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LMAO! Love your disclaimer!
Impossible to do any meaningful DD on a non reporting company. It's all anyone's guess as to what will or will not happen next with FFGO or any pink sheet company for that matter. I'm just here to buy their shares low and sell them higher, company fundamentals don't interest me. I'll let you provide the meaningful links if you require them to trade.
I currently hold 10M shares at .0003 (.00029 each cost). I'm confident I'll be able to sell at a profit. Tell you what, I'll worry about my portfolio if you worry about yours ;)
I confirmed it with my ScotTrade broker.
Here, do the math. I purchased 5.4M shares today and my total cost including commission of $14.83 was $1580.83. $1580.83 minus $14.83 equals $1566.00. $1566 divided by 5.4M share equals a purchase price of $0.00029.
My broker charges a 1/2% premium on penny stocks in addition to the $7.00 flat fee. So $1566.00 net purchase times 1/2% equals $7.83. $7.83 plus the $7.00 flat fee equals the $14.83 commission. So the bottom line is this; I bought today @ .00029 but it didn't show up on the streamer as such. But I couldn't care less what the streamer shows, I know what I paid, and it was a buy, not a sell. That's conformation enough for me.
I'm not going to discuss this any further because I'm simply wasting my time trying to convince someone who hasn't bought and experienced what I and others have first hand. You want proof? Then try buying! And if you choose to believe that I am lying I'm perfectly OK with that as I know what the truth is now.
Anything going off on the streamer under .0003 was showing as sells at .0002. I'm sure some were really sells at .0002, but now I know FIRST HAND there was at least my 5.4M share buy at .00029 mixed in on the sell side. And I'm not naive enough to think that I was the only one buying today at .00029.
When the ask is at .0003 and the bid is at .0002, a .00029 buy will appear as a .0002 sell on the streamer because it's less than the .0003 ask and there are no other options as the streamer won't go more than 4 digits to the right of the decimal. Or at least that's the way I'm interpreting all this.
Yes I have considered that maybe the streamer software doesn't show more than 4 places to the right of a decimal point and thus buys 1/100,000 less than the ask will show up as a sell on the streamer. And I can accept that as that's probably the case. But that doesn't explain why the MMs sold to me for .00029 when I offered the ask of .0003. I pocketed the $54 difference that I fully intended to give them on my 5.4M share purchase. Explain that one to me.
I confirmed it today. A lot of buys at .00029 in there "appearing" to be sells at .0002.
True, the market makers don't exactly care what the price is as they make their money on the spread on each trade. Buttttttt, it's in their best interest to create either fear or greed in our minds to entice us to either buy or sell thus creating trading volume that wouldn't exist if we were all complacent. Right now they're playing the fear card to generate the trades. Next they'll be playing the greed card. Watch and learn.
I can vouch for Vianna. I added 5.4M shares today. I offered the ask @ $0.0003 and they filled at $0.00029 and it looked on the streamer to be a sell @ $0.0002. Find out for yourself and put an order in and you'll see that we're not full of you know what.
Like I was saying before, FFGO is damned if they do and damned if they don't. They will never be able to do anything that will satisfy those whose only purpose on earth is to bash this company. For example:
FFGO files an 8-K ...
"Oh look, Santini is using 8-K's as personal press releases, shame on him!"
FFGO doesn't file an 8-K ...
"Wait a minute. That was a material event in that press release! Why didn't Santini put that in an 8-K? The stupid idiot!"
FFGO announces a cash dividend ...
"FFGO will NEVER pay a cash dividend, period! End of story! It's nothing but their usual lies!"
FFGO pays a cash dividend ...
"LMAO, look how small that was! Like THAT’S going to help everyone’s portfolio after all they lost!”
FFGO announces cancellation of shares ...
"It will snow in hell before that ever happens! No way! No how!"
FFGO cancels shares ...
"What took them so long? And like cancelling those shares will help anything, look how many they still have left!"
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.
All the drama over a stock in the triple zeros, how hilarious! Just trade it and make or lose money for God’s sake ... or find something a little more positive to do with your time!
Agreed. In my opinion when firms are touting stocks to their clients they're dumping. And vice versa. When they tell their clients to sell they're loading the boat.
I use to subscribe to the Wall Street Journal before online trading and research was popular. And every so often (quarter I think) they'd ask 5 top analysts for their top stock pick and then compare the performance of those 5 stocks later to 5 stocks selected randomly by the throws of darts, what they called the dart board portfolio.
The WSJ did this for many years, they may still do it but I haven't picked up a Wall Street Journal newspaper for several years. But to get to my point, the amazing thing was that the dart board portfolios outperformed the top gurus portfolio the majority of the time, and often by huge margins LMAO!
And it's a proven fact that most money managers such as mutual fund managers, etc., over the long haul can't match the performance of the unmanaged S&P 500 Index. That alone should tell you something about analysts. I use to invest in stock mutual funds until I got sick and tired of the professionals losing my money most of the time (even in good markets) but still charging me fees. I figured that if I was going to lose money I might as well lose it on my own and at least be ahead by the fees that I save.
Best decision that I ever made.
You're right, I "did" LOL. But I ended up modifying the order just to make sure I got a fill. I got tired of seeing that open order just sitting there. I ended up slapping the ask at 17 when the bid was 16. I thought that was a good enough price all things considered.
How can you expect freshness out of government offices when they still use dot matrix printers and DOS operating systems on 386 computers?
Who knows, maybe Lumb is Richie Rich? I use to like his comic books when I was a kid. But that would make Lumb 55 years old because Richie was born in 1953. Damn! I thought I was on to something!
So, the S&P has a crystal ball? They only wish prices will be falling over the next 3+ years. I made the mistake once of only buying stocks that they had 5 star ratings on and talk about a joke! Of the 6 that I purchased only one moved up after a year and it was AAPL. The others I had to give away at double digit % losses. Their 12 month projections on the other 5 were so far off the mark that it wasn't even funny. Never again will I make the mistake of acting on their opinions.
So in other words, all unrealized losses in a person's investment portfolio on 12/31/2008 can be used to offset all realized gains for the year on a person's 1040? I don't think so. "Myth" my rear!
The number of shares in the float is no mystery. Just an email or phone call away. "Why" the float is the size it is is a non-issue in my opinion because it's after the fact so it's a moot point.
For UPDVE's SEC filings here's a decent link:
http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/default.aspx?cik=923771
Add it to your favorites.
I don't think any of today's action was company dilution. The dollar volume is too insignificant. There were 117 trades of only about $500 each (average trade size 303,690 shares). That's not the company selling, it's just a few small time holders bailing out at any cost (the bid) due to the MM shake out.
I don't understand the part of your post where you're saying the 10Q will show less outstanding? Unless maybe you're talking less shares outstanding on June 30th than today. In my opinion, the past few weeks of this going down on low volume wasn't company dilution, just retail selling. UPDVE was most likely diluting on the heavier volume days of 60M+ shares when prices were in the .005 to .008 range.
I'll set my alarm clock just in case I fall asleep. But I was somewhat disappointed last night because he didn't call anyone "little man" (his trademark) like he did the last time after he went off the deep end.
And looking through my rose colored glasses and always trying to make lemonade out of a lemon, at least UPDV closed up over 21% today from it's intra-day low.
We're in the same camp. I am not an advocate of holding ANY OTCBB long term. But I made an exception with UPDV because:
a) They're a real company.
b) They're generating substantial revenues
c) Revenues over the past 4 quarters through Mar 31, 2008 have been growing at a faster clip than expenses. (of course, the amendments may prove me wrong on this bullet point, but for now with what I have to work with that's what I see).
d) They’re in an industry that should do well into the next several years at least. I don’t believe for a minute as other talking heads that oil is done for. It will continue to ratchet higher over the next many years as more nations industrialize and increase their demands for it. And as the world demands increase, supplies are going to have a hard time keeping up which in turn will keep the price high. And where there is oil there is gas too, and UPDV’s into both.
e) I feel the company isn’t fairly valued.
and finally,
f) They’re a diversified holding company which helps to limit risks of failure on their part.
Yes, the shareholders have been failing lately, but only because of the disconnect between company fundamentals and share price. This out of balance condition may linger for some time but I think eventually things will even out if Kamal can continue to execute.
I think the reason for such a low company value is because many perceive Kamal as just another OTCBB shyster who's only interest in life is to fleece the retail shareholders out of their hard earned money. I don't see him as that. I may be 100% wrong on my perception of him, but I see him as a CEO who has been executing quite nicely on what he has been given to work with.
Growing a company is not easy and it takes many years of blood, sweat, tears and throwing tons of money at it. I know. I've been there. I started a C corporation on a shoestring budget and grew it into a 21 year career that put food on the table, a roof over my head, and two kids through 12 years of private school and four years of public college.
Now reflecting back, I look at all that blood, sweat, tears, and money as simply fertilizer, sun and rain on a growing plant. I came close many times in the early years to throwing in the towel, but I toughed it out and I'm thankful today that I did. I had many naysayers in the day just as Kamal does now, and I just hope that he hangs in there and is the man as I perceive him to be. If I’m wrong, he cost me some money but I’ll accept the loss and move on to greener pastures.
I did at .0017 and it filled within seconds and in one lot even though I didn't select AON. See my post 8281 and 8282. Seems to be a good supply of shares for sale. Dilution? Who cares at this price? Even if 4B shares outstanding (which currently isn't the case, my guess 1B or so) still a bargain, so in my opinion there's room for growth in SP.
I remember back then too and it was a beautiful thing watching my UPDV portfolio jump 24K in a week or so. But easy come easy go sometimes. I still think we'll get that loving feeling back but I still won't settle for .008. I have a GTC sell order in at 1.5 cents to sell about 35% of my shares to lock in some gains. But the core of free shares I'll let ride higher yet. Maybe pull a few more off at a nickel or so then let a chunk ride to 25 cents and 50 cents. Laugh at this if you want, but that's my game plan. I still haven't lost faith in UPDA like the majority has. Maybe I'm the dummy, but we'll ultimately find out. And I'm fully committed to keep a stash of shares locked away for an UPDV market cap of $50M-$75M and I don't care if it takes 10 years to get there. Of course I'll be shocked if UPDV is still in the O&G business (or any business at all) that far into the future. Most small companies don't last that long.
Best of luck to us!
OK. I'm done buying now. Let er rip! Rip upwards that is LOL. My gut tells me that the all time low of .0013 may be tested soon. If it bounces sharply off of that then that would suggest pretty decent support, but if it falls below that, then there appears to be no bottom. But I still feel good with what I have and where I'm at on this. Not making money yet, but I think better times are forthcoming and the longs will once again be smiling.
There has to be a limit to this downdraft madness. It's priced right today if UPDV comes out and says we filed for BK protection. Not that that can't happen, I just don't think so any time soon (or at least I hope not ... I really know nuthin).
Secondly, look at the actual money volume trading hands. It's nothing really. 50 some grand is just a few more weak hands exiting stage left. Now I'd be a little more concerned if the daily dollar volume on this downdraft was in the half million dollar range as that would speak volumes. But it's not, so in my opinion it's just the market makers capitalizing on the fear that they've been creating because of UPDV's late 10Q. They've created a pretty good snowball affect of it. But in my opinion, as the MM's are fleecing the weak, they're simultaneously loading up on their inventories, getting ready to capitalize on people's greed as they decide to let this run the other direction. It's a game I tell ya. But right now they're winning at it and the people selling now are losing.
Oh and I almost forgot ... A sincere thank you to who ever sold to me! I'm the proud bag-holder of 5.4M shares now.
Like I said earlier, it's only money. And when the property value of my home blew off $50K in the past 12 months, what's another $25K as a gamble? Might as well have fun gambling on this. At least there is potential for reward here. Not so much potential for my home as I see it in this housing market meltdown and the long term ramifications of it.
PS: I don’t care if UPDV is diluting the crap out of this at this price. Even if they double the AS to 4B shares and fully dilute to that that only leaves them with a paltry market cap of $6.8M for $70M in revenues. Loving this!!!! Am I the only one who sees this? Talk about a MM shake down and playing the fear card! This is classic!
Gottem!!! Yippie!!!
I agree, I mentioned them two items as positives. On another note, wish me luck. Just put in an order to pick up 1,166,470 shares at .0017. Don't ask me why the oddball number, but I have a method to my madness. Come on guys (not directed at you), I'll take shares off your hands.
Can't blame you then. You know the saying; burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me ... or something to that affect. Never was good at cliché’s.
And we have Lumb to thank for that. When he's on this forum, it's better than watching a good comedy. My side still hurts from laughing so much late last night and early this morning. Can't wait till he emerges again.
Has anyone been able to buy today at .0002? I haven't been able to.
Thanks itsonlymuni. You are 100% correct. I stand corrected. Missed that 10Q somehow, sorry about that.
But what still concerns me is if you go back to look at that May 8K (copy/paste below), doesn't it look like they were waiting for the same approval from the SEC like they still are today?
"... The company will file such amendments as soon as their responses to the SEC comments have been approved by the SEC and the Company completes its analysis and its independent registered accountant completes its review procedures and audit work with respect to the Form 10-KSB..."
http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=5924831-1179-9295&type=sect&TabIndex=2&companyid=4786&ppu=%252fdefault.aspx%253fcik%253d923771
The way it's worded, one would assume that UPDA already responded to the SEC back then and were waiting for the SEC to get back to them. My question is this; why are they still waiting for the SEC's approval? What's taking the SEC so long? It's been 4 months already. UPDV doesn't have the luxury of time on it's side any longer. They need the SEC's stamp of approval ASAP in my opinion.
Since that May 8K, the positives are that it appears that UPDV has completed their analysis and the accountant has completed their review and audits, but the only negative is that they're still waiting for the SEC to sign off on their adjustments.
Maybe that May 8K wasn't worded right so I'm interpreting all this wrong. It could be that back in May, UPDV hadn't even submitted a response to the SEC but were anticipating to do so, and if that's the case that would explain a lot.
Comments welcome and appreciated.
Well, it's my opinion that you'll get that back plus a penny per share in a relatively short amount of time. A few months maybe, but longer if we have to wait until November for June numbers like back in 06. I've paid over a dime/sh for some of my UPDA but got my average costs down to $0.0048 when it tanked to .0013.
If things go my way tomorrow I hope to pick up at least 1.1M more shares and get my average down to .0042 or less. That's assuming I can buy at .0018 or less. Should this go up tomorrow, I'll just leave the dry powder in my account and wait for another opportunity in this, or some other play.
My opinions.
I can see why Lumb needs so many body guards. From what I've been able to find out about him he appears to be an absolute jerk. And if that was really him posting on this message board a while back, add psychopath to the list.
I consider them a shell, or possibly a holding company. OK, a holding shell ... yeah, that's the ticket!
I know pontalba. I was just pointing out some of the other tricks that small companies like to use as well.
Fair enough Kaptian. Thanks. Kind of like the glass half full or half empty cliché. The half full people copy and paste the top half of fluff PRs, the half empty folks copy and paste the lower half. Not that you're half empty ;)
On paper, I'm down $13K on UPDV alone. But I feel that one day people will come to their senses and do some basic math.
Look, UPDV has 2B shares authorized with probably half that outstanding. Let's figure worst case scenario and they fully dilute to 2B shares tomorrow. 2B shares times the current price of $0.0018 equals a market cap of $3.6M. Come on guys! That's currently the WORST case scenario. UPDV should do somewhere around $70M in revenues this year. The market cap today in my opinion is only $1.8M. $1.8M for a $70M company??!! Look around on the OTCBB at other O&G companies and you'll see market caps of well over $20M for companies currently generating ZERO revenues and with balance sheets much more stressed than UPDV's. How does one justify this disconnect?
I still say that one day UPDV's share price will more align with their fundamentals, and I'll be sitting very pretty. In my opinion UPDV is currently worth a minimum of $0.018 (or 10 bagger from the current price).
Regarding paper gains and losses in your portfolio …. just as you don't make money unless you actually sell higher than what you paid, you don't lose money either unless you actually sell lower than what you paid.
Can UPDV go bust? Of course they can just like any company. But where there is potential for high risk, there is also potential for high rewards.
My opinions.
I think we'll see them all filed at the same time or within a day of each other. But in my opinion we're probably talking the November 14-21 time frame ... a long time from now unfortunately :(
My guess is we'll see all the amended returns and the second quarter 2008 10-Q filed along with the third quarter 2008 10-Q like they did in a similar debacle back in 2006. Back then, UPDA's 2006 second quarter 10-Q was filed on November 21, 2006, along with their 2006 third quarter 10-Q and 2005 10KSB. Very similar situation this time.
I hope I'm wrong and they all get filed next week, but I'm expecting the worst so I won't be shocked if they come out November 21st ish. I don't think the newbies holding this will be able to tolerate such a delay (us old timers usually expect delays with UPDA), so my guess is there'll be more wholesale dumping creating even more buying opportunities for those still wishing to buy. And there is a real possibility of them being relegated to the pinks unless they get their act in order.
The rules are somewhat confusing:
"... In addition, repeated delinquencies by a company in filing complete periodic reports with the SEC or other applicable regulator, or removal of the company's security from quotation on the OTCBB because of its failure to file required reports within the prescribed period, can result in the security becoming ineligible for quotation on the OTCBB for a one-year period.
Specifically, if an OTCBB-quoted company is delinquent in filing complete required annual and quarterly reports with the applicable regulator three times in the prior two-year period, quotations of a security on the OTCBB will be prohibited until the company has timely filed in complete form all required reports due in a one-year period. Further, if a security is removed from the OTCBB twice in the prior two-year period, the security is subject to removal from quotation on the OTCBB until the company has timely filed in complete form all required reports due in a one-year period. For more detailed information, please read FINRA Rule 6530..."
So, does the stock go up or down tomorrow because of today's 8-K? I'm OK either way. If it goes down I have another couple grand to throw at it. If it goes up, I have a green Friday because of my current position (UP Friday's are rare so I'll happily welcome one).
On a final note, where can I get a decent pair of rose colored glasses? My old one's are pretty much worn out ;)
Disclaimer: My opinions. Long UPDV.
Also, it's quite common for small companies to lease space from a "virtual office". If you Google virtual office you'll get a bunch of hits and the rates are cheap. Some are nice looking 20 story glass and steel office buildings so when people Google your addy on your business card or website they're impressed. But little does the person know that you just pay $300/mo for a shared office and boardroom in that building that you can use 10 hours a month. For an additional fee they'll even put your placard in the lobby of that fancy building with your business name and suite number on it to make it look real legit to the public. It's all about perception in business. You don't have to be good or big, just perceived that way by the unsuspecting public.
Also, many small companies just use a local post office as their "virtual office". They simply show their address as that of the local post office, but instead of a PO Box number they show a Suite number. There's nothing illegal about any of this (in fact I do it). Maybe a little deceptive, but not illegal. That's why when I do DD on a business I always first try to determine whether or not "X" company is operating out of a virtual office or a post office. It's easy to do, just type the address (or part of it such as street name and zip code) into Google along with the words post office or virtual office and look for a match.
My opinions.