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Got a link to all those quotes tinner? If they're true, he's toast. With the past 7 years as a backdrop, no way this country will turn the WH over to another one who's taking orders from above. I know conservatives who won't vote for that again.
>>>he'll run rings around anyone the Democrats put on stage.<<<
Looking forward to it.....especially the rings he'll run on foreign policy issues.
Huckabee calls for border crackdown in response to Bhutto's assassination
"We ought to have an immediate, very clear monitoring of our borders and particularly to make sure if there's any unusal activity of Pakistanis coming into the country.
http://www.radioiowa.com/gestalt/go.cfm?objectid=1F024482-C3A1-C582-4142B3E107EAC902
Huckabee Clueless After Bhutto’s Death, Says Pakistan Has ‘Eastern Borders’ With Afghanistan.
Note to Huckabee: Pakistan shares its “eastern border” with India, not Afghanistan."
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/28/huckabee-pakistan/
>>>that's based on the 2006 mid term elections where Democrats won big. Obviously, if that's the way the public votes in 2008, the election won't be close.<<<
What's that got to do with anything? Isn't 46% of something 46% no matter which political party is more popular for the moment?
>>>if blue states are better in all of these categories, mathematically, it could only be, because of Replican incomes, education,<<<
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?Message_id=25615020&txt2find=postgraduate
So now you're saying that the "immoral" lifestyles you cited in your first post doesn't really have so much to do with it but it's the arrogance, the fixation on material things and the fact that Bush was elected twice. Problem with that theory is that terrorism didn't start with George Bush and that much of the western world lives in capitalistic sin but is for the most part left alone by islamic thugs.
I agree about the arrogance but I think they're pissed off by the arrogance associated with the invasion of muslim countries and the slaughter of muslim people rather the arrogance of driving 5-ton cars to the grocery store and building 6,000 sq.ft homes for a family of 2. They've said so themselves........repeatedly, but for some reason about 30% of americans won't accept it.
"In the video, bin Laden accused Bush of misleading Americans by saying the attack was carried out because Al Qaeda "hates freedom." The terrorist leader said his followers have left alone countries that do not threaten Muslims.
"We fought you because we are free ... and want to regain freedom for our nation. As you undermine our security we undermine yours," bin Laden said.
He said he was first inspired to attack the United States by the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon in which towers and buildings in Beirut were destroyed in the siege of the capital.
"While I was looking at these destroyed towers in Lebanon, it sparked in my mind that the tyrant should be punished with the same and that we should destroy towers in America, so that it tastes what we taste and would be deterred from killing our children and women," he said.
"God knows that it had not occurred to our mind to attack the towers, but after our patience ran out and we saw the injustice and inflexibility of the American-Israeli alliance toward our people in Palestine and Lebanon, this came to my mind," he said."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html
Been to western Europe lately? Their crime rate is lower and they treat their poor much better but as for the rest of the criteria you use, they wade in sleaze and sin compared to the US and should be terrorist magnets if your theory had any merit.
Ever heard of a terrorist attack in the Netherlands where everything goes including window shopping for prostitutes, gay marriage, no questions asked abortions and a government that considers drug use a health issue rather than a legal issue?
>>>That equates to a large group of people who are easily lead/influenced - the same as uneducated people everywhere<<<
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/states/US/H/00/epolls.0.html
Looks like republicans do better than democrats in finishing high school but lose in every other education category beyond that, especially postgraduate where they lag by 17%. Could explain why so many of them still admire the decider. Hard to find a better ambassador for the poorly educated.
>>>Assisting in nation building is surely a more noble effort than the bomb dropping Clinton did.<<<
Thought some pictures would look nice with that assurance of yours. These are from the nation building effort in Beirut that was closely coordinated between Israel and the Bush administration http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14540.htm.
"Noble" is what comes to mind?
>>>But some of those states are red or blue by ridiculously low margins, Florida and Ohio, for example<<<
Exactly, which is why I didn't include them in the top 10 list. Look at the states I mentioned with the greatest return on the tax dollar........some getting almost twice the amount they paid in. Those are not marginally red states but so intensely red that most democratic presidential candidates hardly bother to campaign there. The most intensely blue states on the other hand receive around 75 cents for every tax dollar they pay. You see no pattern here?
>>>I'm not aware of any data that supports your contention that blue states are paying for red states welfare<<<
You are now if you bother to click here: http://www.nemw.org/taxburd.htm
Would be nice if you had the courage to acknowledge that some of the blue states you refuse to live in and that you predict will bankrupt themselves from overspending (CA, CT, IL, MA and NJ) receive about 75 cents return on their tax dollar while most of the red states you predict will save america reap the benefits. Honorably mentions include core districts of the republican party's backbone such as AL 1.64, MS 1.70, OK 1.43, WV 1.75, VA 1.60, ND 1.64, SD 1.43 and AK 1.80.
Takes a special kind of fanatic to look at these numbers (widely published for decades) and conclude that the blue states are dragging us into financial ruin and the red states are our only hope.
>>>I've learned that no matter what I come up with, you'll eventually ignore it. You still owe me a response from a couple of days ago.<<<
Take a number. He owes me two from last week.
>>>so I would say yes, we have been down this road before<<<
Exactly......and here's the followup as promised:
"A plot to blow up planes in flight from the UK to the US and commit "mass murder on an unimaginable scale" has been disrupted, Scotland Yard has said. It is thought the plan was to detonate explosive devices smuggled in hand luggage on to as many as 10 aircraft.
According to BBC sources the "principal characters" suspected of being involved in the plot were British-born."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4778575.stm
The key figures here were British-born citizens and residents meaning they've spent their entire lives in a flourishing democracy. Which (again) begs the question: What makes you think a democratic Iraq will have any effect on the mindset of muslims who hate america?
Of course he is and as he's been told before, the best proof is the terror plot that was foiled in the UK last year.
A plot to blow up planes in flight from the UK to the US and commit "mass murder on an unimaginable scale" has been disrupted, Scotland Yard has said. It is thought the plan was to detonate explosive devices smuggled in hand luggage on to as many as 10 aircraft.
According to BBC sources the "principal characters" suspected of being involved in the plot were British-born.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4778575.stm
Bush republicans/necons hate this story since it blows their entire argument for the Iraq war and more war in the ME right out of the water. Which might be why the "liberal media" never made much of it.
>>>a free and democratic Iraq is the keystone to building free and democratic governments in the barbaric world of Islam<<<
So the lack of freedom and democracy is the root of Islamofacism? Seems like we've been down this road before so you might know what the next question is if you say yes.
>>>Your freedom has a price.<<<
Can't wait to hear this one. How do you figure that invading a muslim country and killing 2% of its civilian muslim population has enhanced your freedom and made you safer from attacks by radical muslims?
>>>What slaughter 0f inocents are you talking about?<<<
Dumbest thing on display here in a while. We'll write that one off to spiked eggnog or something as long as you explain yourself.
>>>I do believe that the offending post was out of bounds.<<<
I agree. I read it before it was removed. That said, post # 306032 of yours reads like a Michael Savage transcript. No matter who wrote it, it bears your signature and you accuse those who disagree with you of sympathizing with terrorism and mass murder of american citizens. Then you take another breath and call yourself the "reasonable" one and volunteer to go away as if the rest of us are unreasonable. Whatever you decide.....how about a reasonable response to post # 306127....?
>>>and his intention not to govern by the rules of fundalmentalist Christianity<<<
Reminds me of Bush's intentions when he sought office and look what we got. Seems these christian fundamentalists don't always connect with their own intentions.......for some reason.
>>>I can conclude that we have not suffered another attack on our soil.<<<
Thanks to Iraq?
>>>I realize that you will refuse to credit Bush with anything positive, but I don't know anyone that the day after 9/11 thought that that was even a remote possibility.<<<
I give credit where it's due but nothing he's done so far has impressed except his ability to look like a dork every time he speaks in public. What do you give him credit for?
As for not being attacked since 9/11, why do you consider that such a miracle? 8 years passed between the 1993 WTC bombing and 9/11.
>>>Today, we are complacent, since we have not been successfully attacked<<<
Who are "we"? Bush's 24% who seem to think all the world's terrorists are in Iraq and as long as US troops fight them there we won't have any problems with them here?
So your conclusion is that since violence in Iraq is down, the threat of terrorism attacks against the US is down in direct proportion?
YOU identified the enemy as a criminal organization. How does this country deal with other criminal organizations?
>>>We are not facing a conventional army, but a criminal organization.<<<
So why are we using a conventional army to fight em' then?
>>>we all know you are anti bush<<<
Along with 66% of the country and 80% of the world so what do you know that a huge majority of the world doesn't?
>>>hate israel for its existance<<<
Not quiet. Israel's sense of entitlement to obscene amounts of US sponsored welfare irks me and I'm not sold on your idea that they are a peace loving nation incapable of wrongdoing.
>>>beleive in global warming<<<
So does George Bush and John McCain.
>>>very anti american in general<<<
Not at all. Just anti religious right style america.
>>>beleive that neocolonialism is the worst thing in the world<<<
If that refers to George Bush's foreign policy roadmap you're actually fairly close on that one.
>>>and think that terrorists are just underpriveliged folks acting out<<<
Too stupid to waste further key strokes on.
>>>if you can ask a question based on some kind of factual observation, i would like to hear it<<<
This IS a question and I've asked it three times now.
This looks like the record of a country acting and negotiating in good faith?
The most extensive violator of Security Council resolutions is Israel. Israel's refusal to respond positively to the formal acceptance this past March by the Arab League of the land-for-peace formula put forward in Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338 arguably puts Israel in violation of these resolutions, long seen as the basis for Middle East peace. More clearly, Israel has defied Resolutions 267, 271 and 298, which demand that it rescind its annexation of greater East Jerusalem, as well as dozens of other resolutions insisting that Israel cease its violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention, such as deportations, demolition of homes, collective punishment and seizure of private property.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20021028/zunes
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=2417
>>>benz you are morphing the subject. and you are not answering.<<<
well...at least we know you'd never do any of that lol...
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=25441475
>>>Israel doesn't negotiate in good faith.....in order to beleive this you must be a little hot and fried too.<<<
This looks like the record of a country acting and negotiating in good faith?
The most extensive violator of Security Council resolutions is Israel. Israel's refusal to respond positively to the formal acceptance this past March by the Arab League of the land-for-peace formula put forward in Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338 arguably puts Israel in violation of these resolutions, long seen as the basis for Middle East peace. More clearly, Israel has defied Resolutions 267, 271 and 298, which demand that it rescind its annexation of greater East Jerusalem, as well as dozens of other resolutions insisting that Israel cease its violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention, such as deportations, demolition of homes, collective punishment and seizure of private property.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20021028/zunes
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=2417
feels like the dark ages right now as far as I'm concerned.
Back with the same argument again I see. How about finishing up what you worked on last week before starting over?
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=25294329
>>>Maybe we have a CHANCE<<<
Wouldn't bet a penny on it. Watched part of the action on C-Span and nothing has changed. Bush republicans are still Bush republicans and democrats are still.....for the most part Bush republicans too. For all these traitors.....the ends still justify the means, at the expense of civil liberties, the constitution.....whatever.
Amazing watching these dolts posturing.....as if 9/11 happened yesterday, as if Bush is a national hero admired for his leadership and as if any of them had approval ratings above freezing. "If the president says the telecom industry needs immunity, we must approve it in the interest of our safety.....bla, bla, bla". One by one....all on the same page. No surprise there and no surprise that 6 out of 49 democrats took issue with it which is why another cave-in is in the works imo. I'd like to be wrong here but long odds for that....
You're not explaining the basis of your mockery earlier.....probably because you don't understand it yourself which wouldn't be anything new.
If Bush says the new FISA bill is necessary to protect americans, is he not by his own definitions sacrificing the safety of americans and possibly lives of americans in favor of unjust protection of the telecom industry if he vetoes and delays passage of the bill over retroactive telecom immunity?
Going strictly by what he's saying, explain why I'm wrong instead of making lame jokes about it.
Note that Bush says he'll veto any FISA bill that lacks telecom immunity http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/15/fisa.congress/
and that he also says the FISA bill is necessary to protect american lives. So by his own reasoning, american lives will be sacrificed so he can protect the telecom industry.
What's with your outrage over vulgarity around here? Seems inconsistent with the fact that you voted twice for a president who promised to change things in Washington, then took another breath and used expletives in front of a family audience, flipped his finger to the world and cussed in front of world leaders:
Just before a campaign speech in Illinois, Mr Bush said to his running mate Dick Cheney: "There's Adam Clymer, major league asshole from the New York Times."
Mr Bush later said he did not realise that live microphones were going to pick up the remark, but he stopped short of an actual apology.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/910614.stm
President Bush was allegedly caught on video giving the finger to the press during a visit to Capitol Hill.
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/bushvideos/v/bushfinger.htm
This video of Bush flipping the finger was taped at an Austin production facility during the later months of Bush's term as Texas governor.
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/bushvideos/youtube/bushfingerflip.htm
A microphone picked up President Bush swearing with a mouth full of food while talking to British Prime Minister Tony Blair at the G8 Summit. "What they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this s**t, and it's over," Bush said.
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/bushvideos/v/bushswearing.htm
Looks like a poor candidate for someone like you who puts a premium on class, tact and dignity. Unless you admit you made a bad choice I have to say you're a flaming hypocrite.
>>>You are pointing to individual atheists who are a product of a religious culture.<<<
Think about what you're implying. YOU pointed to major accomplishments in society such as music, architecture and mathematics and linked them to religion and I showed you that some of the greatest minds ever in those fields were essentially non-believers.
Do you really think Einstein and Mozart excelled in their respective fields only because they existed in what you define as religious cultures? Historians prove you wrong by pointing out that Einstein not only was aware of the stigma of his lack of faith but even used the church and the press to keep the masses at bay so he could work and make history in peace. I don't understand how you conclude that these legendary minds who changed the world were somehow dependent on average people of stronger faith than their's.
>>>From Jews, Christians, Moslems, have come great works of art, architecture, music, mathematics, the sciences<<<
Because most of the world's population profess to one religion or another whether they have real faith or not. How do you know that the Sydney Opera House wasn't designed by an atheist and what do you know about the faith of Mozart, Beethoven, Brahm and Einstein?
Einstein was an agnostic, but for a public face he--for practical reasons--wished to keep his lack of faith from the public. The press and the church wanted people to believe that he was a man of faith, and they succeeded.
http://skeptically.org/thinkersonreligion/id8.html
Ludwig van Beethoven.......... was reared a Catholic but quit the church and adopted Goethe's Pantheism. Pantheism, as you know, is the doctrine that equates god with the forces and laws of the universe. Although Ludwig van Beethoven composed a Catholic mass (Missa Solemnis) which an authority described as "perhaps the grandest piece of musical expression which art possesses," he remained a Pantheist to the end. It is piquant that the musical expert who thus appreciates his mass, Sir. G. Macfarrcn, describes him as "a freethinker" — that is to say, an Atheist — (in the Imper. Dict. of Univ. Biog.)
Johannes Brahms......was even less religious than Beethoven. He reveals in his letters to Hersogenberg (Letters of J. Brahms: the Hersogenberg Correspondence, English translation 1909) that he was a complete agnostic.
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart........the two leading biographers of Mozart put it beyond question that he was a non-Christian. Wilder gives ample evidence and tells us that on his death bed he refused to ask for a priest and when his wife nevertheless sent for one, the priest was refused, and he was buried without a service in the common grave of the poor. His famous Requiem Mass was composed for Count Walsegg, who paid Mozart but then put his own name on the composition. Ulibichov, the second leading biographer, gives even further evidence that Wolfgang Mozart abandoned the Church.
http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/roots/musicians/
Frankly......the only accomplishment I can think of where religion plays an important role is the process of running for public office in america. As much as it helps people get elected, where's the evidence of greatness created by these christians once in office?
>>>almost all of the good things in life have proceeded from religious peoples.<<<
What's the implication? That good things in life only happen if religious people are involved?
>>>"I still have hopes the people in Iraq will appreciate us being there," said Daniel Laird, 30, a firefighter from Yuba City, Calif., who leans Republican<<<
Guess nobody told republican leaning Daniel that Iraqis have an odd way of expressing their appreciation for us being there.
"The survey for the BBC, ABC News and NHK of more than 2,000 people across Iraq also suggests that nearly 60% see attacks on US-led forces as justified."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6983841.stm
Broaden your vision extel. The man is an accomplished dwarf on so many levels that specifying which kind of dwarf he is becomes redundant.
>>>Actually there is no person who qualifies as a "dwarf" in the White House<<<
Figure of speech. Got a problem with intellectual dwarf or a dwarf of a leader? You obviously won't or can't accept it but there are reasons beyond partisanship and internet anonymity for a president to drop to 24% in the polls.
US congress on secret prisons and waterboarding....too soft.
To each his own but I'll keep this in mind next time I'm casting ballots.
"In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.
Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.
CIA Director Michael V. Hayden said in an interview two months ago that he had informed congressional overseers of "all aspects of the detention and interrogation program."
"The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough," said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange.
Yet long before "waterboarding" entered the public discourse, the CIA gave key legislative overseers about 30 private briefings, some of which included descriptions of that technique and other harsh interrogation methods, according to interviews with multiple U.S. officials with firsthand knowledge.
With one known exception, no formal objections were raised by the lawmakers briefed about the harsh methods during the two years in which waterboarding was employed, from 2002 to 2003, said Democrats and Republicans with direct knowledge of the matter. The lawmakers who held oversight roles during the period included Pelosi and Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.) and Sens. Bob Graham (D-Fla.) and John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.), as well as Rep. Porter J. Goss (R-Fla.) and Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan).
Waterboarding as an interrogation technique has its roots in some of history's worst totalitarian nations, from Nazi Germany and the Spanish Inquisition to North Korea and Iraq. In the United States, the technique was first used five decades ago as a training tool to give U.S. troops a realistic sense of what they could expect if captured by the Soviet Union or the armies of Southeast Asia. The U.S. military has officially regarded the tactic as torture since the Spanish-American War.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/08/AR2007120801664.html
What a platform from which to spread liberty, humanity and democracy around the globe. Bought an item on Ebay from a guy in Germany and even he couldn't help himself from throwing in a snide remark about america........after he got paid.
>>>Excerpts from Romney's speech on religion, it's pretty darn good, he might not be my first choice, but he's a good choice.<<<
You don't get the feeling that you're all of a sudden at a car dealership anytime he speaks?