Me and the other porkers have taken a better look at this filing.

This statement must have come from the beef crowd:

"The 20MT processor is being meticulously assembled and each assembly process is being photographed and logged so that the processes and procedures for the final operating unit can modeled, independently tested, and the put into production quickly where plastic discards are readily available. Management believes, based upon prototype testing to date, that each large processor will process 20 metric tons of plastic in a continuous operation.
"

That is BS. They do have to hire contractors to build the units, but that is going to be driven by drawings and exact plans. There is no other way. First of all, there is no way to estimate/ bid on the job. Photos are used to convey status in progress reports and maybe to survey safety practices... not to build anything.

and this:

"At this time the Company will continue forward with formalizing its plans to take the P2O process to market. Leading the business planning process is a group of professionals who have experience in developing business operations in a licensing and franchise environment as well as vast experience real estate development and permitting.

The P2O effort will be lead by Robert G. Shoemaker, Geoffrey C. Weber, and Richard M. Haber and they are actively engaged in site selection as well as recruiting other professionals who have participated in nationwide launches of company owned units, licenses, joint ventures and franchises.

"

what he is doing is NOT real estate. Different ballgame...

anyway... I gotta go..

actually I thought the numbers for the subs (Pakit and Javaco) were pretty good. The real problem is the cash drain on P2O without the delivery. And they still appear to be in trouble on the permitting issue. And it seems as if they need to assemble #2 and #3 to be viable and they don't have the cash...

I will re-read tomorrow and get back.. oink.

give me a minute... I must consult with the other fellows in my pen...

if that is the case, he could be paid from when the company started.. ROFL>>>

pretty soon it will be running on vapor.

Except that it has almost no gas in the tank....

The Canadian permit is nothing but a carrot intended to keep the investors optimistic and give them something to look forward to... it is not transferrable to a P2O business...

and pork tastes great from the barbecue!!!

Well, I know it looks good to the uninitiated, but I think it is quite lame. They either missed a very basic opportunity with placing P2O at the blending site, or they way underestimated what it took to get proper permitting, or both. And they may still not know if they think that the blending site permit can be used for P2O (a totally different process).

If you are trying to tell this board that they can immediately set up shop with a P2O processor on the blending site I would say that you are dead wrong. I would ask for proof. THe purpose of permitting is to control pollution. THere is no way you can change the basic product or output and use the same permit. It may be a modification or change to an existing permit, but the process is the same... testing etc, as has been done in NY.

Conversely, if you are indeed correct, than JBI has wasted an incredible amount of time and money on the whole NY setup.

Either way.. hardly a victory or good news..

the blending site emissions would be completely different than the P2O emissions...

I concur.

I guess they could simply assemble Units #2 and 3 at the blending site.. true, there is no big relocation cost, only some shipping charges for the parts for #2 aqnd #3.

so you agree with me that y ou don't see the C of A at the blending site being applicable to P2O at this time?

See my post to Scion. I am asking if the C of A is applicable to P2O manufacturing. I would think not. The transfer of the C of A would just be part of he transfer of ownership. I don't think that it would allow them to operate a P2O plant on the blending plant site.

And if that is the case.. the statement in the filing is rather misleading. It gives the wrong impression that they could just set up shop on the blending site with no further delays.

does the C of A allow them to manufacture pyrolysis oil (utilize the P2O process) or is it just for use as a blending site? I would have guessed that the C of A would just allow them to use it as a blending site. I would have to still do the same testing to use the C of A for P2O.

I think that the intent of the para. is to say to investors that they could simply use the existing C of A for P2O. I am skeptical of that.

Did it ever occur to you that there is considerable cost in relocating the one operatin gunit to the blending site? Heck I worked on a relocation project, it is almost as expensive as buying brand new equipment. That is a strategic choice (buy/ relocate),,,,

So this was something that was in their possession all along, an Air Permit, yet they have spent about 8 months occupying everybody's mind with this NY Air Permit, and you are happy about that? You see that as progress? If it is no big deal in Canada, it should not be a big deal in the US either, has that ever occurred to you?

This C of A business in Ontario is illuminating. That blending site would have had to have that permit in order to operate as a blending site. The fact that JBI did not think about this before is incredible.

This supports what I have been saying all along that the permitting is a minor issue which has occupied far too much attention of investors. I have seen a C of A granted for many different things in the places i have worked. It is a basic requirement to do certain work, or else you have to rely on (and pay) someone else to the work for you. This C of A was either easily granted to the blending site because they at one time already had it, or it required minimal paperwork.

The fact that JB put it up on a slide and made it important is a joke at this point, seeing as now he has the brilliant idea to simply use the blending site, which was an afterthought in the first place. Clearly he underestimated the importance and difficulty in obtaining a C of A or Air Permit or whatever you want to call it and it is now jeopardizing his business, so he is looking for alternatives...

I did not read the filing in it's entirety, but I did note that they have a whopping like 300k left in cash... clearly they are at a standstill without further financing. Spent 1.8M in the quarter...

They should have been THINKING of the blending site when they purchased the NY site... poor planning.

WHAT masterplan?

Your post is all over the place. I never said for people to trust me, I said directly that people should CONTACT DONNA.

<Anyway I am not going to call her, I am sure she has enough calls... any interested investor can call if they want and ask exactly that question... what does "Failed" mean. If I had alot of shares i would investigate that.. >

so contact Donna. GO ahead.. MAKE MY DAY. JB should be able to relate to that phrase.. LOLOLOLOL>.

And you are being tangential. If JBI chose the location for this plant beause it is close to Islechem.. that is just stupid. We are talking about a long-term operating plant. Islechem is just providing some engineering support. You don't build a plant intended to last for 5 years close to the engineers that help build or design it. Getting across the border is easy.

Actually now that you mention it, the blending site is the logical location to locate the plant. I am not going to go back and locate the information, but the NY plant was donated or sold to JBI by some investor. Again, impulse thinking instead of proper planning. I think that is one of the PRs.

"That is just your guess"? You bet it is... Permitting is probably one of the most important factors in locating plants. That and access to feedstock. Permitting is one of the potentially most costly issues and difficult challenges. It has to be thought of right up front...

Looks like a series of quick short-term decisions driven by opportunities provided by investors with dubious motives, not a proper business plan.

Christ I am smart!

I don't know if she would corroborate what you are saying. Anyway I am not going to call her, I am sure she has enough calls... any interested investor can call if they want and ask exactly that question... what does "Failed" mean. If I had alot of shares i would investigate that..

Any investor should.. but trust me that this kind of investigation prior to building a plant and decisions not to proceed are normal. If a company knew what they were doing the fact that a Solid Waste permit is needed would not come as a surprise... the fact that some kind of a Solid Waste permit might be required for a plant that is supposedly going to process 20T/ day of plastic covered with any kind of INDUSTRIAL WASTE on it should not be a surprise to anybody.

These other companies probably realized the mess they were getting into and decided not to proceed..

Tell me, why does alot of the competition situate their plants on landfill sites?? because they already have full permitting... they can just piggyback off of the existing permit... likewise my company had their plants on customer site... smart thinking. As opposed to setting up plant in a building on an industrial property that happens to be donated by some shareholder.. lol..

what goes around comes around...

Well I am going to trust that the readers of this board have a brain. You are not explaining how it was that they failed. Failed would mean that they actually had a stack test and it did not pass. That is not what the DEC said. They said that some other folks had discussions about doing pyrolysis and no one actually built anything.

To me that is just normal, but then again I have 5 recent years experience on these large projects. It is normal to do intensive investigation prior to embarking on this kind of expenditure. In the normal course of business one would approach the regulatory bodies and find out exactly what is required, a these companies did.

And projects get canceled at any stage of their development. At first a general estimate accurate to maybe 25% is developed. It is then refined until it is accurate to 5%, with periodic go/ no go analysis being conducted. Then a final go/ no go decision is made. After that point there is no turning back without major cost, as equipment is ordered and dimensional (detailed) design is started.

So talking to a governing body like the DEC as part of that process is normal. Not proceeding because the ROI is not there (20%-30%) is normal.

When we see excellent profits from JBI, then you can say the others "Failed" because they were not profitable. How about that?

Right now JBI is down several million dollars on plant with no return as of yet.

where do you get this "failed" from? They just decided not to proceed after doing some fact-finding. Maybe it will turn out that JBII should have done that if they realize that they need a full SW permit or something. Where is the "failure"? Getting a permit is just knowing the requirements and doing the paperwork.

well... it seems as if .0008 is the bottom here... because that is the price that those 3B shares were issued at.... but I don't think I can buy these shares at my bank.... what a POS this stock is.

well... I disagree and furthermore do not know how what is posted here can have any effect one way or the other. I for one would love to see this business idea succeed. I do believe that it has not been analyzed properly in terms of profitability and been presented to investors in a manner that conveys that analysis and forethought. Perhaps inexperience on the part of the company.

What was the item that caused the biggest drop in price?? THe restatement... what does that convey?? what I have been telling you is not true.. especially financials..... after that 4.00 PIPE...

actually I was surprised as well. I thought missed time frames would have caused a more gradual drop.

My explanation:

at 7 - there was:

- Time,... and...
- Money.....and
- Expectations...
bearing in mind that TIme Is Money.


Now at .60 there is

- really no more TIme...
- Money situation tenuous... =====> RISK!!!

and still great expectations..


which is what this kind of investing is all about... timing..

that is why I prefer to wait until a company is more established.

Not really because investors do not think that JBII wil be any less profitable, those expectations have not changed.. just it has become very RISKY. IMO.

it boils down to that validity of that basic assumption doesn't it? I have thought since my very first posting here that those numbers are FUBAR. I believe the origin of that expression was the movie "Tango and Cash"... just watched it recently and heard it used. I think that Sly and what's his name coined the phrase.

No matter how big "what" may be?

not by definition no... there are different players in the game, and it is useful to keep it in mind...

A business school professor explained it this way:

There are 4 kinds of traders:

- buy-and hold investors
- Short-term speculators
- hedgers
- arbitragers

Not that all apply to JBII, but the first 2 apply to almost any stock..... and they are all "shareholders"..

my gut feel as well...

In charting terms, all volume means is that it is likely to continue in the direction that it is headed, be it up or down. It is a basic indicator. There are a couple of statistical indicators that use volume to attempt to predict price movement. A couple are the RSI (Relative Strength Index) and the MFI (Money Flow Index). Both vary between 70 (Overbought - gonna go down) and 30 (OverSold - gonna go up). If you look them up you will see that they use volume and Price (where in the trading range the action happened).

I use volume and these indicators to help with timing. If a stock goes up for 3 days in a row on news... and the volume on the last day of the 3 is low... maybe a good idea to wait for a pullback.. likewise the other way. And I will wait until the RSI/ MFI indicates a buying or selling opp..

Here is the chart for JBII:



I have found that the MFI for these OTC stocks is predictive. Not sure why. Usually, these indicators are useless because by the time they signal a change in price movement, the movement has already occurred.

The latest drop was forecast by the MFI clearly. Then the price remained level, while the MFI started to climb again. in the absence of all else, I would have said that the MFI would become overbought again (70) and then signal another potential drop.

In the last few days it has changed direction. I can only assume that it is because of the impending earnings report... we have speculation on earnings...

To give some idea of interest rates in Canada...

6% and change is the Prime Lending Rate. That is the lowest possible rate that a financial institution will give a loan out at. They add a premium to that based on risk for a loan.

If you walk into a bank with healthy equity in property, you will get that rate or maybe less.

If you walk in and ask for a loan unsecured, the rate will vary from 8-10%.

Rates will then vary upwards based on risk (and greed...).

So JB is willing to give 6% on this loan... good luck to him.

yes... if the company were to be successful that would make it a 20-25% return at a buck or 2 a share... they are like warrants on stock...

6% is a reasonable rate for mild risk. I think that JBII is high risk... I would have expected 10%. Frankly, who would give them 250k for a measly 6% return at this stage of development?

I have seen companies in trouble get bank loans from Sched B banks, etc at 10% in Canada. If he is seeking individual private investors. I would think higher than 10% to get them interested..

They probably can't do more PIPES because it would dilute the shares to an unacceptable level and would represent an about-face that even JBI can't stand.

And yes they likely cannot get bank financing (Troy aren't you a banker? you should tell us).

IMO, this is going to be a hard sell. Shares at least give the promise of wealth... but for 6%? Who is going to take the risk?

Man if he gets Buyers for this he had better have a solid plan going forward, plus contracts in place for sales... forget this barter stuff, that is bush league to me.

Well then they are effectively out of money at this point. If they were burning 1M/qtr as of the last published financials and had 2M in the bank, they would be out of cash in 2 more quarters, which is January, exactly as I suspected.

So that is the reason why they have not constructed processors #2 and #3, they don't have any money to do so. Has nothing to do with permits. They should/ could apply the permit to all 3. Saying that they "can't" construct #2 and #3 becasuswe of permitting is simply not accurate.

6% is not that cheap. I have seen this kind of financing at 10%.

Good input Troy.

ok thanks. that helps me to understand the original post much better...

trade with myself? well that would be just WEIRD

how does 2500-share lots coincide with "wash trade". I thought wash-trading was timing-related.. getting around the 30-day rule...

thanks..

actually, processing Oil sands goop costs about 20-30/barrel (to get a barrel of crude). vs uplift cost of 5$ for an established well... also shale oil etc. all really the same stuff.