about long if your scenario rings true. I stand on my scenario, so we will see in the near future. I want to protect KATX value and this is the only sure way to do it (KATX holds BVIG stock, as well as future similar scenarios). If they sell off spin-off, then we will benefit in dividends or increased shareholder value!!!
Not quite correct. We own KATX stock. KATX ownd BVIG stock. I do not believe we will automatically gat BVIG stock. Dilution factor is whar Steads will avoid which would happen if the BVIG stock was given to us.
The answer is as simple as the fact they are 2 different drilling contracts!! One early for some exploratory drilling, the other for Handcamp!!
I will make a 100k shares of KATX available to you guys on Monday at a generous share price of $.75/share if you want to buy at any price as you say. They are shares I bought on the downtrend the last few days so you can get back in as you want to!!
I said this last night right after the news was found and I think it is the best way to avoid restricting value shareholders would have!!!!
KATX could indefinitely hold shares they own in BVIG and they would be treated like retained earnings in KATX. THe value of KATX would increase based on value of BVIG without the need to "distribute appropriate shares of BVIG" to shareholders.
This seems like an appropriate alternative to dilution through share distribution.
It would be possible for KATX to hold the shares in BVIG and they would be treated like retained earnings in KATX. THe value of KATX would increase based on value of BVIG without the need to "distribute appropriate shares of BVIG" to shareholders.
This seems like an appropriate alternative to dilution through share distribution.
It would be possible for KATX to hold the shares in BVIG and they would be treated like retianed earnings in KATX. THe value of KATX would increase based on value of BVIG without the need to "distribute appropriate shares of BVIG" to shareholders.
This seems like an appropriate alternative to dilution through share distribution.
Dag...
This is not totally accurate. Special dividends have been sometimes paid out based on existing shareholders. I have received a special dividend which was paid out post announcement but had an ex-dividend date as of the transaction date (essentially the date spin-off sale was completed).
I admit I got so scared, I upped by shares by 10%. Guess my fears were real!!!. I did not want to miss it ALL....
My opinion:
1. Ken Stead is primary stockholder in BVIG (holds most of the shares) and voting control. Assume he is holding shares on behalf of KAT Exploration(aka KATX). No formal transfer taken place yet or knowledge of what proceeds Ken Stead used to pay for BVIG ($300k). I believe Ken did this on behalf of KAT Exploration.
2. KATX sold Handcamp property (owned by KATX Exploration, aka KATX)to BVIG(shell company acquired by Stead) in a pure stock exchange for total of 161,000,000 shares.
3. Immediate transfer of 65,000,000 shares to KATX and further payment of 96,000,000 shares at a later dated. Present value of BVIG shares is $.71 Assume initial share value to be around $.71.
3. KATX investors will receive some value for transaction (not stated as to what at this point). We have to assume some change in value of KATX (positive/negative??) and future ownership in BVIG (positive/negative)
4. I assume we will hold shares in 2 stocks when everything clears on this 1 transaction deal.
5. Ultimately, we will benefit based on assumptions that Steads and their advisors have done this in the past with added value for stockholders holding shares as we now hold in KATX.
Any other thoughts??
Was able to pick some up at .169 at opening. Go long KATX!! Holding on to all I have!!
I see we're #9 now, why #31 in your post??
My guess is .2515
Then .35 on Monday
Then .50 on Tuesday
I think your response is very flawed!!!!
When I hire a specialist(and I have hired hundreds over my work history), I look at their experience to determine if the value is there for the most accurate effort for my project. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EXPERIENCE AND HEAD KNOWLEDGE!!!
I believe that KAT Exploration did their due diligence and hired the person most appropriate for their projects, not just a person who might do the job.
I'm there with Biochemist.
Bought 200k shares at $0.0028 and have averaged up to about$0.03.
Made <> $60k since May 1.
Still holding for my beach house in Hawaii.
I am an old timer, retired and happy. I will gladly take a $5.00 PPS and lounge on the beach in my 2nd home in Hawaii (paid for by KATX) for most of the year, with odd trip to my kids' homes. Lets go long KATX!!
It occurred after this trade and then was replaced by 2000 stock trade at same price of .139. if you notice, price was upped by .004 so there is a correlation between 140 shares and the uprice of the stock. This is a signal to do stock price adjustment.
Price shares Trade Time
0.135 140 OTO 14:22:43
These type of trades are used by day traders to send signals to other day traders and to exchange shares based on exact trade only to set price levels. They should be banned! I believe in free capitalism and do not like those who try to manipulate stocks like KATX. Hold your shares and let these people lose their shirts on these poorly based trades. Long KATX and we will see rewards we only dreamed of 6 months ago.