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Now you're on to something...
Some European exchanges allow naked shorting....do you recall the flurry of posts from a few years ago on Raging Bull on the topic of Torvec appearing as a listed stock on one of the European exchanges, along with a feww hundred others OTC stocks....the companies didnt even know they were listed...
So not only can the stock be shorted from foreign sources, you can fill out the paperwork to become a market maker and be operating by next week in the US...market makers can short the stock...want to here more...
You got me on that one.....
what do we think is responsible for the tracks...?? My guess is that since we are talking about it on a Torvec message board, that it has something to do with a TOVC product perhaps..?
We are not in agreement on all of your points..
I personally feel that the shorts have played a MAJOR role in the price decline of Torvec...The fact that a deal has not been done helped the shorts in lowering the price...if one is confident that a monetizing event will occur creating demand for the stock, then a large short position that needs to be unwound will help raise the share price....possibly significantly...that we agree on..
In my opinion, a party or parties to the short position strategy on Torvec must have felt comfortable that they knew where they were going to be able to get their hands on shares .....alot of shares.. which gave them comfort in taking a sizeable position on the short side....my question is, if I'm correct, where are they going to get there hands on ALOT of Torvec shares without driving the price through the roof, creating the aforementioned margin call of margin calls...
while time has worked in favor of a short strategy, time is now working against that position...I think the company will produce a deal that will change the company forever and will reward shareholders and punish whatever shortholders exist..
That does produce happy thoughts......
People are going to believe whatever they want..
But anyone that thinks that a market maker cannot short Torvec
or any other bulletin board stock is naive or trying to mislead. I agree, an individual cannot call Schwab or Merrill Lynch and short it...but if they have a connection to a market maker, they can do it all day long....
What I beleive is that at some point in the not too distant future, significant pain will be inflicted on the short holders of Torvec....The thought of that makes me happy..and there will be a margin call, but not like what you would normally think of a as a margin call on your individual account.....I agree with what Trucker was saying ..that shorts serve a purpose in the market place by providing balance....my opinion is that they over-indulged themselves on Torvec and are stuck due to lack of share inventory...any upward pressure yields quick run-ups and there is a support level here that they just can't seem to run through...
Personally, I dont care if someone believes that there is no Torvec short position...that is different than someone claiming that Torvec cannot be shorted...that would be just plain wrong...
Happy thoughts sherrif....
Hi Reporter...
"My money (figuratively speaking of course) is on the people that Torvec pissed off." The SEC has been following that money...my guess is they will find it for you and let you know where it went...
Nice immature, derogatory comment using "Greasman" in your opening...that mixes well with your accusation that the comapny is violating SEC regs by manipulating the stock price...
Just how short are you guys....speaking of the guys, please say hello to them for all of us here at ihub...
Is it the Flint Michigan Office of Economic Development...?
For GM's sake....
They should hope they get Kirkorian instead of Kivorkian....
Kivorkian is the suicide doctor...
I can tell you why the stock many times goes down on news showing progress.....
no one wants to hear it though....
the short answer is yes I did...
oops...
hello gap...
just curious..who did you feel dread was disrepspecting by having his alfred e. newman signature on that post..?
Did someone say margin....?
Hi dyna...
I know that's not what you were asking....I don't know the answer to that, I was merely highlighting the stuff that was easier to translate and more mainstream, deal-oriented in nature...that's all..didn't mean anything by it...
I know what this means...
"Discussions with Peng Pu with respect to our FTV have accelerated and we will be receiving a delegation from Peng Pu this month;
Additional companies, including a number from China, are in discussions with us concerning our transmission, differential, CV Joint and Ice technology and several of these companies will be visiting us in the next few weeks."
"We are showcasing our Iso-Torque differential to an OEM ( an automobile manufacturer ). The exact dates are being finalized as to when its facilities will be available over the next few weeks."
Encouraging time lines on these topics....
Very interesting comments by the judge...
I like the part where it says that "Justice Polito stated that the company's response was restrained and made only in furtherance of its responsiblities to shareholders." That tells me what he really thought of the case...
To all...have a nice weekend
Here's a thought...
The stock is up 55cents in two days on ONLY 85,000 shares..thats 40%....what do you think will happen if a deal is announced and the supply totally dries up and someone HAS to find 2 to 4 million shares due to a margin call.....?
I love this country...
I agree....
I have way more of an investment vs. trade personality...I'm sure if I sold for a tax maneuver, a deal would be announced on the 27th day after I sold..!! When the gun goes off on this thing it's explosive sometimes..the timimg and positioning of the company right now seem to be in a sweet spot....someone seems to have taken an interest in TOVC..who and why....alot of good stuff seems to be going on...
hi dread
activity has picked up since late yesterday...about 15,000 in the last 15 minutes yesterday and 40,000 here today, mostly up...up 50 cents since yesterday morning...
Good morning....
Thanks sheriff....I don't think you are one of the CXO people...we just didnt agree on the relevance of certain information...among other things, this forum is set up to banter around exactly that kind of stuff...
dread...I was laughing at that article you posted on the hybrids...there was some funny stuff in there..nice find...
LOL...
Thats exactly what I told the attorney friend of mine....actually, to set the stage for the discussion I told him I'm a failure..I'm a loser...I don't get it...I make mistakes...since he knows me, he agreed enthusiastically....
Since the proxy came out, my mind has been swirling about the workings of contracts and stock and warrants and what are the SEC rules that relate to that whole topic.....I figured there is way more I don't know and should try to get some answers to put me more at ease...
I told this guy that under no circumstances can he use legaleze...like caveat emptor or dominus vobiscum or e plurabus unem or any of that crap...keep it simple..
One of the things I found out is that there is an SEC rule
(dont remember the number)that would potenially allow for a company like CXO be paid warrants for services that could be exercised and the stock sold with some type of 6 month stipualtion the trades would be exempt under this rule under one very important condition..that condition is if it were a contract that was APPROVED by the board of directors of the company..ie..Torvec.. I was shocked that this was possible...I am not saying anybody sold anything..I am relaying to this forum that I found out it is possible for stock aquired via a conract like that could be potentially sold ....again the critical element is that it is the result of a contract approved by the BOD....
There-in lies the heart of the whole CXO Torvec lawsuit over the contract...none of us knows how a judge will decide that....
based on that info, I shift to a new set of questions..my opinion shifts toward the hypothetical possibilities that if all of those warrants were exercised and the converted shares were sold under the SEC rule that saysit ok with a BOD approved agreement, then those sharesget sold with an understanding that it's OK to do so....
So then I fast forward to the recent lawsuit which is centered on the conract....a judge could say it's valid.....
I ask my friend what happens if the judge voids the contract. He said that the consultants may have to give the money back to the company.
I told him about the proxy indicating the company has asked the SEC to investigate the trading practices of the indivduals in connection with their failure to file. He said that the high risk nature of the consultant here is that if the judge rules in favor of the company and voids the contract, the protection of the SEC rule that may have allowed for the shares to be traded under no longer exists..that would be bad....he indicated that the discovery and deposition aspects of the situation would most likely be very long and brutal ....(he was smiling.lawyers like long and brutal...cha-ching..!!)...he also noted that the byproduct of a long drwan out deposition and discovery on the contract lawsuit would produce a "mountain of documents" that the SEC could use against the consultant....(he was smiling again...dreaming of more happy lawyers I assume)..I repeat, I'm not saying anyone sold anything.....
I just couldnot stop wondering why with all that on the line, the CXO guys still pursue the whole legal battle....??
I know most of you are sick of me talking about this stuff, but as an investor, this is agonizingly important. I am still
very high on the technology, frustrated that it takes years to get commercialized, anxious for the legal bull shxt to end...personally I hope CXO and Torvec figure out a way to settle and move on...I wish no ill will on anyone and have never meant to offend anyone, but I will always have an opinion...it's America ....even if no one agrees with it..
Have a nice evening everyone...
Thank you Zendo...I know there are people paying attention..
The proxy is in the filings and most likely on it's way to shareholders in the mail. If you click on TOVC quote link above this posting there is a filings link at the top of the quote page....the most recent filing is the proxy...
I recently had a lunch with an attorney friend of mine that is familiar with securities law....it was an interesting conversation and I learned alot from it...I have to run to lunch but I will share a summary of what I learned later today...it all ties in with why investors should care about all of this stuff...it also brought up more question for me..
I'm still here.....
Been very busy making up new conspiracy theories...lots of pie graphs, flow charts and power point involved...it's exhausting...
For the record....
I'm a failure..
I'm a loser...
I don't get it...
I make mistakes...
Thank you for pointing all of that out...
You seem to have an acute interest in all of this for a "small" investor.....your previous post mentioned the CXO/Gleasman lawsuit..you're right about that, I don't care about that one....you forgot to mention the Torvec suit against CXO to null and void the whole contract..now that one I care about...gee, that might have some bearing on shareholder value if the contract is voided and CXO has to give back the stock and warrants...
Don't get me started on the 500,000 plus warrants that have been exercised.......oops..there I go again....
My sniffer is on high alert....
I care sherrif.....
I seek answers on events that have affected shareholder value and continue to do so...some of these events may be THE most relevant events that have affected the value of TOVC shares ever, and attempting to sweep them under the rug with extra effort tells me something about you.......for the record, I think that the deal that the G's and the BOD struck with CXO was a very bad deal as a shareholder....the return on the investment was a negative number...if they, CXO, had done a deal or sold the company or attracted a major investor or partner that was reflected in the share price moving into the teens, I would feel that it was a good deal...that didn't happen and for that I am critical of the company...I schill for no one....
So, among other Torvec topics, such as the technology, potential deals and monetization, the filings and the future, the past just seems to keep rearing it's head...that means it's the present, so I will talk about it... I will keep this topic alive because of it's relevance to my investment in Torvec...the more irrelevant you think it is, the more I think it is relevant, and my sniffer tells me I'm striking a nerve....
So where are the filings......
if they filed them directly with the SEC, where are they........if that's the case, they would show up in the SEC filings...
I guess it's in the hands of the SEC now....they will probably put their guy in charge of "meaningless dribble" on it....
I understand what you are saying...
so where are the filings....the filings arenot in the filings?? Also, working at a public company and being an officer/director of a public company are vastly different...I may be wrong, but I don't recall that the CXO guys have that level of experience ....
I didn't say anyone knowingly broke any SEC rules....all I did was post significant, material information from the proxy....unlike you, I think this is extremely noteworthy information, which shouldn't be dismissed and swept under the rug...
you left off this part sherrif...
"all such persons complied with all applicable filing requirements, EXCEPT as follows: Richard Ottalagana, Philip Fain and Read McNamara did not file Form 4s reflecting a change of beneficial ownership and Mary Ho did not file Form 3 upon her election as a director. Ms. Ho was not re-nominated as a director for the 2006 fiscal year and Messrs. Ottalagana, Fain and McNamara were removed by the Board as officers and Messrs. Fain and McNamara resigned as directors. The company has requested the Securities and Exchange Commission to investigate the trading practices of these individuals in connection with their failure to file."
Greetings turkey sandwich lovers...
Hope everyone had a nice holiday..
Just read through the proxy....this jumped out at me...
"Section 16(a) Beneficial Ownership Reporting Compliance
Section 16(a) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 requires our directors, our executive officers and persons who own more than 10% of our common stock to file initial reports of ownership (Form 3) and reports of changes in ownership of our common stock (Forms 4 and 5) with the Securities and Exchange Commission. These persons are required by SEC regulations to furnish us with copies of all section 16(a) reports they file. To our knowledge, based solely on our review of the copies of such reports received or written representations from such persons that no reports were required, we believe that during our fiscal year ended December 31, 2004 and for the period January 1, 2005 through December 1, 2005, all such persons complied with all applicable filing requirements, except as follows: Richard Ottalagana, Philip Fain and Read McNamara did not file Form 4s reflecting a change of beneficial ownership and Mary Ho did not file Form 3 upon her election as a director. Ms. Ho was not re-nominated as a director for the 2006 fiscal year and Messrs. Ottalagana, Fain and McNamara were removed by the Board as officers and Messrs. Fain and McNamara resigned as directors. The company has requested the Securities and Exchange Commission to investigate the trading practices of these individuals in connection with their failure to file."
....so many dots are flying right now that I had to put a helmut on do to the number of ricochets.....
Happy Thanksgiving to all.....
Do shorts celebrate Thanksgiving...? Happy Thanksgiving to them too if they do....
dyna....
Follow the money.........
Have a good weekend everyone...
Hey... what up, home slice...
I've been out dazzling customers at lunch..they loved me...!!
(Translation - They think I'm full of shxt..!!)....as I said, I haven't figured out their service yet...not sure if a company has to be a subscriber for the info to be available or not...
Why yes Tor..someone did say naked shorts....
I love this stuff....I came across a company that can access short trade information for companies and investors...I particularly like the part that indicates that they can find out who is shorting a stock and who is illegally shorting a stock.....I love this country..it's full of usefull information like that..(I would like to personally thank Al Gore for inventing the internet).....I think companies like Torvec need to subscribe to the service to get the info...not sure how that part works, but I will be emailing the information to them about this company.....isn't this great...!!
http://buyins.net/
"BUYINS.NET has one goal: to even the playing field between institutional shorts and shareholders who have purchased bonafide ownership positions in US companies.
For decades Wall Street has been an enabler to nefarious trading activity in US stocks. By allowing short sellers to attack US stocks and sell stock that they do not own, a counterfeit stock printing press has gone unchecked. Even though the NASD and SEC have regulations that govern the legal short selling of stocks, there are countless loopholes that onshore and offshore institutions use to relentlessly attack US companies. This illegal activity is called "naked short selling".
Information is power. And finding out the "who, what, where" of this illegal naked short selling is what BUYINS.NET is doing. For the first time in history, the investing public is able to pull back the drapes on short selling activity and see which stocks are being attacked. But that is just the beginning. Once we find out who is being illegally shorted, we go the next step to find out at what prices these stocks have been shorted, what amounts have been shorted and with enough investigation, who is illegally shorting the stocks.
The devil is in the details. For the first time we will show you every short selling trade done in stocks on our lists. We will calculate the number of shares and the average price at which the stock was shorted. In essence, we will provide bonafide shareholders with the information as to what price the illegal naked short sellers will start losing money. Why is this important? Because if the government is not going to close the loopholes in new guidelines such as "Regulation SHO", then we can try to do it for them.
The best defense is a good offense. Every week we will profile a company that has been on the "naked short list" for at least 13 consecutive trading days. We will then show you the amount of short selling in the stock, the prices at which the stock was shorted and the average price where all the short sales will be out-of-the-money. Visit the TRADE SIGNALS portion of our site to get an in-depth report on the profiled company. BUYINS.NET will then alert institutions, high net worth individuals and sophisticated traders as to the "Special Situation".
There is no punishment more effective than losing money. BUYINS.NET will alert Wall Street and you as to what it takes to attack each of these illegal short sellers. There will be daily updates as to the status of the "failure to deliver" in each company’s stock and monthly updates as to the detailed short trading activity of each company’s stock. Browse our web site, peek behind the drapes and help shareholders take back their companies!
Did someone say naked shorts...?
Did someone say shorts.......?
dyna...
If you have warrants and are going to exercise them at some point, do you do it in the 2's near historical lows and pay taxes on the very low cost basis....?? OR do you exercise hundreds of thousands of warrants at prices in the 6's 7's and 8's to the tune of a $2.6 million tax basis with no plans of selling the shares and take the tax beating of a lifetime.....they need a new tax accountant..the one they have now is giving them really bad guidance....if they were exercising them now it would make more sense....that is not what has occurred....
As for GS, I assume you mean Siconolfi....he has a trail of 144's listed when he has sold stock....also, it apperas he exercised at an average in the 2's, which makes sense...
correction to my numbers on the warrants....
Figured out the Q4 part from the 10K...took a little math to figure it out...also made mistake on the Q1 - 04....
Q1 2004 should be zero...
Q4 2004 is 96,000 @5.00 = $480,000
The net effect isnot much different though...538,000 warrants exercised at roughly $2,670,200 in taxable events...!
Figured someone was going to correct me, might as well do it myself...
because he was unable to drive it to zero....
fortunately, Torvec doesnot have a death spiral financing scenario like that....
"Illegal naked short selling, according to Robert Shapiro, a former Under Secretary of Commerce, has cost investors $100 billion and driven 1,000 companies into the ground."
Sheriff....
You said.... "Since Torvec is debt free and there is no easy way for a short to get his hands quickly on shares(very low float) it would seem to me to be very unlikely."
The reason it is called naked shorting and is illegal is that the naked shorter has no intention of getting their hands on the shares.....
Dyna...you're post got me thinking...
I did some digging and a little homework...
Spoke to an accounting friend about warrants. When a warrant is exercised and is converted to a share of stock, it is a taxable event based on the value of the stock at the time of conversion, as opposed to the value of the stock when the share is sold....due to the taxable event upon conversion, warrants are not exercised unless the recipient intends to sell the stock, and out of the proceeds, fund the tax liability...
The 10Q for Q3 2005 had a notation indicating that CXO exercised no warrants in Q3 of 2005, compared to exercising 153,600 warrants in Q3 of 2004...I must have missed that info before....so I went back to all of the quarterlies for Torvec for 2005 and 2004 and low and behold, I found some interesting info that I never picked up on before....CXO has exercised a minimum of 546,800 warrants...!!! I went through each quarter and used the average share closing prices for the corresponding quarter to come up with an approximate taxable dollar amount for these exercised warrants...it's big number...
Here is what I found:
Q1 of 2004 - 104,000 @ 6.25 = $652,500
Q2 of 2004 - 96,000 @ 7.20 = $691,200
Q3 of 2004 - 153,600 @ 5.00 = $768,000
Q4 of 2004 - couldn't find info in 10K
Q1 of 2005 - 104,400 @ 4.25 = $443,700
Q2 of 2005 - 88,400 @ 3.25 = $287,300
Q3 of 2005 - none
That's a total of $2,842,700 that they have to pay taxes on, plus what ever may have been exercised in Q4 of 2004...since they could have exercised these warrants at any time, are you telling me that they have been sitting on these shares and have watched the value plunge to a level that is BELOW what the tax liability most likely adds up to....?????
"Those 144's must be around here somewhere...honey, have you seen a big pile of 144 forms anywhere..? I swear I put them right here...?"
Follow the money.....
This quote from the article caught my attention..
"Illegal naked short selling, according to Robert Shapiro, a former Under Secretary of Commerce, has cost investors $100 billion and driven 1,000 companies into the ground."