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Definitely a buy. All the elements in place for this to be a $10 to $15 stock within 1 to 3 years.
However there is no "magic bullet" for this company considering current management and the Company's financial position. Getting the permit without conditions somehow I think eitehr wont happen this year, or if it does will not really change the fortunes of this company for investors.
All the projections which the company persists leaving on their website fact sheet wont be met, I think by now there is no one including the CFO who believes they will be met. Yet CFO appears incapable of realizing time to change how he does things.
Why do you never address the issues about this company ?
I am not at all convinced they will finish reclamation efforts this year, nor that this will result in getting all or part of bond or if they do new bond may be required.
Whiel I hve not examined the whole permit process in detail for this transaction or Colorado in general, the fewtsI revied did not impress me that the company really has the expertise and experience with Colorado regulators to know what to file the first time out. For example, a company filing for a NPDES permit with EPA generally will have an idea if a water treatment plant will end up being necessary, or dry stack for that matter- one gets experienced people who know process and regulators. And getting a baseline study is always one of first steps from day 1.
I can be wrong as I am only going by the impression of the documents I saw * there are a lot), but my impressions are that CFO either ignorant or misleading in his projects of when permit would be received, and that delays appear not me more on the back of the company not doing its homework.The more I look at this company the more weakenesses I see.
The capacity of the mill I have never understood- they state one figure, then that it can be expanded I can expand my garage too, does add to value that I could.Maybe picky but the $3 million reactivation is for what capacity mill ?
Doubt they will file bankruptcy absent motion by creditors to file an involuntary bankruptcy- there are no assets or cash flow to protect. But if CFO thinks it will protect him maybe, but a bankruptcy filing would be expensive for this company, and judge can invalidate transactions between officers and directors for the 12 months prior to the filing.
They announced sino-gold deal- didnt happen.
They indicated they bought a mortgage lead generation business, is it generating $1 in revenue ?
They announced entering HIP HOPbusiness/alliance- has there been $1 generated in over a year ?
They portray themselives in media/cable busienss, is it generating any revenue ?
There is a pattern here.
How do you judge he is doing a good job ?
-low stock price and low volume ( for some time)
-no revenue ( for several years)
-no profit
-no positive cash flow( in fact no cash flow)
-( in fact there every deal announced doesnt occur
-publishing non-GAAP financial statements as GAAP
By what criteria is he doing a good job ?How many more years will you keep posting he is doing a good job ?
He may have technical expertise in the cable area, perhaps he should focus on that and let someone else run the company.
The issue of the stock price involves the whole strategy of the company in terms of marketing , operations and finance- all of this would need to change to effect a long term future for this company.
Look at the prior posts on this website, people who persisted in believing non-sensical press releases, unrealistic deadlines and valuations, non-disclosure of key information, all these chickens come home to roost eventually. Biting the bullet and realizing things would have to be done differently is something which in my opinion is beyond the intellectual capacity of the CFO and his backers.
Thanks for the information.
Always helpful other members of the board contributing their information.
Thanks,I didnt know exactly whether a cash bond or not. But reclamation needs to occur and expenses incurred before that bond can be returned, and in any case judging from track record of this company hard to imagine shareholders would have any net benefit.Putting up the bond simply part of the story and business.
Understand your point but I have a feeling permitting agency will have their own path they will follow.
Actually posting the bond helped secure the story- i.e. why not post 1/2 million bond if one believes one can make much more on the market? ( also what type of bond- secured by CD, or bonding company).
Is it refundable, I doubt it (as costs going up all the time) but it is possible at some point in the future- and who do you think funds would go to anyway ?
The company brings this negative criticism on itself by the lack of transparency and their rather bizarre concept of disclosure. I go back to their not filing an 8k on March 6 as I posted before. I know everyone got sick of my posts on the subject but that was a prime indicator of the CFO's approach to disclosing material events in a timely manner,i.e. not doing so.
There are lots of questions to be sure on the relationships of Jo Grant, the company that arranged the convertibles, whoever decided on this inane and I believe miselading marketing strategy and implementation,but the CFO has put himself out front as the person driving this business. But many people on this board persisted in considering this a potential winner ( I started by giving the company benefit of the doubt as well) regardless of what was pointed out.
It would be hard to believe that the CFO has not made money out of all this, and considering the slipshod approach to disclosure,that the 144 filings may shed some light on all this.
I dont think anyone would hold a sub-penny stock accountable for lack of success, just the natue of the business. But this consistent series of press releases claiming $100 million plus in assets and keeping the fact sheet on their website dated April 2013 with projections I am sure CFO knows he hasnt a chance to meet shows once and for all CFO should not be in this positon with a ublic company.
Just my opinion of course, maybe CFO distrubed and believes all this.
Te issue here in my opinion is not how the mill be run, but will it ever run under current management.
Forgetting for the moment that BTDG has a track recod of not executing on its deals, the idea someone would pay to get BTDG a higher listing doesnt make sense.
It would be cheaper and faster to start new company and file registration statement than go back over years of non-GAAP prepared financials to get audited. Then there is the problem disclosing all the bizarre deals BTDG has announced.
So why on earth would any intelligent person put real money into BTDG for this purpose ? Look at the NASDAQ listing requirements, this company simply wouldnt qualify.
A core silver investment- pays 4%, long term trend for silver up, solid finances, the blue chip in the sector. Really dont care whether price is $10 or $15,this is a great long term play- with some dividends as well !
No problem, only reason I was so sure is Hecla is a company I follow and like. I think though the bigger issue- which will probably determine next results at CGFI - is whether people continue to believe their press releases.The basic story shouldnt be bad- control of a mill and some long term possibility with rising precious metal prices to eventually develop or find mill feed being developed. But flicking on a light switch to start production is not a believable story ! This is a highly technical and risky business,capital intensive and subject to extreme regulatory issues even for the best of mining companies. Nothing leads me to the opinion the CFO has the experience and skills to meet his outlandish projections.The reverse split is only a symptom of deeper problems at CGFI.
Looking at press releases, it makes one wonder if the company that had a role in aranging prior convertibles had more of a driving role in all of this than is perceived.
The second is held by CFO, an odd situation in my opinion combined with his owning the majority of the class B shares. I agree that Fearn would appear to have quite an involvement in all this though not sure how.If Fearn holds the first, CFO the second, not much value in any case for shareholders if they decide to pull out of the company.I say appear as unless I am mistaken we dont know precisely the degree of that involvement.
I still think the various 144 filings over the last 2 1/2 years would be very instructive to unravelling a bit more knowledge ( for curiosity at this point) of what has happened to a lot of shares.
Something odd is going on with the timing of this reverse, hopfully curiosity will be satisfied.
Hecla absolutely not producing in Colorado, even a cursory look at their filings and website shows this. Company also over the phone confirmed this.
Just out of curiosity what mine are you talking about ? I have looked at Hecla filings and website and do not see any operating mine in Colorado.I get the impression that some people still seem to believe that this mill can be operating this year.
You made what might be a very significant point- if they have issue shares for services to different contractors and employees within Colorado, there may be some regulatory issues. But shareholders have lost, no money or assets to recover.
The mill equipment will have some value but there is a first and second lien against the mill.
Well that "boilerplate" doesnt change common sense that:
1. No regular bank financing is possible for this company
2 Convertible debt has been main source of financing.
3.Straight equity financing without huge discounts is unlikely.
4 There is no immediate cash flow potential for this company
(2) and (3)indicate company to keep doors open has to consider current or future issuance of class A stock.
A bit cute to say they have no plans "written or otherwise". Does anyone believe on this board he has no plans to issue stock to raise money ?
First, I quite agree with concerns over the environment and increasing regulatory issues any mine in development will can incur permiting delays and added costs in particular in Colorado (though not as bad as California or Washington).Thus the impression that in the short term the nearby properties could supply mill feed is at best over-optimistic.The impression mill woudl be permitted quickly also at best over-optimistic, though one would have assumed CEO would have known this.
Second,I am not sure one can say of every property it would take "tens of millions of dollars to bring a commercial mine to production" though I would agree it is quite possible the properties CGFI mention would take over $5 million to prepare for regular production- drilling, restoring underground access, cost of equipment ( LHD equipment alone would be probably be $2 million at least- this is assuming trackless), rehabilitation of underground workings. This is assuming no shaft repair which can easily cost $1,000 a foot.
Third feasibility studies and preparatory work for such studies is all over the map time-wise, but your fundamental point I quite agree with that based on the limited information available it conceivably could take years before reserves established.
However ultimately whatever figure or time frame it is (a) we have limited information to go by (b) does management show a track record of stating objectives and meeting them (c) does company have capital structure and balance sheet to raise such capital. Even as a sheer speculation, it seems this company cannot meet its projections in any probable scenario at this point, and the only surprise is it took so long for some people to realize.
There have been numerous discussions on this board about NI3-101, common standards in the industry sector etc. The credibility of management suffers greatly when one considers laws, regulations, and industry practices. So right off the bat the company has deck stacked against them in the credibility department.
Then add dismal track record of meeting stated objectives.
Then the company could have disclosed all sorts of basic data to enable investors to better judge the probabilities of this ventue, data that normally most juniors would disclose for a "pre-production" project. Of course this sort of data not disclosed, with some peope saying " because CFO is holding cards close to vest".
Do we know all the exploration infromation on the Champion ? No. ( maybe Infomine might have some).Heck I dont even know whether they have underground access to areas they are claiming as a measured resource.
What we do know is that putting a value highlighted in a press release on gross metal in the ground is ridiculous on many levels- there isnt even an estimate of CAPEX and extraction costs deducted from this supposed "value".
I cant say they need tens of millions of dollars to process some material from nearby mines because simply we dont seem to have anything near even a ballpark estimate of anything-we have selected figures disclosed, like the famous "$9 million in orders", or "gross profit percentage" forecast. we do know generally this is a capital-intensive business, it can take years to develop a mine , and can be very difficult for all sorts of permits. Let alone metallurgical issues. And on the permits, I have not had the time nor ineterst to go through their permit applications- howver just glancing at them one day ( especially the criticism by regulators about lack of particular baseline studies) I do get the impression that perhaps permitting process wasnt handling as well as it could have been.
well with respect it seemed your point was where i got the $3 million number from-it was from the company.why not address that ? so next the issue is how would they raise and if they could what would that do to the share structure.
so let me see, i am supposed to drive out to silverton to visit a mill when the cfo wont answer calls or emails from shareholders. and what would be accomplished ? i admit i have little confidence in their projections to date ( are you of the opinion they meet their public objectives ?)but taking their estimate at face value means that CFO clearly put out projected start dates he could not meet.Or if he didnt know he couldnt meet, then his judgement poor. in any case not even clear where mill feed would come from.
Actually you have a good point, it wouldnt surprise me in the least if the OSC or BC securities commission forwarded these press releases to SEC or even put a cease trade order out especially if a Canadian stockholder contacted them.
Well, I have seen many old reports prepared by engineers and geologists in the "possible" reserve era and older filings that presented projects in a manner quite uncommn for today let alone some of the press releases from Vancouver in the 90's. Though I do agree the thrust of their type of "disclosure" has always been frowned upon.
I cant imagine this company would be high on the SEC priority list, but in my opinion SEC Engineering office would crawl all over this company in a heartbeat as a poster child of how exactly not to present a potential mining project.
Have you read their filings ? The $3 million estimate comes from the company !
Since CFO doesnt seem to return emails or phone calls how could one arrange a visit anyway ?
Eventually the SEC wil take notice if only when they come up for the regular review that reporting companies go through.
It is amazing how inexperienced CFO is and whoever around him participating in these inane press releases, and their SEC filings as well- quite apparent whomever preparing is inexperienced in this sector.They think the qualifiers in their 10k and 10q will cover them.
Wonder what CEO's stance is as someone with industry background- is he simply clueless about modern standards, or just desperate for money. Seems CFO is driving things but surely CEO saw draft of those releases. It wouldnt be first older geologist or engineer not to grasp modern standards or reporting, but according to what I have seen CEO has had some experience in Canada.
I admit I am very confused and trying to understand something- I keep hearing about underdeveloped assets, but all I see is a mill ( that has a first and second on it) with no indication of where the ore would come from in the short of even medium term to process there.Even the mill would take $3 million to reactivate which pretty clear company doesnt have.
Trashing management usually not too productive- but they obviously knew months ago that it would take a signficant amount of money to reactivate the mill, yet they persisted in forecasting a september re-opening.Stupidity or inexperience one can understand. One can understand putting things in the best light,and seeing the glass "half-full". But it does seem-at least to me- fairly clear now -the CFO in his heart knew their projecton wouldnt be met or had a good chance keen of being met.
This is precisely the problem, some investors see such press releases and dont even think to question. Forget technical and industry details- if the number was a believable number, even in today's market if they had a NPV of $135 million, they could attract some financing.
The other issue is we simply know only tidbits of informaton. I agree it is unlikely they have a current resource as defined though they may have a historical resource of some sort.Definitely based on information to date they have no reserves.
While many juniors use options, letters of intent , etc etc to control mineral properties this company seems particularly unable to close deals,meet objectives or timetables.
Who knows whether they can still find buyers, or some wacky financing letter of intent in the works.
I do think the achilles heel for these fellows will be either (a) the circumstances of the CFO getting the Class B shares and second on the mill (b) or these insane press releases- one of these days maybe in the normal review cycle the SEC engineering office will look at these press releases (c)or them losing definitively the court case they appealed.
These press releases in my opinion show CFO is in way over his head not to realize he cant keep putting out releases like this.At best the company will have a series of retractions and amended filings to do.
Has anyone looked at the 144 filings ?
Objectively it would seem CFO is making money somehow though it isnt readily apparent.No one would begrudge someone making a living, but on the other hand considering how they market this company, and the results, I can certainly see why questions would be asked.
If I had to guess, answer lies in the 144 filings, just I dont know how to access online, or how they interpet s8 filings in relation to form 3,4 and 5.
I think your guess is right-CFO thinks he has a new master plan.
i am curious touh it seems they could have gone on for another few months issuing conevertibles, especially with some investors beieving they would be operational in september.
maybe CFO believe some sort of wacky financing proposal will occur.
I have always been intrigued why CGFI would go private- if hard enough to raise capital as a public company, as a private one would be harder- and they would lose ability to (a) sell shares in the market (b) get convertible financing.
The mill is an asset but its value can only be realized with a combination of a permit, reactivation funds, and steady mill feed. This company doesn't have any of these conditions met.
Plus why would CFO take over existing liabilities ? He might together with first lien holder foreclose and then liquidate whatever value he could from the mill.
Something is up though in my opinion, the timing of this most recent reverse was prompted by something.
Insane press release.
First, continues charade that they have a NI43-101 report, including continuing to state a gross metal value absent CAPEX requirements or extraction costs.
Second,am I reading this right that Jo Grant doesnt own the land it is selling for $3 million anyway ? ( Would there be any related party issues concerning Jo Grant ? Were shares issued post or pre reverse split ?)
Third, so they need $3 million to reactivate the mill, say an estimated $300,000 to $400,000 to "run" the company, some amount to close these deals ( not even counting cost to develop and access ore for mill feed.Is there anyone on this board who believes based on the CFO's track record at this company that this even a remote possibility in 2013 ?
I quite agree, but the fascinating thing about this board- and maybe explains CFO's success at raising funds through the market all these years- is the probability of any particular course isnt the issue, but the possibility is ! We still hear about the mill re-opening when even the company says they need $3 million to re-activate.
Does anyone really by now believe mill will re-open this year ?
The company has stated they need $3 million to open the mill, and judging from the past quarters they need $400,000 a year to survive- and there is nothing to indicate with any probability there is ore for on-going operations at the mill.
So let me see if I understand this scenario, price drops to $.001, they raise $3.4 million at that price( do they have enough authorized shares ?), then this might be a buy ? (And regardless of the impression, one doesnt start up a mill overnight).
Am I missing something ?
I think perhaps if you re-read my post,and prior posts, that I highly doubt they have ore ready to process at the flick of a light switch.
I have always been curious how they could announce "orders" , with no details,and how these "orders" would stay pending for s long-can you imagine with gold at these prices people just sitting around ( though might not be economic to ship elswhere). If I had to guess CFO got some sort of exression of interest worded in such a way he felt he could justify calling "orders", knowing that some people buying the stock never seemed to question the assertions of this company.
As far as what is available from nearby mines I have not investigated that so I have no idea so can only make a guess, but I highly doubt they are stockpiling ore for the re-opening of the POW mill.
The problem is not two reverse splits which is bad enough but the way the CFO chooses to approach doing business- this has always been out there considering the type and manner of disclosures, or non-disclosure by this company.
Should be interesting watching post-reverse prices. I am waiting for press release from company announcing again how reverse split will benefit shareholders. Or that the $9 million in orders have been incerased to $12 million Or the best, how a bank has entered a letter of agreement to consider to extend a conventional working capital line secured by $200 million in mining properties ( of course not owned yet). Or maybe company changes name and enters silver clothing business. Anything is possible with this company of course.Or that CFO will go more undercover to keep things close to his vest as some would say.