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Losing
At the time I was NOT happy to be down 50%, but later when it turned into much more I was glad I got out.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
1996 latest report
https://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/DMRR/profile
I think I ran across other information elsewhere but would NOT recommend buying any shares.
Basically, the company only exists as a 'pass through' for CSX and has no other operations:
Nothing from company
I can't get ahold of anyone at the company.
No idea what their status is at the moment.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Outlasting WDDD financially
Yes, Activision is trying to do that, but part of that is the fault of WDDD. When patent plays were riding high back in 2012, the company could have arranged several million that would have ensured having enough cash to the end of the case, or do some kind of merger with VRNG and connect with their case and expertise.
Instead, the company looks like it wanted everything for itself and may end up with nothing.
Why in the world would a company like Activision settle with a company like WDDD that is limping along and out of cash all the time?
WDDD allowed that to happen, and now that patent plays are out of favor, there are problems with raising cash unless all kinds of shares are issued.
People will note that as time went on the estimated damages also dropped, especially with the loss on the issue of the corrected filing date for the patent.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
See the day?
When, when everyone here is dead and buried from old age?
This case has been wandering for years through the system. The only thing that seems to be going on is that more and more shares get issued to keep the company limping along.
There was an opportunity years ago to probably do a deal with VRNG, but it looks like the company thought it would be giving up part of a sure thing with its case. Now here we are years later, VRNG and all of the other patent plays are shadows of their former selves.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Crying about losses?
Actually, I was later glad I sold when I did otherwise the losses would have been a lot more.
Holding onto any stock when you are showing a large loss with the hope that somehow it will recover usually just leads to larger losses.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Case going 'our way'
So far the case has gone anything but 'our way'; all the way back to getting delayed due to scheduling conflicts with the Bulger trial, losing out on the patent filing date correction issue, and bouncing around in the various courts and agencies for years.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
What happened
At one point I did hold as many as 180,000 shares (around 2013 or so), but over time it looked like that things just simply would never work out for WDDD and sold. At the time I did take a loss, but if I had held I would have had a much larger loss.
People may recall that the trail was originally supposed to be held years ago, in 2012; since then the case has just bounced around in various courts and agencies, all the while more and more shares are issued.
I expect that in the end the company is never going to win the case like people hope, or if it does that the amount will be no where near what people expected.
There have been a number of patent case where the company, even when the company eventually won, got little to nothing. Examples of this are VHC, VRNG, BYCP, MGT, ZMSPF, MAXD. All are going no where. While back in 2012 there was a lot of positive press on patent cases, the general sentiment has changed and the companies are all limping along.
The one good thing that WDDD has going for it is the WORX that went into another business line and may eventually bail out WDDD so it does not turn into a total loss.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Something seems wrong with the reporting
Something seems 'not right' with the reporting.
The company reports that have over $3 million in cash, but they make a deal to turn control of the company over to another company for only a million in credit, plus with oil and gas prices near decade lows within the last few years, they only spend a few hundred thousand on new rights or land?
I question if the company really has the cash on hand that they claim in the reports, since why would the company make a deal for the credit line, while they only are spending about 10% of what they report on what appears to be a mostly nothing new oil/gas rights.
They needed more credit to buy something they could have paid for a small percentage of reported out of cash on hand?
Plus with oil/gas prices down, they appear to be doing mostly nothing. What, are they waiting for oil/gas prices to spike so they can pay top dollar for additional oil/gas rights?
Louis J. Desy Jr.
There a zombie
The company is losing about a million per year. They would have wiped out what was left of the equity is they didn't raise another 9 or 10 million or so (paid in capital rose that amount.)
Louis J. Desy Jr.
My facts are from the quarterly reports
I am taking my numbers from the quarterly reports.
How is Hudson Gray supposed to be so profitable when XA appears to have never made any money, and even had some time periods with negative revenue?
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Hudson Gray have done quite well?
I think there is a question on that. If you look at the 10K reports going all the way back to 2010, the company lost money almost every year. The company even had a quarter or two where revenue was negative.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
It is all a fairy tale told to sell decorative shares
The only use the lawsuit has is as the 'hook' to real in the muppets and get them to load up on the decorative common shares.
Same story over at Good Gaming (GMER), that CMGO is controlling owner through a super priority series of preferred. That fairy tale is that the company is going to make money with online gaming, but has negative gross margins.
The con is to sell a fairy tale to people that want to believe that they have 'found a gold mine' and get them to load up on the decorative common shares. The insiders will keep selling decorative shares for as long as the muppets will buy, and feed them some more of the story over time to get more muppets to pile in.
In the end, the company goes no bid when everything stops, leaving the common shareholders with no information and sometimes the stock goes no bid as even the muppets realize they were had, and are unable to unload onto anyone, even at $0.0001.
Louis J. Desy Jr
Why isn't it in the complaint plus RICO problems?
If that is correct, then why isn't the amount in any of the complaints or amended complaints?
As a follow up, most judges do not like seeing a business litigation turned into a RICO case:
RICO Lawsuits Are Tempting, but Tread Lightly
Loss of revenue? And that number is. . . .
Yes, if the defendants caused a loss of revenue for a few years, they could be liable for that; BUT no where in the documents so far do they seem to give a number as to what that amount is in total.
I took a look at the 10K reports, going back as far as to Jan 2010. From what I see, it looks like the company had operating losses as far back as the periods covered to Jan 01, 2010 without any profitable years, ever.
It seems that it would be kind of hard to argue that CMGO is owed $20 million for a company that always lost money.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
What is it worth? Where are the details?
The problem is what is it worth. So far it does not adds up to anything near $20 million. That is the problem.
The case has been going on for months and if there are $20 million in damages, it should be there.
If the details are not in discovery, where are the filings/motions from CMGO asking the court to compel the defendants to comply with discovery? The answer so far appears to be that it is the company that is not complying with discovery and the defendants filing motions to compel Laken and the company to comply with discovery.
If CMGO is going to recover anything like that amount of money of $20 million, they need to put into a filing more than the $233K or so of equipment plus detail how much revenue and profit was being made.
While I have not read every single document, I did read the transcript plus doc #19, plus the second amended complaint; and the simply fact is I can't even see $1 million damages, let alone $20 million. That is the problem.
There appears to be the implication that on some of the items that the employee paid for them themselves and then the company never reimbursed them; so the people took back their stuff. If that was what happened on some of the items, then the company did not suffer any damages since they couldn't, wouldn't and didn't pay for it.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Judge decides? Based on what?
When the judge does make a determination on damages, they will look to see what has been submitted and proven as damages.
So far, I only see a few hundred thousand in damages, at best maybe several hundred thousand in additional items that may come out in discovery.
The judge is not going award a $20 million judgement unless there is something to show damages justifying that amount.
So far the only place I see such an amount is PR from the company or other people repeating those company releases to the public.
No where do I see anything approaching that amount of damages in what has been entered into discovery.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Value of the lawsuit and value of CMGO
The problem is that if CMGO has any hope to recover $20 million, they need to demonstrate and show how that amount of damages are there.
While sometimes there is a delay because until the plaintiff has finished discovery they can't total their damages but here it looks like there is only maybe a few hundred thousand or so that I can see.
CMGO apparently tried (or did?) issue a series A preferred that would have a claim on the $20 million amount, but no where, so far, can I see what backs up an amount anywhere near that.
As far as GMER value to CMGO (CMGO has a controlling interest in GMER), GMER revenue does not even cover its cost of revenue; i.e. the more revenue it has, the more it loses. In effect, for every one dollar in revenue, it costs them more than that; and that is before the SG&A or depreciation.
GMER report for quarter ending Sept 30 2017
So in summary, the two assets CMGO has are:
1: A lawsuit that may have some value but probably no where near $20 million; maybe several hundred thousand at best, from what I can find so far.
2: A controlling interest in another company that has negative gross margins and looks like it will never be able to make any money, ever.
On top of that, the company appears to have no CPA firm working on bringing the SEC reports up to date, so it can't file any more quarterly reports.
If anything, it looks like to me CMGO may never file any more quarterly reports and eventually just stop trading after a while of not filing reports.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Is the lawsuit the only asset left?
Document #58, transcript, for CMG Holdings Group, as successor to XA The Experimental Agency, Inc. v. Wagner (1:15-cv-05814)
Scott Mathews for the defendants, starting at page 4, line 18
Conference call Feb 21, 2018
It looks like the defendants want the call so they can get all of the documents they asked for under discovery.
What does not make sense, is why the plaintiffs would not comply with discovery since to not do so could ruin their case.
While it is not clear on many parts of the requests as to how hard or easy it would be to produce the documents, the one item that sticks out is not making a set of the American Express statements available. That is very easy to do, they can just go online and download PDFs of the statements, attach them to an email, and be done with that request.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Most documents for case now on RECAP
I viewed a number of documents last night and see that RECAP now has them, plus an updated docket.
I will try to view the remainder of pacer this weekend so everything gets over to recap.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
RECAP LINK for CMGO case:
CMG Holdings Group, as successor to XA The Experimental Agency, Inc. v. Wagner (1:15-cv-05814)
Not current on its SEC reports?
Is the company not current on its SEC reports?
The last quarterly filing I can find is for period ending 12/31/2015. It looks like there is nothing after that.
CMGO annual report for period ending 12/31/2015
At this point it is not clear if the company even has a CPA firm since the 8K filing showing the CPA firm being 'dismissed' by the company:
CMGO dismisses DLL CPAs LLC 06/19/2017
Even stranger, that firm did no work for the company, even though the company was over a year late on its filings at the time:
How would posts from here matter or be useful?
I have not followed all of the case, but I am confused as to why or how it would be helpful for plaintiff to put into discovery posts from this board (according to request #65 in document #72), are there things posted on this board that would help the plaintiff, if true?
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Not looking so great for CMGO? Correct.
IF what is in document #72 is correct, and CMGO and others are not complying with discovery, and never comply, I would say that CMGO is going to lose the case.
Some of the requests are simply for copies of American Express statements from CMGO or other people, and for some reason they are not complying. That is very easy to do, one can even get those online as a PDF and then email them off.
I would say that it looks very bad for CMGO, but lets see what is filed as a response to document #72.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Recap Link to case
For those that do not have a pacer account, here is a recap link to the case. Note that this will lag the pacer system by days most of the time, but if someone gets a copy of the document, it will eventually appear here:
CMG Holdings Group, as successor to XA The Experimental Agency, Inc. v. Wagner et al
I just viewed document #72, so eventually it will show up in recap.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Possible problems with case - CMGO not complying with discovery?
It is not clear why, but for some reason it looks like CMGO is not complying with discovery requests. Specially, document #72, filed on 02/08/18, details a number of things that have not been complied with, at least according to defense.
It looks like there are a number of documents that have not been produced going back to May 2017 by the plaintiffs. It also looks bad in that some of the requests appear to be XA requesting the supporting documents for expenses being charged to them and never being given any, plus details of some audit plus questions as to how and when Laken got or had control plus documents related to other people, most of which they claim have not been produced.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
David Boies withdrew on 02/05/2018
Looking at the case, I see the case summary shows that David Boies of Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP withdrew on 02/05/2018.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Are they still in business?
Are they still in business?
Anyone getting any reports as a shareholder anymore?
Louis J. Desy Jr.
No one cares about previous management? Except the company itself!
Didn't the company put out a few press releases about how they were going to go after the previous management and had gotten a law firm on the case?
The company itself claimed it cared about the 'previous management'.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Want this to fail? Already has three times!
This company already has gone through three pump and dump routines, where the company has absolutely nothing afterwards. Of course, the insiders got all kinds of money when they converted preferred or debt into decorative common shares and unloaded them onto the muppets in the retail market.
First, there was the pre SirenGPS pump and dump, which ended when the stock went $0.0001 and no bid;
Then, there was the whole SirenGPS pump and dump, where the company had ZERO revenue; (and lets not even talk about the alleged shareholder derivative lawsuit the 'new' insiders were going to file to recover money from the converted shares which was never filed in an court anywhere and no longer mentioned in press releases)
Now, there is the reverse split 1:1000, afterwards which the stock fell below a pre splite adjusted price of $0.0001 and only recently just recovered to a little above on massive pumping. Of course, the stock is still way below the $0.0009 or so pre split price ($0.90 post split)
Now ViaOne, in control of the company, has 8.3 million shares. For anyone who bought pre reverse split, that would 8.3 BILLION shares when the max number of shares was 2 billion.
Way to go!
Oh, and I noticed the stock does not even trade $5K per day while many pre reverse split holders hope for any spike to try to recover something and only lose 50% on their initial investment.
What I find amazing is that even with all of the pumping the stock still can't go anywhere!
Louis J. Desy Jr.
ViaOne is going to keep decorative common shares? Why?
Why would they hold onto any common shares? Even someone owning 100% of the common shares has no control over the company because of the super preferred voting control.
As soon as ViaOne can dump the shares, they are going to dump them. The only thing that will stop them from dumping shares would be if the stock falls to $0.0001 and there is no bid because the muppets have run out of money to buy the decorative common shares. Of course, if that happens the company will just do another reverse split and run the whole playbook for the 3rd or 4th time where insiders make a few hundred percent for dumping convertible preferred and the muppets get heavily diluted decorative common shares that they can't even sell at $0.0001 because the market has gone 'no bid'.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
The shares are still out there
Restricted or not, the shares still exist and at some point they will get dumped onto the muppets in the market.
Any smart investor gets out BEFORE the shares get dumped onto the market and before any report gets filed, not after the report gets filed telling them the shares are being sold. At that point it is too late to avoid the drop. At that point everyone already knows since the tape shows the shares trading with the volume spiking and the price dropping.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
When they file it will be too late
Once they file, it will be too late since there will be waves of selling that will probably drive the stock price back to $0.0001 and no bid again.
Why would they hold on since they are now up 400% or more on the loan?
I think that anyone financing something like this would take the money and run, instead of waiting for someone else to dump before them.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
You mean 11.3 million shares?
With the recent conversion, from the 8K report, there is now another 8.3 million shares on the market, so the existing shareholders just got diluted by 73%.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Wave of buying with 3,627 shares traded?
This 'wave of buying was only 3,627 of the decorative common shares, or $544.05 worth of shares. It is not even a grand worth of stock trading.
What do you expect will happen once some of the 8.3 million shares get sold into the market if only a few thousand shares are trading each day?
The stock at $0.15 is a pre split price of $0.00015, which NASDAQ would round to $0.0001 or $0.0002 in the automated system since it only handles four decimal places for trades done in the automated trading system. That is still way below where the shares use to trade for.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Only 24,000 shares on the bid. . .
I think that 24,000 shares with a value of less than $3,000 is not what most people, would call strong support on the bid.
On top of that, only 2,627 shares have traded so far; so @ $0.15/share for $394.05; that is not even $1,000 worth of stock trading.
It looks more like someone is trying to paint the tape than really buy shares for investing in the company through the decorative common shares.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
And now the dumping begins. . .
GOOD GAMING, INC. 8K Report Jan 12 2018 - ViaOne converted $200,000 of a Note into 8,333,333 shares
So they now have something like $800K or so worth of shares to unload onto the muppets.
It will be interesting to see how many shares get converted in the coming weeks and months.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
What happened? Only 10 shares traded so far
What happened? Near new low and only 10 shares traded today, plus it looks like the market marker is the only one on the bid/ask with 10,000 share order on each.
Louis J. Desy Jr.
FORM 15!
What is going on?
They filed to terminate SEC reporting.
Termination of Registration of a Class of Security Under Section 12
Louis J. Desy Jr.
Anyone here?
I came across this from a seekingalpha article. Apparently, they are about to see off a west coast radio station, plus have some other assets they may sell, in addition to Next Radio.
Louis J. Desy Jr.