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Hey Dino:
I'll be there with ya..
Look at the bright side..With JG now installed as CEO..it should make for better theatre.i.e we don't have to wait for the Q&A-
Hey NYC..
If you are refering to my post..as I told Dread I was joking..I like to have fun and I'll admit I still can't get the visual out of my head of the GM of China's largest Automaker ( or more correctly a subsidiary of same) opening a gift box and getting "a slinky" or a package of Zweigle's hots etc..)..O.k But let me play Devil's advocate..Only thing I have ever seen from Fain as a matter of public record were the CEO reports which were downright gushing on the Company's Technology and it's promise..praising the founders for positioning the company for bright future "blah , blah blah..." Go back and read em.. They get back from China, where according to the filing he didn't perform up to expectations at the Table- the Executive Board says "we gotta get these guys outta here" (paraphrasing obviously)..They form their inside club ( The Executive Committee of the former BOD...) Fain's double secret Cousin via Marriage twice removed then with some restraint rails on the technology kinda insinuates that these "upstate Apple Knocker's" don;t know what the hell they are doing..I can;t believe I let Phil talk me into this.."..( Paraphrasing again..) O.K I got a little tongue in cheek here but WHO is telling US shareholder's "the truth"???? Fain in his letters to the shareholder's who he has said in the RBJ he is hanging around to protect????? or Carlisle in his second resignation ( the one with a little more elbow grease.????) Can't be both- it's a pickem..One of the two is not being square with the little shareholders they have pledged to look out for..Any comments ...am I totally off base here..??? and I'm no cheerleader..I want to make a little money for my special needs child's future ( p.s. I loved the "Retarded" Child line
someone composed earlier...not one of the board's finer moments- but there is enough grace to go around- So I still wish you nothing but peace and prosperity in all that you do )..
Regards
Leitrim
Oh Man..
That was positively "dreadful" - there moderator..Don;t give up your day job just yet..where did you get your cultural sensitivity- Phil Fain School of International Negotiation????
( I'm joking )
Signed
Bored beyond belief
Leitrim
Yeh I know..
What we have is a "five headed office of the CEO"???who knows maybe that will appeal to the Chinese??? for my money he may be alot quieter than JG, but Keith has quite a bit of skin in the game on this- his money, his time, his sweat..I sure wish HE would update the shareholders with any commercialization progress- tell us what they can with what is going on..I don't need to know any laundry about CXO..like Dread or Torvecian said.."We tried them- didn't work out- we canned them.." but tell your investors "Here is where we are TODAY and HERE is where we are going..." you go back a few annual meetings ago(I think it was the one with Martindale and Brooks)they had a really nice glossy powerpoint that showed us being a 350 million dollar company right about now and moving FTV's all over the planet like red hots @ Yankee stadium..O.K that's enough for today ...I'm starting to bore myself...
Hey Dyna:
I thought you would take the oppotunity to tell me ( and us weary longs) just exactly what your take is on "What is going on"..C'mon bro..I'm a pudding head.. I keep things really simple- very rudimentary..don't read too much into my posts- you'll get a headache for nothin..ain't anything else there...anybody here speak Chinese..give Peng Pu a call I'll split the bill with ya....
I'm taking a shot..
but I was assuming he was saying "What Is Going ON"..perhaps he really wanted to say WTFIGO..( use your imagination...:)..O.K now you can tell me your answer...nothing
Yes Basin..
The all important "WIGO" dilemma- has been the overriding personal challenge since I started investing here in late 99 2000..I'm not nearly as optimistic as Torvecian ( although that seems a little restrained with the events of late) nor am I quite as negative or conspiratorial ( sp?) in my thinking as Dyna or our new colleague from the Big Apple..Who is looking out for the shareholders-- I know who should be but who is??? .What concerns me now with the Executive committee totally running the company and calling all the shots..are we really a public company in anything other than name only...Say what you will about the CXO people as individuals and or as an organization (I know of atleast one of the managing partners that has left for greener pastures) but atleast their was an attempt to establish better communication with their investor partners....Bottom line you and I could slam many a dark rum wedge and not know a darn thing more than we do today..but perhaps we could numb the pain and anxiety on this one...Leitrim
Locker #963
stop on over
I would be up
for meeting and discussing the pro's and con's
of this investment..Set it up and I'll be there..
Leitrim..This format much like email in general it is too easy to be dismissive, unkind, less than forthright etc..it's a whole other deal to meet a lady and or gentleman and look them in the eye and speak your mind
P.S...Dread..
regretfully you can once again update the market cap numbers... ..can anybody say...poof...???
Reporter:
Don't dispute your post about the Iso torque -v- a newer "electronic" differential..but why then would Toyoda (Toyota's parent which has a pretty good track record -v- their American counterparts) pay 80 Million for the rights to the Torsen- a 50 year old mechanical differential as recent as two years back..???not being argumentative, not cheerleading ( what the fu8k is there to cheer about??) just interested in your take...
Leitrim
P.S Yes the company does owe us a little more explanation as to recent events than waiting for the occasional mandatory filing..Will we get any??/Not likely
It'll be interesting..
to see what happens next in this drama..It would certainly be encouraging to see these " gentlemen" come to some sort of agreement- even if the agreement is "we disagree"- let's face it neither firm has unlimited resources or can afford to devote a ton of attention to legal stalemate..If that were to happen you can bet your a$$ that neither one (TOVC and or CXO)gives a rat's rump about us individual shareholders..If I seem a tad testy lately it is really this... after Enron, TYCO,Global Crossing et al..I'm losing faith that the individual shareholder has much of a shot these days...Big bucks= Big Egos= big time shenanigans--- not always but all too often as of late....I'll be happy to come around- I'm Irish after all we can be dark but prefer to be light hearted and partying...!!!!!Leitrim
Maybe he's working EOM
Yes...
OH I'll be on the West..See ya..
yeh Invest
I was there
He tried to jump on Dino like he was a 17 year old punk stealing from his garage- not a man who invested a tidy sum of cash in his Family's business venture....disrespectful, unfair..just plain rude..I understand the rough and tumble stuff but I also understand plain ole Paranoia..I'm going golfing while I can still afford it..later ya'll have a good weekend...Fore...
Just read..
the Article..If you have attended the Annual Meetings, This really comes as no surprise..One of the largest private shareholders is someone I know well..Even this individual rolls his eyes when Jg gets up to pontificate..I mean speak....This has nothing whatsover to do with the Technology- but what it does support is someone's opinion when voiced a long time ago ( Either Dread or Dig if memory serves correct) That Jim certainly has the potential of being a "deal killer"- too emotionally invested ( can you imagine calling someone a cousin of the CEO in a freakin Government filing of a Public company when you know it is NOT the case- but you let it fly cause you are pissed off ????)Hope our attornies aren;t getting paid along with the phone company..Torvecian- you had a little fun at my expense when I asked a question about the timing of the release of the Peng Pu confidential discussions- which was a question not a statement of fact or an opinion just a question..but with respect to your opinion of enduring a public "ass whipping"..I would argue that 95% of it is brought on by nothing other than the Founder's arrogance, attitude towards their fellow owners, and overall conduct..I realize they wish to God they didn;t have to take this public to raise capital to try and get their Father's genius to market- but the fact remains that they did..You want to be glorifed, deified as a steward of the shareholder's investment???( i.e avoid the "ass whippings"- well do What Tom Golisano does/did..He conducts himself with class, treats people the way he would like to be treated, and most of all he is interested in rewarding the owners for their investment in PAYX.He understood who he worked for..Big difference..As my Pops said you can;t teach someone to be classy...This stuff - some of it is really indefensible..I realize Big Buck could be involved but for God's sake it is almost childish in content and tone.." Chintsey one might say..
Thank you all
for your comments....
Leitrim
Follow up question..
What was the purpose of Shanghai's / Peng Pu's confirmation of confidential talks via their website/PR sources??Why the timing - the same day as our "Peyton Place" 8K?? Could that have been @ Request of Gleasman's to throw us longs a "lucrative bone" to chew on (to quote Phil??) interested in anyone's thoughts on the matter..either way I think we are heading towards some type of resolution/outcome with this investment..can;t give you a timeframe but something has to give one way or the other..licensing and or sale of everything and or no interest whatsover..shareholders get tired of the perception of founders 'stepping on their dicks" and everybody sells..I'll start the popcorn....
Leitrim
Gap
Brilliant post..( and I am long...very long..)
Actually..
I think it was CXO's Chatman that was quoted by someone after a phone call and or email...He was the "Project Manager" of the FTV asset so I'm assuming that makes sense..Yes the tone of this stuff is really surprising..I always worried about litigation in this investment but thought it would patent infrigment stuff that occupied our legal counsel not Board infighting..Hey atleast we're not bored and have something to talk about on a steamy monday..Re-read Carlisle's but insert "My cousin" in front of everytime he says Phil Fain- Him trashing the tech on the way out the door ( whether it was true or not- the testing aspects I'm refering to.) was kinda mind blowing and to say that the new Executive Board is determined to not let that " see the light of day'or the confessional- Yeh I'm no lawyer but that could get lawyers trigger happy ..I think Keith and Jim are extremely loyal to Dobbs and his connection to VG so when you see his name mentioned..You know there are some really pissed off people on both sides...forget Donald Trump- how would you like to have had cameras rolling on this drama over the past 2-3 months.. A lot of Testoerone flowing on this one and anybody who has caught Jim's show @ Annuals..well He ain't bashful
to share what's on his mind..
..
Quick thought...
I have to bet that this may be a USA business first in that the word "chintzy" has made it into an SEC filing..Could be wrong but I doubt it...ultimately "you hired em you fired em..." If that in fact allows for a deal whether it is "lucrative and or ludicrious" makes no never mind to me..somebody could write a book about this one..maybe somebody will some day... I just wanna make a buck or two and live to fight another day...:)
Hey Dread..
a lot too digest that is for sure...In all honesty, If I didn't have what for me is a significant investment in this enterprise,I would have found the filing a compelling read..As it is- It is sort of troubling..Carlisle is/was Fain's cousin??C'mon isn't that sort of material info shareholders would have liked to know??? Yikes.. All in all nothing is as constant as change- but at the same time..The majority shareholders have been telling us little folks for years now of "overwhelming interest and support " of the Industry- sooner or later they have to deliver the goods..If they have all this gravitas in the industry and years of experience in negotiations with domestic and foreign players in the Industry..why on earth did they toss the keys to a glorified cost accountant from a sunglass company to go over to China and insult the hosts with cheap gifts..???Seriously..It is a definitely a "he said she said"- but I'll tell you one thing...I think JG could certainly stand to read the book about everything you need to know you learned in Kindergarten..You know the one I'm talking about??? He is either gonna bring this thing in to the port for one hell of a welcome home party or blow it up for everybody..Let's see what happens I suppose..I hope he is guided more by seeing his Father's legacy enriched than by day to day ego issues
Leitrim
Hey Dread:
How about a new survey?? Formal or Informal doesn;t matter to me...I'm curious about the I-Hub's
general consensus.."Will Torvec Management ( i.e this Executive Committee) be able to deliver a 'commercializing event' in fiscal 2005.." ??
Honest Injun- I wouldn't know how to vote at this presise moment in time..But here is a hunch..If there is one- it will be consummated and announced before the end of August and if not- there will be nothing announced in 2005..I don't know why I feel that way- I just do..As always all questions, comments, insults welcomed..Leitrim
No..
I think he said "My brother and I can really work with these guys".. Now,Whether the feeling was mutual ...who knows..Maybe all the work is done like my new friend Bilge may have alluded too and The Executive committee who are calling the shots....well they own a hell of alot of stock..so maybe that is why they dissolved the Board and Carlisle bailed..It's time for the major shareholders to negotiate on behalf of all shareholders..???..either that or I could be hallucinating it's 92 out and I've been outside working...
Thanks
for your post and your candor..It is nice to get straight talk and I appreciate your assessment..
Regards
O.K..I'll admit..
I'm once again puzzled by this one..So this new Executive Committee is now sort of supercedes the Board in carrying out TOVc business?? ARE CXO guys still engaged??If not wouldn't that be a material change??? Why is Carlise resigning via email to Mcnamara is the Board has been dissolved in favor of the Executive Committee??? Can anyone help..Is there anyway to put a potentially positive spin on this ( other than the conflict of interest angle- which I admit I do like that one..)
Can anyone help out a simple minded salesman just trying to make a buck...Thanks in advance...Leitrim
Yukon...
No need to apologize..I think everybody's shorts can get a little bound on this investment as it is a little like watching grass grow at times, and I think many have perhaps bigger bets placed than they are comfortable with at times..Waiting for the river card to play out..
That's an interesting handle
Can I read into anything of it like "eggs are cheaper in the country and so are the cars...that kinda stuff"..If you are bashful responding, no problem I get it..but I imagine you do hear more about TOVC and where we are today than most of us "city dwellers"....
Best Regards and Welcome..Leitrim
Could be..but
I think the past mentioning of VG's B-day was when he was around
so that he could get a kick out of it..but you may be right..I think you are right about an update of some kind in the next week or two if history holds..We are officially half way through 2005, which was stated an the Annual meeting as " just may be our year"..Let's hope so..They were reasonably optimistic about some "sort of deal or partnership" on the FTV hitting the books this year..let's hope so..it sure would be fun to have something to watch and talk about ..Regards to all..Leitrim
I have heard no rumors
just the stuff posted here but for those that attended the Annual Meeting..they were so blatently confident and very verbal about the IVT LOI with Troitec- that should be done " at any day"..SOMETHING had to happen didn't it????..as it's now seven months later..maybe more bidders and or suitors/ better terms etc..but after saying something like that to shareholders in a very public forum -shouldn't they be able to tell here's the deal..or is that only in the case of litigation like the deal that blew up with the outfit in Indiana??Guys I wanna believe silence is golden, the calm before the storm, and any other money making metaphor we can throw out, but I'm with Digger, sometimes this is extruciating..Christ I'm as long as just about anyone so don;t throw the short or basher label willy nilly just let me know what's going on..I get really bad on my most paranoid of days and think this ship will still come in but still not for another couple of years..I won;t make it- I'm an american..show me the money..make something and let's sell it..O.K rant over...
I have heard no rumors
Gap:
you may want to change your handle in the future
to throw people off...try "Chuckblackhat" ..something like that..It's a real small town friend and this board is like a little "cyber diner" where the locals get together to bitch alot and dream a little....
Welcome- stick around..I haven;t heard squat about these rumors from the Far East which is probably just as well for my blood pressure, sales career and golf scores..I'm easily distracted...I can wait to be pleasantly blindsided if it were to happen...rumors don;t pay the mortgage
Leitrim
Invest
Quite a change of heart from post
2173...That must be some rumor??? Best to keep things on the Q.T. however..is it safe to say it was
"dot connecting" good stuff..???? As I've stated ad naseum, we need something real to get volume/interest/coverage..I'm in probably for the next six months- but would probably have attended my last Annual Meeting as a shareholder if we're sitting here at three bucks a share..Hoping for the "Carlisle Effect.."( What else can one do at this point...)
Wonder if..
We'll ever hear Fain's take on the Darpa Selection process..Better yet, how about a quote or two from our new Directors on management's strategy/pace/action plan towards monetization..I would love to hear David Carlise talk in general terms about how he's gonna help get some of our "cool stuff" to market to his network of OEM's...... anybody else up for that.../Dino 15 rounds would be a walk in the park..this one is more like the "Iron Man" with no shoes, food or water...
What factors...????
most likely a lawyer saying.."we shouldn't say that right about now.." I would have to think there are minor regrets over saying there was a letter of intent "expected from Troitec automotive- a division of Chery- any day now" or "at any moment" back at the Annual Meeting.. Well that was about six months ago- listen, my business has unique selling cycles and scenarios totally unique to the industry so I get that- however..when I'm dealing with my bosses on a particular Account and use "any day now" or at "any moment" on an account sales strategy...well, that's what I mean..If I mean probably in six or twelves months or so- that's what I say...As Torvecian correctly points out- we can second guess the overall strategy but are not really privy to what is going on..all we can work with here as longs is what is coming out from the company..and the messages are indeed mixed, frayed, anything but cohesive..I would not be investing money in this company at this point...( no I'm not selling either..I'm a big fat hold who is bored with this investment)
Hey Dread & Co.
While I applaud the depth and clarity of Fain's message, there doesn't appear from my vantage point, to be anything imminent in the content to be construed as close to monetization..Am I alone or have they hit the brakes or has the gas somewhat gone out of the prior messages..you know the immediate future being "the best of times for TOVC shareholders etc"..I know, if I 've held for 6 years what is 2-3 more to see significant return..??? Torvecian, I wish I was enlightened enough on this industry in general or the perils of holding a development stage stock as you seem to be, but after a while one has to factor in the opportunity cost of having a big chunk parked where the stock no longer trades..I know it's my hard earned money and I'm a big boy so let the chips fall where they may..BUT Do I think Reporter is 100% on the money with his take???Maybe not but I don;t think he is all wet either at this point in time ....Regards to all
Leitrim
Hi Ballo...
you didn't happen to inquire just when things would start
improving did ya...??? Please tell me they said "weeks and not years" :) Sorry that was easy...just a smile to pass the time...
Dig..
for what it's worth..I work in same Office complex as "World Headquarters"- have popped on over on occasion to check stuff out etc..sometimes there will be some engineers on computers that will chat, sometimes I imagine the the engineers are getting their hands dirty on testing of the IVT off site, and the Gleasman's and the CXO guys are I think are often off premises...traveling, in meetings etc.It isn't unusual I don't think then for the doors to be locked for a few days and no answers to emails etc..I have sent a few.. sometimes Jim responds, sometimes he responds to say he can't respond, and sometimes nothing but silence..Is this unusual for start up???don't know but this is run extremely lean which I guess ain't such a bad thing til there is something with some $$$ attached to it..For What it's worth...I could be all wet- often am..
Hey..
Can anyone provide a "non engineer speak" interpretation of the CEO's update on the IVT??? I thought all along that type of efficiency was the main advantage the main thing to crow about..you know the optimum gearing , always running in the sweet spot no matter what the range??? What is the "new wrinkle in all of this??And what does it mean.. I share your frustration Digger..even the updates do not say much..I wish I could just forget this till mid September open it up take a look and just hold for good or just sell all..
Interesting..