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A few comments and questions about SLJB:
The price of SLJB has been at or less than $0.001 for several months. There is no indication it will go higher any time soon, and plenty of indications is will either cease trading completely, or go lower. The daily volume is usually less than 250,000, although it occasionally tops 1 million. If a trader times buys and sells just right, she might make $0.0005 per share. I think this is being generous, but let's just say that's how much there is to be made.
If an entire day's volume of SLJB trades multiplied by $0.0005 profit went into the pocket of our trader, she would make $125. Let's say she has a cheap trading account and only has to pay $5 in commission. Now we're down to $120. If she lives in the USA, she will probably have to cough up about 33% of this to Uncle Sam. So now she has $80 left. That comes out to $400 per week.
In order to make $100.000 trading SLJB, which is the target of some posters on this board, our trader would have to repeat her performance, day in day out, for 250 weeks, or almost 5 years. Not very likely, and the opportunity cost (i.e., spending all her time trying to trade SLJB at just the right time instead of doing real investing) would outweigh any benefit she derived from her foray into SLJB.
The point here (yes, there is a point), is that making a substantial, or even adquate, return by trading SLJB is more or less impossible.
Notice I have referred to her as a trader, not an investor. Investors pick companies based on long term attractiveness (i.e. growth). Traders pick companies based on share price volatility (and adequate liquidity). SLJB has none.
There is also an ethical question regarding trading SLJB. Simply put, SLJB is a scam. Is it ethical to profit from a scam if you are not the original perpetrator of the scam? If your actions are simply trading SLJB (let's not even address pumping it on message boards), is it entirely ethical to make money from trading SLJB when you know it was never anything but a pump & dump scam?
Also, Petar Vucicevich made sworn statements that he illegally sold shares of SLJB. Do you think he has stopped doing so? Or is he still, clandestinely, dumping shares of SLJB whenever he can in order to squeeze a few last dollars (Canadian or otherwise) out of the SLJB pump & dump scam? If he is, is it still ethical to trade SLJB?
Let's discuss.
There is no evidence now, nor has there ever been, that shorting of SLJB (if there ever was any shorting at all) has had a material effect on SLJB's share price.
SLJB's share price is where it is today because the market at large knows SLJB is a scam.
Since you now say SLJB is a scam, do you think it always was a scam? Or did SLJB just become a scam at some point? Which point?
In this case, SLJB has severe credibility problems. As in SLJB has NO credibility. As has been mentioned many times before, there is no evidence that SLJB is not a scam, but there is ample evidence that SLJB is (nothing but) a scam.
I suspect this will lead to many difficulties for any shareholder to get any return on their SLJB investment, other than tax loss write offs.
There is most certainly a credibility problem with SLJB, as indicated in their press releases.
Therefore, it sounds like you get a choice as to which path to follow in the future: Dogged support of a company which could not complete an audit for over two years, has no business at all and investing in whose stock has resulted in millions in losses for hundreds or thousands of people... or reasonable evaluation of the facts. Perhaps your choice is not the correct one.
Certainly all the false PRs released by SLJB will be hard to explain as anything but a scam.
Subsequent statements of allegations by the OSC indicate that SLJB never acquired, reverse merged, or otherwise had claim to Sulja Ontario. The likelihood of SLJB never having been more than an empty Nevada based shell is very very high.
11. Beginning on or about February 6, 2006 and continuing until in or about April 2006, Loftwerks issued press releases claiming it would merge with Sulja Bros. Building Supplies Ltd., (“Sulja Ontario”) and with Consultech Management Inc. (“Consultech”), another company controlled by Vucicevich at all material times. The press releases issued during this time claimed that the merging companies were negotiating, and would be entering into, large and profitable urban renewal contracts in the United States. The press releases also described Sulja Ontario as a division of Consultech and Steven Sulja as an employee of Consultech.
12. In fact, Steven Sulja was not an employee of Consultech, Sulja Ontario was not a division of Consultech, and Consultech was not involved with merger discussions with Loftwerks.
21. Vucicevich and DeVries continued to issue press releases throughout February to April, 2006 announcing, among other things, that Steve Sulja was Chief Executive Officer of Sulja Brothers Specialty Building Materials, Ltd., a company which appears never to have been incorporated, and that Loftwerks would merge with variously named Sulja companies, some of which did not exist.
22. In fact, Loftwerks never did merge with Sulja Ontario, or any other Sulja company, but, in the end, it simply changed its name to Sulja Nevada as set out in paragraph one of these Allegations.
23. After Loftwerks changed its name to Sulja Nevada, press releases were issued between April through November, 2006, by Vucicevich and DeVries, which spoke of present and future business opportunities from which Sulja Nevada would earn large revenues. The press releases issued by Sulja Nevada contained misrepresentations made intentionally or otherwise about the revenue potential of Sulja Nevada. They were part of a scheme to sell Sulja Nevada shares into the market to profit from the misrepresentations about Sulja Nevada in breach of ss. 122, 126.1 and 126.2 of the Act.
Does that mean, in your view, a two plus year cease trade order is not a real action?
Does this mean, in your view, that all of the evidence presented by the OSC is not verifiable?
Also, does the fact that SLJB has never presented on whit of evidence in support of it being a valid company and not a PUMP&DUMP SCAM mean nothing to you?
Can you cite another situation where charges and allegations were not answered, AT ALL, for over two years?
The lack of cause and effect (or any) logic in that post only reinforces my view: Supporters of SLJB have NO verifiable evidence that SLJB is anything but a SCAM; nor do they have any evidence SLJB has any assets, revenues or operations.
Since you didn't post a link, there must not be any verifiable evidence that paid bashers have had any involvement whatsoever with SLJB.
Here's a little guidance for you, hockmire: People don't misinterpret their own posts. What I posted was intended solely as a hypothetical.
If you claim otherwise, back it up with proof... and simply wanting something to be one way because it suits your purpose is not proof.
Moreover, parroting others' posts and rearranging the words is not debate, it's deception.
Ripnrob, which business did SLJB have two years ago? Some revenue sharing deal with Marketwire Canada? SLJB sure didn't have any real operations...
Just to be clear and not deceptive: What I posted was a hypothetical, as I SAID BEFORE, not an allegation.
Just to be clear, here's who wrote what:
DisinterestedOne: Furthermore, I never claimed there were paid pumpers.
hockmir: So your claims of paid pumpers is baseless and unsubstantiated?
What's the matter slojon, feeling guilty? I never once said you did this. Why did you assume I meant you? Have you done something like it in the past? You will be waiting a long time for that apology.
I am personally offended by scams. I am equally offended by those who, though initially victims of the scam, become willing participants in the scam in hopes of somehow profiting or recouping their losses.
So I post the truth where the scam is discussed.
There is overwhelming evidence that SLJB is nothing but a scam.
There is no evidence that it is not. Moreover, there is no evidence at all that SLJB (the empty Nevada shell) is or was the victim of scam artists.
I think PV is the big fish here (perhaps with a big assist from Andrew deVries... what became of him?). The authorities probably want to nail PV more than SS, so may be playing ball with the Suljas.
Plea bargain?
Anything else make you think SLJB is not a scam?
Hockmir: Most of us have answered your questions ad nauseum. Time for you to answer the questions put to you.
Do you think SLJB is/was a scam?
What do you think the probability of there being or having been material shorting of SLJB?
On what (evidence) do you base your opinion? I have seen ample evidence that SLJB is nothing but a scam, and have not seen anything to the contrary.
Hi Frank. Has your view of SLJB changed in the last year?
Do you believe SLJB is/was a scam?
I have diligently studied SLJB. That's why I know it's a scam and always has been.
Which statements by the RCMP, exactly, are you referring to? Save us all a lot of round and round, and just post a link along with a quote of the statements you mean.
Unfortunately there is something... a SCAM! That's all.
Note that in the second paragraph the RCMP is careful to spell out the difference between SLJB (Sulja) and the business that actually had operations, employees and revenue (Sulja Brothers). Throughout the PR, they make it clear that SLJB and the Ontario Lumber yard were separate entities. The second paragraph stated categorically that SLJB was owned by Sulja Brothers, not the other way around.
The PR went on to say that Sulja Brothers was depleted of its assets and went out of business. So now we are talking about two entities with zero revenue.
If you don't have it, how can you tell he's quoting it verbatim?
"The investigation began following a referral from the Ontario Securities Commission ("OSC"). The charges relate to allegations that between July 31, 2006 and December 31, 2006, VUCICEVICH orchestrated and participated in the market manipulation of the shares of Sulja Bros. Building Supplies Ltd. ("Sulja"). Sulja is owned by Sulja Brothers Building Supplies Ltd. ("Sulja Brothers"), a small lumberyard located in Harrow, Ontario. During the time the alleged fraud was perpetrated, Sulja was a publicly traded company quoted on the Pink Sheets in the United States under the symbol "SLJB"."
This is the opposite of what hockmir is claiming.
You have more posts left today. Since you said he's quoting verbatim, I assume you can give us a link to the PR.
I've done enough due diligence on SLJB to know it's a scam. I have never seen any evidence to the contrary.. not one whit, including today... despite (clearly erroneous) claims that SLJB is not a scam.
It's quite obvious you are not able to substantiate your claim about the RCMP and SLJB. There is no reason whatsoever for you not to post a link to prove what you say, unless what you said was false.
Show everyone a link to the release, then. That should settle the issue.
If International Trading is selling a truck, it did not belong to SLJB. The truck may have belonged to Sulja Brothers Lumber yard, but SLJB never had any assets (or operations, or employees, or revenue).
SLJB's ONLY business is scamming. SLJB never had any operations, assets or income (other than the money stolen from people who thought they were buying a part of the Ontario lumber company). Business as Usual for SLJB would mean continuing a Pump&Dump scam.
You have not posted any proof. You have only referred to a thread on an internet message board; that's certainly not proof. I have asked you to post a link that PROVES your claim.
I asked for a link to prove what you claimed. All you gave was a link to another message on this board. That's no proof. Moreover, there was no indication that anything that might have been done was done out of spite or an effort to harm Steve Sulja's current businesses.
I ask again: Where is the proof of your claim?
Also, I ask again, what do you think is the probability of there being or having been material shorting of SLJB? Still waiting on that answer as well...
Show a link to prove that people have alerted authorities in order to damage Steve Sulja's his other businesses.
It's only your opinion that having SLJB be re-registered is in the interest of SLJB bagholders. You understand that, right hockmir?
Keeping a company that is a scam alive would not seem to be in the interest of anyone except the scammer. If Steve lets the registration on SLJB expire, he will be helping many who have taken large losses in SLJB, such as yourself, to be able to write off those losses in one lump instead of over several years.
Fast tracking SLJB to being ineligible to trade would be one of the best things Steve Sulja could do for shareholders. In that case, they could write off their folly in one fell swoop, instead of $3k/year. Maybe by allowing SLJB to die as quickly as possible, SS is doing a service for the bagholders.
You're wrong there. Proving the link exists should be much easier (proving a negative is usually hard, if even possible). Since SLJB made the claims of a connection to Wessal, and SLJB later said not to believe anything they said before, the burden of proof is clearly upon SLJB.
That's all.
How's your estimate of the probability of there being or having been material naked shorting of SLJB going? Will you ever be able to provide your estimate?
SLJB continues to be a SCAM!
CAVEAT INVESTOR!
Since SLJB issued a press release in January 2007 that stated none of their prior press releases should be believed, I would say the burden of proof is with SLJB and it's supporters.
C'mon, hock, you were scammed out of your money by some PUMP&DUMP con artists. Most of the other posters here have demonstrated the maturity and integrity to acknowledge that much.