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balamidas,
Thanks for the information and also for including the source! Government printing office would not have been one of the places I would have thought to look at!
Nez
OT, corrected version on previous post, my voice recognition program is not recognizing me today that well!
Fourwinns,
Thank you for your efforts and after spending much time looking into the point you raised a key point and I can find no falt in any of your positions. Logic tells me you spoke nothing but the truth.
For person just starting out learning about trading, having someone like yourself inspire and challenge me to think in ways that make me realize that I have neglected to consider as many possibilities as I can do to the fact that I was afraid to acknowledge my own mistaken thinking. Thanks for the inspiration and gut check.
Self-delusion in trading is probably the worst mistake I can make. I can see now the D&D also includes learning about "the basics of how the system works" and trying to learn about all the ways the system can be used. Thank you also for your efforts to help the board get back on track.
You've started me thinking in ways I would never have before with your simple, straightforward and blunt posts.
I know your agenda is the same as all traders, to make money but also to trade well.
JMO and my apologies for any apparent disrespect that may have come accross. I had no intention of conveying feelings like this.
TTYL I hope,
Nez
Fourwinns,
Thank you for your efforts and after spending much time looking into the point you raised a key find no fall at any of your positions. Logic tells me he spoke nothing but the truth.
For person just starting out learning about trading, having someone like yourself inspire and challenge me to think in ways that make me realize that I have neglected to consider as many possibilities as I can do to the fact that I was afraid to acknowledge my own mistaken thinking. Thanks for the inspiration and gut check.
Self-delusion in trading is probably the worst mistake I can make. I can see now the D&D also includes learning about "the" basics of how the system works and trying to learn about all the ways the system can be used. Thank you also for your efforts to help the board get back on track.
You've started me thinking in ways I would never have before with your simple, straightforward and blunt posts.
I know your agenda is the same as all traders, to make money but also to trade well.
JMO and my apologies for any apparent disrespect that may have come accross. I had no intention of conveying feelings like this.
TTYL I hope,
Nez
Fourwinns,
the beauty of your position is that it knowingly or unknowingly places into the scenario "human nature," which as we all know deep down is flawed and well...greedy. Sorry to say so but the truth is the truth. I'm not saying I am accepting all you have presented as I have not had the time to consider it, research it, investigate it or test it. After all, and I mean no offense, I don't know who you are or what your agenda may be but from your post I have no choice but to take it at face value and then make the effort and spend the "brain time" either proving it right or disproving it.
I am grateful to you as you have inspired me to consider things from perspectives I was naive to or afraid to face. For this I thank you because anytime someone challenges me to think critically I feel I am ahead if I take advantage of the opportunity.
GLTY and thanks very much. I hope I can survive this period of my effort in spite of my relative small investment so we can have further discussions both with you and others about these topics.
You have given me much to digest!
Nez
FOURWINNS
If this is the case, then when longs tie up much of the Authorized shares and as I have advocated, "zipped" (or held regardless) they are basically forcing 'the man" to be forced into doing something draconian and detrimental to the longs to force either them giving up and selling at profit far less than their dreams or we will force "TM" into finding another means to free up shares, or decrease the long holders willingness to hold by shaking thier confidence. Possibly eliminating the current group and replacing it with one less committed and informed.
Flipping makes the PK world go round!?!!
I've got alot to learn or maybe just accept,
Nez
I give it a shot from my ignorance....companies lisred in PKs do so for the express purpose of raising or making money for the companys desires, provides two outs.. company catches on and makes money or company flops and company covers investmnent debt and makes money.
Just my synical but skewed logic. If I'm way off base, Feel free to tell me I don't belong here, as I feel I may have figured that out already.
nez
I will probably be spending days, literally, wiith this site! there are some links I had seen in the past like the one with the "Market Reform Petition" put up by "Sanity Check" and there are links to many, many other educational and also proactive sites.
May or may not apply to our current situation but in the long run there are issues here that, IMHO, must be addressed or at least examined.
TTYL,
Nez
The issue seems to be gathering scrutiny..
I didn't even know of this group....
"National Coalition Against Naked Shorting - Failing to Deliver"
http://www.ncans.net/
Nez
Interesting perspective on "naked short trading"...IMHO, good read.
h**p://www.fool.com/news/commentary/2005/commentary05033008.htm
FWIW,
Nez
I don't remember where I read the post or posts (probably other boards) that insinuated or called into question, whether or not some things found on the ATWT web site have been done yet in words like "just because it is on ATWTS, site doesn't make it so" (paraphrasing) but even if this is "old news," it made me realize that I overlooked confirmation due to personal negligence on my part so I just went to "West Bends" site,
http://www.wbmi.com/Common/ASPDocuments/default.asp
and I didn't find mention of ATWT...UNTIL, I clicked on the "NSI tab"
http://www.national-specialty.com/Common/ASPDocuments/default.asp
and then clicked on the "programs tab"
http://www.national-specialty.com/programs/aspdocuments/programs.asp
and chose the "Child Care Programs", this is where you will find "West Bend" confirming ATWTs achievement on their own site. So much for that. Thanks for everyones patience.
Nez
Neo,
IMHO, one of the few things he can do is call attention to the problem. How to do that would be pure speculation from a person that does not have the experience or knowledge to comment.
I do know I have come across other instances where CEOs and others have gone on public record about the problem and how to solve them, so the best I can say is my belief that there is a problem is based on these other companys public recognition or complaints about NSing, together with my own personal opinion that this stock pps is not behaving as it would if there was not negative influences at work here, which I can't put a name to but only guess at. If the problem is real, can it be fixed? IMHO only if the regulatory agencys reponsible want to fix it.
JMO and this is all I can offer, toher than lets be patient and confident that Mr. Wiley will follow through with the filings, applications and number releases he said would be coming. He just didn't say when.
Absolutly my own personal opinions and I have little trading experience (if you diden't guess already!LOL),
Nez
This should put some people's minds to rest. IMHO, the company, at the very least, deserves to recieve the benifit of the dobt from us until we hear from them.
In my mind this is further proof of the companys commitment to the shareholders. Someone had asked if the company was addressing the issue of the "shorting by MMs as PLNI is."
I guess this is our answer and it seems they are on top of things.
JMH,
Nez
In 2006 there have now been at least twenty-six deaths of small children after being left inside a hot vehicle.
Link:<<<http://ggweather.com/heat/>>>>
JMO but even one is to many.
Nez
Bell,
At least one can check 'The List" to see if the symbol in question is going to do something like that ...
h**p://www.otcbb.com/dailylist/index_2006.htm
From what I understand, if one is vigilant checking the list which is updated consistantly, you will have at least a days warning. I check it daily. I thought it was not for PKs but I have seen them on it.
JMHO but I agree with rvs1020.
Again all I post is my opinion,
Nez
JMHO,
If you have been watching the board for some months, the subject of the "pain level" of holding ATWT was talked about in some depth.
I don't think the "pain" anyone is feeling at this point was unexpected, especially if one has been here through many of the past peaks and valleys traveled by this stock.
I don't think people are shook to the point of taking a loss at this point (you only take a loss when you sell) as one might surmise from reading the board over the past week or so.
Rather I think what is going on here is we are utilizing the "board" for one of the beneficial aspects boards like this offer and that is they offer a place to "vent" or voice ones frustration to people who have at least the stock in common and therefore have at least that level of fraternatity.
I guess what I'm saying is that if you are new to the stock, don't read to much more than the "venting" issue into what you are reading here.
Again, JMO and have a great weekend,
Nez
Mak,
thanks for the DD. Good post, interesting to read. Excellent idea to "google" the subject you chose. Thanks again.
I never would have thought to check it out from that angle.
Nez
To all those holding 1M+ shares: You folks have my complete respect because I know there is no way I would be able to have the fortitude that you folks demonstrate everyday. I know one day your efforts will pay off...in spades!
Nez
Anyone have any insight on what, if any, the effects of election yrs/months/weeks/days on stocks are?
Just wondering, probably no noticable effect.
Nez
If I was a CEO of a company, I think I would be pretty reluctant to play games with the law at the same time I am working with and lobbing legislators (who make the law) to "look" at my company and its products.
I would also be reluctant to "tick" off an insurance company thats business is to a degree dependant on its reputation that it has taken years to establsh.
I doubt they would be happy to have their reputation potentially tarnished due to the fact that they were "conned" into a business relationship with a company that was "crooked." I think "West Bend" has more sense than that.
I have yet to see definate proof that Mr. Wiley is such a man or that ATWT is just a tool to further his agenda. Seems like a big risk especially with all the scrutiny that the investing world is expereincing.
JMHO,
Nez
Seeker,
Nice, thanks for the effort.
Nez
Hurricane,
thanks for saving me some time!
Nez
fp,
thanks for the clairification.
Nez
Steveo,
I wonder how much "airtime" is actually available. I heard or read somewhere that almost all of the avail. "airtime" has been bought up by political campaigns. If this is true, we might have to wait until after the election before any "airtime" is available for us.
JMHO,
Nez
IMO,
When one looks at the overall markets and where they closed today and the way ATWT behaved together with all the other new postings on the board today, I don't think it was a bad day after all. Don't forget that we were at .0037, we had news, and it seems, and I stress "seems", more than obvious based on what we know that there are forces at work here that are working very hard to keep this stock down! There will come a point where the only thing to hold us back will be nothing. That day is coming! Stay zipped!
Nez
Fourwinds,
Great call! Right on the money, or lack thereof! LOL! Thanks for the time you spent here today. I found it helpful and look forward to hearing from you in the future.
Nez
Joker,
here is an excerpt from the Oct. 18th letter to the shareholders from Mr. Wiley.
Apparently we are now in the "review" stage of the audit and I imagine that will be a bit quicker than the original audit. If this is the case, I assume the filing of the application to the OTC could be anytime and we will have no clue until it is filed. Wonder how that news will be recieved? Then again, I don't know if this is accurate, but I thought someone was of the opinion that the filing to the QX should coincide with the roll out of the new board to get all the exposure that being on the list of the new board would naturally generate publicity wise. Again I not certian but I believe there is a date for the "roll out" of the new board. What it is I don't want to say as I am not certian but when and if I confirm the date, I will post it.
I'm sure someone else knows what it is or exactly where to get it. Any way, here is the segment;
Excerpt from letter to investors from Mr. Wiley Oct. 18......
"4. The company is proceeding with its audit of financial statements from 2002-2006 in two phases. ATWEC's local accountants will complete the audit by the end of October, which will then be reviewed by Rotenberg and Company of Rochester, N.Y. After review, ATWEC will file its application with the OTC QX and will not release audited financials until that time. However, release of unaudited financial statements for 2006 and projections for fiscal 2007, based on sales in this first quarter and contracts recently signed, will be released next week."
sorry if this was redundant,
Nez
I agree, but I still won't rule out a totally unexpected and off the wall occurance. As long as humans are involved, I think anything is possible!
Nez
At least they are doing it on a down day for the overall markets. Seems like the timing just fell in line for maintaining stealth.
Nez
abb,
I had no idea that was the case. I guess it makes sense as the bigger the customer, the more attention and benifits they will get. I feel like a jerk! But at least I'm adding to my knowledge base....I think!
Nez
Rue,
Thanks, forgot about that possibility and I'm sure you are right that there are other common sense and logical answers.
Nez
Seeker,
Any idea who would be in a position to continually place trades of under a dollar while with S.T. at least, the commission is $7.00 +?
This has got me really baffled unless these trades are being falsely broadcast. Really scratching my head here but am enjoying the mystery and the challenge to figure it out.
I will always believe that in the end, truth will be all that is left and the beutiful thing about the truth is...it can never change.
Nez
oiler,
in an earlier post I refered to a feature on S.T. ticker called "Market Movers." When you combine it with level 2 views, you can see the trades, and no kidding, the MMs invloved with the "obscure" companys that suddenly trade for a day with 1,00,000 plus trades that I have never been able to get a shot at, the MMs involved are many times the ones you ticked off.
Good insight.
Nez
Ab,
thanks for your post. It is nice to see others reasoning along lines that ones self is. Especially when ones self (me) can only rely on logic.
Nez
Taki,
I for one am very leery of "conspiracy" theories, but when I see things going on like this which fly in the face of logic, I have to lean towards the idea that something is trying desperatly to cloud reality by confusing and faking out as many as possible into "fear selling or panic selling".
JMHO,
Nez
Rue,
that is exactly my point. At one time a very close associate of mine thought the sun rose and set on him. In order to show this person why I felt as negative about him as I do, I had to follow and record as much of his history as I could and luckily at the time he had a web site which said much.
thanks,
Nez
MG,
What do you mean when you say "harpooning?" I don't understand the phrase. Do you mean that you feel the company is doing so?
I may be naive but I have been taking the company at its word that they are done.
If this is true, how do you know or learn such info?
Any tips on uncovering information about these difficult to assess PK's, or the MMs handling of them, would be or is a plus for us all.
TIA,
Nez
OT, General Question..
Does anyone recall (I seem to) that at the start of the board called "Stock Spot" a person named Lebed either was involved in its start up or was one of the people "alerting" the world to it?
Just curious because I know there was a reason I soured on it. I don't know if I was right to but I did.
TIA,
Nez
mg,
I have been looking for anything along those lines but have come up dry. That doesn't mean anything as my DD skills leave much to be desired. i did however find this with plni.
Nez
Thanks pete.
and the company continues to work at doing what they said they would....protecting their investment, (same as protecting children) and looking out for thier investors by fighting faceless negitive pps influences.
JMHO,
Nez
JMHO, Also, interesting that there was an alleged signal this am at 9:38 @ 49 that supposedly means that mm's needed shares. Then we sat until 10:08 with no trades, the scare tactics began on the board. then another signal for shares at 13:22 and the posters on the board increase their fear tactics, the sky is falling, etc. The weak hands are falling for it and are selling them the needed shares. Let's keep them zipped!!! Mine are NOT for sale!! All IMHO!! Nobody can tell me a "regular joe" is going to spend more money on a commission for buying or selling 100 lousy shares. There has got to be more to it or these are folks who don't worry about commissions.
Nez