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I wasn't too far off with saying fully diluted will be 300M was I??? On Monday, this thing is going to drop like a wh@r^'s dress on prom night.
IR won't give any indication as to what the CURRENT O/S share count is (only what was presented as of the last 10-Q) or what the potential fully diluted share count is.
I called the TA and they couldn't/wouldn't tell me.
That is great but for Magna to take over debt payments, you can be assured, they took over majority interest of the company. It sure does beat filing chapter 11 though!
Since they haven't released the terms of all share issuances, assumptions have to be made. What assumptions did I make that you feel are unreasonable or too harsh?
I clarified by saying I meant fully diluted O/S. And you tell me what assumptions of mine relied on faulty logic? No penny stock on the OTC that is in default on its debt is going to be able to raise money above the then present market value price.
I would say it is probably 300M fully diluted;that is, the outstanding share count isn't that high right now (just yet) but after you factor in the convertible debt and recent equity that was raised as announced in the press release today, its well north of 150M....$1M in equity and convertible debt was sold in the past week when the stock was around $.01. The stock and convertible debt likely were issued at say a 25% discount to the low, so call it $.0075 share each, so that would be 133M shares alone, not to mention the conversion feature of the preferred stock and how many shares were issued to note holders to get forebearances.
Is the fully diluted shares outstanding 300M? 500M? No one is even going to try to guess - everyone is just buying without consideration???
Is the fully diluted shares outstanding 300M? 500M? No one is even going to try to guess - everyone is just buying without consideration???
Does anyone have any estimates on what the fully diluted shares outstanding may be after taking account the preferred stock raises, etc.? TIA.
SANT is nowhere near being eligible to meet the listing criteria for a listing on one of the two Nasdaq exchanges or the NYSE MKT (formerly the AMEX).
"Losing your share quantity" via a reverse split does NOT reduce your total gain potential. If that logic were sound, then the more a stock did a forward split, then the more forward splits a stock did, the more a stock would go up. That sill logic worked for a little while during the tech boom but that is all. If forward splits actually increased upside potential then BRK, AAPL, GOOG and other high priced stocks would forward split all the time.
oh yeah, drano??? Sorry to the people who bought into the hype. I don't care what the company claims to have - if its BB stock that has an RSI of 90, its going to tank imminently.
which brokerages have shares to short on CTIX? TIA.
Do you remember where that was? Their PR said the 24th:
Santeon Announces Reverse Stock Split And Other Corporate Actions
12:33p ET December 17, 2012 (PR NewsWire) Santeon Group, Inc. (OTC: SANT, "Santeon" - News) today announced it will effect a reverse stock split of one for four hundred (1:400) with an anticipated effective date of December 24, 2012, subject to FINRA approval.
Why hasn't this traded reverse-split adjusted yet? Is Santeon still awaiting the approval of the reverse split from FINRA or what?
John, it appears as though you are becoming emotionally attached to your investment. Do you know how long a typical financial re-statement takes? 6 months would be a very ambitious timeframe; I wouldn't be surprised to see it go into 2014. If this company can sell off some assets QUICK, this thing will be a steal down here. If they can't, they will need a lender to step up for them big time as with the current gray sheet situation and plummeting stock price, there's no way they will be able to pull off an equity financing. Hopefully they avoid chapter 11 but the lack of any positive news out of the company since the initial hammer dropped in late November isn't a good sign.
The accounting errors/fraud occured under the ex-CEO's watch, no? I can put out a bid to buy this company for $1,000 per share - but if I am not credible and the board of directors thinks there's no way I will be able to finance the deal, they will reject it flat. It doesn't mean the value is worth more than $1,000 per share.
These buyout offers are BS. I bought some KITD in the last half hour as a trade, but am already regretting doing so. It appears as though the company will have to file for chapter 11 protection - the question is, will the stock run before that???
its a great price in the .003s or .004s, but after the reverse split, you will see some crazy swings on a stock with less than 1.2M shares outstanding so always keep some dry powder available, imo...
Hi Miggs, I think Santeon is a good, growing company - they have top-notch clients who speak highly of their skills, but a good company doesn't mean it's a good investment(/stock). They finally got their books in order and now appear to be focused on actually increasing shareholder value (aka the stock price). Thus far, they've failed miserably at that, but it's way too early to call this thing. A couple of sizeable and no major dilution and this thing is off to the races. Let's hope 2013 is better for SANT shareholders than 2012 was.
Tech, I said "2/3rds of them create value only for the company that is acquired"
You said:
"I am noticing from your posts that you tend to issue BIG, generalizing statements such as: there is only one valuation model and M&A never produce any value to the parent/acquiring company. While you can find cases that fit these examples, that does not negate the existence of many successes."
Where did I EVER say that acquisitions NEVER create value? Either you need to learn how to read better, or quit manipulating what I say - you pick.
disgruntled ex employees weren't selling....how do you think the company/board of directors received over 50% of the shares outstanding to approve the reverse split, authorized share change, and stock option plan. Here's a hint: ex-insiders own 20% of this thing!! Add those in with Ash's shares and you have a majority...
Don't think that the "disgruntled ex employees" are anything but closely involved in this thing still.
Tech, do you know the statistics on acquisitions? 2/3rds of them create value only for the company that is acquired; 2/3rds destroy wealth. SANT isn't going to do a bunch of dilutive equity raises, but a wealth destructive/dilutive acquisition is a distinct possibility.
alian you ain't getting rid of me that easily. See ya back at $5 after the split (after it briefly hits $1 first imo)...
I wish it was but this is a typical penny stock!! just have to wait for another email campaign/pump and dump to be able to sell into.
alian, do you have any clue about listing requirements for Nasdaq? If so, you know SANT is nowhere near eligible to be listed on the Nasdaq Capital Market (the smaller cap version of the two Nasdaq exchanges).
Tech, you clearly are an expert based on your screen name. Please don't give up hope on me yet!! I want you to show me how to value companies and invest, the Tech_Stock_Pro way!!
tech, i truly think you don't understand what a dcf is. for yourself and others, the key is the "D" = discounted....you make certain assumptions on sales, expenses, investments, depreciation etc. for several years out, and then discount them back to find out the current value of the company. for groupon, even when google was looking to buy them years ago when groupon was in hyper growth mode, they forecasted cash flows years in advanced, discounted them back and made an offer.
you can say groupon isn't a tech company if you want, that's your call. the dcf was used on facebook to get its value. maybe thats not a tech company to you either. why dont you give me a few companies you consider tech companies and i can tell you whether a dcf is relevant?? i can assure you that investment bankers don't pitch IPO valuations based on price to sales multiples!!
a price to revenue multiplier is only rarely used in hypergrowth companies, and that is only when a lot of things are in place...like assuming that the company does continue its growth that it scales to the point where it becomes profitable. it is more relevant for a venture capital type analysis than a company like santeon. santeon was founded more than a decade ago, and its been public more than 2.5 years. Its no start-up.
I argue that a DCF is more relevant because I estimate the company's value based on top line growth of ~80% continuing for the rest of 2012 and 2013, and a net profit margin of 10% - which is a bit high/misleading, but since they have net operating loss carryforwards it is skewed in their favor.
why don't you ask Ash on the next conference call if the services business is not the majority of the company's revenues? also ask him if ebn is not currently losing money for the company and how much revenue its doing. they won't tell us how much ebn is doing in revenues because its puny. deals like the one announced on friday are the ones that are making santeon money.
the company is severely undervalued based on the cash flow produced in the last quarter. The situation I described did not create a mutually exclusive such as the one you described to me in your latest post.
You want just one tech. company IPO that was valued using DCF? GRPN. There are dozens more but since you only asked for one, you got it. Read the investment banking models that came up with the valuation for it to go public. Wall Street valuation is centered around DCFs - not a price to sales multiple that a 10 year old could compute. Read an analyst report some day!
Tech, if you "have a lot of business valuation and acquisition experience" as you say, then you know that the only time companies are valued on price to sales ratios are when everyone is drinking the kool-aid in the tech bubble. People who value companies for a living use a technique called discounted cash flow analysis. This isn't going to be valued at 3 times sales of $5M for 2013 as per your post unless they throw up $1.25M+ of cash flow.
Will you please google what DJIA stands for?
Why would I be crying? I've been selling the last two weeks. Anytime there are email campaigns going on, you can be sure the price won't hold.
This thing seems destined to head back to $.005 per share, which is just fine by me as I'll load up in the $.004s and $.005s AGAIN...
Your socal buddies able to bail on the P&D your ihub buddies pulled??
Thanks, GQart.
was this during the "presentation" or afterwards when you could go to the SANT "booth"?
I know the FTI Consulting deal won't bring institutional or large investors to SANT.
Did you notice how quickly all the other posters left? Just you and I again :)
I wasn't there unfortunately and couldn't see others' questions - were you able to see all the questions that yourself and others were trying to ask?
SANT won't get any institutional investors and until they learn how the h%#! to run investor relations, they aren't going to find significant private investors.
i agree it wasn't too exciting, gqart. the ubroadcast news was good - but is that thing even a good business---->>>>can it be profitable??
however, did you hear Ash in the Q&A? He said FTI may help with spinning off businesses. I think if they could spin off ubroadcast, which is a business unit that is losing money with little revenues but a pretty cool "idea" for penny stock investors to buy into, then maybe we could actually increase shareholder value. I think the sum of the parts of Santeon is worth more than the whole at this point (the core consulting business is what's making the money and the other units are getting valued at nothing).
those numbers have been shown to have ABSOLUTELY no credibility and for you to even cite that website or short selling as a reason for the stock price decline makes you even less credible.
I apologize for confusing with you another poster who talked about how big this dave guy is. it is hard to keep aliases straight.
It is a small, growing company that has made some serious mistakes - like going public for one thing....the core businesses are doing well though at least as of the last quarterly report.
The stock has been a horrible performer for some time now. It gets an occasional pump and dump or promotion on it, but in general does not get steady volume.
If management can execute, this is worth more than double the current stock price. IF...
Was this Dave guy = alianangel or whoever, the guy you spoke of in California that has deep pockets?
Did you guys buy into the P&D? Luckily there is a good company behind the dump this time.