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OT..
How would ya like to have bought 10,000 shares in some little known natural beverage company called Hanson Natural ( HANS) in August 01 for 38,800...After today's earnings call you'd be holding 1.75 Mill Investment....No I'm not making any correlation to TOVC.. They have a pretty attractive income statement..must be nice margins in that "Monster" drink junk... (I'm Diet Pepsi )
I like The Laidlaw Letter the best..
Having an endorsement of the largest private Bus contractor
In North America is a pretty good place to start..Our Elected Officials are always proud to tout job creation..let's see what they can do with this opportunity..Hope someone doesn't forget to pick up the SAIC folks at the airport...It's always nice to have more than one iron in the fire..
Leitrim
That does it..
she's lost my vote for President...
Atl:
read that or something similar to that on MSN yesterday but in real small print it said it was an advertisement- no $$ mentioned and or contracts referred to but....Hey atleast they are tryin...???
Hey Dread.......
I guess one can find some hope in your prognostications..Oh Yeh by the way..it's State Sen. Ro-bach not Rorbach..that's the micro brewery downtown..guess maybe that's where you mentally are on this sunny friday p.m. ...................
Slainte'
Pretty Cool..But when that thing is available in 2010 and is capable of running on corn oil ,coffee grinds, or banana peels...it's still gonna need a transmission...right???
Keep me out of all this ...Anyone wants to chat with me..you know my name and my number...Go back and read the last 20 posts or so and this starts to remind one of a third grade shoving match and is about as interesting..I will state one final thought..One of the key things that irked me about CXO engagement , their website pronouncements etc..All this talk of "impeccable integrity", isn't that for others to decide and pronounce on your behalf..??I.e I don;t know a single person on this board other than through a little cyber speak on an investment decision that seems- on the surface- may finally start to see the light of day....My old Irish Grandfather had a great saying...."Always try to be a gentleman it's the one thing that never goes out of style..." Enough already..
Yep saw that too..
If we can get to the point where the Company is able to freely share with the World the real benefits of the technology maybe the D&C reporters will be forced to drop the caveat type words like the Company "hopes" and "claims"..I'd rather see a big bold banner that says "Torvec forms Joint Venture with (insert your favorite OEM/ name/ country of origin etc..here)sees Billion Dollar Market"......Sorry too much sun...
Here is a another interesting read..
dealing with China, U.S. Oil etc..alot of it scary from our national Security interests..but I must say ..They are coming..and quickly. it is inevitable...
How China is winning the oil race
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As Americans pay more for gas, China gobbles up deals for new supplies of oil and other critical resources -- often from rogue regimes in Africa, South America and the Middle East.
By Jon D. Markman
Is America too ethical to have cheap gasoline?
That is the inescapable question presented to U.S. investors and policy makers as pump prices soar following a state visit by Chinese President Hu Jintao.
The United States is the world's greatest consumer of energy at present, but China is the world's fastest-growing consumer. That puts us in direct competition for any new sources of crude oil, natural gas, coal and uranium that materialize through exploration and discovery, not to mention any current sources that profit-seeking producers decide to put up for grabs. See the news
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Increasingly, new energy sources that China is acquiring are in countries that Americans find distasteful. Many of them are in Africa, in countries with horrific human-rights records such as Sudan, Chad and the Republic of the Congo. And much of the energy is controlled by rapacious despots in the Central Asian republic of Kazakhstan and in Southeast Asia's Myanmar.
Energy acquisition is a zero-sum game in which there are winners and losers. Any new energy that China obtains for its fast-growing economy is unavailable to us forever. So you just have to wonder whether the United States' antipathy for dealing with the worst of the world's rogue states has led inexorably to $4-a-gallon gasoline this spring.
The new colonial power
Dan Zhou, chief analyst at CEB Monitor Group in Beijing, points out that China has emerged as an attractive partner in Africa and Central Asia in four ways: Its intensifying demand drives up prices for their products, which are largely raw materials such as oil, zinc and copper. It sets virtually no standards for political transparency or economic reform to get deals done. It ignores internal human-rights abuses as an impediment to deal-making. And it is a one-stop shop, offering not just investment, trade, skilled workers and military weapons, but also diplomatic protection in the form of its United Nations Security Council veto.
China's hunt for oil in Africa has made it essentially the new colonial superpower in the region, surpassing the memories of prior imperial forces like Belgium, Italy, the Netherlands, Great Britain and France. And it has achieved that status in record time. Trade between China and Africa, which totaled $10 billion in 2000, soared to $39.7 billion in 2005. According to research by CEB Monitor, here is a guidebook of China's assets in the region:
Sudan. China has a $4 billion investment in the country widely believed to have the largest untapped oil reserves in Africa. The China National Petroleum Corp. has a 40% stake in Greater Nile Petroleum, which owns oil fields, a pipeline, a large refinery and a port. Last year, China purchased more than half of Sudan's oil exports. Conversely, Sudan accounted for 6% of China's oil imports, about 200,000-plus barrels a day.
Angola. Offshore wells have made this Africa's second-largest oil producer. Through February of this year, Angola accounted for 13% of all oil imports to China -- making it the country's main supplier. China has committed at least $3 billion in loans to Angola for additional oil rights, and has supplied engineers and trained workers to develop fields. China is now Angola's largest aid donor as well.
Nigeria. This is Africa's largest oil producer, and until recently has not been a major supplier to China. However, China's largest publicly held oil company, CNOOC (CEO, news, msgs), bought a 45% stake in a Nigerian oil-and-gas field for $2.27 billion last month and has also bought 35% of an exploration license in the Niger Delta for $60 million.
Elsewhere in Africa. CNOOC has been active in Equatorial Guinea, Chad and Gabon; made investments of $170 million in the mines of Zambia; and become a major weapons supplier and trading partner of Zimbabwe, run with unbounded corruption by global outcast Robert Mugabe.
A less meddlesome buyer
In Latin America, the story is much the same: China is increasingly becoming the partner of choice for repressive, paranoid or regionally ambitious regimes that want to buy guns and tanks with their oil and ore revenues.
According to The Los Angeles Times, the Bush administration held talks with the Chinese to encourage them to curb their role in training and advising forces in our southern hemisphere. This is getting to be a problem, as the region -- fabulously rich in metal, energy and agricultural resources -- is increasingly run by ideologues willing to snub traditional U.S. interests and seek less meddlesome buyers.
China is now Latin America's second-largest trading partner, surpassing Europe. From 2001 to 2006, exports from the region to China rose more than 500%. In 2004 alone, Hu signed letters of intent worth $100 billion over the next 10 years, according to published reports. Here are the key developments by country, according to CEB Monitor:
Brazil: The largest South American country exports iron ore, soybeans, cotton, oil and sugar to China and jointly develops satellites and aerospace equipment. China has promised $10 billion in additional investment in the short term.
Argentina: China has signed agreements offering $20 billion in investment over 10 years. CNOOC is developing an offshore oil field.
Venezuela: This is the third most important source of foreign oil to the United States, but political and social disputes have led strongman Hugo Chavez to seek alternative partners. He plans to double oil exports to China to 300,000 barrels a day, about a fifth of the 1.5 million barrels a day that are sent to the United States. The Chinese are buying stakes in several oil fields, making their output unavailable to U.S. consumers.
Ecuador: This country is a top-three producer of oil for the West Coast of the United States. The Chinese just purchased one oil field and are in negotiations for more.
Meanwhile, in the Middle East, Hu has found in Saudi Arabia another repressive regime that wishes to ease away from a highly dependent relationship with the United States. He visited in January, and turned around and visited again this month on his way home from Washington, with weapons sales and technology transfer high on the discussion list. China gets an eighth of its oil imports from the Saudis, and trade has increased ninefold since 2000 to $14 billion.
As you might expect, Iran is China's fastest rising partner in the region. There have been unconfirmed reports that Hu has committed to spend $70 billion to $100 billion to develop a single large oil field in Iran, about a fifth of which involves a $20 billion order to purchase liquefied natural gas over the next 25 years. Zhou says that one Chinese company is expanding Tehran subways, another is building out the city's fiber-optic networks, and others are setting up auto and electronics factories. It probably won't be long before Iran becomes China's largest source of imported oil, which will put their economic and political interests directly opposed to U.S. politicians and consumers.
Neighbors: theirs and ours
And finally we get to Central Asia republics, which formerly belonged to the Soviet Union, all nestled up against China's back door. They deliver almost 500,000 barrels of oil a day through pipelines and tankers. This has been a boon to the commissars of Kazakhstan, where gross domestic product has reached $56 billion due to the development of its robust energy fields by U.S., European and Russian explorers. The country shares a border with the gigantic Xinjian province of China and has developed fast-expanding bilateral trade, not just in oil and gas, but also cement and small manufactured goods.
Of course, the Chinese have not left democratic countries' resources off its shopping list. A couple of years ago, it bought a big stake in the big Canadian miner Noranda, and it has dozens of supply relationships with individual Alberta and Saskatchewan oil, gas and coal producers. No rock is left unturned, so to speak; a venture capitalist in my Seattle office building has helped Chinese entrepreneurs acquire privately held coal, gold and silver mining interests throughout the western United States.
For stone-cold U.S. investors, the obvious play here is to simply tag along by taking positions in foreign and domestic companies supplying the Chinese juggernaut, whether they are base metal producer Falconbridge (FAL, news, msgs) in Canada; a producer of Turkish energy like Toreador Resources (TRGL, news, msgs) of Texas; a producer of Venezuelan oil and gas like Harvest Natural Resources (HNR, news, msgs); or the two big Chinese energy companies CNOOC or China Petroleum & Chemical (SNP, news, msgs).
For consumers, outraged indignation is about the best you can do, along with new personal choices about limiting the use of fossil fuel. China has no incentive to bend to U.S. demands to force change on its repressive foreign energy partners. And our politicians are unlikely yet to ease up on rules preventing U.S. companies from participating in the sort of bribery and weapons brokerage that has become de riguer for doing business in the equatorial zone where most new energy sources
Can't speak....
for the masses but I'm all done buying.. all out of essential organs- therefore I'm ready for the price to go up..Hardly a whisper in today's D&C -no quotes and alot of "alleged" words with respects to the technology..( so far Dread is right about the hometown paper being alseep at the wheel- I'm not ready to give in to a conspiracy theory yet...If They had quoted Robach and then if they looked Conboys for a comment he called Robach "a carnival barker" or words to that effect..then I'm thinking something is fishy..)In the meantime..let's get the EPA testing done and I'll help pay the for cost of the press release to the Financial community..at that time gas will most likely be $3.50 a gallon..saw a guy yesterday At B.J's top of his big road hog to the tune of $85................The right technology at the right time....
Zendo....
It'll be interesting to see if you even get any response at all..Jim is dead right in one sense..that inelasticity of demand of Gasoline- we have to drive, to work, to play, to eat, to go to church..we can crab all we like but your life- atleast up here in appleknocker country is going to be pretty limited if you rely on our mass transit options..so this is a pretty compelling technology at the moment..I like the timing..And here is to hoping this is step one of a full court press on marketing the benefits of the tech..local, state, federal, worldwide..not just the IVT but everything..it's time to roll..
LOL Zendo...too true..
He loves the sound of his own voice..In all fairness I think he's more sincere and truly has had more interest in upstate's issues than D'Amato ever did..I don't care about whatever political party wants in on the action..just get the talk, attention, deals, volume headin our way..it's all good stuff.Holy crap I'm running out of posts for today..Hey SAIC join the fray..you're out of the buzz today...
Agree..
Check MSN Yahoo whatever you choose. it's the headline of the day and Bush always squalking about alternative energy development , rolling back tax credits to big oil, releasing reserves from Strategic Reserve ( I always love that one- like spitting in the ocean...) Where the heck is Hilary???.she loves a camera..Have her trot her squirrel cheeks up here and announce that a little development company in her constituency has developed a transmmision that'll bump milage up nearly 30% for the driving that we all do 60% of the time..( Oh yeh it'll save the companies alot of money too cause it's got like 1/3 of the parts of the ones we all use now...) Art Guy..Where are ya..??
The next Release..
The one which will speak directly to the EPA type testing..Well, man if that one doesn't get more run than this message board..Then, I'd be at a loss.... if nothing else Robach's push if sincere, which I have no doubt that it is, should help pave the way for NYS school buses to try the IVT and Iso torque- You don;t see too many school buses hauling over 50 mph....I like the update but I'm cautious...I stopped in earlier on Monday and they were too busy to visit..I wasn;t offended...
Thanks for the heads up..
That is a nice read..He's a good guy..both he and his father have always been good advocates for Upstate In particular, and New York...I also, think is was a way for TOVC to continue to try and reach out and show what is going on, what they are trying to do.. to the shareholders.Let's hope this can get gain some enertia for the company..High gas prices are gonna be our reality..
Good Post JFS..
your "post vent" comment of <have to believe there is something quite substantive going on behind closed doors that will make this marketing issue a moot point.> while maybe not quite consensus this sentiment sure does seem to taken hold on the board ( well maybe not Dyna and Sheriff)..April doesn't have too many more days, it appears from the 10-K that we're still talking to SAIC fairly regularly, and JG had said awhile back that his intention was to have the CEO Updates be more regular..maybe brief ones but on a more frequent basis.. It has been real quiet..almost strategically quiet with all the fuel cost spikes occurring??? I hope "we're" right..
I've tried that theory a few times before..My brother calls it "tempo in a can" ( or three or four...) Never worked for me..I'll grant ya didn;t care as much if I played lousy but that's not the idea is it...c'mon Torvec..lets' get going..You know we are in depression if my golf game is now a topic of conversation....
Hello Beach..
it's just the nature of the Beast in investing..You stated people don;t <have the knowledge nor the ability to 2nd guess him ( JG) and come up with the junk they do.> 99.99% of the stuff on this board are opinions/hopes/dreams/ with thanks to Dread and yourself the occasional interesting Industry Article to review..until that very large rock starts tipping over that very high hill people are going to have doubts at the Industry Interest being what it has been alluded to be by Management..that is just human nature..( particularly if you had put too much on the table @ 8-12 bucks a share..)..JG knows that..No one knows what is or isn't going on over there..Why not stay tuned after this long???.$4 a gallon before too long..?? someone other than the ten of us is gonna know about an IVT with Diesel application I'm bettin- even if it is just Artguy talking to Amy Wu.....( and it's a pretty big bet for a cheap skate like me...)
Yeh..true...
but like many lads I do my best work at the 19th hole
Regards
Thanks again beach..
Good read..interesting time with oil prices Us/ China Trade siutation..liked this quote:
"But can the industrious and driven people of Shanghai design, engineer, and market their own great cars?" Yes I believe they can..Let's get Torvec's IVT in the whole fleet as part of this initial strategy and we'll have Peace in the Valley...and I can get to work on this 19 Handicap...
lot's of chatter today..
Natives are restless? spring Fever? tired of share price being under the price of small coffee @ Dunkin donuts..??
Here's a good read on Chinese President's trip to Boeing and Microsoft....
Hu Says Relationship With Boeing 'Win-Win'
Wednesday April 19, 2:44 pm ET
By Allison Linn, AP Business Writer
Chinese President Tours Boeing, Says Relationship With Company Is 'Win-Win'
SEATTLE (AP) -- Calling his country's relationship with the Boeing Co. an example of the "win-win" potential of China-U.S. trade, Chinese President Hu Jintao on Wednesday told an audience of aircraft workers that his country will need thousands of new planes in coming years.
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Hu's speech at the company's massive Everett plant comes just days after Chinese officials confirmed a commitment to order 80 Boeing 737 jets, in a deal valued at $5.2 billion at list prices. The order has yet to be finalized, and airlines typically negotiate discounts.
"Boeing's cooperation with China is a living example of the mutually beneficial cooperation and win-win outcome that China and the United States have achieved from trade with each other," Hu said. "In the next 15 years, the demand for new aircraft will reach 2,000 planes. This clearly points to a bright tomorrow for future cooperation between Boeing and China."
Boeing has estimated that China will require 2,600 new airplanes over the next 20 years.
Workers at the plant were eager for a glimpse of Hu.
"China is one of the largest markets for Boeing," said Craig Thompson, an engineer at the Everett plant. "The guy's coming here. I'm going to listen to what he has to say."
Hu began his day Wednesday at his downtown Seattle hotel by visiting with China scholars and academics, including former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, former National Security Adviser Brent Scowcroft and former Defense Secretary William J. Perry.
The big Boeing deal is one of several purchases the Chinese made recently as officials try to ease tensions over the massive trade gap between the two nations. It's one of several issues President Bush is expected to raise when Hu heads to Washington, D.C.
Hu's Thursday summit with Bush will cover a broad agenda, from China's much-criticized currency and other trade policies, to its aggressive search for oil and its positions on the developing nuclear programs in Iran and North Korea.
On Tuesday, Hu toured Microsoft's suburban Redmond campus and dined at company chairman Bill Gates' home. Hu said he admired what Gates had achieved. He also sought to reassure Gates that China is serious about protecting intellectual property rights, a key concern for the company as it battles widespread piracy of its Windows operating system there.
"Because you, Mr. Bill Gates, are a friend of China, I'm a friend of Microsoft," Hu said through a translator. "Also, I am dealing with the operating system produced by Microsoft every day," he added, to laughter.
Gates responded: "Thank you, it's a fantastic relationship," and then quipped: "And if you ever need advice on how to use Windows, I'll be glad to help."
In a whirlwind visit, Hu -- accompanied by Gates, company CEO Steve Ballmer and an entourage of Chinese dignitaries -- saw some business technology demonstrations and toured Microsoft's Home of the Future, which features experimental technology.
Hu began his American visit Tuesday in Everett, about 30 miles north of Seattle, where members of the Seattle Kung Fu Club and a handful of ribbon dancers from a Seattle elementary school welcomed him.
Hu also was greeted by government and business leaders, including Gov. Chris Gregoire and Starbucks Corp. Chairman Howard Schultz.
Hu told Gregoire he didn't choose Seattle simply because it's the closest major U.S. city to China.
"It is also because your state enjoys very good cooperative relations with my country," Hu said through a translator.
China is Washington state's third-largest export market, while Washington imported more than $16 billion worth of products from China in 2005.
Demonstrators both in support and opposition to Hu lined the streets near his downtown Seattle hotel. Supporters waved Chinese and American flags.
Members of the spiritual movement Falun Gong, condemned by the Chinese government as an evil cult, staked out all four corners around the hotel Tuesday to protest treatment of the movement's followers in China.
At the entrance to Microsoft's campus, protesters waved signs in Chinese and English that read "Stop web censorship" and "Release all political prisoners."
Following the meeting at Microsoft, about 100 guests, including Kissinger and former Gov. Gary Locke, the first Chinese-American governor, were invited to Gates' home on Lake Washington for a dinner Gregoire hosted there. The guest list included executives from Costco Wholesale Corp., Weyerhaeuser Co., Boeing and Amazon.com Inc.
Gates took Hu on a tour of his lavish home before the guests were seated at 10 tables in the reception hall. Waiters handed out glasses of Dom Perignon champagne for the toasts that preceded a dinner of smoked Guinea fowl with hazelnuts, spring radish and Granny Smith apples and filet of beef with Walla Walla sweet onions and Washington-grown asparagus.
Hu thanked Gregoire for her hospitality and thanked Gates, again through a translator, for "providing this elegant venue with both traditional arts and modern technology and fine tastes."
The visit came as Microsoft, after years of battling widespread software piracy in the potentially lucrative China market, is hopeful that things are changing. Chinese government officials say they are serious about cracking down on sales of illegal copies of Microsoft's Windows operating system, and some computer makers are pledging to ship more computers with legitimate Windows software installed.
Although analysts say it could be some time before the promised changes have a significant effect on Microsoft's sales, the pledges are a feel-good backdrop for Hu's visit with Gates and other business and government executives.
Associated Press Writers Elizabeth M. Gillespie, Peggy Andersen and Melanthia Mitchell contributed to this report.
Looks like...
Tax Season is over...??? ( grin)..XOM up to $64..I'm telling ya it helps take away some of the sting...
Can you imagine how boring things would be if we had Peace here in the Ihub Valley...!!!! anybody play (golf yet...) not me but sure looks nice today...
Leitrim
..Dread
still holding in the "still water runs deep camp.."( phew)
As for me..I'm out sourcing for another kidney on Ebay..just in case we get to 1.30 again..
While I'm waiting
for TOVC..I've owned XOM..like JG said I like that inelasticity demand thing..$3>25 a gallon this summer is gonna stink anyway you slice it..just wait til the India and China start guzzling like us..Yikes...
Artguy..
well said as per usual..I think you are a very proficient writer..don't sell yourself short..! No argument here but a thought..It's almost as if your point is (while quoting the Drucker Quote on TOVC Website) "The Best Way to Predict the Future is to Create it.." putting words in your mouth.."What good is to create that Future if you don't effectively market it, generate interest,craft your message and ultimately sell the product for fair value...??" Without a doubt that is the most frustrating thing in a development stock in general and this one in particular.. Is that going on as we speak?? ---some think so, Some have real doubts and then there are us fair weather folks- sitting on the fence looking for storm clouds, sunshine,smoke signals, anything- Let;s see if the filing gives us anything to yak about.... Good post..
Hey Dread..
Do you look these up to inform us faithful
longs or to torment...??? From the post <"We believe that the pace of road development, though improving, is unlikely to be dramatic in the medium term," it concluded."> I can see Art Guy's first marketing slogan in New Delhi..."Torvec's FTV..Take the Road with You" pretty close ???
Come look me up if any of ya see "Storm Clouds"- East or West makes no difference to me...This Co has way too much to offer not to be clicking on All cylinders If not Now -VERY SOON- Yes I hate to say it but "Weeks not months...???"Sorry for the bad memories.. ..all comments welcome...
Re: Ghosn
Thanks for that post..I enjoy quotes from that guy..find his candor refreshing..If I owned GM ( which thankfully I don't) I'd be after the BOD to back up the Brinks truck to lure him away..Doubt he'd take it ..who'd want that gig..??? So ya think someone is going to have the stones to start offering a line of diesels with a new type of transmission..( more efficient, less expensive and a whole ot "greener"..) My Brother just got one of those mammoth Acura SUV's..very sweet..but me thinks he ain;t gonna be happy filling up the tank on that bad boy come July 4th @ $3.25 a gallon...
not sure about the lightning..
but if there is something in a 10K that is filed before Monday that tickles your fancy I bet you'll find your lap top..Not expecting anything but if there were a nugget or two that helps with a value "resurrection" during this Easter Season, to quote my friend Beachcomber..I'd be cool with that...Have a Nice Holiday weekend everybody..Spring is coming..time to clean up the clubs..Leitrim
Thanks Beach..
These reads are all encouraging..sure look forward to the Day if and when Jim is able to discuss/announce just how TOVC and OUR patented tech "fits" into SAIC's ambitious plans !!! ??? If there is some room for elaboration of plans and details, well even I would predict we will not be at $1.65 a share...how's that for going out on a limb..are those storm clouds ....??..Ole Dylan once said.."it's a hard rain gonna fall.."
Leitrim
Hey Dino..
I certainly get the frustration but I think Beach is right..Something has to give...escalation in fuel prices..Industry starting to publically acknowledge the advantages of diesel, China's determination to be a manufacturing player, Detroit's Malaise ( And IMO inevitable decline due to cost pressures)..All these factors play into Torvec's ultimate value ..I would love to hear/read Elizabeth Harrington's assessment about TOVC's likely success..Having been high up @ PW in China for 20+ years she probably has an interesting perspective on their business methodology ( s)..
Good Luck..Leitrim
Hey Dino...
Certainly don't want to speak for the group- but I haven't been holding this since '99 for $5 a share???..Doubt our friend plunking down 40 K a month @ $4 a share does either..Dread while you were enjoying your ribs, did you get any sense that your theory of the delay in the Chinese delegation was on the right track..?? certainly don't have to respond- just that Eidlin said in writing they were expected in February..and here we are tax time approaching...???Hey, I can wait idle and content to be blinded by the Perfect storm..Have a nice week everyone..beautiful day today..Spring= Hope=Rebirth
P.S Torvecian the Outlaws can sure smoke for 50 somethings..cookin band..
Well Artguy...that and
They have to file that 10K evenutally..maybe that will give us another dot or two to connect..As far as the CEO update..I hope
they are too busy to even contemplate that....( and I hope the Accounting Officer is up on his feet and has his laptop and amortization tables all fired up..:)
Have a nice weekend everybody..Off to Turning Stone to see "The Outlaws"..any of you Dinosaurs remember them from the mid seventies...??? cold beer and loud guitars..not bad for a Friday..Slainte' Leitrim
O.K..That's enuff boys..
Here is another good China read to print and take to the Men's room..from Newsweek..That idea of branding being a problem for high end China products is an interesting hurdle for automotive industry SAIC..How would you guys get around marketing the FTV as a Chinese product..?? me I'd call it a "Torvec FTV" born and raised in the USA..invented by V Gleasman and Family ..just made overseas with some non UAW Labor..sort of toungue in cheek here but I am curious..of opinions...Let's get off the subject of who is a bigger liar than who...We look like mean spirited Yanks...
March 1 issue - Nestled deep in Kwun Tong, Hong Kong's gritty factory district, China's leading cell-phone manufacturer is plotting to conquer the world. Hatched in 1992 to make pagers in its namesake coastal city, Ningbo Bird sold more handsets on the mainland last year—nearly 11 million—than Nokia or Motorola. But that was then, and now Wang Jianping, director of Bird International Ltd., has fixed his gaze three to five years down the road—on markets like Vietnam, India and Africa. "China could reach basic equilibrium in just three years," he says, meaning the cell-phone market could be fully mature and new business opportunities increasingly rare. "For us to grow, overseas expansion is a must."
Even as its white-hot economy continues to outpace the rest of the world, China is setting the stage for a shift in priorities. The last two decades of economic reform—indeed, the last 5,000 years of Chinese history—have been focused largely on changes within the Middle Kingdom. Foreigners intoxicated with dreams of selling oil for China's lamps have paid tribute to Beijing for the privilege of investing in the country. Chinese companies have been preoccupied with overhauling their operations and forestalling labor unrest. China's economic clout has been based, first and foremost, on its citizens—as sources of cheap labor, and as a massive market giving the country the power to pick and choose among suitors.
But now it's China that is beginning to court the world. Buoyed by an incredible $403 billion in foreign reserves, Chinese companies are going on a shopping spree, with a menagerie of elite mainland brands establishing footholds abroad. Leading state enterprises are scouting for overseas partners or takeover targets that offer technology, raw materials and inroads into new markets. Capital is flowing out at record levels—China claimed overseas assets of $35 billion as of the end of 2002. And with a string of new deals either landed or on the horizon, "China will become a visible player not just in the markets for toys and TVs this year," says Dong Tao, chief regional economist for Credit Suisse First Boston in Hong Kong, "but in mergers and acquisitions around the globe."
In February the Shanghai Baosteel Group announced China's largest single foreign investment since it embarked on economic reforms in 1979: a $1.4 billion joint-venture steel mill in Brazil. In December, China National Bluestar Group signed an initial agreement to buy a controlling interest in South Korea's Ssangyong Motors, reportedly pledging $1 billion to turn the company around, including $550 million for its stake in the jeep and SUV maker. The two deals together topped China's average annual foreign-direct-investment outflow of $2.3 billion in the 1990s, and additional investments are in the pipeline. The sums involved bring to mind Japan in the 1980s. But unlike that earlier spending spree, much of it targeting vanity real estate and Hollywood studios, China's breakout is strikingly savvy. Its foreign investments are binding together emerging markets into a kind of global supply chain, while picking off distressed companies for their technology, brands or markets.
To quell fears of Chinese domination, Beijing promotes a theory it calls "peaceful emergence," which holds that its rise will lift all boats. In recent years China has negotiated more than 100 trade, tax or investment accords, both bilaterally and with regional blocs like ASEAN, winning itself good will in emerging markets while opening them to low-cost imports. Unlike the industrialized world, where the People's Republic has been demonized for stealing —jobs from America and Europe, poor countries see China as a crucial consumer of primary commodities from oil to timber to cotton, and as a counterweight to Western nations.
That has eased any frictions that might otherwise have been engendered by China's bids to purchase auto works, refineries, port facilities and telecom networks, or to make exclusive deals for raw materials. The ultimate purpose, of course, is to strengthen domestic businesses. Although China is flush with money to spend, its leaders know spending too much at home could overheat the economy, add upward pressure on the renminbi and undermine China's competitiveness as a cheap-labor haven. One solution is to take over production of the raw materials necessary to keep the country's assembly lines, mills, foundries and refineries humming.
Baosteel's huge Brazilian investment points the way to the future. China's vanguard steelmaker helped ramp up domestic production from 80 million tons in 1995 to a staggering 250 million tons today. Still, China has emerged as the world's top steel importer. For Baosteel, the logical response is to expand further. But how? Iron ore, the key input for steel, is costly to import now that China (which already ships in a third of its ore) has run up the price. Baosteel's answer: a green-field steel mill to be built with a joint-venture partner, Companhia Vale do Rio Doce, the world's largest producer of iron ore. Once completed, the venture will ship steel—not its raw components—back to the home market in China. Frank Zhang, a metals analyst at CLSA in Hong Kong, says the Baosteel investment "will set a trend of Chinese companies going abroad to secure resource supplies."
For high-flying manufacturers like Ningbo Bird, on the other hand, outward expansion is a way to leverage rapid growth at home. Launched on a shoestring, Bird made pagers before shifting to the wireless-phone business for foreign multinationals entering the China market. After learning the ropes, it launched its own brand to target poor interior provinces. Expanding both geographically and with more sophisticated products, Bird became China's top seller nationally in 2003 after just 12 years in business. Yet its main international rivals manufacture millions more phones per year in China, with most going to export markets. Emulating that example, Bird has formulated a long-term strategy that entails transforming itself into a global company. "Could you imagine Nokia focusing only on its home market? Come on!" says Albert Sun, a Bird executive in Hong Kong.
INSEAD Business School scholars Ming Zeng and Peter J. Williamson say the industrialized world has ignored the emergence of powerful rivals in China. In an October 2003 study in the Harvard Business Review entitled "The Hidden Dragons," they examine a cohort of Chinese firms that have, under their own banners, become world-beating makers of refrigerators, microwave ovens and TVs. Dizzy at the prospect of tapping China's vast market, most multinationals are "myopic" when it comes to "the emergence of Chinese companies as powerful rivals—not only within China but also throughout the global market," they write. One example they cite: Guangdong Galanz, which posted $1 billion in revenues in 2002 and made four in 10 microwave ovens sold that year in Europe.
The one thing these companies haven't managed to do, though, is develop internationally recognized brands. Take Haier, the appliance giant. A state-owned enterprise based in the coastal city of Qingdao, it stormed China's domestic white-goods market in the 1990s before broadening its business model as the mainland became saturated with household appliances. It built factories in Europe and the United States, where it now sells wine coolers, fridges, dishwashers and flat-screen TVs in hundreds of retail outlets. Its flag flies over a new North American headquarters in Manhattan, and its ads adorn vans that dash through New York traffic. Yet despite this success, Haier "has gone global in manufacturing but not yet as a brand," says Paul French, a consumer-goods consultant at Access Asia in Shanghai. " 'Made in China' is still hard to sell at a premium."
A few Chinese manufacturers are now taking another path: buying brands abroad. Huizhou-based TCL, the world's leading television maker, for instance, merged with the television unit of France's Thomson last November. The $560 billion deal gave TCL a controlling stake in the new venture—plus the monikers Thomson in Europe and RCA in the United States. Weeks later, China National Bluestar, a Chinese chemical conglomerate, laid claim to Ssangyong Motors. The Chinese firm—which already owns a subsidiary that makes jeeps for the Chinese military—probably plans to tap the Korean motor company's technology and expertise to expand into China's SUV market as well as take advantage of Ssangyong's good name across Asia.
Although not yet finalized, the takeover has sparked fears in South Korea that China might soon pose more of a threat than an opportunity. Unlike many of its neighbors in Asia, Seoul made quick adjustments in the late 1990s to integrate with the rising continental power on its doorstep. Recent economic data show that the strategy paid off—at least in the short run. Last year China surpassed the United States to become the South's leading export market. Sales of Korean goods into China have doubled in each of the last two years and now stand at nearly $36 billion. Yet the Ssang-yong takeover has some Koreans afraid that China's outward investment will hasten its rise as a competitive player in high-tech areas where South Korea is currently the leader. Chung Sang Eun, a senior analyst at the Samsung Economic Research Institute in Seoul, says the day when Korea "served as the brain and China the hands and legs" could soon end.
Indeed, Korea's Ministry of Commerce recently warned that the country's technological edge is slipping fast. Its lead over China in cell-phone technology will disappear by 2007, its flat-screen-television advantage by 2010. Between 2008 and 2011, it forecasts, South Korea's $13.5 billion trade surplus with the mainland will have vanished into chronic deficit. Some fear these trend lines will accelerate if Chinese companies cherry-pick other Korean high-tech companies. Although China has helped Seoul weather years of slack domestic consumption, Korea's reliance on the Chinese economy may also create dangerous dependencies, especially if Korean companies neglect the need to upgrade their technologies or identify future niche markets.
Barring an unforeseen downturn in China, after all, outward investment is likely to soar in the years ahead. Says Jean-Pierre Verbiest, a senior economist at the Asian Development Bank, "If you do projections 10 years down the road, when income will probably have more than doubled, just think of the changes we'll see." More brash grabs for resources and technology, most likely, as well as grander schemes by leading Chinese manufacturers to become the next Samsung, Philips or Ford. Might Ningbo Bird soar to such heights? Like China itself, the cell-phone upstart has no choice but to try.
With Alexandra A. Seno in Hong Kong and B. J. Lee in Seoul
He's not short..
He's invested, long, and temporarily perplexed at the state of things....I'll give you his name and number-call him and you can continue the dialogue off line..
We all know
Our fate on this one is in JG/KG's hands..it's that simple..we own a slice of the pie but it's their pie..are there games going on with the stock..Is this being manipulated..Who knows maybe, probably..all I know is reading that Article that Dread posted..wholly crap..They ( SAIC) are coming onto the world stage and it's happening faster than planned..They ( TOVC) have said They are not Neophytes, They know what they are doin, etc..I'll grant ya with today's trading it's hard to support
Veni, Vidi, Vici chatter at the close...
Re: 891..
That's all I could get for MY kidney.. $ 2( a share) X #891 shares = $1782..you'd think more but I've lived hard and fast life.... ( Zendo- only kidding loved that post...)Feb March have come and gone..Let's hope April showers bring some May Flowers...Holding on Leitrim
"Majority owned Subsidiary..."??
Wouldn;t that refer to Ice Surface..??Aren;t the others ( IVT Diesel and Iso Torque) Wholly Owned subsidiaries...??..that would be cool if something commercial in nature occurred with the Ice Technology....Do they even have a separate website anymore.....?? o.k Tor read the tea leaves.."we're real busy and our accounting officer took ill...we'll file when we can..What else...Regards,
Leitrim
Dread & Co.
That last article on Diesel's.???..Well, recall that one Annual Meeting when Keith quietly said..."the right technology at the right time"...That article is like a hanging curve ball!!!!!! Please Tell us things are happening..???!!! At the risk of sounding like Emerile Lagasse..I'm reading that article and wanna scream "BAM"....better milage, cleaner running diesel..tranny will save you $$$$$ not cost you more..etc etc..etc..it's all teed up on route 96- Bushnell's Basin .stop by and bring your checkbook...Sorry too much coffee already....Happy thoughts, perfect storms .................
Already viewed it Dread..
but thanks for the offer..With every story in the
the news the past few days about Immigration policies etc..
everytime I see footage with INS cruising Texas/ Arizona in
rusty ole Pickups..can;t help but envision shiny Red White and Blue FTV''s in their place...(of course manufactured in Shanghai...) still awful quiet...
Regards..