is...retired
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That is total BS, and everyone should recognize it. You don't make such price forecasts on penny stocks. And 5 billion times $23 is a market cap of over 100 Billion...that's 100 followed by NINE zeros. That would make it bigger than Wells Fargo, in ONE YEAR.
If they forecasted ONE dollar, it would STILL be way too high, because this isn't going to be a $5 billion dollar company in the foreseeable future either. There isn't even any PROFIT yet.
Sorry, dude, but everyone has their own reasons for buying and selling. I bought and held for FOUR years, and am going to get back something for that long wait.
I've never seen an RS in a penny stock that was good for shareholders. Invariably, the split happens, brokerage traders are blocked from buying or selling for 3 days, while the split is carried out, but other independent shareholders (like lenders) immediately dump at the high, driving the price down. Most never recover the high of the split for a long time, if ever. RS sounds good, but they simply don't work the way shareholders expect. Been through many of them, holding only a small position through the spit to watch what happens.
The best way to deal with an RS is to SELL before the split, wait until at least 30 days after the split, and then buy back in, if conditions warrant. You will actually end up with more shares that way. Again, if the conditions warrant, post split.
A reverse split is out of the question.
Although they could change the articles of incorporation AGAIN, there is a recent change that blocks an RS for 5 years. But, the way to reduce the shares is to buy them back with profit. There SHOULD be some profit coming to NSAV with all these 'deals' that are on the horizon, and if that happens, the buy back should be highly desirable for NSAV, not just for shareholders, but to move up tiers as well hopefully to QX.
The previously mentioned buyback was to reduce OS by 80% if memory serves. That would drop it to around 1 B shares. If you take 4 B shares out of the float, the remaining shares will float up, just as in an RS.
One reason I have so many shares is that the buyback was announced in 2017, and I wanted to be part of that. His plan was to put the bought-back shares into some sort of an organization that would generate profit off the rising price of the remaining shares. We were supposed to get some of that profit, as NSAV shareholders.
It is instructive to go back and read all the 2017 filings and news releases. That will get everyone on board with how we got where we are today. What is happening today is much like 2017...it all sounded rosy, but none of it ever happened.
Had nothing to do with me. My sells are all over 3, 5 and 6. And they are at limits, so they cannot cause stock price to drop.
I had 165M shares myself. But even though I do sell regularly, while the share price is increasing, I would never dump shares at market, which would only tank the stock. Others may be stupid enough to do that, but if they had that many shares, they would also be smart enough to know that they have to trickle them out to be able to maintain the share price, and even let it rise.
I still have 97M+11M++49M, for a total of 157M. But I've not affected share price ever - I only sell when the price is increasing, providing the shares that people want to buy. I will continue to do that, but only when the price is increasing. And, I would never sell a share at market. Everything is at a limit, which prevents share price decreasing. If the share price drops, my sells stop until the price recovers.
But you are right about one thing - it is not MM's shorting. It is all about buyers and sellers, and there are nearly 6 BILLION shares available to sell at a profit right now. SOME people will simply sell a bunch at market and move on. THAT is what affects share price.
First of all, MM's can't buy and sell shares for themselves. That would make them traders, which is illegal.
Second, they have no concern about which direction the share price goes - they make their commission on every trade, but nothing more.
Mm's display their spread. That means if you offer shares within their buy, they will buy them. If you buy shares within their spread, they will sell them. They can change their spread, but they cannot buy or sell outside of their spread.
Anyone that buys or sells at 'market' gives MM's free reign to open their spread, to immediately consume the trade. That's why, when you buy or sall at market, each tranch will usually be at a different price. It is the spread changing that causes that.
BUT, mm's can't just 'buy' shares and wat for their value to increase, then sell them. NONE of the tactics attributed by traders here are actually MM activity. It is TRADER activity, with MM's implementing the buys and sells.
They CANNOT TYRADE. They are brokers - much like cashiers in stores. That is ALL THEY CAN LEGALLY DO. And, every trade is recorded forever, and fully auditable. If an MM was caught trading like a trader, rather than acting as an MM, it would immediately be obvious, and the SEC could take immediate action. That is an illegal practice, and it DOES NOT HAPPEN. The market is fully automated, and follows the law. The amount of money that could be made on penny stocks is virtually nothing, compared to the daily income of any MM - they compete against each other to complete buys/sells, they do NOT compete against US.
My average is .0007, but a lot of those were .0001. All bought with profit from other stock sales. There was a time last year when the whole lot of them was worth about $3000. Now, over $2M. That's 4 years worth of holding. Made no sense to sell at the bottom, which was about .00005.
AT $0.10, I would have $11M. That would be enuff. The problem is selling without tanking the price. You will understand that when you have 110M to unload and don't want to hurt the share price while clearing out your shares. I'm not the only one. Some have triple what I have.
No, NSAV doesn't 'own' CHIF or TNMD. Chif is a public company of which JT is the president, previously CEO. He's CEO of TNMD, unless it has changed recently. Tilton WAS CEO of all three, but that doesn't mean NSAV owns them, any more than it would mean they own NSAV.
Who ever said it was an NSAV conference? It is emerging companies, of which NSAV has been emerging for about 4 years now...
the buyback was mentioned in 2017. It never happened, and won't until NSAV is profitable.
What a bunch of bs. A buyback would FIRST have to have an 8K. No 8K, no buyback. Besides, there is no profit to buy shares with.
Yes, of course that is untrue. Any share that is for sale can be borrowed and replaced by an mm, and you would never be the wiser. If you want to lock your shares, don't put them up for sale.
NSAV will have to turn a profit, and be able to cover expenses and a buyback. It takes cash, and it can't be borrowed money.
What I'm saying is that there are several billions of shares in trips. I have 150M myself. People who are selling are probably making thousands of percent profit. It doesn't matter WHAT they do - everyone has a reason they trade the way they do. It has nothing to do with shitty traders, it is the reason we all buy shares to start with - to make money for ourselves. Anyone that buys or sells at market - those are shitty traders.
Smart traders only trade with limits. You control what price you buy at, and what price you sell at. Nothing can change that, but if people sell at market, the market will tank immediately, because the mm's will lower their bid and get your shares for whatever. It's the worst thing you can do to/for a stock.
All of us in ihub probably own less than 10% of the float. If we all did the same thing at the same time, it probably wouldn't affect share price much. But that won't happen. The other 90% of the common shares are held by people not here on ihub. You don't know what they are doing or why. If they rode the spike up, they may be selling to put the money into another one on a spike. As I said, you cannot know the reasons behind people's trading.
So many people misunderstand MM's. It's unbelievable that people would risk hundreds of thousands of dollars using a trading mechanism they do not understand. And then blame the trading mechanism for problems while not understanding where buy/sell pressure comes from. Hint: it is traders, whales.
Most shareholders shares are held at brokerages. You signal to your broker your desire to buy or sell. The brokerage is required to hand the order off to the 'mm pool'. Any mm whose spread allows can perform the trade. MM's compete against each other, not US.
First and foremost, they are not investors or traders. They are merchants. They provide a service without which you couldn't trade. They facilitate trades. In their transactions, they are are never the 'owner' of a stock that they can sit on and sell at a higher price later. That is trading, and trading is illegal for mm's.
They provide a spread, which is their buy/sell range. The spread says that, if you wish to buy, and it is within their sell spread, they will try to find the shares for you. If they already have shares, they will sell them to you. If they don't, they may BORROW (not short) shares that are available for sale but outside their spread. (If it was within the spread, they wouldn't need to borrow them.) So, they borrow the shares to fill your order. Then they find shares to replace the borrowed ones. if anyone sells at market, they are on it instantly - those always fill immediately. The purchased shares are then given back to close the 'borrow'. If an MM doesn't close out all borrows on the same trading day, they MUST report to the SEC the 'failures to cover' twice monthly. That's the famous 'short report'. Not OUR shorts, but MM's shorts.
I'm purposely using the term borrow here, because that is their mode of operation. Borrow shares to fill buys then replace them.
Shorting, in the form investors, means YOU are shorting a company in the hopes that the price will drop, and you will get your purchase at the lower price. If the price doesn't drop, you have to buy them at the current price, even if it is higher than the original price. You lose money because you are buying shares at higher than they originally were. The brokerage (not the mm) holds your margin money to cover any such shortfall.
Lastly, the mm can only 'buy' shares that are within their 'buy' spread. They say how much they will pay for shares, and if you sell, they take the shares, even if they don't have an immediate buyer for them. Their spread is their guarantee - if you buy or sell within their spread, then they are obligated to take the trade, BUT they will take a 'transaction fee' from the sellers AND buyers. MM's work at 5 digits, while we work at 4. Those fractional pennies are their bread and butter. They NEVER make money on the share price changes because they don't OWN those shares. They are custodians of those shares, their NAME is not on those shares, and they can ONLY take their spread out of each trade.
Note that they don't care which direction the share price goes - they get their spread on every transaction, be it buy or sell. They do not make money on the sale of stocks like we do...it is illegal.
So, it isn't the mm's that manipulate the share price, it is traders. Many of us have standing buy and sell orders, good for 60 days, and if the share price gets to our limit, a trade takes place. It is TRADERS that control, the price, MM's have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it. It is simply habit to blame them, but what you should be wondering is what the whales are doing. They actually control the share price by having open orders for both buy and sell, often on the same stock. I've done that for years - it gets low enough, I'll buy more. If it gets high enough, I'll sell some. This is AUTOMATIC.
Oh, and naked shoring is illegal. You can't borrow shares that are not for sale. That is, you can't sell shares you don't have, and can't borrow from a seller.
On the subject of 'locking your shares'...you are doing the opposite. You are putting your shares up for sale at a high price, expecting that no one will pay that price. You are right, but if they are for sale, MM's can and will borrow them if needed to fill orders. And of course, there is an audit trail for EVERY TRANSACTION, so detecting 'illegal practices' would be a trivial thing, and there are already automatic 'trade checking' software to detect and prevent illegal practices. MM's are million dollar companies, and they would never permit their employees to harm the company by doing illegal activities that could get them fined out of business. Especially with penny stocks.
So, MM's can't borrow ANY stock UNLESS they have a buyer for them. Again, the TRADER controls that price, because a BUYER says he wants shares within the MM's spread, and the MM is OBLIGATED to fill that order, even if it means borrowing shares. And mm's can change their spread if they find a different mm is getting trades that they are missing. Each mm has its own spread. They can and are adjusted all day, as the orders flow in.
"NSAV Holdings
@NSAVTech
·
17h
As many of you are already aware, I am also the president of two other great companies and SBC Financial Group clients, TNMD and CHIF. Both are very successful and both had great news today."
Where do you guys get this fake news?
Tilton is CEO of CHIF, and has been for years. He even SAID it in a tweet yesterday.
There was no merger. TGPE is a private company that bought restricted stock which gives NSAV money to do the ventures it is doing. In a merger, one of the companies disappears.
Thus, TGPE is a part OWNER of NSAV, just as we are, but their shares are 'preferred', which means they get paid before we do.
Naked shorting is already illegal. If you think it's happening, notify the SEC.
"The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) banned the practice of naked short selling in the United States in 2008 after the financial crisis. The ban applies to naked shorting only and not to other short-selling activities."
bull shit. Every transaction is recorded electronically. It would be TRIVIAL to track these transactions. The SEC would close down ALL of the market makers if that is what is going on.
They are BROKERS, not TRADERS. It is illegal for a mm to also be a trader.
No retail is shorting NSAV. You CAN'T. TRY IT. This is all a myth. Sorry to disappoint you with your myth, but shorting penny stocks is about as likely as seeing a purple unicorn.
Yeah, I know that everyone KNOWS you can short penny stocks. Prove it.
But if you COULD, you would have to put up a TON of money to make pennies. And you might lose it. Penny stocks are volatile. They can go up or down on a whim. Why would anyone risk thousands of dollars betting a penny stock would go down, instead of buying the stock and betting it would go up. At least, if you buy it and it goes down, you still have it. If it goes up, you 'win'. If you could short it, and it goes up, you'd lose your MONEY.
Brokerages don't permit shorting penny stocks, period. Call your brokerage and ASK about it.
The fact is that we don't know why it went up in the first place. Yes, there is speculation, but we don't actually know. Nor do we know why it's dropping now. I'm not into prediction, since that means wag (wild ass guess), and I don't play that game. I do consider myself patient to see what happens. My trips are still worth over $2M, so I'm good either way.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. But we just don't know who is doing all the selling. This is all common stock, but there are billions of shares in trips that could still be coming out. Some people may have rode it up and now are dumping because it is headed down. I only sell on the way up.
Nope - haven't sold any since $.05.
But I do know someone who had 50M that might have sold them. Not sure about that.
I didn't say it is for a reverse split. I said it is from 2013, when it last had a 'd' on it. It has had no 'd' SINCE 2013, and it doesn't have one now. If it did, that's what you would see at your brokerage.
The D means a stock split. That's from 2013, when the last split happened.
Unfortunately, that 'source' also used the term 'shares'. It's a private company and has no shares. It was called an Equity Investment. That means they gave them money, in return for owning a percentage of the company, that's all.
So, NSAV is not a minority shareholder - they are not a shareholder at all.
I wouldn't be so sure of that.
Only JT says a person is a 'Board of Director'.
A board of directors is a group of people that are directors.
Each member is a 'director'.
To call a person a 'board of director', shows a misunderstanding of the meaning of the term to start with. That's good ol JT speak.
You realize the OTC is an automated market, right? MM's don't 'signal', they don't even LOOK at these stocks. Computers do all the trading, and it is among the amount of shares available, and the demand for them. MM's adjust their spread if they find orders are getting by them.
There are no 'mm' codes these days. What you see on L2 is partial trades. Someone buys 100K shares at a price and the MM fills most of it, then later fills the rest. I've had some of my buys take days to fill. but every partial is listed as a 'trade' on L2. That is the flow of trades, not the flow of complete orders.
Uh, try to short 1000000 shares of a penny stock, and you will have to PUT UP 2,500,000 of margin that can't be touched until your short is closed.
And that only happens if the stock dives, and you make maybe $150 on the short bet. Who puts up over a million dollars on a bet that a penny stock will drop and make a measly $150 if it happens.
No one. That's why all you people that claim shorting penny stocks, even if you had a broker that would permit it (none of them do), are blowing smoke. The numbers don't support shorting them. You would be FAR better off simply buying stock and hoping it goes up, than betting your bankroll that it would go down, and you'd put up millions of locked up dollars to make that $150. BULLSHIT. If you really think that, you haven't done the numbers. There is no way to mathematically short penny stocks and win, which is why brokerages don't permit it in the first place.
People, educate yourselves.
Of course they are wrong. Read the rules. Any stock that is up for sale is eligible for an mm to short (borrow). Period. they borrow them, and replace them. You never know.
You can learn this for yourself by simply reading the SEC rules for mm's. But SOME people would rather read posters that blame MM's for any change in stock price, instead of learning how it works, and pointing straight at shareholders, who hold the ultimate lever on stock price.
I can personally control NSAV's share price. SOMEONE would blame it on MM's or Jake. THINK about that.
Citadel is a market maker. That is how they work. YOU can't do it, but all the MM's can. Doesn't anyone understand the purpose and method of MM's? Someone needs to do some reading to find out what they really do.
If mm's were BUYING shares, and then SELLING them, they would be traders. They are not traders, it is illegal for MM's to also be traders. They would have such an advantage over the general public that we wouldn't have a chance. But you wouldn't have much of a chance of buying or selling shares without them. They are BROKERS, not TRADERS. They are more like cashiers at a casino then gamblers.
You can't 'lock up shares' by putting them up for sale. That makes them eligible for MM's to 'borrow'. The ONLY way to lock your shares is to not put them up for sale. They can't raid your privately held shares.
Why is it that so many don't understand this? Let's see, I'll put my nsav share up for sale at $100 a share so no one will buy them. You're right - no one will buy them, but MM's will use them to make trades because they are UP FOR SALE, making them legal to short. All they have to do is replace the shares, not BUY them at some ridiculous price. And that is exactly what MM's do. That is their business model.
Charts are history. Not future. No one even knows for sure why this went from trips to cents. That wasn't foretold by charts. Use charts on Amazon, not on trip zero penny stocks. It only took 2 months to go up 4000%, and no any chart, anywhere foretold that.
Nor can they foretell the quick downfalls, which also happen. Remember, NSAV was at a nickel only a month ago. What chart foretold the 50% drop back? None of them.
Please continue to believe in charts in penny stocks. That provides liquidity to those of us that need it. I'll be selling when your chart says to buy. I love it.
That's like people in Las Vegas that have systems - they LOVE them, because no system ever works.
Charts in penny stocks are bullshit. By definition, they are volatile. If no one EVER mentions charts again, ever, that will still be too soon. Only dreamers would look at a chart of a penny stock and assume that was representative of some big board stock.
FORGET CHARTS! They only show what HAS happened, not what is GOING TO happen. No one knows what a penny stock is going to do next. Betting on a chart is no better than throwing a dart.
A shareholder in a private company? Really? I thought JT said they bought the company. That doesn't make them a shareholder, it makes them the owner.
I don't think it will hit a dollar. 4 1/2 billion in OS would make it a 4+ billion dollar company. Not within reason, at current situation. After some of the advertised 'projects' start making money, after a stock buyback to reduce the OS, maybe a dollar. If it hits a dime, I will be taking all I need and leaving the rest to my beneficiaries.
I don't want to even think about it any more. My goal was to become financially independent, and I'm almost there.