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Bixmann,
Regrettably I am not employed by IHUB at the present time. I am also not a Self appointed CoB. I was recruited by persons closely associated with IHUB and asked to take over stewardship of the ADAPT thread. this thread is currently being revamped and will debut later this week. Additionally, I have helped to provide both Matt and Bob with advice and an ear towards the improvement of IHUB.
Also be advised that IHUB admin (Matt) has the final word concerning deletion and/or restoration of posts. He does read and review what is presented here and makes his own judgement in his own time.
The Article you posted would fit in other threads as I stated earlier. I encourage you to revist the link where you obtained it and repost on a more appropriate thread. Be sure to include the original authors credit (if available). I am certain it would stimulate quite a discussion on the VOICE thread in particular.
Concerning the "Big Picture", I believe my comments were directed at both sides of your argument with Gary. Perhaps if I put it more simply. It belongs on the Parking Lot...IMO. That goes for both of you! 8>)
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Bixmann,
After reviewing your post titled "LET'S SEE IF THIS GETS DELETED" #1836 on the CBQI thread. I would have to agree with the deletion. The post is off topic for the thread. This post would fit quite well on Gary's "A small voice in cyberspace" (VOICE) thread, but it does not belong on a stock specific thread. Further it appears that by the tone and number of your posts you are bordering on harrassment of the CBQI thread. Gary seems to be allowing you a great deal of latitude that he has not allowed several other posters. He has deleted several others for PA and TD while allowing your posts to remain. That is his privilege as a CoB. IMHO, the more you let someone get away with, the more that they push the boundries. Often to the point of absurdity.
In Conclusion, If you want to see the words you posted in message #1836 on the CBQI thread, post them in the proper thread. If you wish to engage in a verbal altercation with Gary...take it to The Parking Lot.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
That will certainly simplify matters. However I will still need for Bixman to give me a list of the post numbers he is challenging.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Provide the post Numbers and I can obtain then or get permission to reveiw them from the board chairman.
BTW, a great many people are confused by the Rights vs. Privileges issue. As a for instance we are guaranteed the RIGHT to the Pursuit of Happiness in the Constitution. However it would have to be a PRIVILEGE to actually be happy.
An example closer to home might be that we have a right to Free speech (we can't shout GUN in a high school lunch room) But we still must pay to put our message in the media (newpaper ad, tv ad, etc.) thus that is a privilege.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Bix,
If you wish to have your posts reviewed please send the posts in question along with any relevant information that will aid the review (see ibox above).
BTW, You are misusing the term Rights. In this instance (posting to a message board) you should use Privilege.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Why do people post to Stock related message boards?
The psychology of chat rooms.
Most folks come to a stock message board AFTER they have bought a stock. They come looking for approval and a confirmation of the "rightness" of their decision to buy. Thus, their first post is often "Isn't XYZ a great company?"
If the stock is moving up they usually find many supporters and a kind of mutual admiration society existing on the board. If it isn't they are often blasted by the folks that were making similar posts just a few weeks or months back. This group represents the most vocal bunch on a thread. The "investors" that are in a losing position.
Mostly they are split into two camps:
The Hopeful, who blame the negative "bashers" for the downfall of the stock price. "It would go up if you'd stop scaring off new investors!" is their mantra.
The Bitter, lashing out at everyone because they have a losing position. Many times their complaints are justified but because they have allowed emotion to cloud their presentation (as well as their judgement) all they usually end up doing is arguing with everyone.
The bulk of the posts on many boards consist of the exchanges between these two groups. Each has a vast arsenal of accusations to fling at each other or just at anyone in particular. This is especially true in the OTCBB arena where factual information of a company can be sketchy if available at all. These exchanges often disintegrate into shouting matches affectionately referred to on the Internet as "flame wars". Imagine the foulest mouthed kids going at each other on an elementary school playground. It is neither pretty nor fun to watch.
Both the hopeful and the bitter often vilify the remaining group, partially because of its decidedly small numbers, partially because they remind the "investors" of what they didn't do.. These are the folks that have taken the time to actually do some research and form an opinion based on the facts. Armed with their evidence they often try to convince the hopeful that the situation is hopeless or that the bitter have a reason to be hopeful. Alas, there is not much evidence of a high success rate. Often they are on the receiving end of abuse from both the hopeful and the bitter. Seems that sometimes people become uncomfortable with the knowledge that they have only themselves to blame.
The mutual admiration societies can be just as hard on these researchers if their research is predicting impending declines. Even after the predictions come true the researcher may have Cyberstalkers following him everywhere he goes warning: "This guy will destroy your stock! Everywhere he goes the stock gets killed! He must be an insider or MM or P&D! He is out to steal your money!" or something like that.
Then there is a very special group. They are not really interested in anything beyond the flaming. All they want is to keep the fires burning. Spewing nothing but hatred in their posts they will switch sides at a whim if it looks like one side is winning. Strangely these individuals often roam the net in packs, like wolves, till they find a suitable victim. Once found they will hound the victim wherever they go, giving no peace until the victim removes themselves from the public eye.
My point for all of this is a warning to all that would seek to gather stock information from a stock related message board. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet. Your best bet to avoid losing money and becoming one of the bitter is to become a researcher. Know why you should or should not buy a stock before you put your money down.
Good luck to all.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Gary,
What say we clean this up and get it ready for some action!
I mean all we need to do is get less than 10% of the active group at RB And this would be one of the most active boards going IMHO.
On Topic:
51+ million shares OS. Remember back in January when it was 36 million. 15 weeks and 15 million added to the OS. What an operation.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Yes, Gary. Unfortunately the cadre folded it's tent and ended it's siege before I could use that analogy. Just in case someone else may need it though I'll include it here.
The captain of the ship gives orders to sail to South Africa for he wishes to trade for South African goods. Some of the crew however think it will be better to trade with Brazil because they don't like the way South Africa does business. These crewmen plead with the first mate "The Captain is wrong! We MUST change course! Take over the ship and take us to Brazil instead."
IF the Captain has selected a loyal first mate the crewmen are thrown in the brig.
If the First mate is Disloyal you have a mutiny. If the Captain is successful in defending his ship the First mate would be hanged along with the mutinous crewmen.
Rules exist for a reason. Breaking the rules always has it's consequences.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Well, I for one have no intention of leaving. While must admit the Charged atmosphere around here made for an exciting couple of weeks, I can't exactly say it's been fun. However this gets spun on IHUB's competitors, I am glad to know that IHUB has set and is willing to uphold a standard. For those that resisted the anarchists, I applaude you. For the anarchists, I hope that one day you will understand the meaning of order.
Remember, the first amendment does not extend to the idiot that yells "Fire!" in a crowded theatre.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Very Well Said!
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
William Frakes?
or Majel Barrett-Roddenberry?
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Clever satire.
However, methinks thou doth protest too much.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
May I humble myself before the great and lovely Poet, whose revelations are sought throughout the land.
I have two option related questions that I am hoping you might help me with.
1. Is there anywhere a historical chart of the CBOE P/C ratio kept.
2. If anyone is using TC2000 for charting have you found any successful scans for yeilding potential CC plays.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
YEP.
Unfortunately there is no other way to punish stupidity.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Actually, If you work for CSCO and are spending a significant portion of your day posting on message boards I would be far more concerned with the likelyhood of CSCO disapproving of paying you to post on message boards than I would of what anyone might do with your IP address.
If you are using a cable modem without a personal firewall you deserve whatever comes your way.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Nothing personal ma'am, but you don't mail to IP addresses. It is merely a means of determining if one IP address is the location of one's troublemakers. If for example several ID's on a BBS had the same IP address they are most likely one person using multiple aliases. The only way you can be truly identified by your IP address is if it is static. As in a business address. You can relax, no one knows who you really are.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
I beg to differ ma'am. That is what the entire argument is about "the rules". However please accept my apology for the "personal" nature of that post. It was intended for the group mind.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Patricia,
Having been through more flame wars than I care to remember, I feel I bring a unique perspective wherever I choose to post.
I am not going to quote you here so bear with me.
Were the situation reversed and this discussion taking place on another board my position would be the same. Abide by the rules. IF you cannot abide by the rules, leave. IF you refuse to abide by the rules OR leave you will be removed. That is my position. Period. Regardless of what the rules are. If I don't like the rules on a particular board I don't post there...EVER. I certainly don't waltz in tell the moderator he has his cranial structure inserted firmly in his rectal orifice and if he doesn't change things to my liking I will make a mockery of his thread and then demand that the site administration force him to allow me to do so.
In a nutshell that is exactly what is being done here.
It really is simple folks. If you want to post...abide by the rules. IF you don't want to abide by the rules...don't post. The choice is yours.
IF you are right and IHUB is wrong, the project will fail and you can pat yourself on the back and say "I told you so."
If IHUB is successful the questions you've posed are moot, and you will still have to decide according to your values whether or not you want to post here.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
If Bob feels I am inappropriately administering this thread he can remove me as a director.
JFTSOA, I am administering this thread per the IHUB charter. IF you don't like the way IHUB is set up...As George Carlin once said "IF you don't like the weather...MOVE!"
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
How to handle having a post Deleted
1. Get over it and move on.
2. If you think the person that deleted your post was in error, see #1.
3. If you feel you have been deprived of an opportunity to win a Pulitzer Prize, see #1.
4. If you are certain that the only reason you were deleted is because the person deleting your post is a sub-human unfit for such a powerful position, see #1.
5. If you feel you have a right to post whatever you want wherever you want, regardless of it's relevance and therefore should not have been deleted, see #1.
6. If you feel it is your right to stalk and harrass anyone with whom you disagree by following and posting off topic in any thread they post in for the sole purpose of harrassing them and therefore you posts should not be deleted, see #1.
IHUB exists to put an end to the harrassment foisted off on so many boards as "debate". If that is your purpose you will find little solace here. Yes it does open the door to abuse, but there are systems in place that can more appropriately handle those abuses. It is not necessary to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Funny isn't it?
That the same cast of characters, posting the same arguments and personally attacking those that disagree with them continue to run amuck. Each one is making the same complaints and arguments over and over again. It is very clear that none of you support the IHUB concept, so I must ask this question...
Why are you here? No one is forcing you to post here, so why do you continue to support an organization you obviously disagree with in principal? Further, If you don't like a particular member or Chairperson why would you want to post on their board? Especially when they can (and do) delete your posts?
One of the strongest ways to voice one's opinion is to "vote with your feet". If you truly wish to undermine IHUB and destroy it's foundation. Leave. And take your posting volume with you. Without volume, no advertising can be sold. Without advertising to generate revenue the financial backers will pull the plug and IHUB would be no more. Unless you derive some sadistic pleasure from assaulting those who would rather not even know of your existence I can see only one other reason why you would continue this pattern of attacks...
You are afraid the IHUB concept will attract more users and will thrive, and under it's present conceptualization you would be unable to continue harassing those unfortunate enough to incur your wrath.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
If Bob feels I am not doing as he wishes on this board he may remove me at any time.
I will agree that Bob's posts are revealing, as are yours.
How can Bob place a gag order on you? Unless you are suspended or terminated for violating ToU there is no provision for an administrative gag order in the IHUB charter. Are you implying that you have a special relationship with Bob? and that he controls what you can or cannot post?
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
I have little fear of being wrong. I have been wrong many times in the past and most likely will again many times in the future.
However, regarding the posts in question which were perpetrated by yourself and the aformentioned associates as you pointed out so delicately in your prevoius post.
You and you compatriots made several posts to a thread that were, in the opinion of the CoB, myself and the site administrator, disruptive of the thread. That you have a history with the other posters and the CoB is a matter of public record. That one of your number is involved in a legal action (public record confirmed by your own post) with the CoB in question only underscores the obvious.
In another post you make a statement concerning that you are under a gag order concerning this legal action. If so your actions here may have actually weakened whatever presentation the case may have. It may even subject you to a contempt of court violation regarding the gag order.
Be reminded that this board is governed by the ToU and continued personal attacks upon the directors will be treated accordingly.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Due to the similarity of the posts style and syntax, coupled with the apparent connection between the two aliases. Throw in your comments above commenting on personal information from persons you claim to have no connection to and it is a simple matter to arrive at the obvious conclusion.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Normally I would not post the results of my review publicly But In this case I must make an exception.
It is Clear now that several persons, (Some using similar Handles) were involved in an effort to establish a precedent that might aid them in an impending lawsuit. In this particular instance I feel that the posts in question were posted for the sole purpose of inflicting harm on the CoB. That is the definition of harrassment. As such I will recommend that the posts remain deleted. Further harrassment by these individuals should be punsihed by suspension.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Bob,
The how much longer are you going to allow Lisa to promote a thread for a competitor on the admin board for IHUB?
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
"Care to PM me the links to the two profiles you suspect are the same person?"
I PM'ed you that very information about 15-20 minutes ago. I realize you have much on your plate and did not expect a response in that timeframe. One person making one complaint from two different aliases. Pretty clear cut.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Bob,
I was just reading this discussion concerning the use of "fired" by your former employer. While I am not 100% certain of the legal implications of SI refering to you as "fired", because in most uses it refers to "Fired for Cause" not merely "laid off" I would think you would have good cause to file suit (as many have) for defamation, slander and/or Libel. As it is now having an effect on your present situation, you should have no problem finding an attorney to take the case. Unless you have already done so.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
I see.
Bob created this thread and placed Gary and Myself as directors to handle the inevitable complaints from the deleted without cluttering up the Q & A board. I assure you Bob is still reviewing all deletions. However, I do not have the same level of access to deleted information that Bob has. I am here as an impartial reviewer of a situation and will pas my opinion on to Bob. This is primarily to ease his workload and save him a few headaches. I apologize if you find this system inconvenient but it is what we have to work with. Now if you will calm down and wait while I review what is going on and get all of the information, I will be making a recommendation to Bob as soon as I complete my review. You cooperation will be appreciated.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Thank you for providing the thread name. however I have a great deal of difficulty understanding how you can be so certain that your post was proper when you cannot present the CONTENT of the post you replied to. However I will see what I can find out.
BTW, Are you always this caustic with people helping you?
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
You are heading in the right direction. Please now include the message that you were replying to and the thread on which both were posted.
Lisa,
I am not trying to be difficult, but we must establish a procedure for submitting requests for review. I will appreciate your cooperation.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
While I will agree that Gary can take a little getting used to, what you seem to have missed here is that the seemingly incomprehesible passages are placed in the message for a purpose. One that you, Lisa and Chas have fallen for by taking the "discussion" to a personal level. Instead of presenting valid points that refute Gary's, you instead are now commenting on his "style". Which begs the question...run out of ideas?
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
I am not completely unconvinced that we aren't the fuel for an Infinite Improbability Drive!
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Welllllll...
First of all if we agreed on everything our relationship would be pretty boring. I certainly don't want to make my headache any worse though.
Volume was a poor choice of words, probably due the headache. What I was really referring to was the general tone of the board. If it always discussed the same security or group of securities, It might be a stock board disguised as a personal board. As I read your position though, that distinction shouldn't matter.
Bar, House, booth or whatever the lynchpin on which this rests is the interpretation of the Library Law, Which for the unaware states that you cannot sue the librarian for the contents of a book placed in that library. The Librarian also has the power to not accept a book into the library for whatever reason. Not the least of which is that it doesn't meet community standards. Essentially the IHUB concept is making full use of the Library Law. Under the scenario regulating the CoB's as I described earlier IHUB would be placed at risk of piercing the protective covenant of the Library Law and if I understand that Law and IHUB that is an unacceptable risk.
IHUB can make certain rules and regulations that apply to all threads. Much like a homeowners association can ban satellite dishes or restrict the placement of signs within the subdivision, IHUB can place restrictions on advertising or promoting illegal activities. But, neither can restrict the nature of the conversations within the confines of their jurisdictions. Just as you can stand in your back yard and hold forth a discussion on the current state of the union with your friends. Though your neighbor may be able to hear and though he may disagree, unless you are violating some statute on noise or alcohol consumption in public or the like, he can only draw his shades and turn up the TV. If he were to "crash" your party he would be subject to several violations, at least in most municipalities.
After sitting back and thinking about this for a while, I have this to add.
1. You never see the best of moderators moderating.
2. It looks like IHUB has most of the tools in place to be successful. Sure there are a few bells and whistles I'd like to see added. But the base system already exists.
3. Isn't the *CURRENT* IHUB model being copied (at least in part) by other sites?
4. New blood is fine and a healthy part of growth. Someone (I don't remember who) challenged my use of growth and suggested I substitute evolve. I submit that one can grow without evolving and that one can evolve without growing. In this particular case it is my final answer that new rules are unnecessary to the growth of IHUB. Whether IHUB needs to evolve is another matter entirely.
As I said at the beginning of my last post, I could be wrong and may even be out of line. 8>)
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Gee whiz! This is starting to give me a headache!
On "Personal Boards" and the CoB concept: I may be wrong and possibly out of line here but, As I understand it the purpose of the CoB's is to make administrating the site easier, not harder. It requires a certain amount of trust in the Chairperson. Chairs should be held to higher standards than members should. How that is accomplished is for IHUB to decide. The other primary argument I see taking place is "when is a personal board not a personal board". And quite frankly I think the difference between Gary and Bob on this is a matter of Volume. Gary (I believe) is referring to a single or occasional instance of a particular security or securities being mentioned on a board while Bob is referring to a pattern of recurring references. If that is correct, both are Right! If a stock gets mentioned, in either a positive or negative light during the course of regular on topic discussion on the "personal board" it should remain as should any responses to it (provided no other rules are violated). However if there is a pattern of ongoing use of a personal board as a 'bully pulpit' concerning a particular stock or group of stocks. Then the CoB is not operating a personal board in the spirit in which it was intended and should be removed from "personal" status. There are always exceptions to this rule but quite frankly even a board titled "Why OTCBB stocks (suck/are the greatest investing vehicle)" probably shouldn't get "personal" status.
Perhaps as a means of restricting "Personal Boards" guidelines could be established showing what criteria must be met before a member can become a CoB. Add further criteria before starting a personal board. Additionally, a probationary period would be in place for all CoB's during which they would have a lower level of powers and/or be subject to more stringent reviews. This should only apply to new CoB's though it might be a consideration for CoB's returning from a serious suspension.
Once again folks, this is a BBS. What transpires here is not likely to affect much of anything beyond it's direct effect on the lives of the people involved. And then only to the extent they allow it to. IHUB does need to have rules and regulations in place that will allow it to protect itself in the legal arena. But I for one hope it will be able to maintain its "common sense" approach to solving many of the problems that face a WWWBBS. No matter what is done though there will always be those that are too ethically or intellectually challenged to abide by the rules. That is why a SM has to have a legal means of removing the offending material. It does open a door for the SM to become an abuser. In the case of IHUB, we the CoB's and Users must trust that the powers that be will recognize such abuse (if it should occur) in time to end it.
As a Moderator of a BBS I had the following sayings stuck to my monitor. Not only did they help keep me sane but I feel they helped to keep me impartial as well.
Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
Do Unto others, as you would have them do Unto You.
Consistency, Consistency, Consistency.
In Closing I'll offer a very old tagline (now called siglines) of mine. It says quite a bit about how you should respond to a moderator IMHO.
Never anger a Dragon…for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Viper...
We can only respond to deletions on the IHUB System. The references you provided are from SI. If your complaint is concerning an IHUB deletion, please provide the pertinent information and it will be reviewed.
Thank you for your participation.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Truly I too am stunned. Perhaps on his arrival at his final destination he was told...
"We apologize for the inconvenience."
More on OPEN later.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Hey! I'm ME too!
Congratulations! I hope that this board becomes everything you hope it can be.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
This is *supposed* to be fun. Too many place too much importance on what goes on here. I like to think of these more like a neighborhood pub. Generally OK as long as no one gets too much Guiness in 'em!
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com
Which brings me to a question of my own for any legal types: If someone makes a reputation-harming untrue statement about you in writing, and prefaces it with "I hear" or "In my opinion" or "I think" or any other such qualifier, is it likely to make it less libelous?
While am not an attorney (nor do I play one on TV) I do try to keep up with the status of this particular issue.
The Key point is can you show Damages. Example: If as a result of the message being posted about Bob, he were to suffer some kind of injury (fired, stalked and beaten up, shot, stabbed, etc.) then regardless of the IMO, he could likely bring a case to court. Winning it would be another matter.
David Weed
aka the Bird of Prey
www.warp-drive.com