Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Hey Tor...
I have Jim's phone number and he has mine ( as does everybody else here)..If I wanted to ask him- I'm perfectly willing and able to do so..I thought the primary purpose of these boards was to encourage discussion and debate re: individual investment decisions between fellow investors??? .I'm starting to think your keyboard has a special one stroke key labeled " "call the company and ask them"- could be located right next to the "I've never felt better about the state of my investment" key..( I have some contacts holding large six figure chunks @ 6-10 bucks a share that have had a hard time finding that keystroke past 24 months....)
Regards
Leitrim
General question..
from the "FTV CEO update.." Does anyone know when the prototype for the FTV was completed and how ( meaning by whom, where, how..i.e did they do it themselves by hand -part by part etc.. ) With respect to Jim's point of the capital required prior to any auto company taking on such an ambitious plan while I don't doubt the validity- I guess what I'm trying to rememeber is this: isn't the manufacturing of the FTV significantly easier than say the typical automobile assembly process(because of the component sections of the undercariage , less parts, the new steer drive etc..) I'm not saying "easy" by any stretch ( I know it's not a toaster).... Help me out manufacturing types????..Thanks in advance Leitrim
I totally
buy the "what" of the ISO Torque technology and the balence of Jim's message, but it's the "who and the when" of the following quote that requires so much patience and flat out faith that makes this investment so intriguing and yet the same time incredibly frustrating......
...."We are involved in extensive discussions with companies to establish a strategic alliance to outsource the production and manufacture of Iso-Torque's for the worldwide auto industry".........In addition, isn't it also fair to say auto companies have shelved a ton of technology that dramatically improved safety..but if it IN ADDITION saved them millions/billions..then isn't it more likely to see the light of day..???? I do welcome the increased pace and content of the communication..I hope this is indeed a sign that things are increasing in the pace of devleopment..As someone else said..we have products to demonstrate..and they have been dramatically improved and updated since inception...best of luck friends...
Regards
Leitrim
Dyna:
Good Halloween morning..I don't have an answer to your question but I do think this will be hashed out in that Summary Judgement action..This whole thing is really pretty simple for me- The G's hired them, they were unsatisfied, they fired them..Now we go to court to determine who deserves what...If things go the way they usually go- no one will be the clear winner and neither side will be totally happy and or vindicated.
Granted I'm skipping over a whole lot of drama- were contracts signed the ones filed etc etc..I'll await the next CEO update on the ISO torque..We need some Holiday momentum and Seasons cheer..Everybody is a we bit pissy here as of late...Leitrim
Well Said
Gap ( Piano)..CXO refers to themselves as "World Class" Consultancy and "seasoned" "battle tested" Executives etc etc rah rah rah ( with alteast ten more tired MBA buzz word cliches..)and TOVC keeps refering to "Paradigm shifting technology" that has the "overwhelming interest" of the automotive industry..bottom line as we stand here at this point in time..neither has been able to prove their case to the TOVC long shareholder..now they go to court to determine who hurt who's feelings more, who is trying to screw who....Hey sorry CXO but I'm a shareholder and I don.t think you've earned 6 Mill for your troubles..etc...
Bottom line ..Let's the light the candle already ..I'm weary..want to go out to dinner with Dyna, Dino, Tor, Digger, NYC whoever else wants to tag along ( maybe Piano Man can tickle the ivories for a few numbers..??) hoist a Guiness and enjoy a steak..Jim G. also invited as the evening's M.C.. I Don;t think he would mind spending a few hours dissecting the motivations of this group...C'mon Peng Pu..get the jump ..let's get this party started..
Tor:
your interpretation and or take on this quote from the filing...
"In the Board's view, the timing of the resignations is troublesome since Messrs. Fain and McNamara had previously refused to resign as directors on August 19th. Their resignations occur just at the time the company published its most recent CEO Update on its website, www. torvec.com, and filed the same with the Securities and Exchange Commission on October 25, 2005."
Why is the resignation or lack thereof troublesome now as respects timing..What am I missing...???Thought comments welcomed
Leitrim
I'd be
a little more pissed If I didn't own some XOM!!!.Hey you have to hedge your bets!! As Jim G likes to say people can be pissed all they like, but they aren't going to stop driving..that inelastic supply demand thing...........
Dyna:
I for one appreciate the candor..Don't you love all the gamblers that come back from Vegas or Turning Stone and can;t wait to tell about there $3200 windfall??? What you never hear is that they are still down $8000 for the year !! as I told you I was on that PSC ship too..was fortunate to jump off when they bumped on the rumor that Welch Allyn was going tobuy..Still ended up down 30-40 % but you know I'm a big boy I bought the stock-just like this one will be nobody's fault but my own if this never gets airborn..If it does...well Jim will never have to buy another hot dog at the Office Park Stand..He'd be "comped for life" ...red or white..hot sauce or kraut included...If nothing else JG's latest Summary outlines just exactly what they are attempting to do to close a deal and the numbers alone speak to the patience discipline and just plain ole stamina required with the capital expenditures required by the end user before we make money..just rambling thoughts on a Thursday..Dyna..It gets that bad you can crash on the Futon in the guest room..I have your back...
Regards
In the "had to happen" department..
"Toyota set to pass GM as world's largest"
All Financial Times NewsToyota Motor is poised to become the world's largest carmaker, ousting General Motors of the US from the top spot, according to a new business plan to be released in December.
The plan is expected to state Toyota aims to make more than 9.2m vehicles in the year to March 2007 – a figure that should allow it to surpass GM if the US carmaker continues to suffer from falling sales and is forced to curtail production.
Recent investing newsArrow Financial Corporation Declares Cash Dividend Janus 3Q Profit Drops 33 Percent LandAmerica Names J. Stevenson Fletcher Senior Vice President - Corporate Planning ServiceMaster Announces Fourth Quarter Cash Dividend New Mexico Software Going 'On the Road' in San Diego
Toyota is already the most profitable carmaker in the world, having reported a net profit of Y1,171bn ($10bn) in the year to March 2005, while profits at GM and Ford have been hit by a series of financial difficulties. GM on Monday reported a net loss of $1.63bn in the July-September quarter.
Toyota said the company was not fixated on becoming the world's largest carmaker in terms of volume. "We are always thinking about a turndown. We are not rushing just to build market share," a spokesman said.
But the Japanese company's rise is likely to touch a raw nerve in the US, where legislators have accused Japan of deliberately weakening its currency to bolster exports. The yen is trading at about Y115 to the dollar compared with the carmakers' own forecasts of Y105.
These accusations have been countered aggressively by Toyota, which commissioned research that concluded in 2003 it generated jobs for about 386,000 people in the US, once ancillary parts suppliers and other associated companies were included.
The December plan is expected to strengthen Toyota's defence against these allegations by revealing it should produce more vehicles outside Japan than inside for the first time as it transfers manufacturing away from Japan to lower-cost countries and the US, its main market.
Achieving the production target set out in the new plan will involve increasing production by about 900,000 units a year, with its operations in the US, China, Thailand and eastern Europe expected to account for the majority of the increase.
The demands of these new targets, however, could put strain on the quality of Toyota's products as well as those of its major suppliers, which are already struggling to meet demand.
Toyota recently announced it would recall 1.41m cars globally – the largest recall in its history – as a result of problems in 16 of its models that led to faults with the headlights.
This was followed by the recall of 160,000 of its high-profile Prius gasoline-electric hybrid cars worldwide after it was revealed they may stall unexpectedly.
Copyright 2005 Financial Times
Hey dread..
Yeh that is interesting when a manager calls up to be quoted as opposed to the other way around, but with a bigger picture in mind..what's the old saying.."opinions are like ********" well 'nuff said..Hey George has plenty of company here in Roch that this is a fool hardy club of investors and endeavor which we are invested in- and alot of these folks are very smart well respected business folks..who is right and who will be proven wrong???..we shall see..in the meantime I can almost hear JG doing his best "Dave Johnson Impression..." "And down the Stretch they come......"
Well Said
Galileo and as always, a pleasure to hear from my man Dyna.. (I have nothing but love for everybody...) Along those lines and keeping in with a healthy debate,Me in my google induced haze found this story which I believe we touched on at the time..Cautious deliberation/negotiations on part of our management team is probably going to best serve us all ( sorry for not listing the publication- I don;t know what is was dread but as you must know by now, I'm clearly not bright enough to write this on my own....)
"
Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (in Chinese: è„äCãD≥µçH“µ(èWÕ≈)◊‹åˆéi; Pinyin: Shàngh®£i Qichï Gõngyè (Jítuán) Z®Ønggõngs¥; or è„ãD, Shàngqi; abbreviated SAIC) is one of the "Big 3" Chinese automakers. SAIC partnered with General Motors to form GM Shanghai and the Pan-Asia Technical Automotive Center, and also owns 20 percent of Chery, another Chinese automaker. SAIC also partnered with Volkswagen Group in the formation of Volkswagen Group China.
In August 2004, it was learned that SAIC was in talks to buy Britain's MG Rover. In November, it was announced that SAIC could take a 70 per cent stake in a joint venture company shared with MG Rover in return for its £1 billion investment. However, in April 2005, it emerged that SAIC would not proceed with the MG Rover deal, after concerns about the British automaker's financial stability. This news sent MG Rover into administration. SAIC claimed it had acquired certain rights to MG Rover products, most notably the 25 and the long-wheelbase 75, a fact disputed by the administrators. It also emerged that the company was negotiating with British engineering firms for tooling up in China.
In June 2005, it emerged that SAIC held the rights to the MG TF sports car. Commentators in the British media claimed that the rights were transferred by its former owner, MG Rover, to SAIC 'accidentally'.
The company is planning to release both its own version of the Rover 75 and a Chinese version of the Ssangyong RX320 SUV by 2007.
O.K..
At the risk of being labeled 'Dread Light"..
Here is another google nibble from a search on torvec Directors..was dated in 1999 ..
Lee E. Sawyer, Director, has extensive wholesale experience with Ford
and Toyota and was part of the teams that successfully launched Hyundai
and Kia Motors into the US marketplace
Torvecian or others..This must be our man..no??? I hope he's rested and ready to roll...
Leitrim
O.K I'm done for the day I promise..
I agree..
The update on it's own is not a PR, but the fact that they have brought somebody credentials to launch FTV rollout in N.A.- that to me seems newsworthy..anybody know who that someone is???I seem to recall a person with that resume leaving right about the time I started buying ????
Enough posting today..I'm getting like Dread..
Dread......
It's like you were shot out of a cannon this a.m..take a breath brother..It seems this CEO update has energized you, but of more interest is Zendo and NYCInvests cautious dalliance over to the "dark side" of hopeful TOVC longs....I'm too long to be enthused by anything that doesn;t have dollar signs associated with it but on my last occasion to sit with JG- he appeared extremely tired and yet extremely bullish-exhausted but energized if that makes any sense..?? always speaking in hypothetical terms....story is too compelling to not see how it plays out..that is what got me here in the first place..I'll wait.. a bump based on hype will not remotely approach appreciation based on an announced Joint Venture IMHO
Regards to all
Leitrim
Here ya go..
God Bless Google...From Roch Democrat & Chronicle..
"(August 1, 2003) — The flashy new Chevrolet SSR will likely turn a lot of heads once it hits the roads — and a part designed by workers in Chili will help drivers keep the car on the road.
The growing popularity of Zexel Torsen Inc.’s Torsen differential and other products attracted the attention of Toyoda Machine Works Ltd. The Japanese maker of four-wheel-drive systems agreed to buy Zexel on Thursday for more than $100 million.
The Torsen differential helps prevent cars from slipping off the road. The traction control system transfers power to the wheels that need it most.
The part is already in 38 vehicle models, including Hummers, Audis and Fords. Toyota Motor Corp. has mentioned the part in ads for its 4Runner SUV.
“ That one application with Toyota about doubled our business,” said O.P. Gupta, Zexel’s vice president of North American operations.
Toyoda said it sees Zexel’s revenues growing from $91 million to more than $165 million in the near future.
The SSR is not the largest contract for Zexel Torsen in terms of volume, but the company is hoping the SSR will further increase Zexel’s American market share, Gupta said.
“ This is a highly visible vehicle in the U.S. market,’’ he said. “ It’s a great opportunity for us.”
The merger with Toyoda will only create more opportunities, Gupta said. “ We’ll be able to supply customer needs across all platforms,” he said.
The SSR continues the retro-chic trend started by vehicles such as the Chrysler PT Cruiser. Part old-time pickup truck, part convertible, part roadster; the SSR is already winning accolades, and demand for it is high.
“ It’s bragging rights,” said Ted Robertson, who served as chief engineer for Chevy on the SSR. “ They’ll have a leg up on every one else because they’ve been involved from the beginning.”
Zexel Torsen began as a division of Gleason Corp. It later became a joint venture with Japanese Zexel Corp. and was sold to Robert Bosch GmBH in 1994.
Zexel Torsen employs about 200 people worldwide, including the eight people in Chili who do the company’s design work. The local plant will remain open after the merger.
Robertson, who first used the Torsen when he designed the Chevy Camaro and Pontiac Firebird, said the company’s responsiveness impressed him. In 1994, Robertson met Gupta, who asked for his opinion of the Torsen. Robertson told him it was too big, too heavy and too expensive.
Six months later, Robertson got an unsolicited call from Gupta, asking for a chance to show off the redesigned product.
“ It really blew me away that they went away and on their own took up the challenge,” Robertson said
80 mill
give or take from the D&C about 20-24 mos ago maybe longer..but that included bricks and mortar, distribution network etc..i.e not just patents..could be wrong going on memory..
Excellent post
Dread particularly paragraph one..I believe this is what went down and what will be hashed out in Court..What was signed and what was filed and by whom...Everybody has their mouthpieces lined up and may the shareholders be the ultimate winners..Personally I will look forward to the day when there is far less drama and a hell of alot more volume..
Hey Dyna:
What's going on...lemme play Devil's advocate for a second..
you said
<There is not a June 2005 contract. Are you really referring to the April 2005 contract which should have been nothing more than a CXO NY/DE name change from the June 2004 agreement?>..
What if there was more than just the name change for their partnership/corp. that was signed??? Then doesn;t it become a question of who signed what and when and then ultimately WHO FILED IT...".. and Yes I would bet that is why everybody is lawyering up....Again I'm no attorney and I haven;t read everything in entirety..but I would bet this is the heart of the matter..the allegation being the outside guys were trying to sweeten the pot on the fly...that sort of thing...Again consider the source...I try to look at the big picture..On the whole...This has only been going on for a short while and I'm already sick of it....Regards
Leitrim
Thanks for
the reply and your candor....like I've said before with this investment over the years I've felt like a cast member on that show "Lost"-( deserted island analogy for non watchers) so it is helpful to hear of other's story's takes etc..I guess that is for me the best function of the board in general ( as far as opinions I take everyone's -as you should take mine- with healthy skeptisism- I'm a freaking Insurance agent not a hedge fund manager)....Finally with as much whining and moaning that I do ( Thankfully I have company like my pal Dyna in that department !!!! I knew you weren;t going anywhere not until tax season anyhow..!!- I must not know any better as I added to my position last week @ $1.35...I'll either rise like a Phoenix or I'll go down swinging like a typical Mic.... Lord have Mercy...!!! Leitrim
Hey Dread..
While getting up in years- atleast musically I like to think of myself as pretty with it..There is a song the radio is playing called "Wake Me up When September Ends" from Greenday..I recall you using September 2005 as sort of a personal timeframe/barometer if you will with respects to your continued investment in TOVC??Well September has come and gone..I'm curious as to your personal argument either pro and con as to why you are invested in Torvec..Hey I'm not picking on ya cause obviously I'm still here as well..I think more than anything I was naive as to the monumental time involved for purchasing decisions in this industry..All the poltical stuff within the company ( this CXO situation) concerns me as a potentially monumental distraction..I hope I'm dead wrong and Shanghai/PenPu's next visit is soon and bears fruit that can be released to the public ( us Longs)..
Regards
Leitrim
Atl:
LOL ..that was funny..
good points dread..
From CXO's Website..Our next CEO update should be a humdinger huh...With all this bruhaha goin on- I hope somebody remembers to pick up the delegation from Shanghai/Peng Pu at the airport when they showup..Yuk, When everybody starts lawyering up stuff usually just comes to grinding halt..seems market thinks so too
Statement By CXO On the GO of Delaware, LLC
October 5, 2005
ROCHESTER, NY (October 5, 2005) — The lawsuit described in Torvec’s 8-K filing of October 4, 2005, is the latest desperate attempt by Torvec and its majority shareholders, James Gleasman and Keith Gleasman, to renounce contracts that the Gleasmans, along with Torvec’s long-time outside counsel, Dick Sullivan, individually negotiated for Torvec. The initial contracts were prepared by Mr. Sullivan on behalf of Torvec, and each agreement was reviewed and approved by Mr. Sullivan and voluntarily and willingly signed by the Gleasmans. With the knowledge of all of the Torvec directors, Mr. Sullivan filed each of these agreements with the SEC shortly after they were signed, representing them to be Torvec’s valid and binding obligations. For over a year, CXO performed all of its obligations under these contracts, with no objection from Torvec. It is incomprehensible that Torvec’s so-called Executive Committee, which now has full and exclusive control of the corporation, and includes both of the Gleasmans as members, has chosen to ignore the facts and the documented actions of Torvec’s counsel and the Gleasmans.
We are confident that the courts will see this latest Torvec action for what it is — a tortured tactic to avoid legal obligations that were properly authorized and to which the corporation consented. It is unfortunate that Torvec’s current management is allowing the Gleasmans to abuse their positions to further their own personal interests, at the expense of the corporation.
I guess I agree...
My only experience w/ litigation is that it is expensive and time consuming..and can keep you distracted from the business at hand which is making money..maybe it is a positive thing that they are fighting over Percentage cuts and "kickers" for a chunk that does not exist as of now..Any thoughts???.I wanna have a peaceful Christmas and if the New Year is prosperous , well I'm O.K. with that too I suppose...
Dread..
well, in that case here's to hopin you get the opportunity to "spark up a fatty" in 2005 to toast something of consequence with our investment..still waitin for that beer to toast the Irish lineage thing...........Regards
Leitrim
Hey Tor:
I wish to God I had your stamina and optimistic nature..I continue to hang in there by my fingernails- do my homework as best I can, try to just the let things play out as they will- I really wish I knew more about the particulars of the technology and the "need" for the Auto
industry..I know about cost savings- but if it were that alone The Differential would have had offers/buyers by now???..trouble in marital relations the last 12 mos has me hoping for some blue sky soon before I have to join Dyna on the sidelines...It sucks to be sure..but hey I'm an open book...Leitrim
Dread
If this was back in
college days I'd ask ya if you had the "cliff notes"..mostly busy and a little lazy I suppose...
Jd from Roc via Co. Leitrim Eire
Hey Dig;
long time no post..There were some 3rd World snaps in the Powerpoint about half way into it...I think they like the Model T /FTV comparison given targeted markets- but there were some snaps in there..I know this has been discussed before but with all the havoc the Hurricanes have brought/continue to bring- It would be awful powerful to show the /versatility of the FTV in these storm ravaged areas- recovery efforts supply's etc....it appears Rita is going to be a doozy as well..Rochester doesn;t look so bad this time of year does it...???
Hey Doc:
if nothing else I think this - in conjunction with K.G.'s
last update is just the Family's way of saying "look guys we're working our can's off trying to make this happen".( for all of us shareholder's..) Keith's is Family pride..of his Father, Brother, the Gleasman name..Still here- Dyna- don;t be a stranger- Beers, Lunch whatever sounds great some day....Shanghai isn;t exactly Syracuse (location wise) so if something's gonna happen and who knows what stage they are in- probably gonna take awhile..here's to hoping they want what we have and a deal/partnership can be struck...I could use a little wind at my back...
Leitrim
Hey Dyna:
Good morning...Yeh They really stunk...( Bills)..I'm not seeing the buzz with Losman..He can move but hasn't shown me much...This question is totally subjective and now that I'm identifiable like Ole John Hancock means I could get a public spanking but here goes...From your gut..Do you really believe there is exceptional interest in the TOVC technology/portfolio from OEM's or are the Gleasmans and the various configurations of management teams trying to "drum up interest..." As I have stated ad naseum, I'm not an engineer and or a car guy- but as an investor I always wonder Does Detroit, Japan etc REALLY know of the technology..Bottom line is Keith's opinion as stated in the President's letter that this is the "most advanced automotive technology in the world" ( that I own) - and if it is, why am I so concerned about eventually receiving an exceptional return on investment???? NIH syndrome notwithstanding- if he is right than I should be as safe as a kitten...right??? ( grin) All questions comments insults welcomed...
Tor:
I wish I was more proficient at this 'dot connection" stuff, but Can you help me..just back from a few days out, read the filing,is the bottom line of all this..( and I'm not looking for a Legal Opinion) just your interpretation as a laymen investor...)Is the gist of this that TOVC contract with CXO is null and void really based on a technicality or something to that effect..Not trying to pin you down..it's just to me there really was nothing compelling in the filing to me atleast from an investment perspective..Welcome all thoughts, comments and insults...post here or as you know I'm in the book...!!!:)
Leitrim
Perhaps..
J.G is right and the Auto Mftrs really don;t give a rat's rump about milage- that it's all about cost..but I sure hope that the one's that give the consumer what they want ( radically better milage) prosper at the other's expense...In other words..paying 3.21 a gallon wouldn't sting so bad if we were all getting 55 MPG..( and no I don;t drive a Hummer..four cylinder Ford manual before you start name calling...!!!)
Leitrim
Bummer..
Well we still have Kennedy Assasination conspiracy to debate..That Zapruder film won't conclusive..thanks for answering my ???..See you at the hot dog vendor..Dogs are on me..
Leitrim
Dyna stated:
<After all this ranting and raving on the board, I am shocked no ihubbers will unveil their masks. This includes cheerleaders and the naysayers. To me, that means everyone's credibility here is "happy horsecrap".>
Joe Donohue 800-242-4433 Ext 4464..(it's even a free call)
don't expect stellar commentary I'm a small time investor
hoping to make a return on investment..
<
Dread..
Thanks..I'll be downtown regretfully for a 2:30 appt..Will you be posting a summary of the Q&A sometime shortly after??.Thanks Again..I'm sorry I can't make it..Leitrim
Yes Thanks
Dread..I hope the time fits with my week and I'm able to walk over and sit in- If that's o.k with you..Thanks for the offer and for your interesting opportunity it presents the "little guy" investor...
Regards
Leitrim
Hey Dread:
I'll bite...I guess my first question would deal with valuations..J.G said once at an Annual this Technology had the potential to make and/or save billions for the Industry players but that he was realistic and didn't "expect anybody to offer that type of money- all that they wanted and expected was 'fair' compensation...."( paraphrasing on memory) I would ask him what do they FEEL TOVC is REALLY worth- the whole smash and by part?? and the second part as a trailer..Is the primary reason that we are here @ $2 a share a discrepancy in the opinion of the marketplace on this valuation..or is it the case of TOVC hanging tough -v- the 'Cats and Rats" that want the paradigm shifting mousetraps on the cheap..( again paraphrasing JG- speak..???) maybe next time I see JG Keith and Andy getting a hot dog at the office park vendor- I'll get the stones to ask these very frank questions..Ain't chicken just always believed I'd get..."read the filings"..Probably would have to be the answer...Leitrim..
Dread:
Thanks for the posting or to whomever found it..Jg is a trip to be sure..I ultimately dig really cocky/confident people- much more interesting than silence..ultimately I have to believe that this public spat does in fact have to hurt CXO's business plans alot more than TOVC's..O.K., P.T Barnum- go find us a deal baby..." Step right up folks and witness the greatest pump on Earth...."
Dread:
My point was I didn;t mind have some other management involvement outside of the G's who own 60% of the company..perhaps Harrington and co. is fine and will help get the assets monetized..beats me- I don;t care about CXO deal either- I know none of them- and I was always a little puzzled why they selected a management firm with absolutely no experience in the automotive industry.. Hey, I'm in sales- and successful deals often require a little collaboration- I hope JG can be totally charming with the potential buyers from the East and a deal can be struck..I would love to See FTV's replace the Hummer..why not..
Small snippet in D&C
calls Cady Jr. Torvec's "Director of Security" whatever that means..Torvecian is right- Who knows what the heck is going on..With this particular drama, with this investment, with the auto Industry in general...One thing is certain- they aren;t going to work together again ( TOVC and CXO) so somebody isn't going to " be focused like a laser" on increasing shareholder value....All we can hope for is the resolution is "weeks not months"...honestly anybody whoever attended an Annual Meeting and heard J.G. can;t be surprised by this..He's P.T Barnum in a Sarbane Oxley kinda world..all I can hope is that he in fact does have all of our interests aligned with his Family's - and I'll grant you- that is a bit of a leap for me right about now...Leitrim