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Nice to hear, Knot...
One day I hope to join you there.
blue
What you obviously fail to understand Torvecian
is if you bring some concrete and interesting news to this board you will be mocked OT. Its pretty lame and so transparent as to be insulting. Thanks for the info.
For my part, there were big purchases yesterday on this nothing news. Obviously the self-anointed experts here have opposing views which are backed with money. That impresses me far more than hot air.
In general, partnering to share resources and strengths is recognized as a desirable thing. The synergy here could help with financing, patent refinements, public exposure. RIT no doubt has many many connections to moneyed individuals, institutions, and organizations. Welcome aboard RIT
Does anyone here think that R.I.T. doesn't have
a respectful following in the automotive engineering world?
The Case of the Petulant Posters...
I would submit that the CEO updates have lot more meat on them than 99% of the posts I see here, and I for one welcome them. For example, the progress with the Air Force deeply interests me.
It's actually part of management's job to keep us informed, and if the news is disappointing to you, it is still the job. Just don't read them if you don't like them. And if you think Jim is so busy this is detracting from the overall effort, you are meeting yourself coming back.
KNOT BAD, NOT BAD AT ALL....eom
The trading was very abnormal, Torvecian,
as I thought and you confirm. So I have cooked up an explanation in the heat of my own fevered brain. It is far-fetched perhaps, but it has logic to it and nothing else does, and a dash of melodrama, so I cannot resist putting it out:
Someone is deliberately sending a message to the faithful.
I do not infer there is a deal, or a certainty of anything, but only the message stand fast. Sort of a cheap thrill on my part, I guess.
Can Torvecian or anyone explain to me
why someone would buy a large block of this stock above the ask? I do not get it. Anyone who has followed this stock knows the MMs keep their thumb on the bid/ask, so you could buy in increments all day and not fear in the slightest that you would drive your price way up. Only explanation I see is urgency; but then if something is about to happen you got insider trading charges against you. Unless you think you could beat that. Still I do not expect a big break-out just because of this buy. This has in fact happened before with no such. So...what's the deal?
Well, the week that Dread asked for
is up, and since it was my idea I would like to thank those who participated. It was kinda interesting though at bottom I guess predictable. At least, for me, it was very refreshing to hear some straight talk like there used to be. I get so tired of those playing ape at the zoo.
I won't try to sum up. Have a great weekend all.
I follow the board because it once had information or opinions that were of interest, and it is a simple click to see if that is happening again; and I post usually to thank someone for their input.
I remain long because:
while the pace is exceedingly slow the trend—overall—is without doubt positive;
the technology is extremely important and has never been brought into serious question, rather is repeatedly endorsed or proven after broader exposure;
the company has breadth in its line, the commercialization of any one of which will probably well reward my patience;
the company owns the patents;
the insiders who know what I do not remain quite positive (see CEO update of Dec 08) and they would be foolish legally to pretend to be;
the insiders, including family, have a lot of stock and could probably have justified to themselves a sell-out earlier if they thought this was not going anywhere;
negotiations are being properly conducted or the board would have defections;
I could not bear to miss out on the finish I still have reason to expect, simply out of impatience.
Dread, I think it would be interesting...
maybe even constructive...
if all posters and lurkers--at your behest--were asked to make one post that answered the following two questions in one sentence only for each:
Why are you posting or just following this board?
Why are you long, (or short if you are willing to say)?
Of course, nothing stops them from going on from there but if they do not provide the first two sentences--separate, alone-- they are not being responsive, probably deliberately vague or incendiary. There must be some discipline to the answers for them to be of value to us all for comparison purposes. And if they do not respond, that is interesting too.
Think about it.
I agree dino...
to sell a block at the bid tells me it was sold for someone and not by someone...anyone just wanting to get out would try to get the best they could over some period of time and not just sell off at the bottom dollar.
Other than that, I don't know what was going on.
Thanks KNOTmeister
I don't know what to make of that but there it is.
Oh! Thanks for the responses.
Yes, Knot, whence the reference to Austria? Don't find it.
I am delighted with this development.
The intrinsic value of Torvec continues to rise. It is a treasure trove of technology.
In my mind I compare this situation with an auction at Sotheby's where an acknowledged masterpiece is up for bids. There is however, an minimum bid and if it is not made for whatever reason, the item is withdrawn. Terribly frustrating, and certainly I feel it here myself, but it also happens in other theaters of activity.
I note also that this was a newswire. The folks are certainly excited and are therefore getting this word out, and quickly. This is what we all expect of them.
Somewhere we will reach a tipping point; I just hope it is before I tip out a window.
Why do I feel like I am talking to myself?
"the yahoo`s keep singing their song..."
This company appears to have a powerful hold on people. Even those who have a low opinion of Torvec can't let go. It is a real tribute to management, don't you think?
I am sure none of us want Torvec to fail, do we.
LOL. Sometimes the BS* gets to be too much for me.
KTF says he/she does not contribute much to the board. That's OK. It is better not to post and not to contribute than to post and not contribute.
BTW what guardian angels are pumping their money into our company?
(Go ahead and delete)
*Board sophistry
The fact is there is simply no truly objective measure of the value of Torvec stock, now or over the years.
There is such a measure of GM stock.
To compare any NYSE stock to the trend line of any OTCBB
stock is just absurd. The latter is subject to manipulation while the former is not.
I also believe if Torvec were truly valued by the marketplace, its trend line would be going up. I cannot prove that. Except apparently a lot of stand-fast stockholders are of the same view.
Did Allison pay about 10M US
for 10% of Torotrack plus licensing rights? Is that it?
I'm glad for you if you are glad but if that happened with Torvec I would jump from a window.
"as long as he gets the job done"
That sir, is the road to perdition. If you believe in democratic government.
Of course, there is the IF
as we can agree. However, I am uplifted at the prospects, and also by those elements in government who will vouch for us, eg, Air Force, NASA. I feel the pieces may be falling into place, and I dearly hope so.
Like was said of the Texas Rangers...
They just keep comin'.
I see a lot more potential in this. Need to think this over. Government funding, thence more public exposure, interest, even buying?
A company becoming more and more unsinkable. What will the shorts think?
A company becoming more attractive to suitors.
A certain savy in fielding a young team to represent this young company...with contacts in government and business who are also young and on the rise.
Truly the potential of the perfect storm. And it is indeed an ill wind (our current economic...embarrassment, shall I say)that blows nobody good.
Interesting, Dad of 3. Thanks. EOM
It's happy hour again at four.
A great opportunity to hurl invective at posters who don't post what you like.
"All seriousness aside" (said Steve Allen), I hope all take a deep breath this weekend; and for some you, hold it...hold it...hold it...hold....
Neither would I.
I was just saying that IMO there are folks out there so fed up with no home run yet that to these receipts they would say so what...Is that all there is?
And NASA was not about money ever; it was about prestige.
If that's what they said, llocust,
I'm glad. Because that order does in fact mean nothing to shareholders in money or in proving the product. It is proven already, or if more is necessary you don't need 2000 of them. It would use up Torvec's limited production capabilities to no purpose at all. If Nissan wants more of these, it can make a deal. Torvec is not Nissan's machine shop. Once it is to our advantage to make them, we can. Now Nissan can do without something it apparently wants--good. You let these giants lead you around by the nose and they will treat you like dirt. If this order were in fact filled the sceptics would be mocking it. Now you mock it was not done.
I am tired of this beef.
Happy Hour is from 4-5PM EST today.
Free private posts.
I begin to see now.
And new curtains for the front office. The list does go on and on.
Here is the quote from the meeting: "The revenues generated by this license...will more than cover our OPERATING COSTS and would put us in a position to declare a SIGNIFICANT PORTION...as a dividend to our shareholders...." (emphasis added) I ask what would you do with our $50M and you respond with the rough equivalent of a grocery list.
There are 31.5 M shares outstanding. Enough left over for operating costs, your school bus, and a few more expenses. As for your other particulars, I was amused especially by "hire more engineers." You can really take the reins in your hands. You know about that need, do you.
They could use you in Congress right now as it too is coming up with a list that goes and goes of all the ways to spend money to stimulate and almost all of them miss the mark. But like you they believe "there are millions of ways to invest..." It's so easy. Especially done in ignorance.
Finally, this from the TOS:
"The 'rules of the road' are fairly simple in principle. Conduct yourself generally as you would at a gathering where polite people might attend. Watch your language. Avoid rudeness...."
I am fed up with your impudent forms of address: Now it is "cowboy." Use that in a polite gathering and one day you will leave the room with a bloody nose. For my part, I will simply turn my back on you.
Will you talk with anyone?
OK. You run Torvec. It has received 50M bucks for a license. You immediately tell Finance to put it in a money market account. Good move. Now what do you do with it? Not all of it, just tell us the first three major things you will spend our money on, let us say. $50M! Whatever they are they need to be income-producing or directly related. A new and larger manufacturing facility 10 time the size (did I say 10, no, 20 times)? But you do not have the orders to justify it even long term and if future revenues center on licenses, the plant will never go into production on any scale. Huge loss. So what is it? You know business, and you are usually willing to tell others where they are wrong and you are right. So... a short,spcecific response will do and I do not answer to "Dude" or "Bud" if you please.
Retained for what exactly?
I do not understand why a company like Torvec would put $50M in the bank and sit on it like a dragon on a pile of gold. It only needs a fraction of that to meet other production demands which would in turn be paid off out of receipts. This is royalty income going to the bottom line; putting most of it out in dividends leaves the company in the same or better shape it was before.
Declaring a dividend rewards shareholders, brings in more, gets wider attention as the deal is with a large company, and pushes up the stock price, which in turn facilitates new funding if ever needed.
So why on earth sit on $50M instead of making some use of it?
Someone educate me on this.
I also agree.
You have corrected read the CEO message and the outcome at the meeting which was of course disappointing.
What you have to figure in is simply Battle Fatigue. Some are just tired and wish the war was over and they could go home, and who can blame them for that. But to lash out at leadership with claims of bluff and lies is not warranted by the message or the progress of the war. We are all tired and I am sure that includes management. But I believe we are about to cross the Rhine.
I feel constrained to say
for those out there like you with no sense of irony,
that of course I do not believe it was Bush and Cheney.
That was a joke. Get it?
It was really Pope Benedict. (Uh-oh).
So many are getting so hysterical
--and I use that word in both its senses--that I have decided to waste my time making contrary observations.
For the first time, Torvec has disclosed the form of the specific proposal it has received (license), and for the first time disclosed the offering price given (!!), and for the first time signaled this is quite acceptable (!!), and for the first time indicated what brought the other side to terms (success with the Air Force). That is a succinct summary of negotiations not yet concluded!!
And it made quite clear what stands in the way of an immediate conclusion--the economic environment--so apparently the parties are in substantial agreement. Crisis or not, the proposal would not have even been placed on the table IMO if the other side deemed it ultimately infeasible. Personally, I do not hold our management responsible for the world-wide economic crisis, that is obviously Bush and Cheney.
As I say, this is new and considering the constraints of confidentialy, stunning, as we can be sure all this is done with the consent of the other party. To me that indicates we are nearly there. But how long that is no one knows.
I was serious as regards the isotorque reference
you made which seemed so certain. So OK you are making an educated guess.
BTW you are the object of a violation of the TOU, and personally I would take exception.
"When JG announces a major development a week from Thursday (at the latest), it is very likely to involve the Iso-torque differential technology."
How on earth do you know that??
"I don't want Torvec to sell anything, including the entire company, for a penny less than what it is worth."
And THAT, in a nutshell, is why it has taken so long. Not incompetence or any of the other slams. And that is the Gleasman mantra. So take heart that they are looking forward to the meeting.
I agree with much of your post. I am not expecting just an upbeat update, and IMO that is not what was being signaled by the CEO release.
It could I suppose. Nice to imagine.
At least you have demonstrated that there is a lot going on in the sea in which Torvec swims and it would be simplistic to think of the dynamics as simply one-on-one.
This is a three-dimensional chessboard (to mix metaphors).
I just cannot visualize a negotiator getting up from the bargaining table saying I have to excuse myself to go announce to our shareholders I BELIEVE I have a deal. Not in the middle of negotiations and certainly not at the end game either. So to my mind a deal is already made or the announcement(s) is not about a deal at all.
If a deal is made, it could be contingent on some things no party controls; or for some other reason not all parties are willing to now announce to the world it is finalized. If not a deal, what on earth could have happened that would induce management to effectively say, if you knew what we know you would buy more stock? I sure cannot imagine.
But in my opinion management is confident that shareholders will feel the development was indeed worthy of this obliquely given advice; or will be willing to forgive management for the failure to deliver considering what intervened. Nothing is in the bag but it looks awfully good, and it will be announced at or before the meeting.
Now I've got you.
If he had used the word "once" none of it would have made sense.
I guess I'm tapped out at this point. :)
Rather, the use of the word "bail" three times
is an obvious allusion to 2 Corinthians 5:11 wherein it
is said, "knowing therefore the fear of...."
(give me a break!)
From the preceeding sentence re: stock ownership
I would infer he was talking about how the board and management own millions of shares. A rhetorical flourish by our CEO.