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Would you know if these claim amounts include unpaid coupons and interest or just face value?
According to the prospectus, the CT face value is $25 whereas the claim with unpaid coupons and divideneds include another $9+ or about $34.
So, the claim to be paid, IMO, could be either .211 x 25 = $5.275 or $7.174 per CT share.
Your guess is as good as mine.
Thanks.
mojo
Your guess is as good as mine.
Thanks.
mojo
You're right, wayne49, as far as the prices go.
Since the K's hit their high, they re-traced with lower lows and lower highs ever since.
That pattern can continue into pennies or zero.
In the meantime, all CTs are passed a 20 payment period with the N's hitting prospectus default 10/18/13.
Which may not matter since they were assigned as subordinated 10B issues as per the POR and sent out POR default notices in 3/2012.
So, what does it mean?
What do these securities mean in a post-BK Leahman legacy?
mojo
New article with Fuld video.
Link: http://www.cnbc.com/id/101081451#_gus
Good!
Good to have records updated with more on board.
Good luck!
mojo
No doubt, irish. Well said.
As soon as this happens, we can be brought current if not before under other conditions.
mojo
Given the implied utility of CT's in your post, irish, do you believe their is a possibility the CTs could be brought current in an unidentified 10/3/13 creditor payment?
Probability: 15% - 20%?
Exactly, irish...
In order to benefit the Senior classes with re-instatement of any creditor positions, only the CTs are necessary as most Senior creditors.
And, I think this is the point the Debtors must be dealing with:
"If we Debtors can make more money by increasing our settlements with a Creditor, why don't we, who will we involve and when?"
I think this question has already been answered multiple times and a lot of the information used to determine the hypothetical is OFF BALANCE SHEET nor identified in the POR!
Joe and a number of others post without this knowledge, like a student arguing for an "A" but really are "C"'s or "D"'s.
mojo
Thanks for posting this Steve.
This document definately provides for future wind down targets & amounts should the POR be followed to the March 2014 date in liquidation.
Together with the payouts & NOL schedules, this document provides a good summary of what would be wound down at that time.
I think of it as a schedule with updated macro economic values.
In no sense do I see the schedule as optimized necessarily.
How could the deal be optimized and with who in your opinion?
mojo
Steve,
Barclays assumed liabilities in the transaction for the Lehman US Broker-Dealer.
That is well documented.
Exactly what liabilities they are is not clear because of the dissonance Barclays, like you, chooses maintain with the question when asked.
It's old.
Good luck.
mojo
Round and round it goes, cat.
Again, Barclays can say they didn't assume debt or securities. We've heard it before in Court docs and correspondence, yet we still have questions since the liabilities assumed by Barclays have not been identified.
Whether Barclays has anything to do with the NOLs or any off-balance sheet assets or re-affirmation rights that may keep them involved with these CTs now or in the future is hard for me to say.
Maybe it will get covered with LAMCO.
Am I tired of the Carousel?
You bet! I've been on it 4 years.
But, I'm still hoping for the best.
mojo
catdaddy,
My post #27715 discusses this transaction and mentions a $2.5B liability assumption for employees coming to Barclays.
I think the $1B difference was mentioned in a Wikilinks page that I researched.
I have three (3) questions today:
1. If the CTs are the liabilities assumed by Barclays, why would Barclays let the value fall and trade them on the Greys even if Barclays wasn't going to pay their coupon for 20 quarters?
2. Will Barclays get the NOL benefit?
3. How will the scheduled default this October effect Barclays if they don't choose to bring the CTs current?
Any thoughts?
mojo
My buddy, devils goober, hasn't posted since 9/17 I think...
He's fine over at Yahoos..
mojo
catdaddy ted out cruisin'...goober
mojo
Yes, volume is low and this Board argues it is that shareholders are holding on until the divideneds are paid current or they are called.
I'm wondering who is not selling?
There aren't a lot of 5%+ holders identified in Yahoo Finance or FINRA. I'm not certain if the holding information has to be disclosed for grey or pink sheet listed stocks nor of the time requirements for the holdings.
Furthermore, my broker argues a certain pattern of trading if a stock is re-listed or re-instated by a Company.
He argues that both the volume & price action don't look like this.
I told him it was that owners aren't selling, not until POR is paid out & dividends are current or the issues are called.
Lastly, I would like to see more info on the owners and their percentages as well as plans for the post-BK legacy.
Don't confuse the ID of the Trustee or Transfer Agent as a 5%+ interest shareholder. That cake don't bake!
What else?
Like Krauthammer says in Politics,
"When the other guy is committing suicide, get out of the room!"
Good luck Joe!
mojo
circle....what?
Please stay professional.
Thank you.
Finally!
Article: Stop Blaming Lehman...
Link: http://www.thestreet.com/story/12039741/1/stop-blaming-lehman-and-banks-congress-created-the-collapse.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO
$.351 for the K's?
CTs are having a hissy over something.
thanks!
mojo
ro ro,
What reference do you have for the K 9/15/08 allocation?
Thanks.
mojo
Yes, it's .046% or 0.00046.
Still very low.
da planes...
da planes...
mojo goober
"a going concern" now?
Good.
One of the great things about the CTs is their ability to defer payments for 5 years and re-affirm and re-instate.
Now, why the hell do we still have those planes?
Could somebody tell me, please?
Harvey? Are you out of court?
Keep the real estate.
mojo goober
I counted $3.6B but not bad at all.
I don't know, rlgoober.
Good question.
I've been invested for 4 years and stand to benefit from a reasonable investment amount.
In no way do I control the amount of shares or am I in a position with the Estate to know the answers to your question.
So, I just continue to hope for the best.
mojogoober
stockbum9,
Reinstating and reaffirming the CTs is hardly a major announcement in my view.
Its more about tax credits and assuming liabilities & debt as well as market position in a new economy.
The CT prospectus and Tier 1 Capital credits are also news, but the variables are known and amounts are not hugely significant in a $679B bankruptcy proceeding exit.
I think its more about legal agreements and honoring rights of Creditors not just Debtors when both are necessary.
So, we'll see they say.
Good luck.
mojo
After seeing the update at FINRA and posting the link earlier, maybe the Ns won't continue to trade on the Greys much longer.
Joe,
I've been checking the different exchange & regulator postings for filing changes.
Today is the first day I noticed a change and to have the change at FINRA is significant.
As the Estate administrates uplistings, I have no doubt they will eventually complete all necessary filings for all related exchanges.
mojo
It looks like the Ns might be uplisted to Pink OTC Markets as per FINRA.
Updated today, but might not be trading.
Link: http://finra-markets.morningstar.com/MarketData/CompanyInfo/detail.jsp?query=0P000083A8
Good luck!
mojo
mik-lachevsky:
If you are not interested in chatter, what does the re-instatement and uplisting of CT shares mean to you?
mojo
camaro4goober,
If the recently announced BCS offering is not it, it is definately worth a debate and likely could be the case if Barclays doesn't step up and assume liabilities.
I don't have the Company information to make the determination at this time and I've been pushing the strategy be considered if not disclosed.
But, we are in the process to pay off the POR and plan for post-BK Lehman activities.
So, when they decide to go public with the information we will know.
mojo
And, if there is any doubt the British sold chemicals to Syria, here is a link:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/revealed-britain-sold-nerve-gas-2242520
mojo
camaro4goober,
It works now.
Might have been so controversial it crashed the system.
mojo
OK, so now the debate opens to this:
"If there is enough to now pay Creditors 20%+, what is the chance of reovering more for both Debtors & Creditors if the roll out of that 20%+ was in a new IPO or included upside in future business?"
If they are just liquidating, the 20%+ may be it for Creditors.
My problem isn't that we've been told recovery amounts lower than what we knew or that Barclays could pick and choose what debt & liabilities to assume in purchasing the US Broker-Dealer they wanted and a POR assumed to be rejected by Creditors.
Its more about Lehman's market position that wasn't valued because a competitor bought them.
Its kind of like the Brits selling chemicals to Syria to make chem weapons to kill their own people.
With fewer Lehman creditors around and no market for the securities, Lehman looked cheap and the same could be said about WAMU.
mojo
ines da guineagoober,
Why post something about cotton?
I only own the same shares I bought 4 years ago.
You could be burned if you sold.
The risk/reward profile clearly favors hold here.
good luck.
mojo
Why aren't market makers posting bid/ask prices on all otc pink sheet issues? Particularly the Ls?
When prices do increase, why aren't market makers asking more for the issues?
If an issue trades at $.60, why do market makers keep the ask at $.54 or $.60? Why aren't they moving the ask price up with the increasing price of the trade?
mojo
And, inesdefilia, this keeps expenses down for the companies that trade on these exchanges.
What is your point?
mojo
wamu,
You need to call your broker and talk to them about making the trade for you.
mojo