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As I use to say all the time in the grade 9 typing class.. what page are we on? <g> Memories.. and the best part I was in grade 11 at the time...
Reviewing my nickel portfolio, shortage or not, CNI is the biggest mover by far - the rest including Inco were either moderately higher or lower but nothing big.
Anyways, as the Reuters story says - basically panic buying CNI based on their find.
I suppose I am saying "why not all/most nickel guys... ".. even JNI was down (yes they are a junior explorer.. but.. the tide rises all boats theory..)
I always find stuff like this funny.. like when WMT has millions trading all day and end up a penny.
Anyahoo.
Thanks CD..
SoB
Other than CNI (bought some more at 12.50 meself), everything is flat -- 1-10c in either direction..
At least CNI broke out of the "$12.00" spell... in a big way.. anybody know why?
Hey Kastelco - good luck on "Baytex". I see AE.UN is coming down to $11 again.
SoB
Silver and Gold.. Silver and Gold...
On INO.COM I cannot seem to see the price of SILVER.
Kitco has it. I seem to hear that INO has a better Gold Price than Kitco/better graphing..
INO right now has gold at +1.50
Kitco has gold at +2.70.
Enquiring Minds..
Sexy-O-Boy
Re: Re: quote downloader and Yahoo
I will have to revisit that (limits).
I thought you were a down and dirty (very very dirty) programmer.
FWIW - I basically (sometimes the easiest) create a simple HTML with the links I need - I generate that with a program (Could be VB or 4GL); then I use that to feed into a reader - I have found TWO - HTTRACK and WGET. Pros/Cons with each - both FREEWARE (e.g w/source etc).
There are "commerical" versions of the same thing - "offline explorer; teleport; web copier etc etc etc". BUT the "post" style of passwords with Yahoo prevents almost ALL from working. I have found that WGET works perfectly (you actually pass the "cookie" file); although for what insane reason on the planet there is a 10s pause to start a download - related to my linksys router [proven]; HTTRACK and none of the other products have a pause whatsoever, but I had some issues with Yahoo using HTTRACK.
Anyahoo to make a boring story more boring, I rip pages; and then process the files.
I also use Jerry Medved's QuoteTracker for downloading. If you turn his "capture" on, you actually can see how the program does exactly the same thing - ripping and parsing.
Anyahoo, I have some specific needs that I am researching and developing.. thanks for your info.
Sexton..
200DMA.. ADX.. etc etc
So I can learn to be a better chart reader - and employ the right tools to get the answers I need, do you have any sites/books you might recommend?
I have just scratched the surface reviewing StockCharts - how would you rate their "Chart School"? Anywhere else that is better?
Enquiring minds...
Sexton..
Can the FONT and/or COLOR be changed?
I noticed someone did this and it showed on the SUMMARY but when you open it just shows the details without the font changing.
<font size=5><font color=red>TEST
See.. http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=1374626 (previous 50)
Re: limit to 200 quotes
Bonjour Louis.
You seem to suggest that this is "strange". That is not new. I was testing downloading batches of Yahoo! quotes a year or two ago and ran into that. As for downloading, yes you are limited to "200" or something and you have to write multiple scripts to get the data going back further - little math and perhaps some acceptance of "bad pages" (assuming the data doesn't go that far back).
I think the only issue is, when they split/consolidate stocks, you have to either "pass" your own data with the conversion, (ouch for rounding) or download all Yahoo! history for the stock again.
So what tools are you using to grab this stuff (the techie side)... me wants to know.
..Sexy oooooooooh Baby ... uh huh.. yeah.. that's right..
Hey Penny Pincher....
I have been burned enough with limit orders...
And I have found by buying larger quantities, I have ignored the commission and spread my purchases over days instead of loading up in one shot. (Average in)
I mentioned on SI, that with TD Waterhouse, after the 5th order in the "account" (A/B+E/F+G/H+S/V) on a single day; the order has to be reviewed by a TD Rep. (READ=SLOWS THE ORDER DOWN)
Instead of 1 order for 2000, I might place 3 orders for 500 at X, 500 at Y and 1000 at Z. This is the only way to navigate without a "minimum" quantity feature. I review during the day, if perhaps 1/2 the orders are filled, I might then re-jiggle the others. And if not filled - there is another day.
Commissions have to be factored in, but as with tax implications, should be put aside when money is to be made or lost.
May not be a great way to go at it, but I feel a little better that I didn't buy near the high than the low - as what I did with CDE last week - if I would have bought half at 2.65 and half at 2.50, I would have felt better. Not great, but "betta"
("Betta" aka what the new Coca-Cola president said during the release of the new recipe of Coke - comparing it to the old version, now known as Classic)
SoB -- Sliding on-me Back...
I paid full ($199 lifetime) recently on SI as well.
But I am doing most of my posting/reading lately on that board with the soothing music of... Mostly Classical...
SoB
Re: Worried about RRI..
What me worried?
I would not hold a bank now, true, but I was trading this one. Any real weakness and I will lighten up again--- for that matter any strength into the 6s I will do that.
Couple of positions about 1.5K - and profit of $2K US. Swinging between 4s and 6s really.
I was worried more about the whole sector; deregulation; issues in CA etc.
So far. OK.
... NRI huh? Hmm.. haven't lost money in that one in years.. was looking at $4.43.. but..
SoB
EDIT: For those that dumped CDE.. that was me who bought it.. (Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh)
Options.. worthless
Yes. They are addictive once you get in - the "potential gains" are huge if they pay off for such a little buy in.
Take any high priced stock - say Wal-Mart - you have all the numbers on Yahoo!. See $57.50. If you think it goes to $60 - it will cost you $5750 for 1 lot - and then you sell at $6000 for a $250 profit. You can make the about the same with an option (in some cases MORE) for a mere $125-150 option. Again all on paper.. but LEVERAGE is the key and TIMING against you. Tempting alright. Again perhaps with INDEXES it might be fruitful..
My game in Vegas is (Mini) Baccarat [Game of Kings and James Bond] - unlike every other game where the commission is embedded, this game has three bets - Player; Tie; Bank. Only if BANK wins do you pay a commission -- and ONLY AFTER THE DECK IS OVER. They ask you to pay say "$5.50 sir". It has the LOWEST commission of any game (Blackjack/Craps/Roulette are next best); and you do nothing but BET. The dealer controls ALL the cards - NO THINKING involved. I love it - doesn't mean I win always of course - but I love it [fyi: Bank has a slight edge - so betting on player won't necessarily pay off in the long run].
FWIW Most casinos DO NOT have mini baccarat because of the low commission. (That is my heads up this game is a gold mine!!)
Sexton
Re: BUY BUY BUY!!!
I think you have been around computers too much Kastelco...
Steady Port rise alone made me ansi. Isn't it "antsy".
At any rate, nice holdings.. don't have much core myself - not confident in any ONE thing really..
Some of my biggest gainers include DROOY, RRI, BGO, CBR, MAE. Dabbling in CZZ, CNI, BHK, NGX, AGI. My BB include WMT and PFE with gains.
(PFE is a double down from an original $40 then more at $29.. bot in originally as a "trade" when it was surfing "40-45" - but someone stole my waves dude! At any rate, my Reliant fills the surfing gap right now so I like radically happy..)
Sexton...
Honda CRV v. SUV
Not sure if yourself or anyone watches the Daily Show with John Stewart. They had an interview with an environmental body representative who was against people driving all the time and buying these large gas-guzzler cars/SUVs. The reporter, Steven Cobert, asked "If I may ask, what car do you drive?" He replied "I drive a Ford Explorer."
..SoB
Exit strategy?
Last nights Financial Sense Online editorial by Hartman touched on something I need more help in.
Exit Strategy?
I don’t have quite enough time today to comment on precious metals and commodities except to say that the charts of gold, silver and natural gas are solid. Natural gas should break out from its current consolidation to the upside as we move into the cold season. Silver still remains my favorite investment.
I would like to write much more on trading strategies, but for now I think it is very important to at least touch on exit strategies. If you do not have an exit strategy for your current holdings, you are making a very common mistake. Investors tend to work much harder at their due diligence in researching a company to buy, but fail to make plans or targets for the sale. I have a rule for my own investing that says I can not buy a security or commodity without having an exit strategy. In other words, when you buy a stock, bond or commodity, what is your expectation of future performance in terms of time and price.
With that being said, where do you stand with an exit strategy for your current long positions? On the buy side, many investors including myself use multiple buys to accumulate shares, averaging the overall entry prices for a given position. I usually break my buys into three chunks and LIKEWISE, develop an exit strategy of averaging the sell price since it is nearly impossible to sell right at the ultimate top. For the investors that have recouped much of their prior losses, and for those that have made some gains in the current rally, it is probably time to start averaging out of the stock market. As I said earlier, you can always go back when the risk-reward relationship improves.
The same can be said for those of you out there that have participated in the run-up in gold and silver stocks. You don’t want to be left behind if the big move hits, but it’s not a bad idea to gradually move back to cash as the gold and silver stocks rise. I have been in the PM’s rally since the beginning, so I’m gradually generating some cash with profits. With a blow-off in PM stocks I will take another 10 to 20 percent off the table, then with confirmation of a pull-back, I will sell the remainder of my PM trading positions while holding my core positions.
As I said earlier, I would like to cover trading topics in much greater detail, but for now please consider how very valuable an exit strategy can be. It will certainly change along the way, but your chances are better if you have a plan going in.
.. Sept 10 - Mike Hartman
Here is the URL
http://www.financialsense.com/Market/daily/wednesday.htm
Re: For you energy bulls out there; today's "WrapUp" by Jim Puplava just rocks.
Some things I thought of when reading this article:
1) I cannot remember if it was this past spring or last year, with the price of gasoline so high, and SUVs requiring premium to boot, I did see stories on TV how people just could not afford to run them any longer, and sold them.
The point I am making is - Jim stated that many have forgotten the 1973 long gas lines, and people continue to buy gas guzzlers. I saw your "Toyota is a big 3" post, but not sure about how SUV sales have been of late - versus say 2000-2001. I can look into that, but I know it is really hurting people with the price of gas these days.
But I do agree that the SUVs are no different than the giant boats "Caddies" "Ford LTD" - 8cyl of waste. Most do not need an SUV; they aren't as big as one would believe; and I learn everyday, that most should not be licensed to drive them.
2) On the brighter side, I have an article from the Aug 11 BW that discusses how both FEDEX and UPS are getting vehicles that use alternates than just "gas" esp Hybrid. Not because of any incentive necessarily, but to save money on fuel costs.
Page 1: http://members.rogers.com/soblake/mc/green1.jpg
Page 2: http://members.rogers.com/soblake/mc/green2.jpg
Let me know if there are scan quality issues...
UPS has "70,000" of those brown trucks; USPS - "142,000"; FEDEX - "100,000". In the end, with so many being purchased, in theory the cost overall for the commercial trucks will drop and I would expect better pricing on cars would follow.
Jim's editoral a good read esp the timeline from exploration to production. But he seemed to make things look so bad because we have "nothing out there". Sure Hybrid requires gas - but it is a step in the right direction.
Michael, I am interested in this entire Hydrogen scheme. It resembles the record industry - the CASH COW - everyone knows that they have been peddling overpriced crap for years, and they finally understand that people aren't going to buy it anymore - they will steal it instead.
Japan right now is testing hydrogen (at 2:51AM the proper names escape me; but Ballard of course makes units that use hydrogen) buses. Saw Nightly Business Report do a story on that. The infrastructure alone to get "hydrogen" refueling stations is a daunting task to say the least.
Remember the Hindenburg
Intersting read: http://www.clean-air.org/hindenberg.htm
(I am not saying the information is factual or not)
The concern it seems in Japan, and I would suggest here will be "we don't want a hydrogen station in our backyard".
How many people are gung ho knowing there is a nuclear plant in their neighborhood let alone state? NOT MANY. And here we have something that potentially is more dangerous as there will be many in and around our homes.
Further, what are Exxon, Royal Dutch and the others doing about hydrogen? Are they thinking TODAY only or already planning on the NAPSTER scenario? The only saving grace, I suppose is that the existing Esso stations would be converted to Hydrogen - but I have no idea on the footprint for that - and again the safety issues.
Interesting... food for thought..
Sexton.. Remembering 9/11
OT: (moved this to the end)
Unforunately the link you put up is gone - unless you go back within the site I suppose; I complained that they didn't have a post you made prior - they apparently don't archive all posts - just those that people suggest are good. Reminds me of the place I work - the woman kept deleting all the files for import from the client. We are talking anywhere from 20-250K. Like I am having problems with my 4+ 120GB drives and huge files, and she is cleaning up the drive as if we really need the space. Moving toward at least 2 years on file; I just emailed the site (www.financialsense.com) with some suggestions on improvement for keeping links.
A post in a foreign country
Here are some of my September/October thoughts, based on history in my brain.
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk/msg.gsp?msgid=19293636
Options-Tricky beasts they are. (Honestly, I think you have a better chance making money on penny stocks (under 10cents)).. I think brokers make the most money..
As for my PUT today, last price of my QQQ OCT $34 PUT was $1.65 ($10 profit so far if I sold). Anyways, we will see...
The post above mentioned an extra tid-bit I learned with options - you want to buy options on stocks that are VERY volatile. A great stock example for this would be "China Fund" (CHN) lately. All over the map. Real nail biter I tell you. A friend of mine over a "coiffee" told me about CHN it.. got in at $24 - saw it hit over $28 then fell right back below $24 - to lower mid 23's then back up again to just over $28 (I sold my itty bitty 200 shares at $28) and down again - up today to $26.
I am not saying go out and start playing (PAPER TRADE!); but if you are, get something that does move since TIME is against you. One year I had IMO (imperial) - it fell just below my call and literally sat there - going up or down 5-10cents every day - my call was like $0.05 (that is the most common price when way out of the money - virtually worthless) and the stock never recovered in time.. of course after expiry it.. it.. but thats another story
But what about TF....
What was your reasoning for looking at JPM puts? I should be in bed - aka the volumes have been cleared at Yahoo! - but the "open interest" is short of 100K for all. Not much action really. Not necessarily a bad bet (since I am no expert), but just wondering why you chose them.
Two more points:
- When you are out of the money - they expire worthless and they are removed from your account. So my total cost (mentioned previous post) is IT. No "selling" cost required.
- When you are in the money - a number of things can happen. I have always sold before expiry so I cannot tell you of any experiences here.
The book on Options I did get is from Grab & Maul - the author has traded options for "several years" (why did I buy this book?????). Anyahoo, there is a lot to learn - and I could be posting excerpts - but I think it would be best to get a book at the library to start with.
His book: (again it was "ok" for beginner stuff; but I am sure there are much better ones with lots of TIPS)
http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?N=35&R=64894&act=A03&Item=978014025620&Sectio....
- He suggested, for example, instead of selling the option near expiry, convert it to the actual stock and then sell the stock - there appears to be a discount in the option when close to expiry that you lose money on the value; but you pay in converting to a stock and then selling the stock - so is it worth the extra work?
- Alternatively, as a strategy.. "I own QQQ, but it has stalled and may not move much higher - but I am not sure; I made money already.. what do I do Delilah?"
She comforts and in the background oddly she throws on a diddy by Aerosmith - Love In An Elevator...going down...
"You could SELL your QQQs and they buy calls - if the stock continues up you make money; if it goes down, you lose just the price of the option - a little extra play.."
Again I am no expert in options. Played them; had some fun but mostly lost money. I have always wanted to venture back - and I think if I stick with indexes, I might be better off.
Sexton
Kastelco Re: Yahoo Fell down big..
Yes/No.
In the past for a detail you enter the single quote <RETURN> followed by hitting the "BGO.TO". So instead they threw you straight into the detail. I think that is better in this respect - e.g. I instantly see a chart. Before for the same effect, I would have to change the type from BASIC to DETAILED (or a view of my choice).
They said "you know what, if you enter a single quote, why not default it to detailed?" -- but they didn't think further and say "should we show ALL details"?? - NO!
However, what if I do "RBAK" and want to see REAL-TIME? I click on the left "REAL-TIME".
Sort of how they fixed Quicken's task bar - better and worse at the same time.
They should have taken all of your made-up views and thru them under a column called "Custom" - and I would see "Sexton View" "Yield" etc etc.
Regardless of the effort/results, I will make the comment to them.
Put it this way - you can, as you found get your view by more than one quote - but then again we don't know if "DETAILED" was the first to change and all the others will change too - and they may get rid of this "CUSTOM VIEW" changes. (Now that would really SUCK then, I agree).
But you sure ah purrrdy Mrs. Yahoooooo!
SoB
Welcome Welcome
Thanks Kastelco. I will review your Yahoo! dilema - they do (did) say to comment on the changes.. LOL.. as if that would help..
IN my first virgin index option.. 2 Lots of OCT $34 QQQ PUTS @ $1.30 .. $290US.
<sigh.. not sure it helps the nerves.. but I have found when I say something "BUY GE.. or BUY AC" it usually does what I told others and I never listened to myself...>
The account also has 800 shares of RRI - so any downturn, I hope this may offset that a bit.
Insurance as it is... I have a plump enough account ... I HOPE THIS ONE DOES NOT PAY OFF!
Michael: Don't have the time now, but I have some comments on the recent article from Jim Pupulava <sp?> on the oil editorial. Will post them tonight. Part of it was an article in Business Week I found helped "the cause".
Cheers all
SoB
Re: Short the QQQ and SPY... Sept 11 is near.
amarksp
Nice Shorts..
I am feeling a little uneasy myself - with Sept 11, and being
September. Today they mentioned in the news that they have banned "suspect" pilots from flying in US air space. But what really bothered me - some changes for Europeans and their passports was suppose to take effect on Oct 1, but because they are "not ready" it has been postponed about a year. (!!)
Today I saw HD and WMT go down $1.53-1.60. (WOW!) and the DJI was only off 80. (I know Yahoo updated their quotes now, but I just noticed when you go ^DJI as a quote they give you the "components" on the left you can click and see the entire DJI of which I had created myself as a portfolio. Nice improvement.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/cp?s=^DJI
Would have liked to have seen a way to SORT a portfolio by volume or gains etc. Next life..
tf
I had been looking at Yahoo puts when they were about $32 around the time they released earnings. Watching I would have lost again.
Check this..
Diamond Trust (DIA) has very little action...
Puts for QQQ (by the time you read it will be into Sep 10 so I doubt you will see what I do now) http://finance.yahoo.com/q/op?s=QQQ&m=2003-10
Basically most people on Sep 9 bought $34 PUTS (prem is $1.20).. but $30PUTS has the most open (prem is $0.25). $34 would be in the money if the market falls again tomorrow.
(Funny since as I write this, moments later they reset the volumes. I see already 216 lots at $33 PUT.)
Was thinking about this all day... 2 Lots of $34 PUTS. will sleep on it and see tomorrow..
Hey Michael.. Re: Mostly Classical...
Hear Here.. Cheers!
Sexton
Re: Zweig's WOW
I bought that book in the early 90's and read it. But too green to "get the bit". Thanks - I will re-read that one. I do remember it was a very good read.
Thanks for the site too.
Sexton
MoneyLetter.. Pape? NAHHH!! I am referring to http://www.moneyletter.com/. I mentioned it because the press release back in 2001 mentioned MPL took them and a few other newsletters out.
As for Northern Miner. At the time I was thinking of converting to the online version - whereas some charge less (passing on the paper and postage savings), they charge more - I suppose for the timeliness.
You are bang on 100% though. I have no problem spending money on something if I get a good ROI - but not just to get it. I thoroughly enjoy reading (when I can spare the time) Business Week (they provide their online version for free). Just a good overall read. I also enjoy reading Barrons+WSJ from time to time - time of which I never have much of. (I may have a link for a 30day free trial of their online offerings if anyone is interested). I know some don't think much of Barrons/WSJ - but I really enjoy the interviews with those that talk about their stock picks [I emailed BW to have such a "Question" "Answer" format, but they haven't moved on my idea].
I haven't read the Globe & Mail in months. Just fluff. We still get it - my wife reads it - I would love to get her converted to fulltime net reading-- perhaps a lite graphics tablet would do.
I will say, with the net there is this "instant gratification" - it is so easy to "sign up sign up sign up" to every site out there for the low cost of $4.95US-$19.95US/mth. HA! 5-10 sites later.
As for shorts, I was looking to see if StockWatch.com would provide that info amoungst other info.
Thanks for info.
Sexton
Something went wrong on the way to the opera..
You said the magic words "WileCat Willy" -- that triggered in my brain that I was talking about the wrong periodical.
The one you are referring to, Investors Digest, is a newspaper. I have read that sparingly - but you seem to suggest it is worth the read (esp for the resources I gather). So I will re-look at that.
The one I was "writing" about was not Investors Digest but "The Investment Reporter" - That is the one that HFD has rated very high for many years. Reviewing HFD side (Profiles), The Investment Reporter is listed. (whew.. my memory serves me correctly..) That is the one that I found was an excellent newsletter for those that want good quality stocks - investments versus speculation. (Again not my style at that time)
I was trying to find more about MPL Communications - they have a few newsletters in their fold - MoneyLetter is another - yet ..
(A) The stock is listed as MPZ..
(B) I cannot find their website (only sites talking about MPL; or MPL the music company)..
(C) The MoneyLetter makes no mention of MPL owning them (a news release in 2001 stated the sale; but perhaps they bought out of their deal?)
So Michael, perhaps you have a website for Investor's Digest?
Newsletters Site
Probably not complete with all, but found a few... good to know
(ALL: Most newsletters provide you samples of old and/or trial/free offers...)
http://www.financialnewsletters.com
I also had subscribed to Rukeyser's Wall Street - but that was during a time when I wasn't investing so much in the US. More of a lark really - because PBS offered it cheaper. But again it is geared to "investors" esp those that can afford a few thousand shares of the likes of 3M....
I also was subscribing (thanks Dad) to the Northern Miner. But the times were a changin and I decided to dump it - he read that when the internet was just a military communication network.. LOL! I found it to be good as a resource, but for speculation, just too "late" when you get updated info on Yahoo! and Canada Newswire-in fact, for some of the speculative stocks I had, even NM didn't have the stories.
To All.. link to Hulbert's Financial Digest
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/commerce/hfdProduct.asp?siteid=mktw&pname=mark
Also found this site by accident, (new to me anyways..)
http://www.investorcanada.com/
SoB
Thanks for Super Stocks book tip.
1) Re: Canico. Well I thought I could escape around $12 (It was there long enough); but alas I didn't. My plan was to unload a bit, wait for a downturn, and pick it up for another ride up. Oh well - will see what the show has instore..
2) Re: Valueline. Funny - I received a mailing from them recently to subscribe. I haven't heard anyone speak of that publication, yet I have heard at various times, goods things about it.
3) Speaking of Newsletters - not that I would ask you to devulge the names of the ones you subscribe to - (<g> nudge nudge, wink wink, saynomore..) - I wanted to know if you have subscribed to the Mark Hulbert Financial Digest [HFD] Newsletter?
To All
"First and foremost, The Hulbert Financial Digest is not an investment adviser. It's a completely independent, impartial and authoritative rating service that arms you with the facts about stock and mutual fund investment letter performance.
Nobody cares more about your wealth and the future it promises than you do. That's why you might subscribe to a stock or mutual fund advisory newsletter.
Mark Hulbert started his newsletter to help you choose yours. Based on proven performance, not unproven claims.
In 1979, Mark attended an investment seminar and heard dozens of newsletter editors promise to double, triple or quadruple investors' money each year - with complete safety. Out of curiosity - and disbelief - Mark Hulbert followed many of the advisers' recommended portfolios on paper and found their claims to be wildly exaggerated. The same gurus who promised to perform miracles were actually being beaten by the market averages.
From the eye-opening experience, The Hulbert Financial Digest was born."
The Consumer Reports of Investment Newsletters I suppose. Back in the mid-90s, I had subscribed to the Investors Digest. It was $70CDN for a year thanks to a TD intro promotion, and I know Mark Hulbert had rated it quite high (though today their newsletter is not mentioned on HFD). Nothing wrong with the newsletter - but even then I was more into speculation than investment. If my portfolio today was 4X larger, perhaps 1/4 would be in "investments" such as those from that newsletter.
Even though the HFD is only $60US, hard to say the value seeing as not "all" newsletters are listed.
Sexton
Re: TF - Do you have any direct experience with CCRA rulings?
Fortunately no. LOL!!
In the US if you hold the security less than a year it is taxed I believe, not as favorable (mind the fact I never use "our" and always pronounce the 26th letter of the alphabet as it was intended with "B"ee, "G"ee and "Z"ee) - as say holding MORE than a year. There of course are complications with "Federal" "State" and even "City" taxes that affect all this.
But with Canada there is no "rule" that I am aware of. The tax guide mentions things like "if it favors one or the other" e.g. I can claim my wife's dividends and/or any chartible donations in her name [technically none before our marriage]. But, here where it gets a little foggy for me, I seem to recall a court case whereby someone claimed their wife's donations and it was rejected.
Another situation. You are self-employed. Your wife "works" for you, and you pay her a salary. They do a detailed audit and find you are paying her 3x the amount that someone "in that position" would otherwise get - they would call that "income splitting" and come for you to pay the money as if it were your salary (I spoke with an accountant who told me of such a case) plus interest plus penalty.
I think there are cases where people blatantly take advantage of the system and those are the ones who are caught.
For me right now most of my trades, unforunately, are tax deferred so I don't have that much of a financial/tax headache. But if you are really serious I would:
(A) Ask others on the boards (PM) their thoughts - or pose questions on popular threads.. [I would be interested too!]
(B) Perhaps split your accounts - Long Term in one, short term in another. So that if the CCRA made a ruling against you, it would only affect ONE account, and not ALL accounts (e.g. hard to deal with an account that is mixed; so they would probably throw the book at your entire portfolio).
I ended up splitting up myself and wife's accounts because it was hard for me to keep the stuff straight.
(C) Seek professional help - an accountant or two or three who will put their comments in writing (not that helps, they are accountants which means they are all CROOKS!!!!!!; and to think those BLOODY CROOKED CGAs can vouch for me being Canadian!!! .
I question how far you could go with claiming HUGE money in captial gains and ZERO in earned income -- with the tax man.
Your better bet may be to setup a Corporation - and have it hold the investments. If you have to claim as "income" anyways, this way you could claim things like newsletters; research etc. Although the same accountant I spoke with suggested that wasn't so "as simple as it sounds". But that wasn't under the premise that investing was a full time job.
Said differently:
The tax man might not let you treat your "investments" as capital gains; but he might not let you call it "earned income" either. WIth a corporation, you pay yourself a salary, and pay tax on that - but at least it is EARNED income which allows you to put some of that money into an RSP.
Interesting.....
Anyahoo sorry. But good question.
Sexton.
Re: Michael, do you ever trade options?
Although you don't know me from Adam, I would like to give you my two cents on options - at least my experience.
I have a few books - one from the Financial Times on Options; others include options in part of the book - I would not recommend those. There are probably LOTS of others that are better.
Years ago I played various options - Imperial Oil, Banks (TD/Royal/BMO); Ballard; TVX; ATI; NT etc. Calls and Puts.
Definitely learned a few lessions the hard way. Here are my thoughts:
- I never held any with the concept of converting to stock; merely to trade; I know "of" but never got involved in LEAPS; never traded Index options or currency; purely stocks
- options quoted in LOTS; you typically buy 1 or 2 (+) lots (1 lot = 100 shrs); the lot size and price seems small - "1 lot = $225 + 30"; easy to buy plenty of LOTS - but options are risky - you can easily lose all your money with the snap of your fingers
- you have to be watching 247 - I thought penny stocks were bad; you have very little time to react - remember TIME is the number one thing - it is ALWAYS against you.
- they expire in the month they are for, on the 3rd Friday (this really hurts because you figure you have lots of time before the end of the month arrives - for Augustus - it was the MIDDLE - Aug 15!!)
- various cycles, but many follow Mar;Jun;Sep;Dec; never was too sure about that since some options have more than just "4" months (FWIW: the 4 months I mention - the 3rd friday is called Triple witching see http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=triple+witching+friday
for some interesting articles - e.g. volitility is greater on those days typically)
- they settle in ONE day (helps/hurts) on Dec 30 (it hurt me one year! LOL!)
- With my Broker (TD) they didn't (probably still don't) have all the combinations setup in WebBroker; meaning you have to call the options desk for them to setup (or convince them to buy them at WebBroker prices); This is a bother in so many ways - you say "I want option XYZ, and you base your analysis around it - and then you go to buy it, and it isn't even available with your broker!!"
- If you buy a Call; if the stock goes DOWN or stays at the same price; or rises SLOWLY - but is under your STRIKE, you lose your money; The reverse is true if a PUT - stock goes up; stays; down a bit. You can see what I mean by paper trading - and watching them; the concept here is "in the money; out of the money" - you can buy options are already IN or close to or OUT of the money - OUT of the money costs far less than IN.
- Watch for tax treatment. In Canada for example, the CCRA (oh canada your rules are so bloody loose and vague..) treats "investment" sales as "capital gains" - buying a PUT on OCT BMO isn't what one would consider an "investment" but a trade - negative at that. If you do this plently, do these trades in another account to prevent any unfavorable ruling. (No different than Shorting IMO)
- The biggest negative deals with my own feeling on PRE-ANNOUNCEMENTS. Personally I do not know WHY they are done - or WHY they are allowed. To me (perhaps I am green and someone can enlighten me) the pre-announcements should be (if they are to be called) so many days before the release of earnings - e.g. fixed to say 30 days.
Why do I mention this? If you bet the wrong way, INSTANTLY your option will become worthless. You bet "Corel is going to announce bad earnings, and you buy a put, they come out 2 weeks before the earnings, and PRE-announce excellent earnings, the stock takes off). But lets say the company didn't pre-announce, the stock might go down with the anticipation of a bad announcement - you probably have time to get out (either in or out of money but still get out). But with a preannouncement, they catch you off guard. [sort of like roulette -- see below].
Bottomline, I find PRE-ANNOUNCEMENTS unfair and DEADLY for option traders. I suppose if you stick with an INDEX, the hit isn't so overwhelming.. but ...
- To hammer the point home. The two guys that developed a way to price options (Black and Scholes) later and won the Nobel prize for doing so, were involved with the LTCM (Long Term Capital Management) fiasco. A great story (was on PBS) of how "geniuses" found a way to make money (!!!) - to beat the system. And watched it all vanish. Not to forget that happened during the Asian Crisis, but it does suggest even geniuses can lose serious money.... with options.
But without being totally negative toward them. I do see them as what they are meant for - hedges; insurance. I would like to get back involved but play what is COMMON (e.g. TSX, DJI, NASDAQ, S&P500) - broad indexes with plenty of volume and of which are probably always setup with your broker).
- e.g. I am looking at September being a bad month - so why not buy a "LOT" of Dow or Nasdaq PUTS. Probably cost about $300US for a lot - so for $300, if the market goes down, based on history, you might turn that $300 insurance policy perhaps into $1-2K profit. Worse case you lose $300.
Instead of me saying "I think September is BAD - so I will dump a lot of my longterm big board stocks and wait it out" -- do this "I will buy options to offset my exposure, a short term insurance policy". I am sure a lot of Options books will delve into this deeper.
There are a LOT of different ways to play options (like everything else). I only have experienced the two BASIC (CALL/PUTS) - but there are things like "writing your own naked option". Again books can help. (Value line has a good article:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=naked+writes+options
(sorry for the XXX .. little down the page)
These are things I would also like to research - again for insurance and perhaps a little money on the side. (One book I have that "talks about" options, didn't even get past the basic CALLS/PUTS)
- Peter Lynch (Ran Fidelity Magellan) is against options since they do not preserve capital. [this is my example - An investment in XYZ for $6000 - drops say 15%; you are out $900; a similar option - you would be out a maximum of say $300 for a single lot; BUT if the stock rebounds, you could eventually have all $6000 back, but you never get back the $300].
From his "One up on Wall Street" - he has never bought an option; no idea why he should; and "it's hard enough to make money in regular stocks wihtout getting distracted by these side bets, which I'm told are nearly imposible to win unless you're a professional trader."
My advice
- Get a good book and understand what you are doing.
- Paper trade and see how things go.
- Don't invest TOO much in a single trade (spread the wealth)
- SERIOUSLY understand money management - get in/out quickly.
OT: My last trip to Vegas - I split about $1200US into 6 nights - $200/night - however I ended the night; that money was not pooled into another nite; and I never borrowed from another nite. Sure I probably lost about $600 - but there were nights I did well and others I didn't - and I enjoyed myself. On previous trips, I had lost almost all of the equivalent maybe by the 4th night and hated it -- IMO there is nothing worse than being in Vegas with no money.
- Gambling - a good book on Gambling (Money Management) is by John Patrick. I have the one on Craps (Have Video on Roulette). I learned casino money management; how to pick the RIGHT machines over the wrong ones; how to make bets with Roulette etc.
So there you are at the roulette table, you are following a system of betting; everything going good; the dealer gets the ball and starts the spinl; and some newbie hits their drink onto the table - hitting chips. The dealer MUST stop PLAY. They quickly get the ball and have to fix up the table. Basically something happened that was unplanned - not part of the normal course. So John would suggest - grab your chips and leave the table. Because the the flow has been broken.
One of his books: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0818406070/qid=1062985503/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-506080....
To apply this to the market - pre-announcements; sudden restructuring; accounting anomolies; sudden management departures - to me are all serious reasons to quickly re-evaluate and see if it is good to continue with that stock. They all "disturb-the-flow".
Sexton..
PS REALLY OT: Roulette wheels wear out over time, and tend to be biased toward ONE side of the wheel. If you watch over time (an entire day perhaps or longer), you might find ONE QUADRANT of the wheel has more numbers hit than anywhere else. Most casinos will change the wheel frequently - making this phenomenom - but what about "pop-up tent" casinos and the islands....
While in Vegas, I noticed an Asian woman watching the wheel. She then placed a bet ON - and AROUND a specific number - piling up chips like a pyramid. HER BET WON!. She made a few other bets in a similar fashion - on different numbers - a couple didn't pan out, but she did win another. Then she left. I was too green at the time to pick up if the numbers she bet were on a specific part of the wheel - but I wasn't so green not to pile up my bets with hers and made some cool coin.
EDIT 1046EST: Forgot the most important bit -- I made SOME money on options, but then started getting more comfortable and bought "larger lots" (3;5;10) and ended up losing far more than I ever made and gave up this expensive gambling habit
I have Zweigs book, but haven't re-read it in a while.
The one thing that sticks out from that book is his statistical discussion about holidays and days of the week. And of course that September is the worst month.
Speaking of books.. (great it was discussed)..
I was wondering if you have read, and what you have thought of The Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham. The new paperback is the Revised Edition with "Jason Zwieg" (No relation to Marty AFAIK).
http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?N=35&R=1267661&act=A03&Item=978006055566&Sect...
Business Week Aug 11; The Barker Portfolio
"The Intelligent Investor, first published in 1949 by the Moses of value investing, Benjamin Graham, went through five versions before his death in 1976. While stffl an invaluable exposition of such basics as the centrality of buying securities at prices low enough to ensure a "margin of safety"—a cushion to absorb mistakes—the final, 1972 revision suffers by relying on case studies that are too remote to resonate now. Happily, this vastly expanded new edition is full of fresh examples and commentaries applying Graham's principles to today's markets. This is the considerable work of financial journalist Jason Zweig of Money magazine.
At 623 pages, this duet is nearly twice as long as Graham's solo, with Zweig chiming in after each of Graham's original 20 chapters. For example, where Graham analyzes Penn Central, Ling-Temco-Vought, NVF, and AAA Enterprises, Zweig follows with sharp dissections of Lucent Technologies, Tyco International, AOL Time Wamer, and eToys. You won't confuse the two authors'
prose. "If a broker ever tries to sell you an individual mortgage bond or 'CMO' tell him you are late for an appointment with your proctologist," Zweig writes. Were Graham alive, he surely would have edited that out. But I'm quibbling. Zweig took on a daunting task and succeeded admirably.
"Enterprising investors," as Graham calls the few willing to put in the time and pencil work to uncover value in stocks, will find this book well rewarding."
Another I read which was interesting was Successful Stock Market Speculation" (A Speculator's Manual) by Ted Carter.
http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?N=35&R=1316581&act=A03&Item=978096952951&Sect...
The site above has a few people who have reviewed it. Basically a discussion on buying; selling; and money management wrt speculation stocks.
I should seriously read it again. One of my problems is getting out of stocks going down. I noticed you got out of CNI clear - I watched it meander down and although put a mental stop at 11.50 still didn't trigger until it went lower - I am out most of my position, but not happy with how I executed. Meanwhile I averaged in Reliant (RRI) between 3-4, sold most but not all at high 5s-mids 6s on the way down, and bought in again in the low 4's - never really buying or selling all at one price.
I spend too much time piddling with a "limit" price, and re-jiggle; re-jiggle. I have to start getting in and out at market when the goings good.
Re: Daily trades -- Stock Watch supposedly provides this.
My question:
Not sure if this is part of analytics - but --
When do a quick quote the system shows "last 10 trades".
Do members see "ALL trades" for the day? (either THERE or elsewhere on the site).
Their Answer:
Yes subscribers will see all the trades for the day.
Not sure if you, or anyone here subscribes to that site. I was looking at it since it appeared to provide news stories I haven't seen on say Yahoo! or by symbol unlike Canada Newswire.
But they offer Real Time quotes and Market Depth; insider trades; I think shorts etc.
Plus 30 day trial on most features (excluding the premiums).
My plans changed, but I was thinking of the trial probably for October (their trial is 30days; if you decide to convert to pay plan, they charge up to the end of the month - so it is best to start the trail on the 1st).
Hope that helps some..
sexton
CKG -- in another for another 1K
The hard way -- 400@3.22 and 600@3.25..
Other lot in other account was at at the all important 2.69 (1K). "69" is my lucky number in more ways than one...
Both lots - had to wait and wait and wait.. hope when this puppy takes off I can jump out fast...
At any rate, I will reload and wait another day for another 1K
Cheers all..
Sexton
Exchange Rate questions... (my two cents for all--few days old but..)
I use the "yearly" bank of canada rate (site was posted) to calculate all the puny US$ dividends and US$ interest.
As for actual stock purchases - sort of unorthodox I am sure. Basically I use two pieces of info: (A) The Noon Bank of Canada Rate (which I download into a spreadsheet) "times" (B) The premium charged by TD Waterhouse.
So for a purchase the exchange is slightly higher and for a sell, the exchange is slightly lower than the BoC noon rate. I based their premium (no actual percentage is given) on random callings on days around noon then doing the math based on the BoC.
As at today my buy premium calculated is "1.004730369" and sell is "1.00731". So BoC rate of 1.5855 would be 1.5928.
Not sooooo accurate as it would by calling into a broker. But enough. (the BUY is not equal to the SELL - hence using BoC noon alone isn't enough... INHO)
As you said "most advantageous" and "use only one approach" - well this is my approach. To me the BoC rate isn't right since there is no premium. And it is more fair to include the premiums since that is the way life is.
I guess the tax people could force me to follow the same logic for dividends, but we are talking under $100 for dividends compared to thousands for stocks. So I couldn't careless.
As for buying money..
Excluding non-common banks etc, I have found TD Waterhouse does provide a pretty good US$ exchange rate. Even ING can't compare. Royal Bank's site allows you to calculate and you get "Royally" reamed.
Also they have "REAL TIME" now - that is pretty accurate too. I have found the trade desk at TDW tends to use a rate for most of the day (I may be wrong but I have called a couple of times in the day and have received the same rate) - whereas the REAL TIME constantly changes.
But again, they are almost BANG ON - on the numerous times checked - so I know they (TD Bank/Waterhouse) are not increasing the premium
(Note: I used "premium" since the rates never match BoC at Noon - and are roughly increased/decreased by the amounts above I stated -- if it is not the right word - SHOOT ME! -- but educate me first.. PLEASE!!)
OT - Royal Bank's VISA GOLD (CANADIAN) has (will) increase their fee for foreign purchases from 1.8 to 2.5%. Thats "US$" x "Royal's Outrageous Premium" x "2.5%". I ended up getting a TD Bank US$ Credit card - unfortunately $25fee per year - which includes auto collision waiver, BUT I calculated my fees are more than that. BONUS: You can AUTOMATICALLY have the VISA card paid from ANY US BANK in NA.
sob