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Then why not sell your HGLC at market and move on then? You will get less than .0001 on a market order, but at least you'll be out and able to sleep again.
Maybe you're new to pink sheet companies, but most are scams. That's why they trade on the pinks in the first place. I think that the majority of people here can agree that FFGO isn't a blue chip company; the .0000 to .0002 price tag gives it away. But so what? No need to fall in love with a publicly traded company to capitalize on it. Just buy their stock low and sell it higher. A profit is a profit no matter how you slice or dice it.
I'm more interested in profitable trading than I am in the legitimacy of the companies that I trade. In my opinion, if I were to buy only stocks of companies that were on the up and up, that would rule out every publicly traded company on Wall Street and there wouldn't be anything left to choose from.
Shortly is a relative term PD. Now if Hunt Gold is talking in terms of light years, shortly could be rather longly.
I'm sorry to hear that you sold HGLC at the bottom. But it's pretty common knowledge that stock promoters immediately dump shares given them to promote a company. They rarely if ever hang on to the shares even if they think the shares may appreciate because of their promotion campaign. These promotion companies simply don't have the luxury of time.
As any other business, even stock promoters have bills to pay, and they don't just promote stock of one company. Think about it for a minute, if promoters held the stock given to them by all the companies that they promote, how would they ever go about paying the day to day bills of running their business as all their revenues would be tied up in risky penny stocks?
Secondly, market cap is determined by multiplying share price by issued and outstanding shares, not by multiplying share price by authorized, issued, and outstanding shares as you're doing when you come up with that $230,000,000 company valuation. You're getting ahead of yourself and acting as if HGLC has "issued" all those newly authorized shares which simply isn't the case.
On November 7th 2008 Hunt Gold "authorized" an additional 2 trillion shares, but authorized doesn't mean issued. Sure they can and probably will issue them eventually, but Hunt Gold will hopefully get something in exchange for those shares. Certainly they will be paying the day to day bills with some of those shares, but my suspicion is that the bulk of them will be used to acquire more assets and to further their exploration activities.
And as far as your concerns over them changing their name and business models over the relatively short time span ... what can I say other than welcome to penny stocks, as this is also par for the course (as you seem to be discovering). But none of this means that you still can't make serious coin on rumors and momentum alone. Stop worrying so much about company fundamentals. Don't you know that fundamentals is a filthy 12 letter word in OTC and pinky land?
Best of luck to you though in your other picks.
End of Jan what year?
I hate to suck the wind from your sails, but the .0021 dividend that HGLC is talking about is the supposed value of Hunt Gold's liquidated Moly interest. And that $0.0021 "value" is to be distributed to HGLC share holders in the form of stock of another company. In other words, it's going to be a stock dividend, not a cash dividend. It's spelled out in HGLC's November 26, 2008 PR below.
Link:
http://money.aol.com/news/articles/qp/pr/_a/hunt-gold-corporation-disposal-of/rfid161999927
I hope HGLC goes to .0002 just so you can finally sell and move on to greener pastures. Obviously, you base your trading on company fundamentals. But fundamentals don't apply to penny stocks in my opinion. Stick with technical indicators such as increasing trading dollar volume, relative strength, etc. on the penny plays and save the fundamentals for companies that at least file Q's and K's. In my opinion, HGLC will trade to .0006-.001 within the next few weeks or months based primarily on rumors, hype and investors current general love affair with gold during this world economic meltdown.
Save the tongue in cheek "But what does HGLC have to do with gold?" question. At least they're looking for it and the word "Gold" is in the company's name ... and in my opinion that's all that's required if/when a full fledged gold rush is upon us.
I don't particularly like the idea of HGLC listing there, but to each their own. In my opinion, dual listing simply opens the doors to more manipulation.
That's good to know. If history rarely repeats itself, then we don't have to worry about Lumb's past shenanigans either do we? Or is it that only bad history repeats itself as others here portend?
Ideally a cash dividend is always the best. But we already know that there won't be a cash dividend. So we're left with our dividends being paid to us in shares of another company. But in this case, restricted shares are no worse than unrestricted shares in my opinion. Think about it, if the dividends were paid to us in unrestricted shares, everyone would dump their shares the day they appeared in their accounts. With everyone selling the price would surely drop to next to nothing due to the selling pressure. And who knows, if gold does go to $2000/oz two years from now, maybe the value of the dividends will actually be worth more than they are today. Still, a dividend of restricted shares better than no dividend at all. At least there's a snowball's chance in hell of them being worth something two years from now ... granted, that's a slim chance, but still a chance.
Market makers DO keep inventories. Even in stinky pinkies such as FFGO. MMs make a market for stinky pinkies because of the huge spreads between bid and ask, otherwise they wouldn't even mess around with these. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that MMs are only where the money is (for them). We the peon retail investors may never make a dime in these stocks, but you can rest assured that the MMs are making a killing. When they quit making money on a particular stock, they vanish from that ticker symbol and are no where to be found. It's in their best interest to add .00001 or .00005 shares (that they shake from sellers) to their inventories so that they have them to give back to buyers for .0001 or higher. .0001 is a cool 900% percent markup from the .00001 that they got them for.
I hope thay don't say "Seven out line away"
HGLC @ .0001 primed to move from the bottom of the pit. They're a gold exploration company and are awaiting assay reports of 6 recently drilled cores. Still drilling more cores as I type this. Stock dividend to shareholders to be announced soon per the company.
"... The Company announced on November 14, 2008 the sale of its "Molybdenum" interests held through its subsidiary company, American Molygold Corp. The sale amount is US$620 million to be settled in shares of Common Stock of a USA quoted Company focussed exclusively on the business of Molybdenum. The sale will be completed upon the transfer of title of the various claims held by American Molygold Corp., to the Purchaser. This transaction will be completed by late January 2009 ..."
More from Jan 8th PR:
1. CONTINUED DRILLING "MOCKINGBIRD GOLD MINE":
Drilling at the Company's "Mockingbird" Dandy Mine, by TonaTec will resume by no later than January 10, 2009. Two holes are planned at this location. Stockholders will be updated as to the additional drilling and exploration
plans being finalized at this time.
2. ASSAY REPORTS:
A substantial amount of core from the first 6 drill holes at the Great West and the Pocahontas Gold Mines has been split. The core has been shipped to Jacobs Assay, an independent assay laboratory located in Tucson, Arizona. The remainder of the core will be split and shipped this week. Jacobs Assay will be running the Company's core samples as a priority project, with the first assay results expected before the end of January 2009.
3. COMPANY SHARE STRUCTURE:
The Company recently increased its Authorized Share Capital to facilitate any deals and acquisitions which may be offered to the Company. The Company has not issued any additional shares of its Common Stock whatsoever. The amounts of the Company's outstanding shares reflected on the OTC Pink Sheets web site are constantly updated and are correct.
The Company has received a large number of enquiries in respect of a Reverse Split of the Company's stock. This will not be effected by the Company whatsoever and the Company's Management consider that a Reverse Split of the Company's Common Stock is highly detrimental to stockholder interests.
Stockholders may rest assured that no Reverse Split is being effected by the Company whatsoever.
And more .... see the complete PR at this link:
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS193937+08-Jan-2009+MW20090108
"... It is coring samples not mining gold.. a step in the right direction, but not profitable mining yet..."
True Share Oasis, but if you wait until a gold exploration company finds gold and is profitable before you buy their stock, you'll be paying several dollars per share for it ... not $0.0001
You can't get rich overnight buy buying into companies that are already profitable because that profitability is already factored into their share price (high P/Es). Sure, stocks like those can appreciate 100% in a year, not common, but it does happen from time to time. But I wouldn't and most here wouldn't consider a 100% gain as life style altering.
But in hopes of getting rich overnight so to speak (why most of us buy penny stocks in the first place), the idea is to buy a company before they're making money ... in hopes that one day they do, or at least one day can prove the potential to. This also is extremely rare in penny land especially, as in my opinion 99.9% of these companies never make a dime. We all know it's like finding the proverbial needle in a haystack, but should a stinky pinky company ever actually amount to something, the payoff to it's shareholders who got in at the ground floor can absolutely be lifestyle altering gains of several thousand percentage points.
It's gambling. We know that. But sometimes when people gamble they actually win. I'm sure that most who win the big lotteries never expected to win with their ticket, but they bought their 150 million to 1 odds ticket just in hopes that they're that 1.
That was one heck of a fat finger. I hate it when that happens. Almost as bad as clicking buy when you meant to click sell.
I agree Jim. UPDV is overvalued. In my opinion UPDV has diluted the O/S to close to 2 billion shares. And with the current share price of $0.0015 that's a market cap of 6 million dollars ... and for what?!! An oil and gas company who's CEO just jumped ship? A company that's several quarters behind in SEC filings? A company who's profits are in part tied to oil that's currently trading $100 a barrel LESS than it was 10 months ago? A company that owes Sheridan out the whazoo and next to nothing in the bank to repay them with?
Doesn't look too promising to me. I'm not saying that UPDV won't be around for the next couple of years. What I'm saying is that Sheridan OWNS UPDV and UPDV's only hope as a going concern is to restructure ... meaning at the expense of the bag ... oops, I mean shareholders.
Best of luck to all who hold this pig for long term gains because there will never be any in my opinion. Go to Google finance and look at UPDV's long term chart to see what dilution has done to this over the years. Since July 22, 2005, each $10,000 invested then would be worth just $25 today (barely enough to cover lunch for 2 or 3 at McDonald's). As pathetic as that is, UPDV's STILL not done diluting ... it's the way they've operated in the past, and the way they will continue to operate in the future. Why should anyone expect anything different today and going forward?
UPDV may continue to be around 2 or 3 years from now (after 3 or 4 more business model and/or symbol changes of course), but all of the current shareholders will be long gone from disgust or wiped out if they're still holding. Your only hope to make money on this is to cross your fingers and hope to flip it short term for gains. But don't expect to get rich doing this because there's not enough trading volume to support any meaningful trades. And there won't be any volume so to speak as long as UPDV's stuck in the pinks.
If you want out, sell at market and be done with it. You'll get .00001 instead of .0001 but at least you'll be out and can move on with your life ... sheeze! But if you do sell, please sell to me ;)
Happy New Year to all! Be safe if out and about tonight.
I agree. No way can you flip enough shares like that when you're moving 10 Gs. If he's buying at .0001 and selling at .0002 enough volume to move that kind of money, then he's the only one able to do that. Quite frankly, I don't believe him and haven't seen proof of his trades in the price/volume charts.
I agree with you 100%
Most promoters start to dump their shares back into the market the day they get them. They really aren't that interested in holding them into their own pump. They already made their windfall the day HGLC signed up for their services. The question is ... when do they get their shares?
Why argue over semantics? It doesn't matter what you call it ... 3 for 1 stock dividend or forward split. The bottom line is BIH increased the A/S by a factor of about 4 for a reason. Dilution of the O/S will be the net effect of this distribution. And that's not a good thing. The SP will naturally adjust downward to reflect the increase in the O/S.
The intrinsic value of BIH doesn't increase with this stock dividend payment, so why should it's market cap increase? Answer: It won't. Market cap will stay the same (or go lower with this recent turn of events) so the SP will go down. A cash dividend would help the share price but I don't see it happening. The BOD already said no. And how often do umpires change their calls?
There won't be a cash dividend now that the sale fell through, no money to fund it. I think if there is a dividend it will be in the form of stock. In my opinion they increased the A/S to accommodate a stock dividend to sorta smooth ruffled feathers, but don't think that will help much. Everything was riding on the Baron sale for most stockholders.
If they have cash to give out as a dividend, they would certainly have cash to fix up the appearance of that eyesore of a building. At least slap some new vinyl siding on it. Just thinking outloud ...
So Galo tipped his hand ... but it turns out he was holding a deuce and not an ace. Great bluff though.
So if he was bluffing about the Baron's deal, you might suggest that when he PRs the new dividend numbers to be a little more specific to eliminate any possibility for debate.
Have him express a 2 cent dividend as $0.02, not .02 cents, or if that's too difficult for him, have him simply type "2 cents" with no zeros or decimal points to confuse the matter. I don't care what anyone thinks, .02 and 2 are not the same number.
Secondly, have him spell out whether or not the dividend will be paid in cash or stock. And if paid in stock, have him spell out whether or not the stock will be restricted. And if the stock dividend is restricted, ask him to spell out for how long.
Don't give the guy any wiggle room to weasel out in the future. And don't give the naysayers or doubting Thomas's here (myself included) any fuel to throw on the fire should BIH go up (or down) in flames.
MM's don't care if a share price is going up or down. All they want to intice are trades.
Don't believe for a second that they're not interested in trading volume in HGLC. If they weren't, they'd drop out and not be making a market for it.
They make their money on actual buy/sell transactions. Right now they're making coin on the downward momo. When trading volume dries up at the bottom, they'll do what they can to get people trading again. They'll do that by allowing the SP to tick up to entice retail buying interest/volume. MM's make money either direction, but nothing if no money trades hands.
Bingo! You hit the nail on the head! "Why would they" is the 64 thousand dollar question! Why would they offer up shares at .00019 in the first place? Why not just make it .0002 and be done with it. The MM's have reasons for doing what they do. I can't place sell limit orders at 5 decimals either ... so where do these prices come from?
Link to that fact please.
You must be the glass is half empty type. You say 2 billion shares dumped. I say: To who? They can't just dump into thin air! Logic tells me they can only be dumped to buyers or MM inventories. So who's going to be right when this is all said and done? Those selling at .0001 or those buying at .0001? Only time will tell. But I'll hang on to my shares, thank you very much. Gotta love the volume too.
But it's been "done" in the past too from what I can recall and it shot up several hundred percent as it rose from the ashes. Made a few shareholders very happy for holding a stock that was at zero bid. Can it happen again? Hell if I know, but I've seen stranger things happen. No need to stick a fork in this Butterball just yet cuz the button hasn't popped out.
Best to all.
Now that's a fat rat!
No you don't. Don't fall far it.
I can't argue with you there. But as long as I've been invested in UPDV there's seldom been the "right" news ... but plenty of "wrong" news.
I still argue that this recent run-up in price is being orchestrated by just one or two traders with $20K to throw around. Look, I'll admit it, I've done it before in other penny stocks. Hoping that just me and a couple of my investor buddies buying in at the ask over time would run up the share price in a particular dead stock hoping to create buying interest from newbies or momo players. Sometime we succeeded and were able to get out at a nice profit selling into runs generated, but often we failed as us alone just couldn't create the necessary interest to get the ball rolling ... and we took pretty good hits.
It's all a game folks, and there are many players. Play the game right, you win. Play it wrong, you lose.
OK, I came clean. But it doesn't mean that I won't continue to play. Me and thousands of other traders like myself do this every day. I just wanted to bring this to the attention of the new investor/trader out there who may be unaware of such practices.
Do I feel bad about playing this game? No. It's every man and woman for themselves in these shark infested waters, and the sooner newbies understand this the better. But that said, I have to draw the line somewhere and will never be the part of a group that attempts to manipulate a stock by creating rumors or untruths on stock message boards. That's just plain wrong, and I prefer to be able to sleep at night with both eyes closed.
Let people complain, that's all part of the permitting process and what permits are for. That doesn't necessarily mean HGLC won't be granted the permits. Heck, my neighbors complained when I tried to get a building permit to construct a rather large storage building on my property.
I eventually got the permit and built as planned. My neighbors didn't like it, but I never liked them so the feelings were mutual.
True authorized share count is 2B. Outstanding share count is still a mystery. But if I had to guess on that I'd say the O/S to be somewhere between 1 and 2B, and probably closer to 2B.
Jack guesstimated the float to be somewhere around 800M in an email to me but that was around the first part of Sep, and the float doesn't include the millions of restricted shares held by insiders.
Something tells me that they're close to being maxed out, thus my reasoning for thinking that UPDV will be increasing the A/S again sooner rather than later. Without having shares to issue to pay the bills with, they really don't have too many other options if they intend to keep the doors open ... in my opinion.
https://esos.state.nv.us/SOSServices/AnonymousAccess/CorpSearch/corpActions.aspx?lx8nvq=lisF54chDj9xJB%252fV2JB5RQ%253d%253d&CorpName=UNIVERSAL+PROPERTY+DEVELOPMENT+AND+ACQUISITION+CORPORATION
Exactly! No one is ever right on their trades 100% of the time. So you have to expect to call a few wrong ones. Just pick up the pieces and move on when that happens. Never quit! When a door shuts in your face, a new window of opportunity opens.
Have a good weekend all!
That's a very good advice Titan . I've been trading penny stocks ever since the computer and online trading made it possible, and have been burnt several times over the years. In not just the pennies, but in NASDAQ and Amex listed companies as well.
In the early years I use to believe that a CEO's primary job was to create wealth for the shareholders, but later learned of the reality that retail shareholders are the least of their worries. I also made the mistake of taking this advice from financial advisors: Buy and hold quality companies and ride out the volatility as stock in good companies over time generally go up. Well that's all fine and dandy if there really are such things as "good" companies, but I've seldom had the pleasure of investing in any.
I had a portfolio once made up of only S&P500 5 star rated stocks, bought and held 6 or 7 of them and only one stock in that portfolio increased in value over several years, but it wasn't near enough to offset the large losses in the other 6. Ever since then I swore off the "buy and hold" strategy, and swore off of buying stocks recommended by analysts. I've come to learn that they all have their own agendas, and it has nothing to do with my best interests.
And in my opinion, "buy and hold" is old school as I've explained before in prior posts. It worked pre-online trading days and pre-discount broker days. It just made sense to buy and hold back then because it was just too time consuming and expensive to do it any other way.
I remember back when the only way that I could research a company was by reading the Wall Street Journal, and the financial sections of newspapers and trips to the library for SEC research. There were no personal computers or Internet back then. It would take me 3 months or more of leg work just to gather enough information on a company to decide whether or not to buy their stock. And the same legwork was involved to follow a company once I bought it. It was very time consuming. Not to mention, I had to set up an appointment to meet with my broker and then get in the car and drive to his office to make trades. And in those days we swapped physical paper certificates. And commissions were high. Discount brokers didn’t exist. On more than one occasion I’ve paid over $1500 to my broker just to trade a thousand shares.
Today, I generally spend no more than just a few days researching a stock to buy thanks to the Internet. And I don't even know what my discount broker looks like because I've only stepped foot into his office one time, and that was just to drop off money with the guy at the front desk. And I only made that trip because I needed cleared funds available ASAP. For some reason ScotTrade sits on funds transferred directly from my bank for 3 business days if I’m using the funds to purchase penny stocks. They’re not very user friendly when it comes to trading pennies … but I digress …
But online discount brokers really are great. It’s wonderful to be able to buy thousands of shares for just $7.00 and a couple of clicks of the mouse from a laptop anywhere in the world. I only pay more than that when buying penny stocks because my broker charges an additional 1/2 of one percent on the trade. But still, $57 to trade $10K is still peanuts compared to the past.
Now it's just too darn easy and cheap to day or swing trade stocks. That's why the majority of people do it. And in my opinion, it's the only way to make money in the stock market anymore. Less time consuming too because you're no longer trading on company fundamentals that require days or weeks of going through DD such as reading hundreds or thousands of pages of SEC filings, company insider investigations, PACER research, etc., etc. Day traders and swing traders don't give a hoot about all that because they base their buy/sell/hold decisions primarily on technical indicators; what is the stock doing Vs. what is the company or it’s insiders doing.
I lost in UPDV because I broke my own rule of not exiting at a predetermined price. And normally I would never buy and hold a penny stock but I made an exception (based on emotion) for UPDV, and that exception ended up costing me.
But overall since I've changed from being an investor to a trader, my yearly returns have improved. I will never win them all and I accept that. But the key to successful trading in my opinion is to stick to a couple of fundamental rules:
Rule number 1: Trade like a robot with zero emotion. Base all buy/hold/sell decisions on predetermined criteria. We are emotional creatures by design, so that works against us in this business.
Rule number 2: Know at what price to get out before you even buy. If your trade gains x% sell. No ifs ands or buts. If your trade loses y% sell. No ifs ands or buts.
For someone new to this I would recommend a very good book on the subject: Financial Freedom Through Electronic Day Trading by Van K. Tharp & Brian June. Over the years I have read many on the subject but this one is my all time favorite. I refer to it often. The author’s approach to day trading is to day trade just as any other good business owner operates a business, with a business plan.
Best of luck to all here.
Hi slob. I wish you only the best in UPDV. I guess what finally did me in was UPDV's total lack of shareholder updates. You have to go back almost 6 months (to May 19) for the last update from UPDV pertaining to UPDV!! There have been several concerning Heartland, but I'm not concerned about Heartland because I don't even own it, except for the percentage of HTOG owned through UPDV (which is still a mystery number). I'm concerned about UPDV and ALL their subsidiaries!
What about the status on UPDV's other holdings, or an update as to where they're at regarding their missed filings? Sure I can call or email Jack which I have done on several occasions, but I would like to see some sort of "public" update in the form of a press release or 8K filing. I just can't help from thinking that no news is the same as bad news.
Thanks Tom. Speaking of brokerage firms, I use ScotTrade but on penny stocks I am only allowed to place limit orders, which I normally do for obvious reasons. But on rare occasions, sometimes I prefer to be able to place a market order. Are you aware of an online broker without this limitation on penny stocks? Feedback from anyone reading this would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
I'm bashing UPDV because I lost $16K in this. Would hate to see anyone else lose like I did. And believe me, if I could short this stock I would. Exactly, how does a person living in the United States short this company. I use ScotTrade and I can't.
This company will never make anything for a long term shareholder because all Kamal knows how to do is dilute. If you don't believe me prove it for yourself. Go to Yahoo Finance and pull up a chart on UPDV. Select max for time range. Then scroll over a date around June or July 2000. That's what dilution and reverse splits will do to the price per share.
But if you prefer, please by all means, buy this stock and hold it and prove what I'm saying for yourself. Sometimes people just need to learn everything the hard way. My kids were like that too LOL.
Now I'm not saying a daytrader or swing trader can't make money on this. Just don't get too greedy. Count your blessings if you can get out on an up note, because the majority of retail shareholders rarely do.
My opinions only. Best of luck to you.
Best of luck to you on your future trades.