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Nice metals rally but the XAU and HUI stocks are not rallying that much considering. Maybe later in the day.
CDE + 1.3%
HL - 2.4%
FR.to + 18.9%
PAAS + 6.1%
FVI + 3.3%
MAG + 3.5%
IPOAF - .6%
SSO + 10.4%
SLW + 5.3%
So yes HL very disappointing today. It is time for HL to play catch up.
Well we printed 1.99 maybe that is the bottom for now. Time reveals all! Bouncing up just a tad.
Tom
I am biting at the bit for mid February to come and pass so we can get the latest payments behind us. I think it is holding the stock down. BWDIK?
Of course a dollar or two rally in silver would not hurt either. <g>
Can or will this happen to HL? Can anyone point out the differences bewteen the two?
Apex Silver Files for Reorganization Under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code
2009-01-13 12:26 ET - News Release
DENVER, CO -- (MARKET WIRE) -- 01/13/09
Apex Silver Mines Limited (AMEX: SIL) (the "Company") and its wholly-owned subsidiary, Apex Silver Mines Corporation ("ASMC"), filed voluntary petitions for reorganization under Chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code (the "Bankruptcy Code") in the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York ("Bankruptcy Court") on January 12, 2009. The Company and ASMC will continue to manage their properties and operate their businesses as "debtors-in-possession" under the jurisdiction of the Bankruptcy Court.
Plan Support Agreement
On January 12, 2009, the Company and ASMC entered into a Plan Support Agreement (the "Plan Support Agreement") with Sumitomo Corporation ("Sumitomo"), eleven of the twelve lenders under the San Cristobal project finance facility (the "Senior Lenders"), and the holders of approximately 65% of the outstanding principal amount of the Company's 2.875% and 4.0% Convertible Senior Subordinated Notes due 2024 (together, the "Subordinated Noteholders"). Under the terms of the Plan Support Agreement, each of the parties thereto has agreed, following receipt of a Bankruptcy Court-approved disclosure statement, to vote in favor of a joint plan of reorganization of the Company and ASMC on the terms and conditions set forth in the Plan Term Sheet attached as part of the Plan Support Agreement.
Under the proposed plan of reorganization contemplated by the Plan Term Sheet, if the class of Subordinated Noteholders accepts the plan, the Senior Lenders will waive and release their senior claims and Subordinated Noteholders will receive a pro rata share of approximately $45 million in cash plus common stock in the reorganized Company. However, if the class of Subordinated Noteholders rejects the proposed plan, the class would receive an allocation of cash only after payment in full under the project financing facility of Sumitomo and the Senior Lenders. In such circumstances, the Subordinated Noteholders would receive common stock of the reorganized company, but might not receive any cash distributions under the proposed plan. The Company's existing shareholders would receive no distributions under the proposed plan. >>>>>>>>
This statement from 10-16-08 does provide some comfort:
<Hecla Mining Company President and Chief Executive Officer Phillips S. Baker, Jr., said, “While we had sufficient cash on our balance sheet at quarter end to repay the entire bridge loan, in these times of tight credit we elected to extend the maturity of the bridge loan to maintain additional liquidity.>
From Vicki:
<Hello Tom:
The $79 million available on the balance sheet was as of September 30 (which is the required reporting form). That’s why in the verbiage of the release we pointed out that the additional $37 million was paid after that, in the fourth quarter. We need a considerable amount of working capital and at these metals prices have been using ca sh as well, until our budget cuts are fully implemented. Hence, our emphasis on liquidity, especially since we are facing the payments on the loans in December and February of a total of $58 million.
Regards,
Vicki>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
They are close I think if we can get over this hurdle the stock should rally.
Hello Montanore and others,
I would like to post here regarding RIC but if that is not appropriate would you mind starting a RIC thread? I can add some decent information and ideas from posters on SI and from Claude Cormier of the Ormetal Report. If it is okay with Claude of course.
I feel as though it is a very strong candidate for great appreciation. Maybe not as much as HL but then it is a safer stock IMO with no debt and very good cash levels.
If you or other thread members are not interested and this is not the place I understand.
Tom
Everything you say is true Montanore. I guess we are old fashioned enough to say that credit and money supply is coming out the wazoo and things are bad enough buy gold and silver it is real. Not paper or digital credits.
The real thing. Not Coca Cola, GOLD and SILVER. And for me I have IRA's so I buy stock and get the heck kicked out of me but hey if HL gets back to the 200 DMA it should hit 5 or 6. Nice return.
Tom
<Under Clinton, the DOW rose 350%. Gold was 250 and stayed in that range for a very long time>
Yes under Rubin's and Greenscums manipulation.
<ACCOMPLICES TO CENTRAL BANK GOLD PRICE SUPPRESSION SCHEME
During the 1990’s Mr. Rubin had devised the gold leasing scheme with the intent being elucidated by Dr. Greenspan’s testimony in 1998, “Nor can private counterparties restrict supplies of gold, another commodity whose derivatives are often traded over-the-counter, where central banks stand ready to lease gold in increasing quantities should the price rise.” Many of the previously mentioned firms are alleged by GATA to be complicit players in the central bank gold price suppression scheme. Mr. Robert Landis, a graduate of Princeton University, Harvard Law School and member of the New York Bar, has asserted that “Any rational person who continues to dispute the existence of the rig after exposure to the evidence is either in denial or is complicit.” Is it possible that GLD and SLV hoards are being surreptitiously used to continue the gold price suppression scheme?>
http://www.runtogold.com/tag/robert-rubin/
The cows and horses both have been let out of the barn. I am getting ready for the gold and silver breakout. It may take a week, a month, or a year but it is coming.Even if both are knocked down for the rich to continue accumulation those of us who can afford to hold even if losing money on paper will ultimately win. JMO.
<More mines shutting down mean less gold and silver on the market>
That is very bullish for silver especially copper and zinc mines shutting down as silver is a by product of many of those mines in South America.
**Silver Series - Primary vs. By-Product Production
This graph shows that only 30% of silver production comes from primary production. The majority of silver production is a by-product from base metal mines. Base metal prices have plummeted dramatically in the last 6 months so we might expect to see this influence silver supplies in the near future.***
http://www.jimletourneau.com/2008/12/silver-series-primary-vs-by-product-production/
<They're too busy scrambling to cover the bills today.>
Quite true but look out above when this deleveraging winds down.
And HL is a very very recognized name with very safe mining locations.
I am down to the basics now having weeded out all the fluff in my portfolio. The only fly in the ointment for HL is their outstanding debt. Not sure how the stock would do long term if they sold 80,000,000 more shares to cover the debt but at that point they would own a 700 million dollar mine in Alaska and Lucky Friday which gets richer as they mine at depth. And no hedges just in case silver breaks away at some point above 25 per ounce maybe 50 once again.
I have no crystal ball but really hope we do not go sub 2.00.
I added 1870 shares on today's pullback. Gold and silver taking a hit in here. Hope that HL is working out something that will not rock the stock to the downside concerning financing. I have no idea.
GLTA!
I did direct myself to huge losses in 2008 by holding WGW and USA among some others that collapsed in value. <NG> But at least it was by my hand and not someone elses except the manipulated junior resource collapse back to prices like gold was at 350 and silver at 5.
But do you have copper wire or copper plate in a pyramid shape that you place over your head? <g>
http://www.plusvalueindia.com/pyramid.htm
Yes things very well could get ugly if this economy that is steamboating downward does not right itself in 2009 or 2010.
I have only self directed IRA $$$ so hard to buy raw silver so I own HL and RIC.
Requires balls of silver! <G>
My latest communication with HL IR Vicki who does an excellent job:
From: @aol.com [mailto:@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 8:44 AM
To: Vicki Veltkamp
Subject: Re: HL
Hi Vicki,
Did the latest financing close?
Thank you,
tom
Hello Tom:
If you are talking about the equity financing done on December 11, yes that closed a few days after that. But if you are asking what happened with the principal payment that was due at the end of December, please see the excerpt from this news release below.
Regards,
Vicki
Hecla Amends Loan Agreement
COEUR D'ALENE, Idaho--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 31, 2008--Hecla Mining Company (NYSE:HL) today announced it has reached agreement with its bank syndicate to move the scheduled December 31, 2008, principal repayment in the amount of $18.3 million on its existing term credit facilities to February 13, 2009. The amended loan agreement changes the current interest rate on the term loan of between 2.25% and 3% over LIBOR to an interest rate of 6% over LIBOR. Hecla also granted additional security interests in the assets of the company to secure the facility. As part of the agreement, Hecla will submit a corporate financial and operating plan to provide the basis for a long-term financial agreement with the bank group to be reached by February 13, 2009. Details on the amended loan agreement can be seen in the Form 8K to be filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Hecla Mining Company President and Chief Executive Officer Phillips S. Baker, Jr., said, "We are pleased that our bank group continues to work with us as we deal with a difficult time in the equity, credit and metals markets. While the rate has increased, with the current LIBOR, the interest rate is about 7.5%. Finally, moving the date of the next principal payment gives us time to concentrate on cutting our costs, to modify the loan agreement, and to look at other forms of additional financing." The credit agreement was put into place earlier this year as a result of financing the purchase of the Greens Creek joint venture, which is the world's fifth largest silver-producing mine and one of the world's lowest cost silver mines. Of the total $750 million purchase price of Greens Creek, Hecla has just $162 million in debt outstanding between its bridge and term loan credit facilities.
In addition, Hecla's Board of Directors announced the appointment of Stanley E. Speer as Chief Restructuring Officer (CRO) for the company, to provide additional strategic financial advice and liaise with the bank group. Speer is a Managing Director with the financial advisory firm of Alvarez & Marsal.
Hecla Mining Company, headquartered in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, mines, processes and explores for silver and gold in the United States and Mexico. Hecla's common and preferred shares are traded on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbols "HL," "HL-PrB" and "HL-PrC."
Considering the recent financing,the two postponements of debt payments, and that silver got beat up for over a buck lately but has bounced back for the most part I think HL has been very very resilient and is showing some good strength.
I like to "pipedream", empty pipe now days , and think HL could hit 6.00-6.75 on this next run as that is where the big breakdown occurred and is also less than a 50% retracement of the fall from the highs. But hey I do not know diddley about TA.
But am holding long and strong and have a lot of my family's, 3 of us, money in HL over 50%.
GLTA.
Well 25 dollar silver and owning all of Greens Creek will make HL shine like no tomorrow. Wonder when the 25 mark gets here? 2009? 2010? 2011? Only the shadow knows and the others that know are not telling...
Best of luck!
Me I am just holding and biding time until we hit 6 bucks or more this spring. 20 bucks later on or more in a year or two? Who knows.
I appreciate the TA. Thanks! Low of day 2.50 does that qualify as the gap fill?
Hello Dan,
HL has some hurdles but if they get over them kaboom. <G> Of course silver at 20 would help too.
Tom
Happy New Year FA,
As per my email from IR I think that HL had around 40 mill after the last payments made and a financing of about 20 mill or so so close.
Here is the email from vicki:
Posted by: loantech Date: Sunday, December 28, 2008 4:41:06 PM
In reply to: FinancialAdvisor who wrote msg# 89 Post # of 147
Thank you for the reply. Much appreciated. I think as per my email from IR the 79 million is now less 37 mill or so cash:
<Sent: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 7:59 am
Subject: RE: HL
Hello Tom:
The $79 million available on the balance sheet was as of September 30 (which is the required reporting form). That’s why in the verbiage of the release we pointed out that the additional $37 million was paid after that, in the fourth quarter. We need a considerable amount of working capital and at these metals prices have been using ca sh as well, until our budget cuts are fully implemented. Hence, our emphasis on liquidity, especially since we are facing the payments on the loans in December and February of a total of $58 million.
Regards,
Vicki>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So I was thinking just about paying the 21 mill due Dec 31 but they know what they are doing and the stock is a tiny bit green today.
All is good.
Tom
Hello Dan,
Happy New Year! I did see that NR and had hoped they would pay as scheduled. Maybe HL will try to finance at a higher share price level in FEb as they will owe a bit over 60 mill on the bridge loan and the term payment combined.
Do you own it?
Tom
Hello Montanore,
I am not happy with the HL debt payment deferment just after a recent financing.You think this might tank the stock shorter term? Now they have the bridge loan and the term loan due feb 16 and feb 13. I fear more dilution but if so maybe in the long haul that will not hurt so much. Now 62 mill or so due Mid Feb. Another 30 mill shares plus warrants coming?
Tom
I was a bit leary of CDE and have never owned it that I can recall. I have owned NGX in the past. It may rally back. Their presentation shows a lot of promise for 2009 as far as production goals. Of course they need to meet goal!
I owned WGW/WGI for a long time and had a very nice profit built in, I lost most of it if not more by holding as their early production cycles hurt the stock. So for the same reason I am afraid of MFL at this point even though my thoughts may not hold water.
Aurizon is very good and I wanted it bad just a few weeks ago but could not dump my dog (should have though) and then Aurizon went on a very nice huge run. Is it too expensive relative to it's peers now?
I wish I had nailed ARZ I hope you own it from lower levels it is a good one IMO.
Tom
Happy New Year once again to this good board. Glad I am in HL for the New Year.
I have "doggie" stock more of a junior explorer I need to sell early in the New Year and replace with a new pick.
Does the board have an opinion for either of the two following stocks to buy and hold as I am a terrible day trader I usually hold for 6 months to 2-3 years.
The other two are CDE and NGX (Northgate)
TIA for opinions pro or con. I am now off to work for 8 hours see you tonight.
Tom
It looks like gold and silver want to pull back a bit. So HL may pull back to 2.50. I am almost looking at the 2010 Jan calls at 5.00.
Let me know what you think about RIC after you look it over please.
tom
OT:My other favorite mining stock is RIC. A current politically safe Canadian Gold producer listed on the Toronto and Amex. In production costs coming down. Should produce 75,000 ounces in 2009.Estimated 1 dollar per share cash and no debt trading at 1.65-1.70 USD. A Claude Cormier favorite.He thinks we could see very good EPS and CFPS numbers in 2009 and I agree. A very conservative company IMO.
http://www.richmont-mines.com/tiki-index.php?page=HomePage
Several million ounces of gold in all categories:
http://www.richmont-mines.com/tiki-index.php?page=op_table
End of third quarter:
$29.6 million in cash and cash equivalents with no long-term debt at quarter-end;(may be less by 4-5 million after 100% acquisition of PAT and the remainder of the Island Gold project)
Very low share count for a producer with several million ounces:
BASIC WEIGHTED AVERAGE NUMBER OF
COMMON SHARES OUTSTANDING
(thousands) 23,924 (23,924,000)
http://ir.richmont-mines.com/en/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=344091
I do not believe that there is a RIC board so apologies in advance for OT post.
Right on!
woo woo and choo choo let's keep the silver train movin!
I am hoping for a big number on HL and believe it is justified in the longer haul.
The wine is quite good for the 9-15 range. At this time it is my high end. <G> They make a very good Pinot for the price IMO. I think they ship.
Tom
PS:Good action on HL this AM!
I am looking for 10! $20 POS , $6 cost, 12 million ounces produced. $1 EPS X 10 multiple = $10 X 15 multiple = 15 bucks. Hey it is possible IMO. BWDIK?
Somebody with a sharper pencil and more wise in the ways of the market could fine tune this picture.
Wowser. Of course volume these days is about 3-6 million a day average but I must admit I am not a real student of the market so I may not understand the ramification of the options. I am a dummy but hopefully not a total dummy as I own mining stocks. LOL. What a a haircut I got in 2008 though.
Thank you for the upbeat post. I got hammered so bad last year with my mining stocks I am still running scared. <g/ng>
Happy New Year!
Thank you for the reply. Much appreciated. I think as per my email from IR the 79 million is now less 37 mill or so cash:
<Sent: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 7:59 am
Subject: RE: HL
Hello Tom:
The $79 million available on the balance sheet was as of September 30 (which is the required reporting form). That’s why in the verbiage of the release we pointed out that the additional $37 million was paid after that, in the fourth quarter. We need a considerable amount of working capital and at these metals prices have been using ca sh as well, until our budget cuts are fully implemented. Hence, our emphasis on liquidity, especially since we are facing the payments on the loans in December and February of a total of $58 million.
Regards,
Vicki>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hello Montanore,
I guess I did not see where they have the cash to make the Feb payment. Recent financing does not have to go to debt repayment.
From 11/04/2008 release:
< Cash and cash equivalents $ 79,115 >
Here are some emails I sent to IR at HL read from bottom up for correct sequence:
<Tom:
If you look on our website at www.hecla-mining.com in the Investor Relations section under the SEC segment, you can find all these documents. The latest is the prospectus from Dec. 11 and I’ve excerpted a portion here. Below that is a paragraph from the third quarter 10Q, which is stating that at the end of this quarter we have an $18.3 million payment (we made one payment of that size already in September), and that at the end of each quarter, more of the term facility payment is due.
Vicki
From the Prospectus dated December 11:
The total outstanding balance of the debt facility at September 30, 2008 was $198.8 million, comprised of $121.7 million for the term facility and $77.1 million related to the bridge facility. Scheduled debt repayments on the term facility at September 30, 2008 are $18.3 million for the remainder of 2008, $48.3 million in 2009, $43.8 million in 2010 and $11.3 million in 2011. On October 16, 2008, we paid an additional $37.1 million of the bridge loan balance, and the remaining balance of $40 million was extended to February 16, 2009, subject to the requirement that a revised operating plan be submitted to the bank syndicate by November 14, 2008, which revised operating plan was timely submitted. On December 10, 2008, the bank syndicate notified us that the revised operating plan is satisfactory, thereby confirming that the remaining outstanding balance on the bridge loan must be repaid on February 16, 2009. See Note 11 of Notes to the Condensed Consolidated Financial Statements (Unaudited) to our Form 10-Q for the period ended September 30, 2008 for further discussion of our credit facility. On December 10, 2008, we received a written amendment to the credit agreement from the bank waiving (for up to $20,000,000 of net proceeds received by us by December 31, 2008) the requirement that the proceeds of this offering be used for paying down the bridge loan or term loan. Unless payment terms are extended, however, we have significant payments due in December 2008, February 2009, March 2009, June 2009, and thereafter. We may defer some capital investment activities until we secure additional capital, if necessary, to maintain liquidity. We also may pursue additional equity issuances or financing. There can be no assurances that such financing will be available to us. Failure to meet the payment obligations of our credit facilities could cause us to be in default. If there were an event of default under our senior credit facility, the affected creditors could cause all amounts borrowed under these instruments to be due and payable immediately. Additionally, if we fail to repay indebtedness under the senior credit facility when it becomes due, the lenders under the senior credit facility could proceed against the assets which we have pledged to them as security.
From the third quarter 2008 10Q:
The first term facility principal payment of $18.3 was paid on September 30, 2008. At September 30, 2008, the current portion of the $121.7 million outstanding term facility balance was $56.7 million, with the remaining $65 million classified as non-current. Scheduled debt repayments on the term facility at September 30, 2008 are $18.3 million for the remainder of 2008, $48.3 million in 2009, $43.8 million in 2010 and $11.3 million in 2011. We and all of our material U.S. subsidiaries guarantee the amended and restated credit agreement.
From: Tom
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:38 AM
To: Vicki Veltkamp
Subject: Re: HL
I am sorry to piece meal my emails Vicki, I know with some work I may find my answers but how much is the Dec 31 payment please?
Merry Christmas!
Portland is really getting a white Christmas.
Thank you for all the kind replies in 2008 and may our favorite stock have better days in 2009.
Sincerely,
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Vicki Veltkamp <vveltkamp@hecla-mining.com>
To:
Sent: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 8:16 am
Subject: RE: HL
It is due December 31.
Vicki
From:
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 7:59 AM
To: Vicki Veltkamp
Subject: Re: HL
Hi Vicki,
We are well into December, has the December payment been made owr what day is it due?
Thank you,
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Vicki Veltkamp <vveltkamp@hecla-mining.com>
To: Tom
Sent: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 9:36 am
Subject: RE: HL
Hello Tom:
I cannot make forward looking statements about the debt being paid, nor can I disclose any financial figures that have not been publicly disclosed. I’ve tried to point you to our guidance and information in the 10Q and the most recent prospectus and the news release, which basically says we are looking to extend the payments out and may do additional financing to maintain liquidity. We also need to keep cash on hand for working capital, so not all available cash can go to debt repayment. This is a quote from the latest prospectus:
“Unless payment terms are extended, however, we have significant payments due in December 2008, February 2009, March 2009, June 2009, and thereafter. We may defer some capital investment activities until we secure additional capital, if necessary, to maintain liquidity. We also may pursue additional equity issuances or financing. There can be no assurances that such financing will be available to us.”
That’s the latest public disclosure at this time.
Regards,
Vicki
From:
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 7:17 AM
To: Vicki Veltkamp
Subject: Re: HL
Hi Vicki,
Does HL have the cash or liquid instruments on hand now or after the most recent financing that is happening now to cover the 58 million due in DEC and FEB?
Thank you,
Tom
Sent: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 7:59 am
Subject: RE: HL
Hello Tom:
The $79 million available on the balance sheet was as of September 30 (which is the required reporting form). That’s why in the verbiage of the release we pointed out that the additional $37 million was paid after that, in the fourth quarter. We need a considerable amount of working capital and at these metals prices have been using cash as well, until our budget cuts are fully implemented. Hence, our emphasis on liquidity, especially since we are facing the payments on the loans in December and February of a total of $58 million.
Regards,
Vicki
From:
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 4:59 PM
To: Vicki Veltkamp
Subject: Re: HL
Thank you Vicki. I will have to look at the last quarter report but I thought it said "we" HL had about :
Cash and cash equivalents
$
0A
79,115
$
Short-term investments and securities held for sale
2,428
Accounts and notes receivable
17,344
=0 D
Inventories
17,408
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
About 116 million in cash and investments and acccounts etc recievable? That is why I was surprised with the financing. I assume that amount was after the payments on the loans :
<At the end of the third quarter, Hecla had $81.5 million in cash and short -term investments. Early in the fourth quarter, Hecla repaid $37.1 million of the bridge loan>
<Net proceeds of $163 million in connection with a common stock offering in September 2008>
<Repayment of $200 million of the $240 million bridge loan due October 16, 2008, with an extension of the maturity date for the remainder of the loan >
Leaves about 79 million roughly before the last fiancing? That is why I was surpirsed I guess. Maybe my thoughts and numbers are way off base. Your help is appreciated.
Thank you for all you do.
Best regards,
Tom
Montanore please see this message:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=34437463
OT:Close to your handle spelling is a nice winery in Oregon:
http://www.montinore.com/
Hello Raven,
I have posted for years on SI under the same name. Glad I found the HL IHUB board as there is little interest in HL on SI that I have noticed.
My concern and I own about 25K of HL is the term loan payment due 12/31 and the larger bridge loan due in Feb. 2009.
Will there be more dilution and can HL cash flow the amounts needed for future term payments which are not small in comparison to cash or cash equivalents on hand?
I will appreciate all responses. TIA.
Tom
Thank you woohoo CGLD is holding up much better than some of my others.
Tom
Hello WOOHOO,
Thank you for all of your hard and good work. Using that number and projecting it to 5.44 cents per year?? What type of multiple would a stock such as Capital Gold have.
TIA.
Tom
<In December 2007, we completed an additional 26 hole reverse circulation drilling program amounting to
4,912 meters. The drill holes were mainly positioned to test the outer limits of the currently known ore
zones. The results of this drilling campaign have not yet been included in our resource model as we
continue to receive assay results.>>>
These results have not been made public as far as I know BWDIK?
http://www.stockwatch.com/nocomp/newsit/newsit_sedardoc.aspx?docid=1569746