RE: NOK "Launches" PTT ... Avail Next Year (huh?)

It will be funny watching them weasel out of the schedule. How times has it happened before, it would take more then 2 hands to count.

RE: In comparison Verizon wireless uses about

I did not want to leave out Wi-Fi coverage for the polar bears and reindeer on the north slope of Alaska.

Re: Wi-Fi is it wireless ?

Here is my calculation on how many Wi_Fi stations it would take to cover the horizontal USA. (Note: additional stations would be required service the vertical mode of tall buildings.)

From www.cia.gov World Fact book the USA has 9,158,960 sq Km of land. If a Wi-Fi station can cover 5000 sq meters or 0.0050 sq Km, it would require 1,831,792,000 Wi-Fi stations to cover the USA.

In comparison Verizon wireless uses about 30,000 CDMA stations to cover almost 90% of the population in the USA.

Which is better ?

I sure wish I got a $1 commision for every Wi-Fi station installed.

City Telecom unit ready to build CDMA 3G network
Georgina Lee

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/thestandard/news_detail_frame.cfm?articleid=43223&intcatid=1

Hong Kong Broadband Network says it is ready fill a gap in Hong Kong's communications structure and build a CDMA-based third generation (3G) network.

The wholly-owned fixed-line arm of City Telecom says Hong Kong lacks an advanced high-data-speed code division multiple access network and it is ready to spend US$70 million (HK$546 million) to build one.

To enable this to happen, chairman Ricky Wong said the government should take back two little-used 800 megahertz mobile licences - one held by Hutchison Telecom for its CDMAOne mobile voice service, and one by CSL for its TDMA (time division multiple access) service - and auction them off.

Wong's call comes amid fierce wrangling among operators over the future of second-generation licences which expire in 2005-06.

The Office of the Telecommunications Authority (Ofta) has already proposed that the two 800 MHz licences be withdrawn to allow more efficient usage of spectrum resources. Several operators, including HKBN and PCCW, have called for these to be put up for bidding but Hutchison and CSL have opposed any such move.


Wong said his company had begun a feasibility study of a CMDA2000 1x network.

``I am confident that it would take us one year and about US$70 million to have the entire Hong Kong covered,'' he said. ``We urge the government not to put too many eggs in one basket,'' Wong said, referring to the wideband code division multiple access system expected to be used by the four third-generation (3G) mobile licensees. ``It needs to open up to various types of technology that would lead to more competition.''

Both WCMDA and CDMA2000 can offer high speed data and multimedia services such as video phones, video and music-on-demand, live TV broadcasts, video clip downloads and others.

Wong said HKBN, which has a 10-gigabyte fibre network reaching 4,000 buildings, was well-positioned to offer CDMA2000 because back-up from its fixed line network would allow it to lower costs.

``We emphasise that 3G is all about cheap mobile data and multimedia visual services,'' Wong said, adding that GSM operators would need to rebuild and redesign their existing GSM cell sites for the change to WCDMA, adding to their total costs.

``GSM is essentially a voice service,'' Wong said, and using such a network to transmit data was inefficient and expensive. ``This is why data usage in Hong Kong has never been popular,'' Wong said, referring to GPRS (general packet radio service), or the existing 2.5G service which is also based on GSM.

Because 3G based on CDMA had lower establishment costs and could therefore charge less to customers, Wong said his planned CDMA2000 service could support 1 million customers and he was confident it could boost the company's share of revenue earned from data transmission from less than 5 per cent to 20 per cent.

Hutchison plans to launch its 3G service this year while SmarTone, Sunday Communications and CSL, have said they would launch theirs between 2004 and 2005.


10 November 2003 / 01:45 AM

Wi-Fi is it wireless ?

Due to its limited range is Wi-Fi a real wireless technlogy ?
Verizon annouced it would take 200,000 Wi_Fi stations to cover Manhattan in NYC alone. If only all 4,000 Starbuckss coffee houses in the USA have Wi-FI, how much does that leave uncovered ? 99.9999% of USA ? With such as small footprint, who cares .

GSM in USA

GSMa has done a good propaganda job. I was under the impression most of the the TDMA subscribers had switched to GSM. The below news clip has a small minority only switching. I would imagine the switch from TDMA to GSM is going a lot worst then investors know. I would guess the GSM 850 Mhz solition is not working too well also. At least Cingular has the 'rollover' plan to help them, things dont look good the ATTw.

"Only customers on AT&T Wireless's newly installed GSM/GPRS network, roughly 14% of the company's total subscribers, are affected. AT&T Wireless typically reserves this network for subscribers who use their wireless phones for data functions such as e-mail and the Internet."

RE: The minor value added by GPRS is small

The GPRS flop has been well documented with data speeds of about 30 Kbps, which is barely above what GSM did. Consumers have voted for GPRS with less 1% (and closer to 1/2%) of GSM subscribers actually using it.

Re: the mistaken belief that AT&T wireless is offering 3G “next generation” services

There has been a lot of BS from AWE when it comes to services.

AWE's GPRS service falls way short of 3G, otherwise the ITU would have called it a 3G technology. The minor value added by GPRS is small compared to full 3G services. When we actually get Real 3G, people will be amazed at what can be accomplished with a handset.

RE: VZw's upcoming phone from Samsung -- GSM1x ?

I am hoping GSM-1x will be the next hot item in wireless. WCDMA is not doing it.

RE: # Portability--Will VZw Stop Its 4-Corner Offense?

Here is a clip from an old March-2001 press releases. PCS could be the winner with a nationwide 307 Kbps data service.

http://www.cdmatech.com/news/releases/2001/010320sprintpcs3g.jsp
[[The first phase of 3G deployment for CDMA2000, also known as 3G CDMA2000 1x, will result in the eventual doubling of the voice capacity of the Sprint PCS network; a tenfold increase in data speeds from 14.4 kbps to speeds of up to 144 kbps; and increased battery performance life in standby mode by approximately 50 percent. By early 2003, Sprint will move to the second of its four-stage migration path with speeds of up to 307 kbps. By late 2003, peak speeds will reach up to 2.4 mbps with 3G CDMA2000 1xEV-Data Only (DO) and in early 2004, speeds will reach 3 mbps to 5 mbps with 3G1xEV-Data and Voice (DV). ]]

Re: Korea makers unveil dual-mode 3G phones

"Samsung Electronics unveiled its as-yet unnamed dual-band phone compatible with both CDMA2000 1xEV-DO and rival standard WCDMA (Wideband CDMA), now also called 3GSM, according to Nikkei News Asia. "

That dual phone looks like a winner.

There is no GSM in 3G. In Japan DoCoMo uses PDC for 2G. In Europe "3" doesnt even have 2G systems. Where is the GSM in 3G ?

RE: VOD - "no 3G 'til it works" (gprs & Edge fill breach)

The rumor has been the Euros need a forklift upgrade to install EDGE. Basically they are between a rock and a hard place and another rock.

If they spend money on GSM, they are investing in an old legacy 2G system. If they spend money on GPRS/EDGE, it does address their voice capacity problems and the data increase is small. If they spend money on UMTS, it does help because of its problems.

I sure would NOT want to be the CEO of an EU wireless carrier. They will probably have another run of CEO changes over the next 2 years.

More FUD.

From http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB20031010S0011
"........rolls out in North American as Cingular Wireless, AT&T Wireless, and T-Mobile USA convert to new GSM technologies. "

I see 2 things wrong with that statement.
1) T-Mobile is NOT converting to GSM, it already is GSM.
2) GSM is not NEW, it is OLD, and it should read "....convert to OLD GSM technologies."

2G GSM stifiles 3G ?

Does GSM stifile 3G ? The evidence says YES.

It seems the futher a country is from GSM, the more advanced is its 3G progress. Japan and South Korea are the most advanced wireless countries with 3G-like systems. However neither has GSM, Japan's 2G is PDC and CDMAone and in the South Korea the 2G system is/was CDMAone. NTT and j-Phone have WCDMA and KDDI has CDMA2000, both considered to be almost 3G.

Then we have countries that utilize both GSM and CDMAone for 2G services. Again the further they are from GSM the closer they are to 3G. USA, Brazil and Australia are three of countries that have both GSM and CDMAone for 2G servcices. Monet and Verizon in the USA have 3G-like service with CDMA2000-1x-EV/DO, with partial coverage of the country. The same goes for Brazil and Australia. While they do have some GSM, they also have CDMAone for 2G and have made some progress towards 3G.

Then we have the pure GSM countries, over 200 of them. Less then a handful have made progress to commercial 3G services. Even Finland doesn't have WCDMA, only EDGE ( a poor excuse for 3G-like services). UK does have 3g-like WCDMA, but the operator does not have a GSM system. Italy also has WCDMA, but it does not meet the requirements of 3G, it is not fully backwards compatible with the 2G GSM in that country.

In conclusion, look first for 3G and 3G-like services in countries that do NOT have GSM.

RE: Mindy and Moonster, Re:latest Tele New Zealand article-

Jim,

Thanks.

If I sent an e-mail it would be a lot shorter, I would call them a putz and gullible.

RE: Telecom NZ CEO: No Compelling Reason To Adopt W-CDMA

I can not believe the reporters buy that FUD and repeat it.

RE: BofA Cites Handset Demand In Coverage Of Nokia, Motorola

Jim and Mindy, good comments.
The analysts need to buy a clue sometimes.

Fade Away........

MOT, ERICY and now NOK are fading away in the wireless sector.

Who will be the next champ, Samsung, LG, NEC or one of the China companies?

9/25/03 - Qualcomm: China 3G License to be Delayed till 2004

Too bad the writer did not mention the GSM-1x testing. If China goes with GSM-1x, it could delay WCDMA and TD-SCDMA for another couple of years.

RE: >> One of the hypes about GSM is, it is easy to upgrade. <<

sylow,

I don't have the exact link but you can try a site with a name like www.cellular-news.com or do a search on the NOK website, it is there.

"Nokia wins EDGE contract
Nokia and WestLink Communications have concluded a deal to replace WestLink's existing GSM network with Nokia GSM/GPRS/EDGE core and radio access network equipment, and expand its network to cover additional areas. Nokia will become the sole system supplier to WestLink, which operates the only GSM network in western Kansas."

One of the hypes about GSM is, it is easy to upgrade. So why are they replacing ? Is this an example of the BOOTSTRAP upgrade, people have been writing about?

RE: TI Bites Back Qualcomm (TMF)

Does anyone know if QCOM has realized any benefit from TI's DSP technology? I don't see DSP mentioned anywhere in the QCOM's press releases and product descriptions.

What is 3GSM WCDMA?

It seems to imply there is a GSM version of 3G and WCDMA is 3G, but both are false.

I far as I have been able to determine there is no GSM version of 3G. While GSM operators can 'migrate' to WCDMA or CDMA2000, there is no time division 3G.

As to WCDMA, until it meets the ITU criteria for 3G it is not 3G. The current versions of WCDMA can be referred to as '3G-Like' or '3G-Lite'.

I am reserving 'nuetered-3G' for the '3G version' in Indianapolis.

RE: The Street on Qualcomm litigation (w/ TI & others)

The writer needs to do a better job. At first I thought he was inexperienced, but after seeing his picture, he is an old guy that should be able to write better.

He wrote........" technology known as WCDMA, itself an advanced variant of CDMA,"
Advanced ? I have always considered WCDMA to be a EU vatriant of CDMA, but not advanced.

He wrote..." Qualcomm developed CDMA technology and holds the patents to it." This makes it sound like CDMA is a properiety product of QCOM and they hold all the patents. Did not Hedy Lamar, the actress, patent CDMA during WW II? In the the wireless world, it seems like everyone and his uncle has CDMA patents, so what is this guy writing about?

He wrote ....." In addition to TI, it has patent agreements on CDMA with handset maker Samsung and Taiwanese chipmaker Via Technologies" He does not differentiate the different relationships between QCOM and the other companies, he throws them in the same boat. TI is a rival and competitor and Samsung a customer. I don't know who Via Tech is, maybe they make chips for QCOM.

The article could have been worse. It could have been written by the UMTS Forum,( see their recent press release about 3G in China).

GSM boycott
http://www.cellular-news.com/story/9756.shtml
"Calls for the boycott were spread by a viral SMS, that read "Lets force GSM tariffs down. Join a mass protest: Switch off your GSM phone on Friday 19th 2003. They will lose millions. It worked in the US and Argentina. Spread this text" "

RE: "WCDMA technology is developed partly based.........

Does he really mean PARTLY developed.........

RE: Nokia urging China to issue 3G licenses as early as Q1 2004 - official


WAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhh

Re: China 3G licences seen delayed to 2004

That was a no brainer.

China will stall the annoucement to squeeze the price and royalties down.

RE: Censorship of NOK critcism?

Iron Air,

THe samething happened about a year ago. Yahoo would not let us post a negative article about NOK on the Yahoo NOK board.

RE: field trial results providing capacity

Sounds like more GSM bullsh*t. I am still waiting for the day GSM can actually deliver on one of its promises.

RE: said the source who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Same old BS from China.

China will be milking TD-SCDMA for the next 2 years at least.

I did like the story about CDMA-450 in China though, they are slow to act, which could be a good thing sometimes.

RE: "China's number two mobile carrier, would like to take a minority stake in a CDMA venture outside China in the next one to two years, Chairman Wang Jianzhou said on Friday."

I love it when the Chairman says these things.

RE: "Chinese telecoms equipment maker Datang Telecom revealed government plans on Friday to financially back an indigenous mobile phone technology "

Sounds like the typical hearsay that comes out of China.

China loves it when foreign companies pay for TD-SCDMA research, but I doubt if China is investing money.

RE: limtex--Here's the latest from Nokia:
http://www.telecomtv.com/newComms.php?cd_id=2883

According to Nokia, the "hot" places for growth are now Russia and India. China apparently is not considered that great a growth area by Nokia officials.

What are they smoking? I think that if you read between the lines, they are saying that expansion in China looks like it is going toward CDMA based systems, where Nokia would have trouble competing.

Again the above is from a SI post
My coments: I have to agree with the posterm NOK is full of it again. China has added over 50 million telecom users PER YEAR for the last 3 years. The expected growth in Russia and India for the next few years is miniscule in comparison.

RE: The business case for TD-SCDMA in China is persuasive. The special chips required should be a bit less expensive than the 6000 series QCOM chips. Phones made in China for the Chinese market, containing TD-SCDMA chips, will pay a very low royalty to QUALCOMM for its CDMA patents. China will have an advantage in manufacturing TD-SCDMA chips in China over any imported chips. Undoubtedly any collaboration with Siemens will be in the form of a production facility in China. Finally, the potential market in China is big enough so that China need not worry about compatibility with the rest of the world.
The superior performance embodied in CDMA2000 systems may not be as critical a factor in China as in other areas. On the other hand, for any nation, including China, lacking sufficient wired infrastructure, the way of the future is wireless, probably using some form of CDMA.

Show the above posted on SI and here are my comments:
In summary I feel TD-SCDMA has little to none chance of being commercially deployed in China. Possibly a token system at best.

There is no cost information on TD-SCDMA chips at this time, and anything is just a guess.
Existing QCOM royalty agreement with China does not include TD-SCDMA and I seriously doubt China has the capability of making TD-SCDMA chips.
If China should use TD-SCDMA, my guessitimate is, the market will be limited to under 150 million users. The chance for export is NIL.

RE: Viaero Wireless Picks Nokia to Be Sole Supplier of Its GSM Network;


I would love to see a follow up report after the conversio is completed. I would guess both the customers and operator will see it as a big mistake.

RE: The Time Value of Money. The sooner WCDMA gets here the better. Not even weighting in the new market for q chips.
Actually what I got out of the article is that TD-SCDMA is in a lot of trouble.

Read the Modoff report, WCDMA is sucking wind also.

RE: GSM1X
Ihavenoidea, here is my 2 cents:

1) Assuming the GSM1X trials are successful and GSM1X is commericalized, would someone explain to me why GSM1X won't be the 3G standards "killer application"?

GSM1x is a GSM upgrade not neccessarily 3G.

2) Chip to big?
Unknown, but QCOM have a single or dual chip solutuin while other chip makers use many chips.

3) No operator interested other than Unicom?
Yes for now, but I hope it will expand to the other 800 million GSM users once it is proven to work.

4) Will a GSM1x phone be more expensive than a WCDMA phone?
I dont see why, the PCS camera phones are under $400 and less.

5) Are chips for a WCDMA phone being commercially trailed right now like the GSM1X chips?
There are about 10 WCDMA handsets available now, see 3gnewroom.com and 3gtoday.com for the make and models. I have only seen a release about one GSM1x handset.

6) Will they get to market first?
WCDMA is to market first, but there are 'interoperability' problems slowing down the WCDMA build-out.

7) Will they be cheaper?
I dont have any info on the price of GSM1x handsets. The full unsubsidized price for WCDMA handsets was about $800 to $1000 a few ago, but I dont know if the prices have changed.

8) I don't see everyone in Korea clamoring for WCDMA, even tho the big carriers were saying several years ago that they were going WCDMA, don't see them saying that now - might be they are pretty happy w/ cdma20001x?
I think the Koreans understand what a mess WCDMA is today and are waiting before they jump in.

9) Why can't WCDMA get off the ground?
A classic example of 'Open Standard' at its worst.

10) 3 seems to be in big trouble.
Yes.
11) Infrastructure costs are hugh.
Yes, again.

12) Nokia sure is in no hurry to see wcdma hurt their legacy market, so they aren't going to be competition. Another 12 months and the fun will start (again).i
If GSM is replaced, NOK is screwed. They have 50% of the European GSM market and good market share in the others.

Dow Jones Putz,

I just read the Dow Jones article about WCDMA in China (posted on SI board). Once again a writer has failed to provide the entire story. I can not believe editors allow their writers to write such trash.

Anyway, no matter which, CDMA2000 or WCDMA China uses, QCOM gets royalties. You can not spell 3G without QCOM.

RE: Steve Wallage works and writes for the451. Steve has more than 13 years of experience as a technology analyst specializing in telecommunications.

May be that guy should do a report on the number of carriers that have weaseled out of their WCDMA licenses in Europe.