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I was speaking specifically on the common shares of stock. Obviously the company filed to reorganize for a reason...and the company structure will change for that reason. Been through many of these. Always $ to be made!
There's some indications that lead me to think that is severely undervalued, even at ($35). I wouldn't even sell at that level until I know the total outcome and the bigger picture! ;)
I'm liking the 20k for $35 on L2 :) Might actually be priced too low!
A dismissal of BK keeps commons intact. It basically reverts back to pre-BK status.
It's crazy people are still selling below ask! Rookies or some alternative motive ;) $MNII
$MNII new 52-week high :)
Well, for one Aquaspin didn't say anything about a timeline on that post. You're reading a bit much into that I think? And no one will argue that this isn't going to last months/years before we see anything. However, the meetings questions were informative and positive based on settlement amounts they were talking about and the fact they said they were willing to put a lot of time and money toward resolving this very soon. Seeing how meeting 1 and 2 were 8 months apart, I don't think people are expecting this to be done tomorrow. However, in a few months the PPS may be much higher too to grab more? Word is spreading on this and the WSJ, Reuters, etc are ramping up articles on the claims too. So one can expect more people to be looking for a possibility to grab a piece of something.
Considering this went 55 years without 1 meeting on this matter, to have two, say they're doesn't seem to be any crazy issues that stand out from getting this resolved compared to previous cases, and the fact they are putting more time/money/effort to resolving this as soon as possible are big statements.
850k shares took us up 325% on Friday! If we get any real volume this week, watch out!!! $LOCMQ
Roy, thanks for finding that article! It was an awesome read! So many interesting tidbits in there. I liked the part about Cuba not scoffing at our claim of principle plus 6 percent. Although it may be different if the US laughs at their embargo claims in the end. We'll see. But right now it looks pretty good!
$MNII
NEWS it looks like it's happening! Only move back option date if it was going to be a done deal. Nice play here next week!
THIS. IS. HUGE!!!
“The U.S. delegation expressed its desire to resolve the claims as quickly as possible, and we indicated that we were willing to dedicate a substantial amount of time and energy towards trying to get to resolution,” said a senior State Department official involved in the negotiations this week.
$MNII
I would hate to not be holding shares if amazing news came out of today's talks *wink wink* $MNII
Am I crazy for thinking this should be .50-.60 right now? MNII is trading higher with more than double the OS and a lesser claim. Go figure... $FRAZ
Big volume today... Let's see what happens here!
Load up folks! Seems like this locomotive is heading forward more quickly now... Love to see those key words being used.
Legally Cuba has to pay the claims and they know that. Don't give an inch US negotiators!
I think this makes sense to me...
1st meeting - show presentations about issues
(B/w meeting, go over legalities of each side)
2nd meeting - go over legal requirements and set the stage for each side
(Once legal terms are presented, each side prepares it's negotiation process)
3rd meeting - negotiate the terms
(Return to discuss potential common ground amongst bigger team/group?)
4th meeting - settle negotiations with signed docs
This is just my guess, but makes sense to me. Of course all this can go sideways at any moment too.
I'm hoping later meetings come much more quickly...and I think they will.
We need more meetings soon!!! Keep it rolling... $FRAZ
Second briefing on trade-offs between Cuba and the United States held
Submitted by editor on Fri, 29/07/2016 - 21:00
On 28 July 2016 the second information meeting between representatives of the governments of Cuba and the United States on the issue of trade-offs was held in Washington. The Cuban delegation was led by Abelardo Moreno Fernández, Deputy Foreign Minister and the US, by Brian J. Egan, principal legal adviser to the State Department.
In this meeting, which continued the held in Havana in December 2015, delegations continued to exchange information on the claims of both States, particularly its history, characteristics and legal and legal bases, with the aim of preparing the negotiation process about this theme.
Representatives of both governments recognized the importance and usefulness of continuing these exchanges.
http://www.minrex.gob.cu/es/se-celebra-segunda-reunion-informativa-sobre-compensaciones-mutuas-entre-cuba-y-estados-unidos
Dilution will not occur. Remember that dilution only hurts the original shareholders. Also, in order to keep the claim the stock has to have over 51% ownership by US citizens. So diluting could potentially put that in jeopardy too. No business to fund, so dilution won't happen. Pretty sure a share hasn't been added in about 20+ years.
He's been reminded two days ago... He did forward something onto Carlos, so maybe Carlos is in charge of the stock stuff. Let's give them another week or so and then I'll call Nick about this.
Well that sucks. Time to sign up for a new broker!
Some have had issues with certain brokers. Might have to call it in? I use schwab and they let me buy just about anything lol...sometimes not a good thing ;)
It's nuts! But 56 years of no business will do that I suppose lol.
Oh well. Just more for me to buy down here!
Hi! Yes 16s look good to me. It hasn't dropped below 13 in about a month with a nice uptrend intact. A lot of times on these there are smaller bids hiding above that, but it's because their order doesn't meet the half MM requirement to be shown at a particular level. Has happened to me a few times here. GLTY
Think the US negotiators went into the meeting saying give us the claims principle plus real inflation for 56 years? Then settling on the principle plus 6% interest as their lower price point lol. Could happen right? That's how you negotiate, go in high and settle back to where you wanted to be. Just a thought... :)
Cuban rep just tweeted that the meetings happened today, but no substance. Maybe that's a good sign for us since they like to tout when they get their way? Trying to think positive here lol
Let's go $MNII
Info for taxes on Dividends, as I assume this is how a payout would be made...
Ordinary Dividends
Ordinary dividends are the most common type of distribution from a corporation or a mutual fund. They are paid out of earnings and profits and are ordinary income to you. This means they are not capital gains. You can assume that any dividend you receive on common or preferred stock is an ordinary dividend unless the paying corporation or mutual fund tells you otherwise. Ordinary dividends will be shown in box 1a of the Form 1099-DIV you receive.
Qualified Dividends
Qualified dividends are the ordinary dividends subject to the same 0%, 15%, or 20% maximum tax rate that applies to net capital gain. They should be shown in box 1b of the Form 1099-DIV you receive.
The maximum rate of tax on qualified dividends is:
0% on any amount that otherwise would be taxed at a 10% or 15% rate.
15% on any amount that otherwise would be taxed at rates greater than 15% but less than 39.6%.
20% on any amount that otherwise would be taxed at a 39.6% rate.
To qualify for the maximum rate, all of the following requirements must be met.
The dividends must have been paid by a U.S. corporation or a qualified foreign corporation. (See Qualified foreign corporation , later.)
The dividends are not of the type listed later under Dividends that are not qualified dividends .
You meet the holding period (discussed next).
Holding period.
You must have held the stock for more than 60 days during the 121-day period that begins 60 days before the ex-dividend date. The ex-dividend date is the first date following the declaration of a dividend on which the buyer of a stock is not entitled to receive the next dividend payment. When counting the number of days you held the stock, include the day you disposed of the stock, but not the day you acquired it. See the examples, below.
Dividends that are not qualified dividends.
The following dividends are not qualified dividends. They are not qualified dividends even if they are shown in box 1b of Form 1099-DIV.
Capital gain distributions:
Dividends paid on deposits with mutual savings banks, cooperative banks, credit unions, U.S. building and loan associations, U.S. savings and loan associations, federal savings and loan associations, and similar financial institutions. (Report these amounts as interest income.)
Dividends from a corporation that is a tax-exempt organization or farmer's cooperative during the corporation's tax year in which the dividends were paid or during the corporation's previous tax year.
Dividends paid by a corporation on employer securities held on the date of record by an employee stock ownership plan (ESOP) maintained by that corporation.
Dividends on any share of stock to the extent you are obligated (whether under a short sale or otherwise) to make related payments for positions in substantially similar or related property.
Payments in lieu of dividends, but only if you know or have reason to know the payments are not qualified dividends.
Payments shown on Form 1099-DIV, box 1b, from a foreign corporation to the extent you know or have reason to know the payments are not qualified dividends.
So I think we need to have Nick mark that we have qualified dividends on the payout! Something to keep in the back of your minds.
SEC files show 8-ks being released up to 1976 (June 28). Maybe later, just couldn't dig deep enough. That was when it was still considered a 'company'. Now just a stock entity. They'll file again when needed. He'll Aqua may be on the board of directors with his share count lol!
It's still an unknown, so I doubt that would happen. What if they are given restitution instead? A payout might not make sense. So it's hard to say what will happen. He doesn't even know...and not worth PR'ing if it's unknown. I'm sure once the dust clears and the repayment(?) type/amount is known, you'll definitely hear something as a shareholder. Nothing in life is for certain... Don't bet the farm yet.
I'm loading all the cheaper shares I can. Then when a PR is out and positive, I'll throw the farm at it.
I get the impression there are maybe 10 of us that know what's going on here. That's crazy to me! LMAO Are we crazy, or just ahead of the rush?! I'll never see another opportunity like this as long as I live. Have to take it or would have some huge regrets! Only playing with what I can lose...
Well, after a year gains aren't taxed as much lol :)
This isn't a penny stock trapped in a penny stock world. Fascinating stuff!
I think that's why their talking now. Maybe nothing comes out of this? Who knows. I know Raul Castro steps down in Feb 2018. If the economy is going to poop b/c Venezuela bailed on them and our embargo is still suppressing them, you can bet the people of Cuba will start to be heard.
The embargo is as strong as ever and the US has done a better job of regulating it. Even penalizing other countries lately that is smuggling in US products into Cuba. Castro is an idiot and has to soon realize they need to pay up.
A few points to note about Cuba paying...
1. Cuba states in their laws that they owe the claims as well. They just initially valued them at $.9billion, when we validated them at $1.9billion. So it's not that they don't recognize the need to pay. It's an international law...and Cuba has to follow it or be condemned by every other country destroying their leadership. So that's a plus!
2. In 1964(?), Fidel Castro sent a messenger to WA DC to tell the president he wanted to pay $1billion for all the sugar properties he confiscated. There was never a response from the US. But, it shows they are willing to pay big money for these properties.
3. Cuba's gov't has money. The people are poor b/c the gov't hoards it all. That's how they retain the power. Thinking Cuba is poor is what they want. There is an article that shows the extra 400k visitors from the US this year alone has netted the Cubans $660mil in new tax money. You think they don't have a revenue stream?
4. Cuba did this to themselves and our gov't recognizes that. I think both sides want normalization. Both sides agree the claims have to be settled. They just have to decide how much and how to pay. International law covers the American claims. The Cuba claims against the US don't have any laws governing them and I don't expect much to happen in that regard.
As you can see, this whole thing is a HOT MESS! But both sides agree on settling claims. The question is how much, how to pay, and when.
But, Cuba wants the embargo lifted. The US law in 1996 says a Castro can't be in power for that to happen. So will this go down in 2018? Or will it happen now and Castro just assigns his right-hand man to run the country? It's a very large issue and we're just on the outside looking through the window. News may come soon, but realistically the outcome may not be seen for years. It's the game we play here...
$MNII
Yep! That's the basis of claims they are using. What I was really curious about is the appendix - the items that prove the claim worth. I'm curious to see how these were validated. My guess is they probably were worth way more, but can only get what they prove.
Nice! I just went off of the 6% simple per year. Yours is much more realistic with inflation actuals. Sadly the 6% rule for $MNII is not enough!!!
The $48,587,847.82 claim principle through inflation would be today $390,892,541.01!!! Crazy to think the 6% claim certification is actually undercutting us lol
That's why this is trading where it is...it's in the OTC where 99% of companies are scams. And the sentiment is that of a 'scam'. But, this used to be on the NYSE before the confiscation. They eventually halted it 6 years after. I'm honestly not sure why this actively traded? But it does.
Yes Roy and I have been in contact with the head guy (there might be others too). I've been told shareholders will see a distribution from a phone conversation with him. Obviously we have to get a settlement and style our debts/fees first. But the end result should be in the dollars. Possibly hundreds!
Trust me, I thought this was too good to be true as well when I fist saw it. Only after ridiculous amounts of DD and conversations with Mr. Gutierrez did I finally buy in.
The choice is up to you and the risks are known. But this is no scam stock and the president running this is as good a guy as we can hope for. He knows many shareholders lost tons of $ when this company was confiscated, and he wants to do the right thing and payback what he can. If restitution is involved (which I doubt), that could make this more complex. Essentially you're buying in for a divvy/payout, or potentially owning shares in an asset holding company possibly worth $48mil - $200mil.
I hope this makes sense. And even with a full payout, we all know Uncle Sam is going to take his fair share. And there's no brainwashed people here. It's just educating those that have no concept of how this should play out. Again, this has never happened before in the history of public ally traded companies. All we can do is present the info and cross our fingers for the best at this point. Essentially you're buying a lotto ticket with a 85% chance of a decent payoff.
Do people even read my DD sticky?! LOL I have two articles showing that the stock was trading from $7-8.50 before it was taken over. With inflation, that equates to around $30-$35 at today's money value. Obviously the value of the assets far surpassed the PPS in this case. It's just interesting to see.
Hi Mrpenny,
Please read the stickied DD posts. They tell you all you need to know about $MNII and the situation. Nick Gutierrez just recently took over as majority shareholder and is running this entity currently. He's a very nice man and a lawyer hell-bent on restitution for all of the Cuban Americans that got screwed by Castro.
Quick facts - MNII is now Manati Industries inc. It used to be Manati Sugar Company before 1970.
Outstanding shares are 1,280,597.
The US Gov't created a program (Federal claims security commission FCSC) that certified claim amounts of American private owners of Cuban land/assets that were stolen. MNII is one of the top 13 claims monetarily. The certified claim amount is about $48.6 million! The claim also certifies a 6% simple interest per year. It's been 56 years (and going lol). So the claim now is really $211+ Million, with $48.6 mil of that being the principle.
So if we get 100% claim payment these shares would be worth $165 EACH! That's the potential here. Is it likely to see that? Probably not, but it's possible. I think the payment of just $48.6 mil for the principle assets would make us all happy! Whatever the payout is, there will be some old liabilities, taxes and lawyer fees taken. But at $0.15, this is a ridiculous steal.
So we are left with three big questions that are left to the US Congress...
1. What will they make Cuba pay? The full amount or less?
2. When will Cuba pay and how? Will it take years or be a lump sum?
3. What will the entity do with this money? For MNII, the thought is a distribution to all shareholders since there isn't any business or land left to run.
In terms of updating the OTC page, I really don't care if he does. Honestly, I hope he doesn't. This isn't a stock to flip. And that's really all updating the OTC page would be good for is the flippers of stock. Those doing solid DD here know what they own. I wouldn't mind if the price stays where it is up to the settlement announcement. That way I can load the boat, while others have no clue these exist :)
A few of us have been in contact with the main man and the DD here is solid. It's the 3 variables above that make this risky (not so much #3). There are tons of articles online about this subject written both ways. Just know that Cuba and the US are meeting tomorrow and Friday for round #2 of talks on settling this matter. So news could come as soon as this weekend (unlikely though).
There's nothing sketchy here, just a situation that has NEVER happened in the history of the world. An openly traded stock/company that was confiscated by another nation and kept alive in the stock world. I think most original stock owners have dumped their shares because they didn't think payment would ever happen. But it's on the OTC and many don't have a clue what this is or what they will get out of it. All the articles I've seen about corporation payouts focus ONLY on the Big Board stocks and there is never mention of Manati anywhere. Again, this is strange and most don't know about this one. Consider yourself lucky for finding it at $0.25.
Think of it this way, if Cuba pays us ONLY $.04 for every dollar they owe on the principle only ($48.6mil * .04)/1,280,597... You still get $1.51 per share! So really if Cuba pays literal anything, you should come out on top pretty good if you get anything under $1.
The other unknown here is timeline. Could happen soon and could be 10 years from now. I'm fine waiting for a full payout. I could retire then lol.
Take a look around. Many here have done awesome DD and now it's a wait and see.
GLTY
$$$MNII$$$
Raul Castro is out on Feb. 24, 2018. The Cuban gov't has already set that in place.
These two articles articulate the issue at hand pretty well...
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/563a4585e4b00d0211e8dd7e/t/579799ece4fcb5739444c8c4/1469553136309/2829July2016USCubaClaimsMeetingAnalysis.pdf
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/congress/article89373947.html
WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE??? THIS IS A HUGE WEEKEND!
I'm pretty sure Obama said he doesn't have the power to end the embargo. Only Congress can remove this. There are many in congress who strongly oppose removing it due to Castro (Raul) still suppressing the Cuban people with his tactics.
Sellers out! L2 shifting for big move...