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1) I've said as much would need to happen, ie. more surgical indications need to be developed for a powerful launch.
2) I've said as much would need to happen, ie. more surgical instruments (effectors) will need to be developed for a powerful launch.
3) I heavily suspected delays because of this.
I guess I'm a "moran" on this bioard now.
This is good news, but it means we all better forget about the new boat, vacation, home, etc., for quite a while.
Very rational recap of your position and information. I fully support your opinion and don't think you were dissing the stock. Some of the cheerleaders here don't seem to be on the lookout for the possible negatives here, even with what seems like such a lined up path to success.
It is very hard to bring a device like this to market successfully. I expect setbacks and complications to arise.
I think the company lacks common sense, or common curtesy, to simply keep their website up-to-date, or to remind shareholders of upcoming releases, etc.. They may be smart, but I don't think they are saavy.
Per SEDAR I can believe it. All else is speculation, unless the tight-lipped bunch wants to tell us something. Would be nice.
Bugs me that people speak about this stuff as if they know what is going on. "series of porcine choles"
I have never seen one document that says there is a series, or how many, or a time frame, or even that they are porcine.
Let's hope that based on milestones, the one official mention of a successful animal (was it live?) chole, a report of a video by Duke (of what he thought to look like a live animal), that this is what they are up to, right now. I like to think so.
I'm not nit-picking, but all of us start speaking and repeating these buzz phrases. The simple truth is that given the zero info being disemminated, no one here knows if they have done one or a hundred, or other procedures. Or, if they have delayed. Or what a design freeze announcement really looks like. I suspect they are not going to use the term "design-freeze".
How do you think the 'design freeze' will be announced. I don't believe there is an official disclosure requirement for that, probably not even wise to do so. I suspect that we will simply hear that the device has been submitted to, or is under testing at CE.
Any opinions from the board?
Couldn't find any mention of a date on the Titan Website. Usually they keep it up-to-date!
Exactly. No sign of speculation. That's what you expect in a "startup", god knows at this stage of the game. No analysts. No recommendations to buy, hold, or sell. A fall from 2.50 to 2.00 when all the ducks are lined up.
I agree. My daughter's boyfriend is a saavy, young, recently graduated engineer from Georgia Tech. He has asked me about stocks I might recommend to him and his friends who like to trade on tech firms. (They all landed good $$ engineering jobs; GT is the MIT of the South).
Anyway, I told him about Titan about 3-4 months ago. Not impressed. Why? Stock won't move in the face of what looks to be impeccable circumstances. He is not an experienced trader, of course, but he can't shake the feeling of this being a penny stock at heart - just thinks it is strange.
I can't recommend Titan to anyone at this time. Frankly, I'm not feeling thay can be trusted. IMHO
Lack of even a dinky non-news update on the web page from time to time is starting to piss me off.
My source agrees. Said not sure company is still in business though. Possibly have moved into alternative business plan that will require improved customer relations.
See link:
http://www.titanmedicalcenter.com/
Looks like chicken; guess that's where Titan got their idea for their video. Could be turkey though.
Titan better release some news quick.
And don't forget the chicken in a bottle!
That's sure to be considered a game-changer to interested parties.
... and been uplisted recently to a better exchange, and rang in the trading day for a nice happy smiling photo op. And ... (You can fill in the blanks)
Apparently they have no speculative investors either. Not that Titan has any reason too given thay are an on-track, close-to-approval, contender to a huge market monopoly, and have a stellar medical advisors board, a top development company, this very informative iHub board, and a top notch NYC marketing firn, and plenty of money, patents, and an innovative robotic platform, and strong university ties, and a fairly decent website, and an upcoming financial release, and ...
My take on why the report release date was postponed from Nov. 6 to now the 20th(?) is that unanticipated major changes in plans are requiring a rewrite. Not necessarily bad changes, but changes nonetheless. Opening bell get-together, acquisition of Ximedica, COO of Transenterix leaves, and all those shit-eating grins makes me really want to know what the hell is going on.
OH, AND DON'T FORGET, a stock price so stable you'd think this was a 100 year old insurance company. It's strange. No speculative buying, no speculative selling, no independent analysis. No IR/PR info. No new video. Really strange.
I completely agree with you that Titan needs to issue at least ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS of these recent goings on in Ximedica, Transenterix, etc..
This is not just 'hey wait around for SPORT to get to the market' stuff. I'm not expecting state secrets but many investors have a great stake and consider these goings on important, hence the chatter on this board.
I really think Titan's flow of information to its stockholders is disrespectful in some ways. Underwhelmed, as always.
Well for some reason, LV Life Sciences saw fit to pick up Ximedica.
My concern is that unless something is up expressly involving Titan and LV, simple meddling by the new boys could mess up Ximedica's timeline, staff, workflow, etc.. What if LV wants to evaluate their contracts, "improve" efficiency, get rid of people they think are not needed, etc..
Like I've said, I've seen this happen to good small companies who get acquired by one of these big holding firms. LV Sciences, I hope, is not going to micromanage Ximedica along with their 140 other holdings. In other words, whoever runs LV probably cares only about what profits Ximedica can yield.
On the other hand, LV may in some way prevent patent issues from arising between Titan and Transenterix.
I just found the email from Steven Randall for the Nov. 6 date. It was sent to me on Oct 16 when I requested that Titan keep its shareholders more up-to-date.
So Nov. 6 was "official" at that time, at least as Steve understood it.
I repeat for your information:
SV Life Sciences portfolio includes TransEnterix.
Listed on their website.
I think he does too.
I count over 140 companies in the SV Life Science "portfolio".
I hope they don't interfere with Ximedica's operation in any way, except to give them funding.
TransEnterix is one of their companies.
Sometimes these conglomerates kill the companies they acquire, either with too much love or too little.
This is by no means a "win" for Titan Ximedica (and Titan Medical). We simply won't know for a while.
If Ximedica has to waste time and resources sucking on the SV tit and kissing ass, or changing personnel, this could result in delays for their Titan work.
I've seen it before.
Agreed.
Only thing I can hope is that the report that should have come out today was delayed by the accounting firm for some reason; just not ready to go to print yet.
Pretty lame to open the market and not give interested observers some up-to-the-moment news. I'm starting to get the distinct impression that Titan has a lot of smart docs on the SAB, but not so hot business executives.
As always with them, I'm kind of underwhelmed, as a stockholder.
I wrote to Titan that time when I think it was Honey was inploring us to email for info. I got basically the same email from the same guy. I can't find it or recall the date but I'm pretty sure it was the same, Nov. 6th.
I mentioned it in a post to the board back then.
Agreed. Just seems like after such a long time in the dark, there has to be something new to mention.
If the information is routine, then while I'm still long and strong, I'd say this company doesn't give a crap about any ordinary investors. People will start selling off a bit out of suspicion alone that things are not so rosy internally.
Agree with you, as I've also opined.
Nice it there was a third channel to extend a 'cartridge' of clips down to the surgical field, then use the arms to "break one off', load the clip-effector, and apply to the tissue.
Lots of places for great innovation with the SPORT platform, but I still think they are pushing it with one 25mm trocar and two arms. We'll see, but they can go for a grand slam here, or just hit a single. That's why I'd like to hear about some collaboration with a major surgical products company.
I know this is all speculation, and I trust they know what they are doing, but sometimes it doesn't take much of an oversight to flub a design. Remember, NASA crashed a Mar lander because of a units conversion oversight.
So would the clips be introduced one at a time through one of the trocar channels (only two that we know of for the arms)? Seems that to avoid having to retract an arm and sent clip(s) down, another channel must be there big enough for them. Oh, and don't forget suction. Looking forward to seeing this video because the last videos we have seen really don't show any important detail except articulation potential.
Right - pointed out the wrist vs. snake difference the other day. That's why I don't think the ISRG single port is being delayed by potential patent conflict with Titan.
Their delay is strategic because they want to see how Titan's single port develops and is accepted. If Xi flops right now, just based on cost/buying climate, even if it is a fine product, that is really bad for them. They can afford to wait. They will modify their sales strategy, and Xi itself, to be more competitive with whatever is going on with SPORT.
Who "begged" him to go to Dallas? Supposedly you needed an FDA-approved device to get in - maybe I'm mistaken about that.
The buying organization begged? If so, why would they care about a $2.00 startup without approval yet? According to someone on this board, an ISRG rep recently said, 'there's 30 companies out there doing the same thing.' So why is Titan invited to the show?
Answer those questions and you'll get a read on who knows what out in the potential marketplace.
Agreed, and right now I care even less about the pps support.
I want surgeons and hospital buyers, and other potential add-on developers to have this new company and product on their radar.
This means potential buyers may wait for SPORT. ISRG may be pushed into saying things to counter that will not help their image. Maybe they will push Xi too soon. I want a big name vet school with an interest in robotics to want to try a SPORT in research.I want big companies to start approaching Titan about partnerships.I want inventors to start thinking about enhancements to the platform. I want good ISRG people to start wondering if they would like to work for a different 'upstart' company. These things happen organically if there is some buzz.
The current pps of Titan is an indicator of just how invisible they are. It may be their strategy, but I think there is a more strategic way to prime the market, and self-promote, and cross-pollinate the technology besides virtually complete silence.
Which is why Titan needs to raise its level of recognition out there. They need to develop some anticipation in the surgical world, without giving away the state secrets. If few know about Titan and SPORT, and don't have any sense of anticipation, they'll just buy the ISRG message that Titan is a nothing company with a nothing product.
Titan needs to get on the map, not for share price, but to build interest and anticipation.
Some of you know surgeons who are informed and interested. The ones I know don't give a rat's ass, but they know what a daVinci is!
Please Titan, generate some pre-market buzz. It's called marketing! What the heck is Bertner doing?
My question exactly.
I haven't seen any evidence of an assistant port, and if so, it must share space with the two effector arms in the single 25mm barrel, and suction.
Question for the surgeons on the board.
How do you get a "larger" suture needle (and suture) into the operative field if it won't fit down a SPORT effector channel? Are you simply contstrained to using small-enough sizes?
Surgical clips? Staplers? Tissue retrieval bags? If it can't fit down the channel, how is it still possible to avoid making other incisions for access?
I concur given my experience on my institution's medical device committee.
Also, per DukeSilver:
"This show was an invite only show where products are brought here to generate hype in the MedAssets community to take to their hospitals on their contracts. John said he was begged to come to this. This is their first coming out show."
Who begged Hargrove to come out, and why? What do they know about Titan that we might not? In other words, how did Titan get on their radar?
A really quick look at current laparoscopic nephrecomies on the web show a minimum of 3 incision sites, often up to five. One alone for the optics gets bundled into SPORT, of course.
Do you think it is feasible to do a neprectomy via a single site?
Man, you are Gold to me, not Silver.
Thank you very much for going there and trying to dig up some info.
I suspect they got the message that investors are hoping, and expecting, a lot. Let's hope SPORT and Titan prove to be the right technology at the right time.
Titan effectors are completely articulated 'snakes'.
daVinci Xi effectors are 'wristed' articulation.
I don't think for these reasons patent conflict exists. Could be something else though.
I think more likely Xi was put on hold because adoption would be sluggish in this climate, at best. ISRG can afford to delay. ISRG will 'improve' and reintroduce Xi when it believes it can create a definite marketing stategy to counter/contrast with SPORT. Right now, assuming SPORT'S approval, ISRG doesn't know what SPORT will look like, how it will sell, etc., etc..
From April 2, 2014:
Canaccord Genuity analyst Jason Mills reiterated a Hold rating and $423 price target on Intuitive Surgical (NASDAQ: ISRG) saying Xi in "no panacea."
Mills said, "... we are hard pressed to get constructive on ISRG until we have greater clarity on adoption trends for the new system, as well as visibility for a next-generation single-site system."
Mr. Mills added "While the new system should help the company re-engage potential customers who do not yet have da Vinci, and could also drive an upgrade cycle at some existing customers, we do not believe that the Xi system represents a panacea for below average procedure growth trends."
Wondering whether it is possible ISRG is delaying introduction of their single-port daVinci add-on until SPORT gets some exposure over the next year as, we hope, it continues to meet milestones towards a saleable product.
ISRG may be choosing to introduce theirs (already ready-to-go) as a strong option for current daVinci users, rather than have them even consider SPORT.
In the meantime, ISRG gets to continue to develop theirs, weigh-in Titan's experience with approval and regulatory issues, and get to assess demand, based on SPORT's marketing feedback. They also get time to try and match/counter any SPORT innovations, as much as that is possible.
Right now, given slow sales for daVinci, and lukewarm press for robotic surgery in general, ISGR probably doesn't want to have a "flop" for its eventual move into single port procedures.
Note also, when they come online with their single port, they will promote that it has 3 effectors over SPORT's two. I am positive about this. They will promote usage for a wider number of procedures than SPORT because of it. I task Titan to explain their rationale for only two effectors, when Xi has three. I know some on this board have explained that two are enough, but I'd like to understand Titan's point-of-view, and backed by their SAB.
Personally, I don't think ISRG's delay is about IP. The last thing Titan wants now, I would imagine, is to get into IP wars long before they even have a product to sell.
All in all, probably a great post to have a Titan exec in for networking.
On the oher hand:
He will have to seriously watch out for real and perceived conflicts-of-interest. I take it for granted that this consulting group must be non-biased.
ISRG could eventually really spin this into a negative.
Increase operating time using current robotics is a real cost issue, though countered with shortened recovery-in-hospital time.
One thing I haven't seen discussed in popular articles is the increased anesthesia time for any longer-than-traditional robotic procedures. Longer time under anesthesia is never a positive, for cost, or post-op recovery, and most importantly safety.
Surgical robotics, as remarkable and improving as the technologies are, will continue to face uphill battles.
Something that has been really bothering me is why the ISRG single port system design saw fit to incorporate 3 effectors (and camera), while SPORT has only two. Surgeons, correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me someone besides the principle surgeon is needed in most instances to assist with retraction. I'd appreciate feedback on how important this design difference will be.
Maybe arrogant, but if you look at their company, technology, resources, and entrenchement (ie. 14 research centers per the article)ISRG is no joke. Look at the videos out there. It is by all current definitions a capable system.
SPORT looks primitive by comparison, at the moment.
Great find!
Titan is actually listed under the groups that visited IHU Stasbourg, which is called the Institute for image-guided surgery (if my Fench is correct).
L’Institut de Chirurgie Guidée par l’Image de Strasbourg développe une chirurgie innovante pour une prise en charge personnalisée des patients, qui combine les technologies mini-invasives les plus performantes aux dernières avancées de l’imagerie médicale.
The top half of the list is for visitors to IRCAD. From the webpage heading:
"IRCAD pools digestive cancer research laboratories, a research department in computer sciences/robotics, and a training centre in minimally invasive surgery."
I don't know what difference this would make in any conjecture about the purpose of the visits. I do know that the most recent patent-application posting on this board concerns image-guided (light ray guided - their "wand") technologies, that being machine imaging for spatial location, not human visual imaging per se.
Everything seems to be heading in the right direction for Titan. Almost surrealistic that there is no coverage from the speculative-stock world that could drive price up even a little bit. I've got a lot of money tied up in Titan (for me that is)and this stock price freaks me out.
I think that a true stereoscopic image requires a double camera in a fixed mount.
Still true, to my knowlege, that in optics more glass is more light is better imaging, color etc. That's why demanding photographers still use large glass lenses on digital cameras. When you get down to the size of endoscope cameras, even solid state tip mounted, I think you lose depth of field, get fisheys distortion, and other problems. I'd hope a strength of SPORT will be superior optics.
I heard there is a technology for force sensing feedback that uses vibration emitting/vibration sensing surface mounted chips to gage tissue contact pressure. That is a cool idea to do haptics with, rather than true pressure sensors.
I still think that even if SPORT is sucessful, maybe especially because of success, that multi-port SPORT will have to come down the pike.