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When is the RM? That already happened.
Is this fact or opinion that its people dumping and not dilution? What is the support for the company being well funded? Didn't look overly well funded in the 8K with that cash balance. People are dumping for better opportunities coincidentally every time news comes out? As the PPS goes down? Yea, that's how to make money, sell as it drops.
Everyone keeps saying this is the strangest acting stock, becuase the PPS doesn't go up with news. Its from dilution in my opinion. Its the same behaviour as pre-merger when we went nowhere with all the news b/c they increased the outstanding shares to over a billion before the merger. I think we are getting diluted and it sucks. I mean, really, is this the news they just had to get to us? This was PR worthy? As the very first PR post merger this is what they wanted to say?
The 5 executives and directors they are referring to are 1. Fong (Director): 65,062,774 shares 2. Perkins (Director): 30,742,406 shares 3. Hollander (Executive): 9,009,121 shares 4. Toland (Executive): 800,291,288 shares 5. Dutch (Executive): 342,982,030.
Add those together: 1,248,087,619.
Divide by O/S of 5,617,258,666: 22.2%, which is what it says the 5 executives and directors hold. (If that just happened to work out that would be one heck of a coincidence)
You can't include the 22.2% and the individual percentages to get this mythical 90% held by insiders.
Just b/c they are restricted and not being traded does not mean they are not dilutive. If you have to divide the market cap by them to arrive at the current PPS (same exact thing as using them to multiply by the PPS to arrive at the market cap), then they are dilutive.
Convenient how you added the word "other" in "All other Executive Officers and Directors as a Group (5 persons)", but the word "other" is not in the 8-k's version which is copied below:
Name of Beneficial Owner
Number of Shares of
Common Stock
Beneficially Owned
Percent of
Common Stock (1)
Henry Fong
319 Clematis Street, Suite 703
West Palm Beach, FL 33401
65,062,774 (2)
1.2%
Richard W. Perkins
730 E Lake Street
Wayzata, MN 55391
30,742,406 (3)
0.6%
Barry Hollander
319 Clematis Street, Suite 703
West Palm Beach, Fl. 33401
9,009,121 (4)
0.2%
Abod Partners, LLC
1499 Blake Street, Suite 10D
Denver, Co. 80202
545,364,919
9.7%
Thomas G. Toland
1301 Dove Street Suite 800
Newport Beach, Ca. 92660
800,291,288
14.3%
Richard Dutch
1301 Dove Street Suite 800
Newport Beach, Ca. 92660
342,982,030
6.1%
MD Capital Advisers, Inc
1301 Dove Street Suite 800
Newport Beach, Ca. 92660
1,074,676,912
19.1%
Core Winner Holdings Limited
1301 Dove Street Suite 800
Newport Beach, Ca. 92660
1,074,676,912
19.1%
All Executive Officers and Directors as a Group (5 persons)
1,248,087,619 (5)
22.2%
And EPS is earnings divided by O/S (not O/S less restricted shares). If you have to use them to calculate EPS, ITS DILUTION. You can't use total O/S in one and not the other just to help your argument. I'm not saying restricted shares should be excluded from martket cap, I know they should be included in both.
What math shows 90%? Double counting 20% held by executives and directors?
So you can use the restricted shares in the market cap but not the EPS? That's awfully convenient to suit both sides of the argument.
Even better, with the current trend in PPS, they won't even want to sell then either. Oh that's right, its not dilution dragging the PPS down, its manipulation by market makers, shorters, etc (laughable). Glad this no dilution and restricted shares locked up by insiders is working out so well for us.
So you are saying earnings would not be divided by the total outstanding to calculate EPS? Might want to look that up. Its dilution.
Incorrect. They are restricted common stock, not convertible securities. Dilution is not making shares available to the open market, it is the increase in outstanding shares. Insider holdings, restriced or not, are considered outstanding shares.
Everybody says they're loading, but there is no volume. Apparently nobody is actually doing so. Timber!!!
Dilution is an increase increase in the O/S, not the float
I figure its a decent deal if surgline is worth at least 25 million. If its not, then it was not a great deal for the existing shareholders. However, with the current pps, it doesn't need to be worth much for it to be a good entry point, somewhere around 15 million maybe? Imo.
The float has changed. Float is the outstanding shares less shares held by insiders. Outstanding shares are 5.6 billion. Insider holdings are around 4.1 billion I believe, leaving a float of approximately 1.5 billion. Not sure what insider holdings were when the outstanding was 590 million, but I think around 110 million? That would leave a float of 480 million. The positive being that while the outstanding increased almost 10 times, the float only tripled because insiders hold a larger percentage, and the insider holdings appear to be restricted for 6 months.
Who all has the ability to update the ibox? Much of that info is outdated now.
I completely agree that this company has the potential to be successful and there is the possibility of pps increase. However, to say who cares about share structure is confusing to me. For example, if you were a shareholder of Apple and they issued 5 billion shares to new shareholders, spreading out the ownership and taking away from the value of your shares you wouldn't care? Share structure is the most important thing in my opinion, especially if you were in before the change in structure and bought in at a pps that was representative of a share having a different percentage ownership in the value of the company.
It's the same. It says all executives and directors, not some. I think fong and the others are included in "all", don't you? Also, coincidence that without the subtotal of 22 that it adds to 70 and that is what the PR said it would be? Seems like an unlikely coincidence.
1. Never said they would dump the shares, just said they were part of the O/S over which the market cap is spread.
2. The insider holdings are 70%, not 92.5. Therefore, on 5 billion that means the float is 1.5 billion not 500 million.
3. The float before was not 500 million, that was total outstanding (590M). Including insider holdings before but not after to benefit the argument? Should compare 590M to 500B
The individual percentages include rounding, add up the number of shares and divide by the outstanding. The original PR said 70%, and what does that total give...70% as stated. It's like magic
The line all executives and directors as a group is a subtotal! Can't include that line and include them as individuals.
I ask you to please add up the insider holdings yourself and then post a public apology to the board.
Please take 92.5% out of your post as that is incorrect.
I am not a basher, and will send you a screenshot of my ST account showing I hold shares if you want to send your email. Rama, I got your pm and have not sold because I think there is still potential for moderate gains. I have never said the pps is going to stay down, in fact I was first to post that it should go to around .004. The reason I am pissed and posting my opinions and pointing out key facts is I still believe the deal was not as good as we all expected and am just trying to help people understand why the pps is acting the way it is in my opinion because many people had higher hopes and want to know why it didn't come to fruition.
I can answer that question, because we feel the responsibility as fellow shareholders to provide our DD to our peers and temper their expectations so they are not grossly disappointed when the pps doesn't "fly" as others say. Disappointed investors dump, and I believe we did our part as now everyone is saying they will remain patient.
Because its not a scam for them. They got their percentage ownership after the dilution. Meanwhile all of us got our ownership cut by 90%
So is 92.5% fact or a blatantly false misrepresentation of fact presented as fact over and over as rebuttal by someone who did not verify the information prior to representing it that way?
He was attacked personally last night by Luke, and the post was deleted. Now there's a class act "leader" of the board who continuously posted false information that 92.5% was held by insiders. Maybe Luke can go to dinner with fong again (lol) and get the real scoop for us.
The antidilution clause is not something CNUV wrote to protect investors, its something Surgline wrote to protect themselves. They had agreed a certain number of shares to settle, but included a clause that if CNUV diluted the stock before closing, then they had to give Surgline more shares to make up for the dilution. CNUV increased the outstanding from 590 million to over 1 billion before the close That is why the 8k says CNUV gave Surgline x number of shares, and then gave them more shares in satisfaction of the antidilution clause. Then on top of it, they issued another 4 billion after the close.
Really? 92.5% held by insiders? Did anyone bother to check that figure from the original poster and do their own DD? Whoever came up with that number double counted the executive and directors holdings as it is a subtotal in the list. The real amount held by insiders is 70.3%
Are you following the conversation? He said big hedge fund managers are betting against us. I don't see any hedge fund managers that hold a position. Those companies are not fund managers.
They loaded and are betting against us, this makes more and more sense. Too bad its not making cents
Apparently we are smarter than the big fund managers too. That's if they would bother with a stock like this. Those fund managers aren't even allowed to b/c they have PPS restrictions on what they invest in. What is the biggest block you've seen purchased? A few million shares? Ah, yes, big fund managers make $5,000 trades, makes sense.
Short? Scare tactics? The people so happy with a declining PPS appear much more short. I am not happy with the deal and venting my concerns. If everyone wants to blind themselves with positive thoughts while the PPS drops, that's fine for them, but not for me because positive thoughts don't fill my wallet. Seriously, the 8K was so good that the PPS is dropping? The board must be smarter than the entire market then. I have been a shareholder and posting for awhile now, not short, pissed off.
That is with Surgline. Unless "condensed combined" means separate these days.
Per exhibit 99.3:
Current assets: 75,160
Current liabilities: 1,440,560
"THE MOST IMPORTANT AND AMAZING THING IN THE ENTIRE 8K!!! " - Nobody has said that? Its in a freaking sticky post.
Yes, it is, and it will be corrected by the market. This isn't a split or reverse split where the PPS adjusts automatically. The market now has to adjust the PPS to get to what the market believes the value of this company is. Hence the declining PPS on such "HUGE NEWS"
Are there not audited financial statements included?
If that's the response every time I'm going to go crazy. Do you think "locked up" means they are not outstanding? Do you think the value of the company is not spread over those shares too?