is... a buy and hold investor of dividend US and Canadian stocks
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i listened to the CC. does the off gas contain oxygen? same point... the Process Engineer should have known... my basic point about where they are at in their rollout is still the same.
I would have to go back and listen to the CC again and read the filing in it's entirety.
I won't have time for a few weeks, but my point is still true whether or not it is off-gas, oxygen, or just alot of farting (methane).
i would guess they are a US company.. likewise, this is tangential. let's get off this. I still have not read the filing...
yes... but my experience is similar.. a little bit... yes.. i have an understanding of accounting... yes...
it is important to realize that a company can report R&D expenses in different ways for tax reasons. I spent 15 years in software... has nothing to do with my point.
i am not going to go back and replay the CC. I am almost certain he said that oxygen "ate" the seal, or the membrane, or a part thereof of the sensors..
note how I am saying almost... i am not one to say something for certain unless i know for certain...
seal.. membrane... who cares. same issue.
ROFL! Who cares.? it has nothing to do with my original point which was where they are at in the rollout of the P2O product.
btw I work with Accountants and get data from them, but otherwise ignore them. In my job I care about the Project and where it is at and report to management, not GAAP.
i believe he said that oxygen was "eating" the rubber deals on the sensors... so yes i believe the presence of oxygen was the problem.
liquid vs gas is not a big deal. It is just a compression/ cooling process step. we used to sell our product as liquid or gas depending on the customer's requirement.
i know about Canadian/ US GAAP. my original point was just to be aware of it... as i was writing that I realized it was likely a US company... and I believe the tax treatment is more favorable. big deal...
"on such projects". exactly.
I like your insertion of [pyrolysis] in your post. My experience was in industrial gases, and I have some refining experience. There is a high degree of similarity. You will see that consistency in my posting.
interestingly, that is what I don't know. I think that is the difference. I know what I know and what I don't know. I have never trusted JB's numbers for his cost and profitability. So no I don't know how much a barrel of pyrolysis oil will go for... i think to trust JB's numbers is foolish. Only way would be to be an expert in Oil&Gas and refining.. which I am not.
i would think that one wants to know all sides of everything... in order to make up their own minds..
I believe that it is in a company's best interests to claim as much R&D costs as possible because under Canadian GAAP this can all be expensed. Statement below "Expensed when Incurred" would confirm that.
As opposed to capitalizing it and then depreciating it.
Based on where he is at, I think he could claim all of the next quarter or part of it on R&D as well...
not incorrect at all..
just as an aside, how they choose to account for their R&D expenses could be influenced by what is acceptable under GAAP. ie. whether they are capitalized or treated as an expense item. May not reflect the reality of what they are doing.
My opinion is based on observation of what I heard on the CC.
They are somewhere in the Commissioning/ Startup phase for this prototype plant with some Detailed Design thrown in the mix. Commercial Rollout is the next step. I have documented what I think the next steps would be in this post:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=53102810
IMO he could have utilized a better description of where he was at on the Conference Call. In bringing up the fact that he had solved two problems and in talking about how he had to get new oxygen sensors, he did not put himself in the best light. It sounded like he was merely explaining a 3-month delay. If he has had these problems, one would assume there are more out there. Would have been better to talk about phases as above.
Something else; in addition to not having his design down (in terms of the instrumentation that he needed) he revealed that whoever he has hired for his Process Engineer is not quite on top of things. I have worked with Process Engineers, and they would know what valves to be used in a system where Oxygen would be present. To have that problem and have to order new valves is quite amateurish. A good Process Engineer would have known.
So he in not in Commercialization yet, not IMO. Still building the prototoype system(s). My industrial experience allows me to see that and look beyond the F/S, ,,, much like the boilerplate legal disclaimers.
Lastly... what makes you guys think he is going to be profitable with only 1 or 2 processors running?
"grass does not grow on cement either". EOM
waiting for it...
and the PE Ratio... well I was kinda rushed... trying to get out the door, what can I say...
nitpicking.
even when i was with that company, i would mix up the Nitrogen/ Oxygen thing. and the Hydrogen/ Carbon thing..
but i KNOW that the systems were tested and purged (of all Foreign Matter) with nitrogen (an inert gas). Even though I thought it was hydrogen when i first posted. And i KNOW Oxygen is extremely combustive. And that it would explode the eff up if it came in contact with Foreign Matter when coursing through the pipes.... That is why the safety aspect, the purge... that is what I do know..
and just because I mixed up the mix with the Oxygen/ Nitrogen... so what. It makes no difference... how does that relate to JBII?
He is playing with Oxygen, that is what is important..
these little errors have dick all to so with my basic point about Oxygen and what JBII is doing..
nitpicker!!!
"Where are they now"?? - Stu miller...??
well as Archie Bunker said:
"Grass does not grow on a busy street."
and Edith responded?
thanks. ok. so i revise my statement..
Air = mostly nitrogen.. (80%), Oxygen (20%) and some Argon (1%) ,plus trace gases..
i have been away for over a year and could barely keep it straight while I was there, but I had the ingredients right... actually when i cook it does not work out very well either. I must work on that...
makes no difference, those were our products.. !!!
maybe "ambient", pure air without contaminants... CO2? the first step in the process after intake of ambient air was cleaning, removal of contaminants, pollution, dirt... crap of any kind... and moisture... very important.. i think because the H in H2O could cause combustion..
ok, i worked for these guys... if I am wrong please correct me...
splitting hairs... there was a several-month delay.
well.. i did not think there was any "tech" in TWB, as it is a retail stock... but I agree if there is a winning technology it will run any stock. Not so much winning technology, but winning application of that technology...
- Blackberries
- fax machines
- DOS operating system on IBM PCs.
The catalyst for JBII could be that winning technology, I am not placing bets at this time.
that must be the women's clothing outfit TWB? (not a competitor to JBII). One area where I do NOT have any expertise. Yes there was a rumour and the stock did run up, although I called it different. And it never ceases to come up.
How on earth can one make profits trying to guess when a buyout will occur? Unless you have access to insider info, it is not possible, and also highly illegal. Gotta call 'em as you see 'em without letting your emotions get in the way...
am I correct?
annihilated? i don't think so...
I would think that JBI will not be able to get a permit until the process does work. And he will likely get that permit in August.
I still do not believe the profitability numbers. And I believe that in the course of perfecting his process he may realize that a larger multi-million dollar plant is the reality. Another Envion, in other words...
because of that and his cash position, I don't think this is a good investment at this time.
I worked there for one year and while I was there I tended to get the two of them mixed up. I believe that nitrogen is the inert gas used to test systems. What they would do is to fully test everything with nitrogen before allowing oxygen into the system.
Air = Oxygen (70%) + Nitrogen (20%) + Argon (10%) + trace gases
we also used to make Hydrogen from waste feedstock from industrial processes. I believe that feedstock was carbon-based. Companies used to store it and did no know what to do with it. They used to simply flare it off, but carbon is basically greenhouse gases, so they happily gave it to us.
From the CC, I take it that JB has been testing with Oxygen in the system with a plethora of instrumentation. You see, although i am not a process expert, that does give rise to some concerns. I wonder if he should be perfecting the process flow with nitrogen somehow first.. maybe he is trying to do 2 things at once.. not sure.
I am the one creating it based on my year of experience working for that industrial gases company. No script. No innuendo. No BS. And sometimes things do blow the eff up. Check this out, this was propane..
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Massive_explosion_in_North_Toronto,_Ontario
the time line proves my point. He spent 3 months solving two problems... therefore my statement was totally correct.
thankyou.
by the way, speaking of process problems.. did you know that oxygen is explosive on contact with any spark or energy source? We used to purge our systems with nitrogen (inert gas) prior to bringing them up... this is serious stuff. I wonder if JBII has that kind of expertise.
no you (and you are not the only one) is the one who is full of bullshit.
I think I am one of the few people posting here who have actually worked on a process project requiring permits. Construction permits in this case. But I worked for an industrial gases company that worked with alot of dangerous, flammable, explosive, and environmentally dangerous gases.
Who brought this (Permitting) up as an issue? JB did. It was the second or third point on a bullet list at the AGM. Since then it has occupied this Board. His compensation is tied to it.
Have you ever seen me post about permitting as if it is a big issue? No. Never. Once in awhile I try to bring people to reality. I try.
This permit will likely come in August. I have not read the filing, but judging from what has been posted, JBI has left themselves an out in case it does not happen. they will say that the DEC and CRA were not "available".
In any case, there are more important issues.
In case you don't know, oxygen is used to fuel blast furnaces and will explode with any combustive spark or energy. We used to purge all of our systems with hydrogen and test every component before bring them online. I wonder if JBII has this expertise.
They may, and will likely, start meaningful production in August. But don't treat the permit as a big hurdle, it is a detail. It is a few phone calls, and maybe $500 -$1000 bucks.
And then there may be a new challenge: blending. We shall see.
well is it not suspicious to you? the objective is to make money, not complicate matters.. if he can't sell to a refinery... why would he be able to sell further up the chain? then you have to ask yourself, what is the cost... etc..
right on.
no they are not... but, moving on..
i will read the 10Q before speculating further.
i know...
that may mean that he is admitting he can't get WTI-3$. THere was never any proof of this. Market rate could mean spot rate, which could be considerably less. I posted to this effect in january.
or market rate could mean WTI-3. It was WTI -3 that built up the big expectation back in january february...
that is what is relevant here, that is what i am posting about.. he is constantly changing hsi story, whilst feeding out a positive story that projects huge profits at any point in time..
unless he gets WTI-3 he has misrepresented this to shareholders. Maybe it was just a statement on facebook, but i read it here as verbatim fact...
if he can't get that he has not met that expectation. that is all i am saying.
WTI - 3$ for sellign to refineries.
$10 more for selling blended fuels.
$22/tape..
do a search. not crap.
no, it was intended to communicate that the P/E ratio is but one of many factors to consider when buying a stock. In this case, when the company is not profitable, it does not figure prominently, hence one might make an error when trying to quickly figure out how much money they would have to make to justify current stock price..
he initially stated that he could get WTI-3$ for his fuel. He then built the blending site saying he could get $10 more/barrel... notice he is always telling a great story, a "sure thing", but inevitably it gets more complicated...
initially he had the tapes... a "sure thing"... now it is the blending site...
he should just sell fuel and process tapes and make money.
People who make things complicated and tell great "sure thing" stories have something to hide. Like most... managers. (I am a consultant).
it is hard to get the P/E right when a company has no earnings... lol...