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jammy - Do you know the difference between Slander and Libel ?
And it isn't Libel if it's true.
WTM - Apologista .
I blame Management !
They are supposed to be MANAGING : microeconomics factors, politics, difficulties with launching new technologies/businesses, delays in government subsidies in support of this nascent hydrogen economy, etc.
Steve - Georgia, FFI, Linde, I call it LYING by omission .
Wall Street Hates companies who do this.
PLUG will be PUNISHED today for LYING.
Biggest stock losers
"Shares of Plug Power (NASDAQ:PLUG) slid roughly 14% after the company's Q2 loss widened. The company has clear short-term goals to improve profitability in the second half of 2023, and it is "evaluating several financing options with counterparties, including but not limited to, the [U.S. Department of Energy] Loan Program, strategic project investment partners, and corporate debt facilities."
Key Points for me from the earnings call:
- Record losses
- Every Major Capital Project for PLUG is delayed 6-12 months (at least)\
- Georgia is producing hydrogen, but no liquification
- They are "learning as they go"
- Hydrogen production is complex and time and labor consuming
- People in Georgia don't work construction when its hot (we didn't know this 3 years ago)
- The Georgia facility is behind schedule and over budget
- Hydrogen is expensive to produce
- PLUG won't break even until Q-4
Thank you Harry, We already knew this was coming.
Note : $236 million LOSS as well. That ratio can't last for very long.
jammy - Andy Marsh : "I am able to drive from the Atlantic Coast in Maine all the way to the Pacific in California in a hydrogen vehicle on the Hydrogen Highway."
jammy - Andy lies.
A 20% drop in the share price on earnings is a pretty clear signal that the market is disappointed.
The rest of the week / month will give us a clear direction for the future.
I am not that optimistic.
WTM & Banger - Sorry about HYZN. Let's see how she ends August.
WTM - How could HYZN ever go below $1.00 in the first place?
And the triggers for Delisting are much more difficult than for relisting.
As for today's debacle , "I TOLD YOU SO.".
WTM - Can OLIN supply 100% of our Hydrogen Needs? If WE can produce hydrogen and OLIN can too, why are we still buying hydrogen from third parties? If we can make it ourselves, why pay someone else?
WTM - But we are short Hydrogen and having to pay top dollar to others for hydrogen supplies.
We are told that hydrogen from the Georgia plant is cheap, so we should be using it instead of others.
Andy told us in a BIG PR Event that the Georgia plant was finished, he surely wouldn't mislead anyone again.
And if the plant is running why isn't it commissioned?
mik- Certainly Andy would never mislead shareholders, and I am certain that he has learned his lesson and he would never over promise and then under deliver. And I'm sure the Georgia plant is fully operational and running at 100%, because PLUG is short Green Hydrogen, so making cheap hydrogen is much better than buying expensive hydrogen from others. Right WTM?
Is it just me, or is HYZN getting beaten up today ?
Why ? Is it the Quarterly Report? Are some people disappointed with the numbers?
I think that this Quarter will be a HUGE Beat on Earnings.
Andy told us last quarter that we wouldn't see some of the Q-1 Revenues reported until Q-2.
So we could have Double Revenues.
Andy also told us that lower natural gas prices are a positive on hydrogen costs.
And with the Georgia plant fully up and running at Full Capacity, we should see record revenues, and close to Zero Losses.
Revenues UP / Costs DOWN means This will be the best Q to date.
jammy - Wrong Board. You are making me look like a genius .
WRONG AGAIN. I'm still on holiday in Europe, not so early here.
Many people focus their comments on companies. That's what these boards are for.
Some people focus and bash other people instead of companies.
That's NOT what these boards are for.
Some people focus their comments on companies. That's what these boards are for.
Some people focus and bash other people instead of companies.
That's NOT what these boards are for.
UGLY !
Another Interesting Article:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cost-headwinds-mar-plug-powers-171200347.html
While expanding customer base and a rise in the number of sites with fuel contracts are likely to have aided Plug Power's (PLUG) Q2 earnings, high costs and la...
Banger - Note that the Olin process does not produce green hydrogen.
WTM & jammy - Here is an interesting read:
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4624921-plug-power-history-of-underdelivering-and-lack-of-tangible-results-raise-caution
WTM, most times I do add a link, on site where I can.
There must be another earnings leak and it doesn't look good.
WTM - Most boards don't allow links, so I produce a universal message and then go back and customize for each forum.
This time you beat me to the punch. But I am used to being falsely accused by you.
Banger - Selling False Hope?
If you can't get electricity to the demand site you can't make expensive hydrogen.
And if you have to liquify and ship liquid hydrogen Bio Diesel or Bio Methane wins.
It's called economics.
HOWEVER[color=red][/color] In using 3 TIMES more electricity, it is doubtful that Hydrogen Fuel Cells in Heavy-Duty vehicles will not be economic and prohibitively Expensive.
Steve - Yes. Fortunately, I had been scaling down my Siemens, but might look to add in the Fall, which is why it's still on my list.
I have faith in Siemens ability to manage their Alt Energy business better than nearly every other company in the sector. Like JM, Siemens is VERY Profitable in other sectors (Medical, Engineering, Power Generation) which BUFFERS a hit in one or two segments.
PLUG doesn't have the diversity in income streams that JM and Siemens do, and PLUG certainly doesn't have the management.
Mac- "How do you hold Marsh totally responsible for the fall from 70 if he didn’t get it there."
Ounce it got there (that's the hard part) maintaining those levels is much easier..... BUT .....
Andy DUMPED $35 million of his Stock. A rule is if a CEO is Dumping his stock, so should you.
Andy Did a massive SECONDARY, diluting existing shareholders. This cut the share price by more than 25%.
Andy and Paul got caught cooking the books. We were told not to trust 2 years worth of PLUG numbers.
YES Mac, I do hold ANDY responsible, and so do the analysts.
Steve - Of Course, and I have done so many times before.
JM, Bosch, Siemens, Linde, AP, Air Liquide, Amazon
WTM - Are you comparing Andy Marsh and Elon Musk ? That's RICH.
Andy , Sanjay, and others have repeatedly underestimated several projects, GA probably being the most egregious . PLUG's inability to execute and meet goals is systemic and the best reason why they need to go.
That fact that Elon missed a projection doesn't exonerate Andy or PLUG. Two wrongs don't make a right.
As I have stated many times: Hydrogen is very dangerous and difficult. PLUG being a neophyte in BULK hydrogen are going to miss targets and deadlines .
Mac - Did you answer your own question?
Question : "Does marsh get the credit for getting the stock price over 70 ??
Answer : "That hype you can put on the analyst they put out upgrade after upgrade. Every time plug made a deal here came an upgrade. Most all the hydrogen stocks were inflated not just plug.
So, No. Andy doesn't deserve any credit . It was the analysts.
Banger - 3 TIMES more green Electricity!
What does this do to the comparative economics ?
OUCH !
Fortescue is continuing to test hydrogen mining truck while admitting the hydrogen option requires 3 TIMES the renewable electricity of the battery option.
Fortescue will be starting a extended test of both a FC and battery mining truck to the test this year to improve the efficiency of both. Fellow mining giants Rio Tinto and BHP have already indicated a preference for batteries over hydrogen according to John Mulcahy(principal adviser on surface mining and technology) and Anna Wiley (BHP’s vice president for Australian planning and technical functions).
Fortescue is continuing to test hydrogen mining truck while admitting the hydrogen option requires 3 TIMES the renewable electricity of the battery option.
Fortescue will be starting a extended test of both a FC and battery mining truck to the test this year to improve the efficiency of both. Fellow mining giants Rio Tinto and BHP have already indicated a preference for batteries over hydrogen according to John Mulcahy(principal adviser on surface mining and technology) and Anna Wiley (BHP’s vice president for Australian planning and technical functions).
Mac - Yes. And it was 100% Hype!
Hey jammy - Have a look back at August and September on 2019 when PLUG was under $3.00.
I told everybody here to buy before the MEGA-Symposium. PLUG went from UNDER $3.00 to $70+.
Where were you with your B.S. then?
And I have nothing to add? Compare your B.S. insults (I can't call them posts) to what I have added.
When I said "Sell" when the CEO Dumped his shares, was that manipulative.?
When I said "Sell" when PLUG Dumped a bunch of diluting shares on the market, was that manipulative?
When I said "Sell" when PLUG was caught cooking the books was that manipulative?
People here found out about the accounting issues from ME. People on this board found out about FFI leaving from ME. People on the board found out about the GA delays from ME. Before the company made any announcements.
Why don't you show us all of your contributions to the knowledge of this board, jammy?
You shouldn't take you very long.
jammy - Thank you. Every one of your posts makes me look better and better.