is... a buy and hold investor of dividend US and Canadian stocks
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
well I appreciate the info. I think it confirms what i was saying. This guy is just doing his job and his answers are rather bland. Raw's post was flag-waving. And if this is the first pyrolysis unit in his area... so what? There are not a lot of pyrolysis units around.
It simply confirms what I was saying.
We should stop bothering them with all of these stupid questions IMO.
that is obvious... whether or not the plastic is FREE is of no CONSEQUENCE either.... doesn't really matter. THey need to make $800k/year on that plant to get an acceptable ROI, and there is Labour and Materials on top of that.
oooohhhhhhh....
You guys are misunderstanding me. I fully expect them to get a permit. I would expect any manufacturer to be able to do that... I donèt think that geting a permit is the challenge facing them. Making money is the challenge facing them.
with no permit would he even have an AGM? Turnout may be armed and dangerous!!!!
If they can't get a permit they can't perform a basic function, let alone the challenges of making money.
Any company that produces anything. I am not talking about a P2O production permit. The product does not really matter. Anybody that builds a plant that may impact the environment needs one of these permits. All the PM has to do is find out the timeline and get his/ her paperwork in on time...
I find it a bit weird that JB himself put this on a slide and now has everbody waiting with baited breath for this permit. It should not be a big deal. Of far more importance is that he has his process figured out, so that he does not have more instrumentation than he needs, that he has his safety and operational stuff figured out, and that he has the whole thing packaged with up-to-date drawings that can be assembled by a general Electrical/ Mechanical Contractor anywhere in the United States... before he runs out of money.
well then allow us to verify it. You have verified nothing. What are you saying, you want us to callt he DEC to verify this information that your "friend" is saying?
Can you provide a contact person at the DEC that will give me an answer? I will break my own rules about calling companies with stupid questions and I will call them myself tomorrow. Ask about the backflips and what you just posted.
Are we on?
what about:
- when will they get to production from the initial facility? (and likely not be profitable for some time)
- when will they become profitable in the initial location?
- when will they be in a position to roll out JVs/ other locations..?
none of the above has anything to do with getting a Permit to operate... ROFL.
how do we know that the calls to the supplier or MIT actually happened? As for the calls to the DEC, I would assume that they were flooded with UNWELCOME calls about JBII from all types of posters. JBI is one of many companies they are trying to help, but they are just bureaucrats trying to do their jobs. The phone calls were (likely) interfering with their work, as well as putting them in a position to give out information which may be confidential. Personally, I would never consider calling them.
The only information needs to come from JBI. And not about permits. As I have posted repeatedly, getting a production permit should be a minor issue. More like full-production date. Getting a permit seems to have captured alot of attention for someting that is totally predictable and a minor but important part of the project plan to get to production.
you think that this information or post coming from you means that it is "easily verifiable"? Hardly. An investor had better have better reasons than reading something like that on the internet.
COuld you perhaps post your friends name address and phone number for easy verification? (I am speaking in gest, of course you can't, as none of us can/ should).
actually the misrepresentation case could conceivably be mllions of dollars. It is quite vague and hence can be a big number. The plaintiff can claim several million dollars in lost opportunity (he was an investment banker) as well as the promises made about the stock.
IMO very hard to prove. It is just hearsay. If something was written, that would be another story.
Plaintiff has to mitigate. That is to say, he has to look for another job. If he gets another investment banking job with similar opportunity, the misrepresentation goes out the window (except for maybe the stock capital gains).
IMO the negligent misrepresentation is a big hammer, a threat, that will ultimately be used as a bargaining chip and dropped in order to avoid court and obtain a reasonable settlement.
So Brig, I wondered, is JB into cryptology and do you think that is a good avenue for jBI to pursue given JB's genius? After all, the Great One has spent all of his life working with data, so cryptology must be right up his alley. Saying one thing and meaning something else, needing data or notes from another place to understand and interpret a written statement.
Seeing as you have done all of the amazing DD on this company I thought you would be the one to ask. However, I know your time is valuable. I am sure you have many interesting pursuits, so I do not want to take a great deal of your time. But if you can shed light on this most interesting topic I would most appreciate it.
Thanks!~~~
the plaintiff was given a 60-day "Termination Without Cause" Letter. So, the defendant has stated that it was without cause and cannot question the plaintiff's performance. As soon as that argumrent started in a courtroom, the Plaintiff's lawyer would object immediately and would be totally in the right to do so.
Additionally, the plaintiff states that no warnings, etc were given...
The reasons for Termination do not matter. It has been acknowledged that there are none.
That, in essence, is the Breach of Contract argument. We would have to actually be able to see the employment contract to know more, but the law assumes that people act in good faith. In other words is the plaintiff was performing his duties to the best of his ability, the contract is breached. Employment contract is likely boilerplate...
if you are talking about MY last statement, that was before I read the Statement of Claim. This is not about a few months of wages... that would be Unjust Dismissal.
JJ is not as wrong as you are saying. I just read the case. In fact, if the evidence is there, he is 100% correct. I have been in several employment situations involving Negligent Misrepresentation and Unjust Dismissal. I was involved in one courtroom case. There was no jury. I put on the stand a former employer that had misrepresented certain facts during a hiring interview. The person in question melted on the stand. A judge is very good at telling if a person is lying, and most people, when they are faced with a Courtroom situation, will not lie. Not even the best con artists. I simply put the person on the stand, asked some questions, and revealed him to be a liar. I was representing myself.
This lawsuit could be indeed worth millions. And it is not just against JBI, it is PERSONAL against JB. That is really powerful. Most CEOs run for the hills when it becomes personal. That is crossing a legal line that has only been crossed in the last decade (personal liability by a CEO). He is really going after him.
If we were talking about a few months salary, that would be Unjust Dismissal (asking for more Severance). This case is not that. It is not even mentioned.
Count 1 - Breach of Contract. Implies that the 2-year contract has been breached, essentially that even if there was a 60-day out clause, it was not exercised for a good reason with fiduciary responsibility and as such the contract (for the plaintiff to be employed as a VP of M&A) was not honored. The wording of the out clause would not matter. According to the plaintiff, he got given different assignment and a Termination Letter. The new assignment was nowhere near what was promised. It could be argued by the defendant that in carrying on, the plaintiff basically accepted the new assignment. Basic alleged facts are that he got shafted and given a relatively meaningless role, then abruptly fired. So, if the contract was breached he would be owed the full 120k/ year for 2 years... plus any outstanding stock options or stocks he received as part of his employment package. Based on the 100000 shares. Based on current stock prices... which is not much. So that is 240k.
Count 2 - Equitable Accounting. Legal term for he did not get paid... straightforward. All he has to do is to produce accurate records of his compensation.. and likewise the defendant JBI. Good for expenses, severance, stock payments.
Count 3 - Negligent Misrepresentation. This is a catch-all term to basically say "JB lied to me". This is where the big $$ are. Boils down to who said what to whom. Basically he was told that the stock would make him a millionnaire, so he wants a few million. Besides that, lost opportunity. The defendant had a position at an investment firm where he could have made millions. He gave up that position based on representations made by John Bordynuk. A few more million. As is stated in the claim, misprepresentation means not only that the defendant lied (withholding information that he knew), but that he OUGHT to have known, as the CEO of a publicly-traded company. That is the current legal precedent. That is a powerful statement. Key evidence here is anything written. In the absence of that, it is extremely unpredictable and based on courtroom performance and credibility.
So, to summarize, the defendent wants all moneys owed to him in the form of expenses, proper severance pay, etc (Count 2). The defendant wants his full contract term paid because the contract was breached (Count 2), which is 240k, plus anything owing to him on the stock at current market prices. Lastly, the defendant claims Negligent Misrepresentation. That could be millions.
IMO COunt 2 is easy to prove and JBI would at least offer this as a settlement. Count 1 is more difficult, but JBI would likely offer a portion of that. Count 3 could break jBII and tie them up for years. I would doubt that JBI would offer a settlement unless the defendant drove them to the courthouse steps. Total grandstanding. Potentially, by the time it is finished there will be no money left. BUT, JB is being held personally liable. So, this could conceivably bankrupt him. This is personal. I think at this point in time, JBI does not even have enough money to pay this settlement.
I have no idea whether or not the defendant has a case. It is reliant on what was said behind closed doors and who testifies to what and how well they do. Can JB pull his sales stuff in a courtroom? Was there any misrepresentation?
Anyway, this is not a few months salary... anything but. This is a missile aimed at JBI. The defendant could either refuse to settle to prove a point, or will settle for something that will hurt JBI financially. Lastly, the defendant appears out to go after JB the man. ouch!! Key dynamics are; how far is the defendant prepared to go? and is JB willing to go through a jury trial? I would guess that the defendant may settle for something in the low 6 figures.. Count 2 and partial/ all of Count 1.
Quite correct. This is a serious suit. I suspect that the plaintiff must believe he has solid grounds... or else he could be liable for cost, and if he quits mid-stream he is liable for costs incurred to-date.
I think not. The fact that he asked for a jury has to do with the size of the settlement he is seeking ==> jury trial. My only experience has been with amounts less than 25k, which is the limit for Small Claims Court in Canada.
why would you make such a serious accusation like that based on hearsay? JB is "impossible to get along with"? Why don't you name your sources? To post like that is useless to anybody.
your post does not make sense. Yes a lawsuit will usually state a maximum amount that the plaintiff would never likely get, but if he has no money he would not be able to sue and could not be bothered. He would have other stuff on his mind.
Likely, he has a huge chip on his shoulder over being treated badly. Someone at thti slevel would nboit sue unless he felt for sure he could win, as his reputation is on the line as well. He must have a major chip on his shoulder and feels he has been treated very badly.
Suing a company is a serious issue that he has to follow through on. There is no backing out (if he backs out he has to pay their costs as well). He would not do it without good reason.
In the end he will likelyt get a few months wages... but it is the principle that counts for him IMO.
no mike... most of what you are saying is not true. I worked with this on a daily basis for a year in a true Engineering and Construction ROI-driven environment. That is to say, the projects were being performed for the company to improve operations as Capital Projects (with a Capital Asset being recorded on the books at the end and to be depreciated). I would not post this stuff without knowing it to be true. Cost was the true cost of the people working on the job and I was the Cost Controller. Capital Value was 12.x M and 5.5M. Expected ROI 20-30%, Cost Controlled to 5% of final (very accurate) estimate.
The other environment I worked in doing the same thing is an Engineering Consulting firm. In that environment we did do work for other companies and billed everybody out. Consulting firms are very focused on billing rates, so the analysis was anything but simple. I have a book at home from that organization which details all of the cost factors for an individual, as well as the markup. If you like, just publicly message me, I will post the breakdown Tuesday evening exactly. I am only going from memory.
As an aside, where I am now... Overhead is charged at 100% for most people. That is to say... if the raw cost is n the $60-$80/hour range, true cost is $140 - $160/hour. We usually just double it for Cost Analysis purposes... I do this daily. Why would I misrepresent that? When we go to Finance to get funding, those are the numbers we use.
What I am stating about a 40-50k person costing 60-70/hour is not ridiculous. You are an Engineer? You worked as an Engineer? Go talk to one of your former employers or current. Talk to a financial person. Find out how much you cost.
In your analysis you are ignoring Overhead. Yes benefits and vacation and the like are called "fringe" (and you are more or less correct). Overhead is huge.
Anybody operating a plant of any kind is responsible for Safety. That would command at least 50K.
Contract work for another company? Take the above estimates and double it. In other words... let's say you are at an engineering firm. You get a contract. internal costs result in a person costing $100/hour. You bill $200/hour.
Why do you think i was posting about the unlikelihood of URS working for JBII in a meaningful way? The figure I have guessed for URS guys is $150/hour. That would be the cost to JBII.
Anyway, if you doubt me, notwithstanding confidentiality concerns... i will post representative numbers this week if you question me. Exactly how a consulting firm structures its costs and how they bill their time to make money.
The place worked for in the internal Project Management group simplified everything to be $100/hour. I can't justify it if it is a simplification, but I can detail how the more complicated consulting model works.
I have already posted about what it would take to roll out p2o. That list of contractors is quite accurate, but each installation or group of installations (one contractor could conceivably handle several) would require a competitive bidding process. That in itself is going to take time, and preparation is going to take time. Your quote about "JBI has already done the engineering work" is likely not true. They have it working and have the necessary paperwork, soon a production permit. But they clearly have been experimenting with the configuration, which means they have away to go. They need to finalize it and document it, then prepare a package that a contractor can use to properly estimate the job and bid on it. Finally, to actually construct it. Accurate drawings. That is the "engineering work" that needs to be done, not tweaking with instrumentation trying to pass a stack test or muck with the process.
I would guess; a couple of months after receiving the permit to be ready to expand. so it would be January before a bidding process can start for other installations. 2-3 months before other P2O sites up and running.
My guess would be that there would have to be separate negotiations regionally in order to placate regional union interests if union people were involved.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=53102810&txt2find=drawings
I am not an Account (-ant) either, but based on the amount of flak I have received for posting information that was a big part of my working life for one year, I don't think that people reading my posts can tell the difference between an apple and an orange. It is pretty basic stuff, why question it?
By a professional person I mean somebody that earns maybe anywhere from 60-100k salary or $60-$80/ hour contract in an engineering environment. I could say that some kind of education is required, but that would not hold water, because some tradesmen earn an awful lot.
And whether it is contract or not makes no difference. When I did Cost Control on those projects, some people were contractors and some salaried, sometimes doing the same job. It all depends on negotiating power. Contract is generally more expensive to the company. I am contract right now and the tax advantages are such that I intend to stay that way as long as possible.
I knew everybody's rates because I was the one costing every line item and every person that put time to the job.
Even someone making $40-$50k would "cost" $60-$70/hour to the employer. The only person that would know is a Cost Accountant.
Actually when I left that company they were upping the average cost to $120 I think it was, because $100 was no longer realistic.
Using an average figure like $100/hour is one approach, and it is not the usual one. Since consulting firms rely on variable rates to make money, they would play with rates charged to jobs to keep them all profitable, and play with who was able to charge to the job as well. It was quite a game. $100/hour was a cost figure adopted to keep a level playing field and a good average value, and mainly to simplify things for Cost Control purposes.
In the case of JBII, I never said that that would be their average rate. I believe that their operation is quite a bit simpler that what I was involved in. But, the point is that the costs have been understated previous to my posting.
As I posted previously, we are looking at a capital investment of between 1-2M, requiring about 800k in profits yearly to generate an ROI of 20-30%. Operating costs, including labor, must support that. Beyond that, there is not enough information to really do an accurate analysis. And, I am not a Cost Accountant... lol..
again, the $100/hour is the cost to the company for a professional person, not what that person is paid. Someone like that might bill $60 or $70/hour. i bill that kind of rate.
I worked at a company where I entered that number in a spreadsheet to track costs on capital projects. it was expected there that projects get done for within 5% of estimated cost. Not too many places I have worked at were that stringent on their controls... so that is a reliable number. If JBII comes out with financials that have that cost buried somewhere else, that is just to mislead. Look for "one-time charges", etc...
BIG: (Beer Is Good). doesn't the handling cost for regular waste make it infeasible for JBII to simply get the waste stream that regularly would go to a landfill.?
Just an observation. I may not be up on this stock. Not been here for awhile...
I would think they would have to have (and pay for) some shredded or processed plastic for this kind of operation...
JJ: has it ever occurred to you that whether or not the plastic is free is not the point? I don;'t know why you are going on about it. It appears as if you are simply looking for some conspiracy. There is none. And especially with a poster like EP, who is nothing but enthusiastic.
The cost of plastic is inconsequential anyway. I posted last week that the cost for plastic was given in the CNBC video. They paid .50 for a quantity that I believe worked out to be 2% of the cost (assuming that the cost of a barrel of oil is $10, which is dubious). I wish I could play it back to get the details right. I believe that they pay .50 for a quantity of shredded plastic equal to 20000 bottles. Can't be certain.
The issue is overall process cost. This is an industrial process manufacturing operation. I don't know the cost structure and I believe that $10/barrel is unrealistic... but the cost of plastic is a tangential meaningless issue.
Don't you agree?
If you do, why don't you dedicate your considerable intellect to making a more relevant argument as to the unprofitability of the p2o process. It is not easy because there is not much information to work with or standards or norms in this new field.
Who ever said that "JBII can't make money without free plastic and everybody knows that"? If it came from this board, I would not assume that to be a fact. Feedstock is a small percentage of overall cost. No one here may realize that until financials are published.
Play back the video and get back to us.
well you will likely hear something again when they finally get that permit, but it is not the end of the road and does not guarantee success. The stock price will likely take another little bump again. I think with no firm upward direction. Another chance to sell off for those coming off of restriction.
Then you will be waiting for financials. Same expectation/ anticipation. Expecting to show good numbers...
always waiting. Thoughts?
they were the latest pick I received from Hotstocked. I checked the price at about 9:40 and with over 1M shares traded it had climbed up a whopping .01, annihilating the .14 wall.
what makes you think that just because they make some fuel sales that they will make money..?
good post, but the "story" is over. Lightning, and story stocks, do not strike twice..
you guys are imagining things. There is no "seller", just a market.
Has anybody played that CNBC video back and got the details on how much the shredded plastic costs?
No, it actually got pumped by a stock day trading newsletter. I signed up for this service some time back, and PWEB happened to be their latest pump. Today I received this email:
PWEB Went Up 26%, New Pick Tomorrow?
From: Hotstocked.com (Hotstocked.com@mail.vresp.com)
Sent: October 4, 2010 2:22:57 PM
You're subscribed to this mailing list. Unsubscribe
Good Morning!
Friday's Lightning Pick went up 26% for the day, on the heaviest volume the stock traded all year. We hope that you all profitted from the recommendation. That makes 9 straight back to back winners in a row from our newsletter. We will be sending out a new lightning pick alert tomorrow morning on another software company selling for around the same price range.
Only, This time it won't be just us making the alert. Tomorrow, we are teaming up with a few other large newsletters. We will all be notifying all of our subscribers that the stock looks excellent for a trade.
We need to keep the idea a secret for now. We will send you an e-mail with the exact details right when the market opens, if for some reason you don't receive the e-mail by 9:30, we will also post the stock pick on this page: http://www.hotstocked.com/lightning-picks/.
See you when the market opens tomorrow.
Classic Pump and pump email-driven scheme... so the PR cme out Thursday, pump came out Friday. Classic. My own impression of the PR was that it was meaningless, so this explains the action on the stock.
And today the CFO resigned. I wonder why?
so I suspect that it will trail off now.. I checked out their last few picks and they had no staying power...
I am out.
Cost of Feedstock
I am surprised that no one has seized the opportunity to discuss the cost of feedstock. In that CNBC video last week they revealed the cost of the shredded plastic. This the pure plastic input that is I believe most desireable for JBII.
I did not get the whole thing and don't have the technology with me to replay the video. I know the price quoted was 0.50. I believe it was for the equivalent of 20000 shredded bottles. I think a weight figure was given, but that is what I missed. Perhaps someone less technologically challenged could go back and get the figure.
Anyway, going to the web, 1 20oz bottle weighs 23.83 grams...
We know that the processor can process 20T/day of plastic and produces 110 barrels of whatever.
1 lb = 454 grams.
1 T = 2000 lb.
1 lb = 454/24 = 18 bottles.
20000 bottles = 20000/18 = 1111 lb
So, 1 T costs about a buck. (2 times .50)
20T costs 20 bucks, therefore feedstock cost = 20 bucks/day.
According to JB, is cost = $10/barrel and output = 110 barrels/day.
Total cost = $1100 then.
Feedstock cost = 2% then. I guessed anywhere from 5% to 10%. And if total cost is higher as I think it is, the % is lower still.
Point being, all this talk about cost of feedstock is tangential. It is not a cost issue. The only problem may be access to enough feedstock (10T is alot), but not cost.
If anyone can validate my numbers that would be great. Just puttin' it out there.. who can read the video back? It is the guy that makes shirts from plastic..
well if you think that is funny, get a load of this.
At our last Safety Meeting (last Thursday) some asked if there were any safety issues that anyone wanted to discuss. This is usually done at the end of the meeting. Somebody piped up with the following little anecdote: apparently the previous day a partridge had flown through a window in a building. Luckily, as the person explained, everybody was wearing their hardhats. If they hadn't, they explained, they would have had shards of glass embedded in their heads.
Now this comment was delivered in total seriousness and nobody laughed. This is how serious people are in this business about this kind of thing. Yes, no one wears a hardhat round the house because of this, but I am now much more careful in my day-to-day life, and when I walk about I see some crazy unsafe stuff..
So, all i was saying is that that video may interest retail investors, but it does not deliver with serious investors with the big bucks if the intent was to prove production capability...
First you have some guy pouring boiling hot liquid into a glass container in his barely-clad hands, next thing you know, you have an Alfred Hithcock movie...
when pigs fly...
or Feb 29th of the next leap year, whichever comes first.
those were just common work gloves, probably cotton. the liquid was boiling... he was wincing... looked very uncomfortable, and had probably not ever done that before..
I am not putting a negative "spin". That video would not be taken seriously in an industrial setting. It would generate considerable laughter. Now getting investors interested, maybe....
I am not kidding. Maybe you have not worked in industry.
Here is how I would have approached it; if you are going to make a Marketing video, then do that. Don't even bother with going near the equipment. What we have seen so far (the video from the AGM) is exactly that.
I you are going to demonstrate the machine working, that is different. If you are going to show unsafe practises, it will take away from the professionalism and impact that the video makes.,
This is somewhere between the two. Does not make a high impact on me. More of a Marketing video than anything else.
There are lots of videos around that depict unsafe practises that are regularly used in industry. Google "ladder safety" sometimes and you will see tons of them..
What person would pour boiling hot liquid into a glass container in their own hands? What if he had to drop it because it was too hot?
Think about it. He was wincing as he did it..
i can add to this. It was a good video from a Marketing standpoint. The pelletized plastic looked exactly the same as the pelletized plastic I saw in the video last night, except there was some other stuff in it. Probably they did not clean out the dumper first..
But, I noticed that the output was indeed extremely hot, as in steaming. And JB looked very uncomfortable. He was not wearing much on his hands, and I believe that he was feeling the heat. I would have in his circumstances. I would bet he had not done that before.
He was not wearing enough PPE (Personal Protective Equipment). i commend him for wearing safety glasses, but it is really a partial solution. What about splashes? Where was his head protection?
In the first place, I would guess that what he did would not be allowed. He took a chance there. What if he dropped the container? On his feet? and it broke... after all, it is a glass container, which does not react well to changes in temperature... not bright.
So although it looks great to the uninitiated, it would not fare well with an audience from industry. More likely would be an example of what NOT to do.
You may think I am being anal here, but the reason for industrial safety is to eliminate all dangers and accidents, that is, things that may occur only 1% of the time. Eventually that will catch up wwith you. That is why now I don't jaywalk as often as I used to, nor do I talk on my cellphone in the car. It is just a mindset you adopt.