is... a buy and hold investor of dividend US and Canadian stocks
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depends what you mean by "near". We are talking about the country here, address numbers that close can be quite far away. Definitely not a stone's throw, but definitely near by country standards. Anyway, it was not on my mind when I was there, I was not looking for it, did not throw stones at anything around... and no it is not that near.
yes i did. the address on the company website is 1783, which is admittedly close. anyway I don't remember it, no.
nah... the fresh coat of paint was already there. I questioned the colors used a bit, but I really could not say that it was a problem either.
You know what... I have actually been to the blending site. There is no Solid waste facility near it. I can pretty much state that for a fact.
There is an aerial view available on Google... another way of looking at it.
why don't you spell it out. sometimes the obvious is not that obvious. I remember doing software integration testing at a large American company. Someone mentioned "millions" of records (database records) as being a reasonable number for performance testing purposes. I seriously did NOT know if she was joking or not. I am glad no one asked me. I said nothing.
It has to be explained.
I think that they would need 40-100T of plastic on-hand to ensure reliable 24X7 operation. (What about snow days... LOL).
I think that is ALOT of plastic... requiring a dedicated structure... building.
what do you think?
don't you think it is a little bit more complicated than that?
what about transportation permits, etc... for SW?
yes i know. interesting statement from the filing:
"The recycling facility accepts, separates and processes paper, plastics and other materials.
"
so this recycling facility will sort plastic, hence they are sorting their own feedstock now. was discussed some time ago.
obviously... they have a need to store feedstock for input to the P2O process. This has created a SW problem that they did not foresee. I am surmising that the SW site they are leasing is now their source of feedstock. Hence, a logistics problem. Seems pretty obvious to me.
Would it not be preferable to have the feedstock on-site from a logistical point-of-view?
I just posted on this.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=57822833
I had a quick scan of it. It appears to be boilerplate stuff and does not appear to address the handling of Solid Waste, rather just potential Air Emissions.
Leaves a bit of a gap in understanding of how they are to handle their feedstock during this period of operation while they are generating the remainder of their documentation leading to the SW permit.
Just an observation.
I as not aware of any refinery being involved or that the third processor was to be located there. What refinery? what matters is proximity to the NY P2O site.
Without further funding I doubt they are starting to build anything. Those mechanics and fine craftsmen that love that machine shop are probably being paid on a contract basis (and $100/hour is not unreasonable at all for a total cost number, or even a rate of pay). On 300k they are not building much.
My choice of words was poor on giving the stock a boost. Yes these developments are a positive step forward of investors. A plan of action at least. Unfortunately, it also reveals a lack of foresight and planning. Also, they could release any production numbers, and come up with an excuse related their reliance on that waste processing site for feedstock and/ or logistical difficulties.
if you can't see "something funny" in that... well you have not been watching the markets long.... ever considered good old stock price manipulation?
how long have we been waiting for this news? even if it is lame... it is the news the longs have been waiting for, right?
and it goes to .77?????
nowhere near a buck. will never even be a buck.
what they are "limited to" in terms of output is not relevant. Schedule B would likely have limitations on HOW they feed the processor, seeing as they are getting there feedstock from a Solid Waste facility that is either next door or farther away. DOes not matter.. there is a logistics problem.
I bet they do some production runs, but not full production... again, another showcase... another PR event.
i thought that the involvement of the DEC had to do with the management of the potentially environmentally-harmful INPUTS to the process, not the outputs.
PLeas state exactly what the point of your posts are/ is.
You are just posting "stuff". Be eloquent for once.
no there is not except that the term "Commercial Operations" can mean many things... if they are limited in the amount of input because of logistics, that might limit the throughput.
But, it will prove the process and prove ONCE AND FOR ALL the saleability of the final product.
good post...
well it is kind of important. It likely has provisions in it to protect the environment.
These provisions could seriously impede JBI's ability to be profitable. All depends on what it says.
Is it public knowledge?
Withholding that would qualify this as another tactical move designed to stir interest, nothing more. It could be seriously limiting.
Not quite sure why you responded in that manner, BUD.. oops.. buddy. Anyway, I read the link (the Consent Order) with interest. Thanks anyway.
Where is Schedule B? That determines how they must operate NOW.
So the Consent Order confirms what I said in my post, which is why I am not sure what your point was.
JBI did not understand what permits they needed and made assumptions along the way wh ich were erroneus and have cost them precious time.
The Environmental Assessment should have been first. That fits with my experience. Before you do anything which may impact the environment you need to do that. For nuke plants these things take years to do. What the document says is that the EA would have led to the requirement for the SW permit and the Air Permit. JBI made an assumption that all they needed would be an Air Permit and did not do the EA. THey then assumed that they could get away with a BUD and submitted partial incomplete information.
This para. is telling:
" NYCRR Part 617 (State Environmental Quality Review Act) requires that an agency must consider an entire project as a whole and not separately. Consequently, the Air State Facility permit application must be reviewed in conjunction with a Part 360 permit application. Since Respondent’s operations plan was based on a receipt of a BUD, Respondent must now prepare and submit a Part 360 permit application for the use of waste plastics at the Facility"
says it all.
Anyway, if you look at the requirements for a SW permit, it spells out B-U-I-L-D-I-N-G.....
Capital cost 200-500k. HVAC system.
Anyway, where is Schedule B Scion? Any more detail/ documents for me to digest?
not the attitude, at least not a safe one... it would have been good to be in prior to today's events, but days like this don't repeat themselves too often.
I will be surprised if it goes over a buck.
It will do that... WHEN PIGS CAN FLY.
In other words,
I WILL REMOVE MY PIG PHOTO FROM MY SIGNATURE IF THIS STOCK EVER GOES OVER A BUCK AGAIN.
Exceptions:
- a Reverse Split.
- I can personally arrange a Pink Floyd concert that is free to all JBII shareholders.
THAT IS A PROMISE. YOU CAN HOLD ME TO IT.
THAT IS... EVER, EVER IN A TRADING DAY... ANY TRADING DAY...
An interesting day. The obvious purpose (to me) of the waste plant is basically to act as inventory for the feedstock required by JBI and as a temporary solution to the lack of a SW permit. The flip (bad) side of it is that it is yet another expense not directly related to their core competency (making oil form plastic). But this is like the Javaco acquisition, the Pak-It acquisition, the blending plant, THE MACHINE SHOP etc. I don't really see the Long-Term benefit to JBI of a Waste Plant. When is this CEO going to sit down and construct a viable Long-Term strategic plan, do proper planning, and act on it????
I still believe that in order to obtain a SW permit JBI would have to do something major, like build a structure to store and control the SW. In lieu of that, let's buy a SW plant. OK. Again, he should have thought of this... and located the P2O plant on the SW site like the rest of the world.... how does he intend to operate? I could imagine trucking in the waste and unloading directly to the P2O machine. This would imply some sorting is necessary btw. That may be the terms of this Consent Order. likely the operation is spelled out.
So that is my impression of these press releases. Intended to get things going and to provide a much-needed boost to the stock price. Given that it was at 7.xx, not really much of a boost...
The lack of any statement regarding strategy is weird. This is not rocket science. Only to JB it appears.
I hope that the lack of ready inventory does not hinder him in making profits. Also, the added transportation costs... factor that in to the 10$. barrel....
good luck, the best outcome is a proof of the viability of the profitability of the plant and the process....
is that serious? Remember, I am canadian.. I would not be able to tell if you were joking...
what is the "NOBO list"? I have always wondered about that...
Just want to pitch in here... isn't the spot price the Maximum price that could be paid for something? Isn't it true that most purchasing is contract-driven for large volumes at much LESS than spot prices?
Somewhere along the lines JB said that he had a plan to fill that NY building with P2O equipment. 3 processors seems to fill the bill. I could provide a link for that...
"Unknown Unknowns" = Management Reserve. Also part of the Project Plan. Common Project Management stuff.
The PMI Project Management Body of Knowledge is probably the best resource, not Rumsfeld.
I guess you can look at it that way.
I don't think the JBI process is all that novel actually. All that JBI had to do is explain to them what they are doing (managing 20 Tons of waste plastic per day) and it should have been fairly obvious that a SW permit was necessary. And this business about jBI not providing the required information timely... well that says it all.
I have the feeling that JB is the kind of guy that always is looking for the loophole. That is fine, but you can't rely on that. You have to go in with the attitude that you are going to lay out your entire operation, understand your permitting requirements from the outset, and get all required permits..
how exactly is anyone winning any "battle"? I don't think that anything posted on here has anything to do with what the DEC Does. What the DEC Does is totally in the control of jBI. They have published timelines for permitting... the rules of the game. The permit in question is only one item on the road to success.
Kind of like an apple on the road.. or an orange peel.. JBI has to have it's headlight on.
Baloney is not my first choice in sandwich meats. I prefer hams, and beef is really good. I always couinterbalance that with peanut butter and jelly. Fruit goes along with it really well.
Anyway.
Showing investors how a machine works should not be enough to convince investors to buy a stock.
What is needed is a plan that shows an "on-stream" date where product will begin to flow. That, plus a a detailed analysis of the costs and revenues to ensure profitability. I have seen such statements by companies before. The dates tend to be missed by a month or two, but not like this.
Just the fact that the machine works should not be enough.
Getting a permit is not enough.
Committing to an on-stream date is a full commitment and encompasses all those things.
At the AGM, in one of the videos, JB said that he would do what ever the "investors fund". Or words to that effect. He has done exactly that. Spent investors' money.
oh and by the way my driving by the front gate and speaking with the security guard was totally impromptu. It was the best I could do that day. I doubt that JB would see me. He would not enjoy talking to me, because I would pester him about the plan. There is no plan. I am not technical like Terryels. I am a business-oriented person. Not fun for anybody,.
it is believable to me as well that some kind of permit could be issued prior to all the paperwork being completed. These government bodies try to be as flexible as they can be.
it is technical, not business-oriented. says nothing about profitability. Confirms some production capabilities.
I wouldn't say that. I think that he has come to a point where he can do extended runs, but I am not sure about continuous, reliable operations. I don't think he will be profitable.
The video does not address either of those things. It is just a nice video.
Every stock has HUGE POTENTIAL according to published reports and filings. If I believed (much less convinced) all of this information to be true, I would own every stock and soon be bankrupt.
Viability? Remains to be seen. Looking at the P2O industry as a whole and the fact that nearly every competitor is either under-financed or publicly supported, viability is not the first word that comes to mind. More like "experimental".
What would convince me?
Profits.
The reason I was long-winded is that if I tried to summarize I might be harsh or say something stupid. I was trying to be nice.
Actually the video link did not work on my computer.
I think you are talking about the recent "production" video that starts with the forklift grabbing the bale of plastic, dumping it in the hopper, and then the final product being drawn off. The plastic is mainly clear with the odd flake of colored plastic. There has been much discussion about whether or not it is clean or dirty plastic. I have seen it quite a few times.
Zardiw, watching that video and purchasing JBI stock would be like going to the food store to buy good healthy food like sandwich meat and fruit, then buying a bag of chocolate bars on the way out because the display is cool. It is a marketing video and has no bearing on whether I would buy this stock or not. It says nothing.
Sorry....
I think everybody has something to offer. I agree that the poster is experienced, but no one is totally correct all of the time. What does "real deal" mean?
More importantly, what has this poster stated about the potential profitability of the enterprise? All I have done is look at it as a project. I don't really know if the Envion "reactor" is superior to the jBI process or the significance of the catalyst.
At the end fo the day, unless the business is profitable, does it matter?
I know... but that is why Contingency would be built in. Schedule and Cost contingency...
realistically.. this has not been handled well.
Contingency would be in the order of 10%, maybe 20-30% tops.
Here we have a company with the job 1/3 done (1 processor built out of 3) and almost out of money... this goes beyond simple Risk planning.
fyi for those who do not know.
Contingency = "Known unknowns".
In other words, before a project the team has a meeting and decides "what could go wrong that we know of?". They come p with a list of Risks. They assign dollars to it. Or schedule days... as the project goes on they may use it... it is reflected in cost..
This has gone way beyond that.
interesting viewpoint.
"You previously stated that you were involved in the project controls - I suggest that you leave the hard questions to the engineering personnel, field construction and commissioning managers."
You have hit the nail on the head in terms of the hardest part of my job, and one of the biggest challenges that a technical/ engineering company faces.
Technical snobbery.
This is not directed towards you, but then that kind of attitude surfaces it is trouble. Requires good interpersonal skills, management support, and the right corporate culture. And if it is not dealt with there will be an overrun, almost guaranteed. And I have consistently been coerced to ignore problems and potential overruns by the people doing the work... it is part of the territory.
fyi a Project Controls person at JBII must know when dates will be missed and why. They are not just a bean-counter. It is normal for big bucks to be on the line, as companies like JBII borrow money to cover the cash flows that a Controls person would forecast. Also, the Control guy must understand the techical matter as much as is needed to be able to do that. Any technical person that would try to confuse the Controls person or snow them is a problem that must be dealt with.
A Controls person at JBI would likely report directly to JB, maintain a plan, a forecast, and would have to have JB's confidence to deal with that kind of attitude from the floor in order to do that job..
thanks for illuminating that.
good luck to 'em..
they have alot of assets to borrow against? like what? I don't think they have much at all. Their P&E is tied up in P2O.. for a financial institution this would be hugely risky. Basically, it would be a buyout.
Projects I have worked on:
- Permitting is just expected to happen without a hitch.
- plant is expected to get built without a hitch.
- ROI of 20-30% is expected within a 2-3 years and being LATE is not acceptable.
It is all a matter of perspective.
Wouldn't you rather have seen the money that went to Pak-It and Javaco (useless acquisitions) ensuring the above?
Would you not rather be looking at a guaranteed on-stream date with all ducks in a row?
agreed... I myself don't understand the implications of the catalyst.
I have always looked at this as a project and commented as such...
Frankly, he could have the greatest catalyst in the world, if he does not plan it out well and runs out of funds.. it is all for nought... or for buyout...
You lead... left foot first.