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meh, issuing shares is nothing illegal, no need for lawyers.
Yeah, and as of Nov 30th, the float was still 53m (943-890RME=53). So by some ridiculous way, the float increased by 300m (before the buyback number is applied), which is why we saw the pps decreased since December until now.
If you call that a DD, then it's really lame. Simply type in the name Steven Y Moskowitz then you get all the answer from businessweek or forbes. That's not a DD, that's GOOGLING.
1. They are on the director board, doesn't mean jack. Director board just sits there and mostly do nothing in small companies. They get paid a little bit of money just to comply with corporate governance. If there is a board vote, they just mail in the vote. Do you see Frank Lazaukas does anything in Spongetech? He's just on the board.
2. That stock isn't even traded on the secondary market, just because it's public doesn't mean there are people trading it. The common share o/s is 11m
3. The company was sold to a NYSE corp (CNH) for $30m, isnt that a good deal? That's basically $3/share.
4. Metter everyone knows has shady past, if any of you doesn't, then you are an idiot. Steven Moskowitz, on the other hand, is pretty clean.
I never said the company is scamming us. You guys are either in camp A: the company is super honest and super nice, giving money for free of interest for 2 years, working for free for 2 years, or camp B: the guys are cheaters, liars, thieves blah blah blah. And everyone thinks it has to be one or the other.
How about a 3rd possibility: They have a real business, they need cash but they also don't want to have too much risk. They are nice to us that they don't dilute straight to the float those 700m shares they have issued (they can under the law issuing shares directly to the float), but they want to make some money too. If they are so nice to us, then they should have done those shares as preferred shares. Then they truly cannot trade those preferred shares easily. You keep thinking if they dilute 100m shares that means they are so bad, blahblah so they must have not sold any share. I don't think dilution is bad in this economy, even Bank of America, GE, Wells Fargo have to dilute then SPNG is no exception.
The end, I never even hinted that the company is scamming us.
Nah, TA gagged reason is everyone's guess, but I doubt it's the reason you said. They gagged the TA since october, and they started to retire share recently.
SPNG doesn't have to file anything if they sell shares, SEC doesn't have any rule preventing a public company to dilute share when they need to, whether those shares are previously restricted or they just issue share to the float is everyone's guess. The fact is that after 130m buyback from the float, there is still 220m float, which is an increase of 300m from the 10k.
O/S as of August 31st 533m
RME unregistered shares 480m
Non rme (float or watever you wanna call it)= 53m
Rule 144 only prevents affiliate from selling restricted shares to the float, it doesn't prevent employees or friends and families to sell those shares when it becomes unrestricted.
Last post, yeah, watever. Im bored anyways. He and I agree they sold some shares or dilute to the market, how and to what extent is everybody's guess. SPNG hired a team of expert to figure this stuff out, so don't rely on a bunch of online research to beat old school knowledge. They are not doing anything illegal, that's for sure, because it's not in their best interest to do so anyways. They're rich.
I didnt say steve was THE affiliate. at least read my post more carefully.
I said lafferty, and yeah Im assuming, I told you I base it on Soapy's hint on this board. I don't have premium feature so it's hard to search for that post. Just click on Soapy name and type in the search bar "long story" The original quote that I still remember is "BMAS is buying for them, along with Lafferty, it's a long story."
lol, just so you know, people mess around with those stupid numbers. Not me, but people i know. I knew it, you rely on that stupid rally of shares that i said is a waste of time. One guy, sending 10 emails using different alias, 10m each, right there. At least tell those people to take a screen shot of their holdings, black out the name and sensitive info, then at least it's more reliable, even though someone with a decent skill of photoshop can fake those number on their screen shot too. Joel did a rally before and it was just so ridiculously inflated that he gave up, now web takes up on it.
Ok, where the heck is 100m shares from sharesholder come from? lol. From rallying of shares or guess? And 100-150m is my estimate of NSS anyways.
No buddy, He retired 76+55m shares. Plain and simple. 76m affiliate, which I guess is Lafferty, since BMAS is not considered an affiliate, just a hired broker/dealer. 55m bought float which is BMAS, they bought 80m last year, 55+25 (planned) is 80m. It takes time to retire shares. Did you see Lafferty popped up anywhere on the LII? No, he used other MMs. Hence, I said do not read into LII too much. Why do I get the idea Lafferty is the affiliate? Soapy gave some hints on this board already. Now look at SPNG's affiliate there are 4: RME, officers of SPNG, and Lafferty, and their lawyers. I doubt lawyers has anything to do with stock.
The 60m they bought this month, I told you look at AH, the real buying from open market is only 15m, the AH is 45m. And remember these AH trades are at 20% premium, if it's actually RME shares, it's 35% premium. You have to understand there is a lot of double counting you are doing right now. If there is another decrease in RME shares, then take your guess where it comes from. If there is decrease in the float from 220m to 160m, then it's still SPNG buying unrestricted RME shares.
Wadi, give me your email, i can't response to PM.
lol Steve M 140m already retired buddy. I already told you that, you are double counting a lot of shares.
Originally there was 350m, now he retired 130m so 220m. So he no longer holds those shares.
Now you can add Doug+FOD (82) + Nick (30-35)= 110m. There is still 110m unaccounted, and i said there is NSS, just not 500m. You guys used old info like 2300 investors and unconfirmed 4000 investors. 2300 investors is as of August when price was high and before the financial crisis. People have stuffs to take care off, they may already sold their shares, now only a few major investors and their groups and traders exist.
FYI, Doug's 250m is unconfirmed. And 250m is not his share, it's his group. And who knows how big is his group, 50, 100-200 people?
Doug and nick all said the truth. They are buying shares for sure, that doesn't mean they don't flip when they see an opportunity. WECK and FANC don't mean jack, you are reading too much into LII. WECK traded 560k (mind you that they traded, not buy or sell)last month, lol. The only two that are clear as day are BMAS who is only on the bid so the volume is just buy volume and UBSS, who only sells.
Etrade doesn't even popped up in LII and voila, they traded 30m shares last month. And Etrade are comprise of just retail investors. Trade and trade, volume only explains interest in the stock, not actual shares traded hands.
Yes, they are only buying now. What's the problem with that? The fact that they bought a buttload more shares when price is so much cheaper, isn't that correlating with my theory that they want price lower?
The volume i already explained, i didnt say the flippers and traders is the company. My friends flipped couple times as so did I, Im sure thousands of other people do the same. God knows how many other chartists traded this stock. And in the extreme case, you only need one guy with about 3-5m and flip like crazy in one day. If there is rise and fall 50% in one day then of course people will trade it.
You want to play volume. Here is March 2008, mind you that at the time the company only has 130m shares issued, and the volume even exceeded the O/S. It just means there are a lot of interest in this stock and people love trading this thing.
http://www.otcbb.com/asp/tradeact_mv.asp?SearchBy=issue&Issue=SPNG&SortBy=volume&Month=3-1-2008&IMAGE1.x=24&IMAGE1.y=3
My god, 436m shares traded in a month doesn't mean it trades from A (the seller) to a whole new set of B(the buyer).
BMAS bought 60m shares this January, i told you that normally they bought 15-25m even in october when there is 400m shares volume, guess where the spike is made from? 35 to 45m spike. Hint: AH
The rest can be trade back and forth and you don't know if who buys or sells. I can flip one day with my 1.1m makes it become 1.5m when pps is lower in the day, does it mean there are 2.6m shares traded hands? No, there is only 400k shares traded hands. And SPNG is traders' heaven because it rises and falls like a roller coaster. Imagine someone with only 5m and flip daily, it looks like you have so much volume. He flips one and you see 10m traded. Flippers and Traders can make up a buttload of volume.
The only credible volume is the 61m shares bought by BMAS, everything else is nothing.
I didnt say they buy and sell at the same time, that violates the swing trade rule for insiders. I said they already sold it, now they are buying it back at much cheaper price. All you saw on LII is UBSS selling, that's it. There are so many brokers out there, I used etrade and when i put in a sell order or buy order, it's either popped up as UBSS or NITE. It just means that these two are doing all the executions, doesnt mean that one person selling every single share from UBSS or NITE. Someone has Fidelity or Scottrade or TD Ameritrade has put in a sell order, it will also popped up primarily as those two MMs.
The only major investor I know for sure that only buys in the open market is Nick. Doug said he bought from the open market those 41m, you don't know where the heck is the rest of the 210m shares come from. BMAS buys for Steve or SPNG, and those shares already got retired so Steve doesn't hold shit.
Again, you are assuming they are selling shares right now. Im saying they already sold it, now they keep the price low so anyone who budge will sell at cheaper price.
How do you know they bought the shares at .019? 889m RME restricted on the book+ 120m float they claimed is only 1 billion=that leaves you 170m shares unaccounted for. They can issue to the float or some RME become unrestricted and they sold those shares and you can't do jack about it. Read the 10Qs from last January and do the number yourself then you would understand better about the share structure.
As of August 31th 2008, there are around 480m unregistered (restricted) issued to RME, and the O/S is 533m. So non RME (or float) is 53m. And now after all the buying from open market 130m shares, the float is actually either 120m or 220m, which is an increase. So some shares become unrestricted or they diluted into the float, plain and simple, even with NSS.
Recent Sales of Unregistered Securities
Since June 1, 2007, we have made the following issuances of unregistered securities:
For the period between June 2007 and February 2008, we issued an aggregate of 146,854,720 shares of our common stock to RM Enterprises International, Inc., a related party, in consideration for the conversion of an aggregate of $2,119,238 in debt or $0.014 a share. The control persons of RM Enterprises International are Michael Metter, Steven Moskowitz and Frank Lazauskas, all of whom are directors of RM Enterprises International.
In December 2007, we issued an aggregate of 240,000 shares of our common stock to Sichenzia Ross Friedman Ference LLP in consideration for legal services provided in accordance with the Retainer Agreement dated April 17, 2006 for legal services for the period between February 2007 and January 2007.
In March 2008, we issued an aggregate of 81,526,088 shares of our common stock in consideration for advances of an aggregate of $1,293,484.93 by RM Enterprises International, Inc.
In April 2008, we issued an aggregate of 59,100,000 shares of our common stock in consideration for advances of an aggregate of $1,019,520 by RM Enterprises International, Inc.
In May 2008, we issued an aggregate of 30,650,000 shares of our common stock in consideration for advances of an aggregate of $797,820 by RM Enterprises International, Inc.
In May 2008, we issued 500,000 shares of our common stock to Straw Marketing, LLC in consideration for services provided under the Consulting Agreement dated March 31, 2008.
In June 2008, we issued an aggregate of 25,482,659 shares of our common stock in consideration for advances of an aggregate of $738,349.56 by RM Enterprises International, Inc.
In June 2008, we issued 2,000,000 shares of our common stock to R.F. Lafferty & Co. Inc. in consideration for financial, advisory, and consulting services provided under the Consulting Agreement dated June 2, 2008.
In July 2008, we issued an aggregate of 2,253,436 shares of our common stock to Sichenzia Ross Friedman Ference LLP as compensation for legal services rendered to the Company.
In July 2008, we issued an aggregate of 61,230,000 shares of our common stock in consideration for advances of an aggregate of $1,490,322 by RM Enterprises International, Inc.
In August 2008, we issued an aggregate of 59,250,000 shares of our common stock in consideration for advances of an aggregate of $1,285,000 by RM Enterprises International, Inc.
Somehow your head is already wired at they bought shares at .019 and sold at .017. There are other scenarios that i can think of:
1. They bought shares at .014 (Shares bought at december 07) and sold at .017-.019
2. They already sold the shares at who knows what price during 3 months ending november and now they are buying it back at much cheaper price.
Again, you already made up your mind so you are biased. It can be from both MMs and management. The reason why MMs manipulate stock in OTCBB is because they can, plain and simple. We need them to facilitate transactions as OTCBB doesnt have a centralized trading place like NYSE or NASDAQ, so they make money by manipulate stock, but to what extent is everyone's guess. It's a necessary evil, if they don't make money, no one would be MMs in OTCBB, you as an investor assume the risk when you buy a OTCBB stock since you have been warned before you decide to invest.
You can believe whatever you want to believe, these MMs are real companies, sure they make money by manipulating stocks, but they are not so stupid that they keep shorting the stock while the chance of company's failure is uncertain. Don't go blame on manipulation when it's a given.
You are not living in a perfect world when MMs would just be so happy to provide a service without doing some shady shit. All financial firms have gray ethical standard. Manipulation is a given in OTCBB and just leave it at that. Blaming on one side without looking at the other side is immature and biased.
The company knows what they get into when they go public on OTCBB. Do you seriously think that they need to go public when the majority of the funding (90%) is from RME, which is their own company? There is ulterior motive that these guys went public in the first place, as those shares issued to RME would not worth a dime if there is no market for it.
Everything I said has a lot of assumptions in them, but it's not assuming one side is the Devil who would naked short to no end because they are so insane or stupid to know when to get out, and the other side is Angel who would work for free for 2 years and giving a loan for free of interest. I assume both sides are humans and altogether doing shady stuffs.
Remember this, in november or even in october, from Michael Metter's mouth and from their PR, they said they have 660m on hands restricted and they won't be sold, and at the time there were already 800m shares. They didn't lie to you, sure they have 660m restricted that won't be sold, the share difference is another story.
Next time, don't invest in penny stocks. Trade them, but don't invest in them. I know i won't.
i told you already that volume doesn't mean that many shares traded hands, if there is manipulation (which is a given in OTCBB) then the volume is grossly inflated.
lol, buying all the shares of SPNG and taking over the company. So you agree that they sell shares or not? They own enough RME shares to even need class B.
it's so obvious that i don't even bother do that shit. Look at their logic, because a PR get pulled/expired so there is no deal? lol, it's like you shot someone and you took the bullet so that person never get shot? Like spng gonna get away with simply pulling a PR.
Am I one of those people? Lol. They already sold it, now it's time for them to buy back. NSS according to Steven is only around 150m (yeah you can argue north of 150m can mean 400m, but everyone knows north of 150m is 156-159). If naked short happens everyday for the last 6 months, it won't be just 150m.
#1-#9. Trades like those happen all the time, because in your head you are thinking about manipulation so you are already biased. As long as the market makers feel that they can execute a trade, then they do it. .0174 vs. .0173 is not that big of a difference. Perhaps someone put it an order at .0174 and the mm can match it with someone else's order. It's not manipulation.
#10-#11. There are 2 scenarios: manipulation, and someone lower their sale price because their sale order didn't get filled, and you don't get to see it on LII immediately. Try it at home, I have etrade, I did it a couple times and the thing never showed up on the LII yet my order got filled. LII is not everything. There is L3 as well, but you won't be able to get it.
the rest can be explained similarly
My advice to you, stop looking at LII and try to decipher it. Just because a bid and an ask price are at a certain price, doesn't mean the sale or buy orders have to be always at those prices.
Now if you see a shit load of sale taking place like early this morning, yet the price still went up, while some other day massive buying and the price went down, then manipulation is taking place, because the mms just trading back and forth. Or a 3m buy didn't move the price up, but 10000 shares sell brings the price down.
those 25m officer holding isn't restricted, plus you don't know how much they own right now. 1933 company baby.
nope, os includes the class b voting shares. outstanding shares is outstanding shares, doesn't matter what class. Not that those class B shares affect the number of OS by a whole lot, only 10m.
yeah, if SPNG let the pps rise, the ones who sold bite their nail and grumble, but what can they do? No court gonna take a case based on shareholders sold their shares prematurely.
FYI, the stuffs i said on monday about spng buying rme shares is not the same as this, i may have suspicion about those AH trade, but what i meant is the old 76m+55m shares buyback that they did.
And to answer your question in the pm, since i dont have premium feature. Yes, since they can be converted at any time, not that I think they will be converted.
lol, i did say 50-100m, then another post i said maybe 150m max, i really have no idea, but it should be around that. Plus the NSS may have bought shares to cover during that period, so maybe at some point in time there is around 150m, and they bought shares to cover some of it. And again, you can't pin Steven for it, because what he said is true, just not complete.
lol, see now? My guess/estimate is pretty close isnt it? 500m is a pipe dream some people cook up because they LOVE doing rally of shares on the board. Today we found out BMAS bought 64m in January, which is around 40m-45m higher than in normal month, take your guess, where the extra 40m comes from? Hint, has something to do with AH trade.
lol, keep trying.
http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=ind_focus.story&STORY=/www/story/10-29-2008/0004913968&EDATE=
Nickelodeon
Tori Fernandes
212.846.4942
Now be quiet, a lot of their pr is outdated so it's automotically gone.
yeah right, we all know you just google steven moskowitz and that's the first guy that popped up, and coincidentally he is 44 years old just like our Steven.
gosh, you should have checked before you post because you really look like you dont know anything. His name is Steven Y. Moskowitz. Although he does have money, hes not that guy on forbes. Just randomly google a name doesn't mean that's the same person.
All the stock including RME one are common stocks, the difference between them is restricted or unrestricted.
Does every company have to have a website? Private company doesn't give a crap about having a website. Call them up or go to their office to see if they exist, asking for link is just being lazy.
First of all, I agree with you that SPNG is a very good company with phenomenal growth. However, the part about the float being gone is not correct. Plain and simple. We sit here for 3 months, after all that buying from BMAS, we thought the float is gone, and what happened? It's 220m after 130m being purchased. Not decreased but increased.
Nope, according to Steve, they got money through the bank. Unless you are saying he misled us on that part too.
You can choose to believe or you don't. Those details won't be reported because it is a contract between a public and a private companies. RME and SPNG shares the same principles? Bank will loan Microsoft 40billion dollars, but they won't loan Mr. Gate little pet project 40billion dollars. Why? They all share the same guy dont they? If something happens, Mr. Gate's little pet project corporation can declare bankruptcy and bank cannot go after microsoft for the money since the principle of limited liability of a corporation applied. Go learn basic business 101.
I won't be kicking myself, because of greed people get dragged to this stock. If the price goes to 3c, i make about 15G, i may leave 10G back to let it play out. You want to be a good investor? Stop being greedy.
Doug is buying because there is a reason he has to that he won't disclose to any of you. He dragged even his family into this. BMAS is buying because they are buying for spng. Read my post again, 130m bought from the open market+220m=350m, while the RME holding being reduced at a faster pace than it is being retired: 510+300m retired so far=810m, now you can do your own calculation using the 10Q 1/14/08 until now, we will see that excluding December 08 (since there is no report on Dec yet) the total number of RME shares is already 889m, December is another 100-150m based on average of those 3 months. So some of those RME shares must have become unrestricted, plain and simple, and they become part of the tradeable shares, maybe not strict definition of float like SPNG claimed to be.
you can dream about it to happen. Im not an idiot. I know these guys, talk to them extensively, see their holding personally. Conspiracy theorist like you can dream up all kinds of possibilities.
No one said they sold those shares since last April. The Shareshaven't even been unrestricted back then. Proof is that they can sell the shares as long as they don't pass the 1% mark. That means 80m-100m in three months. Why is it that the 10Q there is a line on the top of the 10Q saying "A certain affiliate purchased 76m shares?" Coincidently it just happens to be the 1% of the total outstanding shares?
Proof is that after 130m share purchased from the open market, the non rme is still 220m. 130+220=350m. While at the same time the RME shares were reduced at a faster pace than it was retired, 510+300=810 while there were about 1 billion shares issued. So there must be some of them became unrestricted during 3 months period ended nov 30th 08
Proof is that the whole April to August, the price didn't go to the toilet even with NSS, mostly hovering around 5c-4c.
Volume don't mean shit, it just means that there are a lot of traders interested in SPNG stock. You see 24-25m shares traded doesn't mean that there are actually 24-25m shares being sold. If there are so many day traders then the volume is made up for it.
I said there is NSS, just not 500m, may be 50m or 100m or 150m max, and stock not being NSS right now, who the hell NSS right now at a low price without knowing for sure if the stock will tank. You can stick to your pumping theory of because they got stuck so they have to short more, I chose otherwise.