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Churak,
Are you referring to God?
Matt
I think you should code it so that the moderators can't restore posts that you have removed, or remove posts that you have restored. Moderators who have abused the trust and responsibility you have given them, should be removed as moderators in my opinion.
the
Unfortunately, the moderator on one board I know of only took the job so he and his pal could remove the posts of certain posters they don't like and also to make sure the discussions reflect their point of view and no others. The reposting and restoring that goes on there is proof of their arrogance and distain for the TOU. Every time they get away with flaunting iHub rules, the bolder they become.
WinLoseOrDraw,
I see you left me a message, but I guess it was removed before I had a chance to read it, so can't reply. ( when I tried to open it, all that was there was a message from Matt to langostino.)
Didn't want you to think I was ignoring your post.
You got steak, do you?
Then why is the stock dropping every day? Haven't you heard...steak clogs the arteries, which eventually will put you six feet under.
Altaire4
He stated why he didn't like it in this post--you must have missed it.
http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=AAPL&read=159690
Too bad, investors...no soup for you!
"Despite some investors' hopes for a dividend, Microsoft does not plan to announce a payout anytime soon, said Microsoft's chief financial officer, John Connors. He said the company needs to resolve legal issues, including an inquiry by the European Union and a lawsuit with Sun Microsystems." (excuses, excuses)
Yep. Need those 49 beeeeeelllion bucks to pay off lawsuits--just like we always suspected.
MSFT up in extended trading, but
sinking. It was as high as 27.52, but last time I looked it was 27.17....40 cent drop....must have been that penny disappointment...plus the weak outlook. Probably back below 27 by tomorrow a.m. JMO
oh oh...weak buy for MSFT
Better than a hold or sell. Also, not such good news for the future either.
http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?selected=MSFT&symbol=MSFT&textpath=20030717%5C2003...
sgolds, no problem.
It seems like we've gone in circles. The Athlon64 is not out yet, and the beta of XP64 is due sometime out there in the future.
Let's resume this discussion next year. I am satisfied for now.
tulipz
sgolds, may I join in the discussion?
Just to make sure your information is reliable, do you have any links showing Opterons (or anyone who has one)? If you don't have the links, or any proof it looks like you are pushing MSFT and AMD stocks.
Showing proof that anyiting is actually shipping (not promises or product pages) would be a good thing to do if commentary on these things is to have any meaning.
sgolds, please don't resist!
I've had fun reading your interchange with Zanny! Ir's definitely not against the rules even if WM doesn't care for it. It's this kind of back and forth that makes a message board lively, IMO.
Hey, what happened to the stock? I was expecting some green prior to Thursday.
Haves and have-nots in a new tech order
By Ina Fried
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
July 14, 2003, 4:00 AM PT
(Apple trading at 52-week high)
The computer industry appears to be splitting into a market of haves and have-nots amid signs of recovery, with the strongest companies poised to reap the earliest rewards at the expense of weaker rivals.
That fact of life is expected to show itself in the coming weeks as the majority of tech companies report quarterly earnings and offer their view on the current business. Although many analysts and executives say there are signs that tech spending is slowly improving, the benefits are being spread unequally.
"I think things are getting a little bit better," Oracle CEO Larry Ellison told analysts last week, but he added that the economy was only improving "for companies that people believe will be around in the future. If people don't think you'll be around, you won't be."
Having pulled through three tough lean years, technology survivors may face yet another difficult hurdle even as dollars begin trickling back into the market. While renewed spending is a welcome sign for the industry, the first wave of investment could give strong companies a golden opportunity to take market share from weaker competitors.
On the hardware side, Dell has continued to gain market share, with Hewlett-Packard trying to stay close through aggressive price drops fueled by its ongoing cost-cutting initiatives. The result is a prolonged buyer's market with prices continuing to drop to new lows. Others, such as Gateway, seem to be having a tough time keeping up. The pressure is likely to intensify with market growth limited. Last month, IDC shaved its growth forecasts for this year and next.
Although Dell and HP are fighting it out with various PC sales promotions, investors won't be hearing from those two companies, which both are in the middle of their quarters. Gateway, which is on the traditional calendar schedule, is slated to report results next week. The company is once again in the midst of shifting strategies, this time increasing its focus on consumer electronics such as flat-screen televisions and digital theater systems while also revamping its retail stores. Analysts expect the company to report a loss of 27 cents per share, in line with its most recent forecast.
A similar divide is emerging on the processor side, where Intel has been gaining market share at the expense of rival Advanced Micro Devices.
AMD has already warned of a wider-than-expected loss for the second quarter, with analysts predicting a loss of 54 cents per share, according to First Call. AMD has not turned a profit since the second quarter of 2001.
Intel, meanwhile, is seen posting earnings of 13 cents per share when it reports on Tuesday. In June, the chipmaker reiterated its financial outlook, saying it expects sales of between $6.6 billion and $6.8 billion. At the time, Intel CFO Andy Bryant said that PC processor sales were at the high end of normal seasonal patterns, although demand for communications and wireless chips was soft.
Microsoft, which makes money from each PC regardless of which company sells it or whose chip is inside, is seen posting another quarter of solid profits, with analysts pegging earnings at 24 cents per share. Analysts will be listening closely to Thursday's conference call both for an update on the PC market as well as to see if the company decides to share its massive cash horde with shareholders, either through an increased dividend or through a cash payout.
The company also may offer more details on its plans to switch from giving stock options to employees to awarding actual shares. With the move, Microsoft has said it will start expensing the cost of both options and stock grants and will also restate earnings for the past two years. However, the estimated cost of options will remain a footnote in this quarterly report, as Microsoft doesn't plan to offer restated figures until it posts its next quarterly results in October.
Apple, which offers the main alternative to Microsoft's Windows operating system for desktop PCs, is seen posting earnings of 3 cents per share. The company's shares have been trading at 52-week highs lately, following Apple's introduction of its iTunes Music Store as well as the announcement of the PowerMac G5, which is seen as a potential boost to slumping sales of high-end machines for the Mac maker.
Earnings from IBM and Sun Microsystems should give an indication of higher-level IT infrastructure spending. IBM reports on Wednesday, with analysts expecting earnings of 98 cents per share. Sun, meanwhile is expected to report a slim 2-cent-per-share profit when it gives its report next week. Also, EMC, which recently announced plans to buy Legato Systems, reports results on Wednesday morning and is expected to have earnings of 3 cents per share, according to First Call.
One factor that could help many of the companies is a slumping dollar, which should boost the impact of international sales. In a July 8 report, Goldman Sachs analyst Laura Conigliaro said that the dollar's slide during the first half of the year has helped companies such as EMC, IBM, Hewlett-Packard and Sun Microsystems.
"If not for the incremental dollar weakness during the course of the March quarter, most of our major companies would have missed consensus revenue estimates," Conigliaro wrote in a July 8 report.
However, there are signs that the dollar is stabilizing or even gaining, which could put pressure on companies to moderate their outlooks for the current quarter. Also, some analysts warn that Europe appears particularly weak during what is always a sluggish time.
"While European business is always slow in the summer, our latest checks continue to indicate that the tone of business is worse and IT spending on the continent is expected to decline in 2004," Conigliaro said.
Oracle's executive in charge of sales for Europe, the Middle East and Africa echoed that sentiment last week. "The economy is tough," said Executive Vice President Sergio Giacoletto. "You have to take market share from competitors to grow."
Meanwhile, Conigliaro said things in the United States are flat or improving, with Japan also stabilizing after a period of weakness. The rest of Asia is also seen improving to more normal levels following an ease in the SARS outbreak.
In starting his coverage of technology hardware, Prudential analyst Steven Fortuna predicted that the hardware industry is poised to do better than the market as a whole. He cautioned, though, that tech spending will be closely tied to improvements in corporate spending. Despite that fact that many companies overspent on technology in the 1990s, Fortuna said that further productivity benefits from technology can support spending of one and a half or two times overall economic growth.
"We anticipate a modest recovery in IT demand beginning in the first half of 2004," Fortuna said.
CNET News.com's Alorie Gilbert and Michael Kanellos contributed to this report.
Researcher: Windows flaw remains
By Robert Lemos
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
July 11, 2003, 4:35 PM PT
A class of attacks that allows a person to take control of any PC or server could leave computer systems in corporations and Internet cafes vulnerable to attack, a researcher says.
Dubbed "shatter" attacks by the original discoverer, the class of security hacks uses the Windows messaging system to request that insecure but privileged applications run malicious code. The Windows messaging system is the medium through which applications and the Windows operating system communicate with each other.
Oliver Lavery, an independent researcher and author of a paper published by security consultancy iDefense on Friday, said that Microsoft fixed the original flaw found but left the basic messaging system untouched. Applications that run with system privileges but don't follow Microsoft's recommended security practices allow the vulnerability to be exploited.
"I think the point that many people have missed in the past is that this is not a single attack, it's a type of attack," Lavery wrote in an e-mail interview. "Taken alone, each instance of a shatter attack is a problem, but not a critical one. The fact that this type of hole is present in many applications, including parts of Windows itself, makes the problem much more serious."
Because the vulnerability requires that a user on the system run the attack code, many people dismissed the attack as unimportant when a researcher released two papers on the issue last year.
No wonder: The vast majority of home users have full administrator rights on their PCs, making privilege escalation a moot attack. However, many corporations only allow employees to have limited user accounts, while kiosks, libraries and Internet cafes usually don't allow people to modify the system. Such situations are where privilege-escalation attacks are most dangerous, Lavery said.
"With modern Windows versions, a normal user account isn't permitted to, say, format the drives in a computer. This sort of function should be restricted to administrators," he said in the e-mail. "Shatter attacks allow this restriction to be circumvented, so a hostile program which exploits a shatter vulnerability can do far more damage than one that does not."
Chris Paget, a security researcher, originally wrote about the "shatter" privilege-escalation attacks last fall.
"The root cause of the problem is that any application can send any message to any other application on the same desktop," said Paget, now a senior security consultant with Next-Generation Security Software. "When the target application receives a message, it has no way of discerning whether the message was sent to it by the system or by another process."
However, the direness of his warnings and the fact that several errors were found with some of his claims led many people to debate the importance of the research. Microsoft's initial dismissal of the paper reinforced that.
The software giant discounted the threat because an attacker would require "unrestricted physical access to your computer" to use the exploit, the company argued in a statement sent to CNET News.com last year.
Microsoft's tune changed a few months later. In December, the company issued a patch that fixed the instance of the problem that Paget had identified. On Wednesday, Microsoft corrected another instance of the vulnerability when it closed a hole in the Utility Manager, which was included in Windows 2000 to handle accessibility options for PCs.
Ian Mulholland, security program manager for the Microsoft Security Response Center, said that the software giant had needed time to investigate the issue before it realized the danger.
Moreover, Mulholland said that application makers that follow Microsoft's security guidelines would not have vulnerable applications. The company has long recommended that software makers not use the messaging system for highly privileged applications. At least a handful of developers still haven't adopted this basic measure of protection.
"We published a Knowledge Base article on this back in 1994--that recommendation well predates this instance," he said. "At the end of the day, we can make the recommendations, but if people choose to do otherwise, we can't force them."
Researcher Lavery said he understands the problems in fixing the flaw. The solution would require an extensive rewrite of vulnerable applications. In his paper, Lavery suggests a temporary solution, but it's likely that the issue will remain until all software makers improve the security of their code, he said.
"The fact that numerous applications are written in a manner that is vulnerable to message-based attacks is not due to a fundamental flaw in Windows," he wrote. "The flaw lies in the way programmers are writing software that runs on it."
Oh yes, and one more thing regarding my previous post. I can't wait for Panther!!!!!!
windowsman
Apple "chatter" as you call it comes naturally on a MSFT board. Apple is a fierce competitor of MSFT and therefore relevant.
There are opposing opinions on both as you well know--so why not let the discussions flow as they come up? It seems rather disingenious to take the high road in such a way ...considering the past. Another poster, i believe it was meme, welcomed discussions on both Apple and Microsoft. I, as a MSFT investor...but a dedicated Mac user, also welcome it.
I am looking forward to earnings report on the 17th and I am also lookfing forward to the G5 in the fall, which should really help boost the Mac user base.
Another opinion on options.
a d v e r t i s e m e n t
Microsoft Switch Stirs Up Debate
Granting restricted shares is encouraging if linked to performance targets, analysts say.
By Kathy M. Kristof
Times Staff Writer
July 14, 2003
Microsoft Corp.'s surprise announcement last week that it plans to replace stock options with restricted stock grants in employee pay packages has revived a debate over how to best link employee compensation to the interests of company shareholders.
Stock options have been sharply criticized as an often undeserved ticket to vast riches for corporate executives focusing on quick bottom-line boosts. But compensation experts contend that replacing options with handouts of restricted stock is no guarantee that employees' interests will be any more aligned with those of investors.
"Restricted stock is only a good compensation tool if it's tied to performance," said Paul Hodgson, senior research analyst with the Corporate Library, a corporate-governance research and information service.
"I would be quite happy to see more rewards like Microsoft's, if they are performance-related. But I'm not convinced that compensation committees have the guts to impose challenging performance targets on them at the moment."
Restricted stock grants are not new, said Jack Marsteller, leader of the executive-compensation practice at Towers Perrin in Los Angeles. In the past, however, restricted shares have played a limited role, mainly in helping to retain key executives.
"It used to be a bit player in the compensation program. Now it's the lead," Marsteller said. "This is quickly becoming the fad du jour."
Unlike stock options, which only gain value if the company's stock price rises, restricted stock represents an actual gift of shares. Traditionally, all executives had to do to have these shares vest — or become fully theirs — was remain employed until the restrictions fell away.
"It's the lay low and don't get fired award," said Matt Ward, chief executive of WestWard Pay Strategies in San Francisco.
By contrast, stock options are, theoretically, an award for performance. Options are rights to buy a company's shares at a set price in the future. The exercise price is typically set at the market value of a company's stock on the date of grant, so they only become valuable if the company's stock price rises, presumably as the result of good financial performance.
Indeed, Microsoft's dramatic decision to dump stock options hasn't led to a flood of imitation in Silicon Valley, ground zero of the stock-option culture.
Big name tech firms such as Oracle Corp., Cisco Systems Inc. and Dell Computer Corp. were quick to say they remain committed to options as a method of attracting and retaining talented employees. For fast-growing companies, options can provide a greater upside potential than restricted stock grants.
"My hypothesis is that you get a very different character with restricted stock than the guy who is willing to stay up all night to create the next great thing to get the price of their stock options to go up," Ward said.
Microsoft is proposing to tie vesting of the restricted shares, given to 600 key officers, to performance targets — a move that many compensation experts see as the beginning of an encouraging trend. However, under Microsoft's plan, most of the software maker's employees would receive restricted shares without having to hit particular performance targets.
Still, although tying restricted stock grants to performance can be a tricky proposition, many corporate-governance experts see such stock as preferable to the sometimes "perverse incentives" created by stock options.
"Stock options can be structured to reward any type of performance that you'd want, but historically, they have rewarded short-term performance," said Jack Williams, a corporate-governance expert and professor at Georgia State University College of Law.
Sarah Anderson, director of the global economy project at the Institute for Policy Studies in Washington, said companies have slashed research and development budgets — their ticket to future growth — to boost short-term earnings, and thus the value of executive stock options.
Many experts believe that the alleged financial wrongdoing at Enron Corp. and WorldCom Inc., among others, was partly motivated by executives intent on boosting the value of their option packages.
Options also can give a misleading impression of a company's financial results because accounting rules have allowed companies to issue options without recognizing an immediate cost — a situation that may soon change, Anderson said.
"Restricted stock is better because it will show up as an expense on the company's financial statements," she said. "There is wide agreement that if companies have to record [stock compensation] as an expense, executives will not be getting these extreme compensation packages that we've seen in the past several years."
Companies can still boost paychecks through restricted stock or special pension arrangements, Anderson said.
Restricted shares played an important role in several of the biggest executive pay packages in Southern California last year, according to The Times' recently published survey of Southland CEO pay.
Among the big local restricted stock awards in 2002: R. Chad Dreier of Calabasas-based home builder Ryland Group Inc. received $12.2 million of restricted shares and Ray Irani of Los Angeles-based Occidental Petroleum Corp. got restricted stock worth more than $10 million.
Keeping a lid on restricted stock grants will require corporate compensation committees to "just say no" to corporate chieftains, experts say. If companies simply replace vast stock option grants with huge grants of restricted shares, shareholders are sure to suffer, Hodgson said. But if restricted shares are used more modestly and tied to performance targets, they may prove a real value.
"Our hope depends on the balance of power moving in the right direction," said Diane Doubleday, compensation consultant with Mercer Human Resources Consulting in San Francisco. "I am optimistic that we won't have another run on the bank."
AKvetch...thanks. em
sgolds,
thanks for the very thorough explanation of a very (seemingly) complicated issue. Looks the the company got the jump on the rest. Just one more question, do you expect the stock to rise as a result of this move? As you know, during the recent market "exhuberance", MSFT was a non-performer--except for the past week. Very frustrating to someone holding a bunch of the stock.
Thanks again, Phil
I'll do just that. My posts are disappearing as fast as I can make them.
Tulipz
Thanks Phil
I think I was mistaken about the anyway. The missing copy was in another post that was actually removed entirely, for what reason I don't know.
I'd like to know what the policy is on censorship of posts.
I recently made a post but some of the content was edited out. That seems to me a bit excessive. Wouldn't it be better to just remove the whole post if it had inappropriate content--rather than mess with the author's intent? Then the poster could find out privately what was objectionable and do the editing him/herself?
meme, in answer to your question.
You are correct about the RB refugees. That site had become difficult to negotiate...slow and lots of glitches. Also there seemed to be no control or punishment of the abusive posters. Take the MSFT board, for example. It used to have many, many posters (sgolds can attest to that) and be quite a lively place for discussion. But it was taken over by a few abusive people and gradually the legitimate posters just left.
I can see this site has no problem taking care of abuse issues, so looks like it will be a nice community. With room for disagreement of course
Like you, MSFT has never let me down, financially. However, I would never use Windows. I use a Mac because it's just a far superior product and I think many PC owners would agree, if ever they gave it a try.
sgolds, you said the
announcements on the 17th will have little financial impact on the stock price--do you think that's because the "news" is already priced into the stock?
sgolds
I'm sure this board will attract good posters (like there used to be a couple of years ago on RB--so many left for the same reasons you did and the "riff raff" was what remained). Also glad to hear you are open to the opinions of others, including the competition, even if there is disagreement.
Santa Monica Promenade Apple Store grand opening is tonight!
I plan to avoid the crowd and get there first thing in the a.m.
I would love to have earnings per share
increased. When do you supposed that will happen?
Also, your last comment sounded like a personal attack. i thought that kind of thing wasn't allowed on iHub?
That's just one guy's opinion.
I believe MSFT had no choice. With the spector of having to expense options in 2004, they just decided to bite the bullet now and get it over with. It wasn't a bad move, I'll admit. For them. Not so hot for stockholders. JMO
"onelip is never enough."
sgolds
I agree with you 100% about MSFT. It's nice to read a post by someone who actually seems to know what he is talking about.
Duke of URL
Are you making fun of me?
My point about Microsoft "buying all it's stock back" was not to be taken literally. That said, I would prefer to see a substantial buyback, rather than the rumored one time dividend--which I don't think will happen either. Maybe they need the cash to settle the neverending lawsuits or compensate for the reduced growth they now face--due to serious competition coming this fall?
BTW, tulipz reduced by half would not be onelipz...it would be onelip.
oops, typo.
I meant 23.
It's a moot point anyway.
MIcrosoft will NEVER back all its stock. And I seriously doubt the story of the "one-time" giant dividend as well.
I think the stock is being pumped up and will reach the limit just prior to earnings on the 17th. Then....look out below. 25 would be a good price to jump in. Others think it will go lower.
Tulipz the wise
RB may have "come back to life"...just temporilly I suspect. There is still something very fouled up over there. I've not been able to post for weeks. Same thing happened to a friend, who called them, and was told it was a "glitch" and it was fixed. I don't really care to go to that trouble as the site is full of spammers, attackers and people who use the boards as an exclusionary "club".
It really used to be a good site, too.
meme and sgolds.
I vote for stock buyback. MSFT has enough cash to buy it all back. Imagine what the stock price would be then? option policy changes and one time dividends will be chump change by comparison.
JMO
Well Windows
Hope you're right.
Would it be possible to get some constructive
information about MSFT here? There's a lot going on that we investors should be discussing--pros and cons alike.
Any more news on the dividend rumor? 4th quarter earnings are out on the 17th I believe and this isn't the run up I was expecting (usually happens prior to earnings report)
WindowsMan...who's not applauding?
Here is one who is not. this will also answer acesteele's query of "what bombshell?"
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=1182203
Time will tell, acesteele.
Your's is just one opinion. Throughout the day I have read many opinions/outlooks on the subject, not all as sunny as yours. Of course, Microsoft has the cash to weather most any storm, and perhaps doing away with stock options is a good thing in the long term. But the immediate expensing of options could put a lot of companies out of business and I don't see how that would be good for the economy.
It's okay to be bullish on a stock in wierd economic times, that's up to the individual. I take a more bearish approach. Even cynical as Microsoft seems to be in the news a lot in the these days leadinhg up to their 4th quarter earnings report.
I also wonder why they have declined to address the Financial Times report about the 10 billion dividend? You know, the one Monday that spiked the stock up a whole bunch?
Are you kidding?
Don't you worry about the MSFT BOMBSHELL just dropped?
Zanny,
Did you miss my earlier post? I was wondering what kind of a box you were running and if you were planning on moving on to Panther when it becomes available.
I was kind of hoping to get your usual good advice.
tulipz
Thanks, yofal,
Funny the company won't confirm.