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Nothing borderline about it. I would say it represents a new low, but there have been too many lows to count, most by the spokespeople for the company.
I like the post about the secret infringer list.
It's good that they are recycling the non-existent partners - I was concerned that the total lack of information / action / results / revenue from the company would force the boards to cease their existence - fortunately we can manufacture information better than the company can manufacture revenues.
LL
The middle is wishful thinking at best. At best.
LL
This is the modern day equivalent of a snipe hunt and the true believers are the first time campers.
We will never hear a word about a positive revenue-producing event from Munchie. We may never see another lawsuit filed on behalf the highly vaunted patents, and if we do we can be assured the only dollars will be nuisance dollars. EDIG is playing out the string.
LL
Wow. That was fast.
Tell you what. You answer the questions I posed and I'll be happy to answer yours. Fair? Even Steven and all that?
LL
Certainly would be interested in some of the plausible reasons you reference for the rise in PPS. That posited by Never fits very tightly with the history of EDIG and the timing of RP's departure. It was clear that he left because not a single "element" he had been referencing for the past year had come to pass. Rather than face the shareholders, and potential legal action, he took the only steps he could take to ensure some further income for himself and protection for the company.
New face, new carrots, continued loyalty from the true believers, and the game continues. They've been doing the same thing for over ten years. Do we need to list all the promised future occurrences which never took place? He provided cover for the company and enhance his own assets while avoiding having to answer some ugly questions. Since those who might ask the questions have no interest in attending shareholder meetings and are banned from boards which allow them to pose questions to the true believers, Falk and crew are never held accountable.
Let me ask you a few questions:
If the re-exam goes EDIG's way what will happen? Will they sue the remaining 150 or so "targets" out there on a weakened, more narrow patent and get more nuisance settlements?
How many companies do you know that set up a "division" for a new growth area that include 4 employees in said division, produce no growth and no products for a year, and are rewarded for it with a higher PPS?
Tell me Munchie's value proposition and the differentiators in the marketplace between it and other platforms or apps which do what it claims to do? How many partners or OEMs do you think will be using it in the next year?
There are no good answers to these questions - there is no future in anything we know about EDIG.
LL
All is back to normal - no vol, no PPS movement.
LL
Unfortunately, the "rise" appears to be short lived.
LL
That's because EDIG's business is selling stock, not products and services.
When I pointed out the fact that Thales was going to surpass and take over from EDIG in the IFE market on another board I received a tongue-lashing from another poster about what a terrible company Thales was.
LL
Now $15k of trades. Might have to turn on Marketcaster.
LL
As Thom Yorke says in The Bends (with some nice guitar by ? Johnny Greenwood ?) - "Where do we go from here . . . I wish, I wish, I wish that something would happen." But I don't see any basis for anything happening.
LL
I have to say I am shocked that the PPS has gone to 5 cents plus today. Still only about $7k worth of shares traded so I don't see it as significant unless that figre adds a couple of zeros. Still, someone is obviously spending a few pennies on our penny stock.
I can't see the re-exam potential as being significant enough to raise the PPS and unless I am a complete idiot Munchie is not a viable revenue producer - hopefully I am a complete idiot.
LL
I don't think that guy is buying any stock - today there were $12k of shares traded. When there are days of $500k (not that it will ever happen) I'll be paying attention. Hard to believe anyone could get excited about a stock going from 3 cents to 4 1/2 cents with $12k traded.
LL
It is rather astonishing that they can introduce a supposed entirely new "division", a supposed entirely new product/application, claim to be in discussions with potential partners, etc., and then just go completely dark about it all, for MONTHS and MONTHS.
But they "remain" optimistic. And since the true believers are now counting off days til the re-exam is over (75?) I guess they have another 2 1/2 months before they have to say anything else.
LL
I think we will hear less and less about all things EDIG, particularly if they are unsuccessful in the re-exam. This is their last gasp IMO.
LL
I was thinking about my comments that DM has driven the PPS down - in a sense that is really true. By failing to ever get a victory for our highly vaunted patents they have, in essence, pulled back the curtain and exposed the truth. They have played Toto to our Wizard.
As long as people actually thought the patents were worth something there was some expectation of future success which translated into a higher PPS. When it became apparent that was not the case, culminating with the unfavorable Markman ruling which DM achieved, the expectation of future success evaporated and, along with that, the share price.
LL
I guess this could goon forever with your posts not quite being responsive to the original issues you raised and to which I spoke, i.e., DM is not ranked in the way you say they are.
We have indeed found out as the PPS indicates.
If they are not our attorneys in re the USPTO matter and the attorneys don't do the job for us then I would say that removes the last vestiges of hope for EDIG, as we will never hear of Munchie again - all in my opinion of course.
I guess we could go back and forth and skirt the issue dozens of more times, but there is no need to. One of us is looking for something to hold on to, the other says there IS nothing to hold on to.
,03 . That tells the story as far as I am concerned of DM's and Fred's efforts.
LL
a. I have assumed absolutely nothing. This is an area in which I know of what I speak.
b.If you can find a ranking of DM in the Patent Infringement Litigation area I'd love to see it. Or examples of big victories in this area - I suspect if there were others than the Cisco matter they'd have them on their web page. We know they didn't do so well in the Markman case. They were certainly not so ranked when I last checked.
3. As for - we will find out shortly. I think we have already found out. If something changes I'm all ears.
4. Hopefully they are indeed the attorneys on the USPTO matter, an area where they are highly thought of (again, prosecution vs. Litigation).
LL
I'm either doing a really bad job of writing or someone is having a hard time reading.
I'm trying to focus on INFRINGEMENT IP LITIGATION - not just PATENT Litigation. There are a number of types of litigation which fit under the umbrella of Patent Litigation.
If you carefully parse the language used, recognized for HANDLING patents, copyrights, trademarks usually means the administrative part of filing, USPTO, etc. Related IP litigation most likely is directed to that. And most of their Patent Litigation is doubtless concerning those areas and validity. Being evaluated as a top tier patent firm relates to the patent prosecution work they do - if you find something that contradicts that specific rating please let us know. But if you want to read it differently and it gives investors warm and fuzzes, so be it.
I sit in law firms all over the country that actually ARE top rated in these areas. I rarely hear Duane Morris mentioned, though they have spent a lot of money and energy promoting themselves and building that very lucrative area of practice.
And finally, ever since DM took on the case, the PPS has plummeted. Every time they get a settlement, the PPS plummets. They are doing a great job for themselves and for Fred. Based on your information we should go buy Cisco stock. I know that this will not change the minds of anyone, no more than the PPS being at .03 after being at over $20 changes the minds about our "great little company." And if you want to keep on believing that DM is the greatest thing in Infringement Litigation since sliced bread, have at it. I know what their reputation is and I'm more interested in what happened to my money since they went on the case. In my mind this entire conversation is meaningless - their record speaks for itself. Vis a vis EDIG they are crap.
My last post on this as I can only say the same stuff so many ways.
LL
Coyote,
I am really flattered that you pay so much attention to what I post and feel compelled to rebut every comment I make. I guess I wasn't clear enough in my description of what Duane Morris is recognized for and where they are NOT in the top tier of US law firms. The information you posted below doubtless came directly from DM's website, where they are allowed to position any rankings or recognition however they choose within certain confines.
They obviously did a good job for Cisco in whatever that matter was, and Cisco accorded them recognition in result. I don't see any comments from DM about what a great job they have done for EDIG.
Let's be clear about the rankings - DM is indeed a well respected law firm and have topped the rankings in several areas over the years. Their size alone accounts for much of that. And they have received some recognition for their litigation work, some of that in the patent arena. The term "leading" is nebulous - of the thousands of law firms in the US, I would guess being in the top 100 could be considered "leading." Let's remember that there are several different kinds of patent "litigation." DM is primarily known for their patent application (or prosecution) work and for litigation around validity. I have never seen a single ranking (and I've looked at all the ones you mention - though not in the last year or so) that ever ranked DM as a top tier firm in the area of patent infringement litigation. IP litigation encompasses validity, infringement, and other areas. The language used on their web site and written by Duane Morris leaves open the question of exactly what their specific rankings are. If you want to believe that they are a top infringement litigation firm and have been so ranked based upon the non-specific language written by DM then that is your right.
When Fred, RP and Will visited law firms to try to get someone to take this on contingency they visited many others as priorities, including Townsend and Townsend, Fish and Richardson, Mintz Levin, Paul Hastings, Wilson Sonsini, etc. They got the best deal in terms of contingency with DM - it may have been the only deal they got. Inlaw, there is a phrase "res ipsa loquitur" - the thing speaks for itself. If DM is a great infringement litigation firm and did their DD on EDIG, then it is hard to reconcile that with NO judgments, nuisance value settlements, and a lost marksman hearing. That's hardly top tier.
If shareholders want to believe that having DM take our case on contingency is a great thing and bodes well for the stock (as I used to believe and posted about as the greatest positive in the company's history) then good luck to them. It's akin to believing that a positive re-esam is going to open the monetary floodgates and raise the PPS. It's a fantasy.
By the way, if you find a ranking that puts DM at the top of the heap in patent infringement litigation I'd love to see it. Being a "leading " firm in patent litigation does not mean that. And being a national Tier 1 firm is great - their commercial and financial expertise and their high rankings in other areas are what got them that ranking. Great for them - great for any shareholders of companies in those areas.
The results speak for themselves. When DM does something other than line their and Fred's pockets I'll be happy to have them as EDIG counsel of record.
LL
Turbo,
There ARE no positives, only wildly improbable hopes based on little factual foundation. When you have posters talking about keeping the lights on as a positive, you know you are in trouble.
LL
They may be highly ranked in patent prosecution (or applications) but are NOT highly ranked, except on their own website, in patent litigation.
LL
Interesting how this thing about "it's a penny stock with a lot of risk" became the mantra of the true believers AFTER it was touted as a Nasdaq stock, AFTER it went to the 20s, AFTER we were supposedly a company with billion dollar OEMs and volume sales of products to identified customers, and only AFTER it finally sank WELL below a dollar and now sits closer to zero than to a dime.
Now, "it's a penny stock, and, after all, you know the risk of penny stocks."
When I first bought it the stock was about $1.50 and going up. It was no penny stock then, nor did I "expect" it would be.
LL
You really restrained yourself. Comparing the success of your business to that of EDIG is like comparing a lexus to a yugo. There are many here and on other EDIG boards who have run businesses successfully, and without lying to their investors along the way.
And, as we know, it's one thing for a business to misrepresent once or twice, but to do it dozens of times, or should I say every time a statement or report is released, well, that's a horse of a different color.
LL
Turbo
You are kidding, right? Does no one understand that EDIG has NOTHING going for it. Coyote seems to think that the company has been in worse shape before, and it's a good thing that it is not now. (Besides the fact that he is wrong - this is the worst it has ever been for edig - no products, no prospects other than more nuisance suits which benefit only DM and Falk - there is NOTHING that the company will be able to do to convince investors to buy stock in quantities and at prices that will positively impact the PPS.
"Good News" is not going to do it. The market has been listening to EDIG's "Good News" for over 12 years. Why do you think Putnam is gone? So he could sell his shares ASAP without having to file.
What is it you think is going to happen that will propel EDIG into the stratosphere - or even past .20? Winning the re-exam? That just benefits DM, not us.
And this guy Ulysses? Go to Raging Bull and look him up - read about 5 or 6 of the hundreds of posts he has made and then tell us what you think.
No disprespect, but it's time for shareholders to open their eyes. It's way past the time where the fact that "the lights are still on" is a positive.
LL
Bib day today for EDIG. $250 of shares traded. I think that is a record low. Must be all the market excitement about Munchie, that real, tangible, physically-demonstrated, partner-attracting, non-vaporware, software/platform, potentially trademarkable thing that EDIG has going for it.
LL
Mr Ulysses,
You say "As coyoyte1 wrote this is a platform and not software so should be hugh for this company."
I agree that Munchie will be hugh for EDIG. Well said.
LL
I think it is obvious to all openminded EDIG persons that we will never see or hear of Nunchi or anyone adopting or using it - except for proclamations issued by management. Whether one wishes to term this "factual", "opinion" "vaporware" or whatever - nothing changes the fact that it either does not exist, does not exist in the form in which it has been described, or is not being adopted or, most likely, taken seriously by anyone to whom it is pitched.
As to its "demonstration" for the shareholders, my response is when we see an actual company that sells products demonstrating it or something that uses it, please let me know.
As usual, whatever board we are on or whatever time frame we are in there are those who attempt to discern real information about the vast chasm between what EDIG says and what EDIG does, and there are those who focus on the personalities of the posters or the nuances of their posts. The messages and the messengers. Same story for more than 10 years. It won't change until the company finally runs out of carrots. At that point either the EDIG boards will cease to exist or company proponents will start an EDIG Revival board (on which negative commentary will not be allowed.)
And for what it's worth, I thought that this board did not allow sarcasm directed at other posters. I had a post removed for merely making a reference to another poster. That's one reason this board continues to be worth reading - let's hope we will not be inundated with lengthy, poorly written diatribes which have an agenda of criticizing other posters.
LL
LL
Not only is the "product" vaporware, the NAME is vaporware. Just like the volume sales to healthcare and the billion dollar OEM and all the other "expectations" EDIG has made known to shareholders were vapor.
And to Coyote's points - a) I said it was "definitely" vaporware and b) the game changed a long time ago - for the worse.
LL
What happened to MH's post? We can have ROFLMAO in #21 but not LQTMS in #22?
LL
Oh, it's definitely vaporware - the funny thing is that they couldn't even articulate strong features and benefits to the shareholders. I kept thinking, "what's the big differentiator in the marketplace here?"
So maybe they will have to change the name to Munchie after all - you know, Munchie, as in eating up the competition. But as someone said, if the re-exam goes through this will go the way of dozens of other "great" products and services that EDIG has brought to us and had "great" meetings with potential partners about.
LL
About $500 in trades today? This is a publicly traded stock? Withe millions of shares and thousands of investors? Yet many people carry that much cash in their wallets.
In Japan, the commander of such a foundering vessel would have the decency to at least resign, if not commit suicide. Our captain continues to navigate fearlessly into the future, even though the seas are heavy, the headwinds strong, and the engine has no fuel.
And not a word about all the "great" developments which will bring about the turnaround in our fortunes. Nor even an apology for such abject failure.
LL
Dan.
Don't you know it is illegal to bug telephone conversations without permission from at least one of the participants? At least you were lucky enough to catch one of the more compelling pitches Fred has delivered.
LL
I don't think getting rid of shares at .03 is very hard. I sold 200k at around .04 quite quickly - and that pales in comparison to Polis's dump.
One would think that there is a conflict of interest when a member of the family that has sold this many shares and impacted the PPS so greatly sits on the board of the company. If he had any self-respect he would resign.
And the delusional commentary from Fred and the "positive posters", when weighed against the reality of facts like the above, is frightening. Do people live their lives making decisions based upon "facts" like this? Oh wait, I did the same thing! Better late than never. At least my stockbroker no longer makes fun of me - as much - he just reminds me that I can sell the rest as well.
LL
It's "patently" obvious that none of this is good news for shareholders. One does not sell a stock at considerably less than one paid for it (particularly in these volumes) if one thinks that there is upside. Combine that with the anemic returns on litigation and sales, the absurdity of the Munchie "announcements", and the PPS having dwindled steadily to 3 cents and remained there, and what do the company prospects look like? Not much.
Fred's only hope is that EDIG passes the re-exam and DM is provided with enough ammunition to continue seeking nuisance settlements benefitting both DM and Fred, but not us.
As to the excuse that Polis is selling because the market in Phoenix (or wherever) is bad, how much did he receive from selling? $30,000 per million shares? I think that is chicken feed for the Polis group. And if they needed the money that badly I'm sure there are a number of people on this board that would have been happy to loan it to them (at appropriate interest) so that they could have kept their EDIG shares.
Last, their good buddy EQNX, or whatever his name is, from the other board, the guy who flew to the last shareholders meeting with them on their private jet, has had ZERO to say about anything in many months, so I'm sure he has sold his shares as well.
I, for one, cannot conceive of any way to assemble the known facts that looks good for EDIG.
LL
That's because they use PRs to keep investors on the hook. And you can substitute the name of any product or technology they have allegedly developed for Munchie in that PR and odds are they have released wording to that effect, emails to that effect or had phone calls to that effect in the past.
I know everyone here has seen statements from EDIG about meetings at CES with potential partners around Odyssey, Digeplayer, EVU, etc. How did those work out? Oh, wait, we had a billion dollar OEM, right? What happened there?
EDIG operates unlike alll other conmpanies and evidently feel they are entitled to do so. They do everything BUT sell and create revenue. And that's why its in a PR and not the filing. Because there is nothing of significance to report. Essentially they are saying "We had some meetings." They don't say who they met with, what happened, next steps, prospects, orders, or anything of substance - which is appropriate.
LL
Munchie is a joke just like everything else EDIG does. At least Fred had the courage to state that if the re-exam went poorly it would negatively impact their litigation strategy.
LL
Cassandra,
I think you are correct about the time passed since the Nasdaq farce. And I doubt that we could ever gain the critical mass to accomplish anythin with a vote - though I also suspect that with Polis haveing sold shares and Putnam undoubtedly having done the same, that there is less of a stranglehold on the company by the insiders. I am no expert in this area.
However, in terms of a general fiduciary duty of transparency and honesty to the shareholders, it seems to me that EDIG has engaged in an ongoing effort to obfuscate and deceive with regard to expectations and future performance. It's one thing to be wrong half the time, another to be wrong ALL the time.
In my opinion they have engaged in an ongoing scheme of deception, misinformation and dishonesty. I can prove, with innumerable documents which I have (such as the RFP to a major hospital along with a series of emails), and with corroborated statements and witnesses, that quarterly reports contained complete fabrications and distortions. If Will were subpoenaed he would tell tales that would curl your hair.
I've never followed through because of the faint hope that there might be one last bounce to enable some of those who have been hurt the worst to recover some small portion of their losses. Tht's why Parker and I put Fred and the rest into the opportunities we did initially - we thought we could make a difference and help what was, at the time, a pretty good community of hopeful investors.
But as the end draws nigh I've been giving more and more thought to it - I get more and more disgusted with each quarterly report. If Fred had any dignity he would just tell the shareholders the truth, apologize to everyone for not succeeding in any way, and either resign and/or close shop. But I don't think he's that type of guy.
Nonetheless, their ongoing charade may be actionable. I've had some initial conversations and plan to have more. I'm surprised that Mark didn't get farther with the SEC after the Nasdaq "effort" - there was no conceivable way they could have gotten listed and if they sincerely "believed" they were elegible then that should have been grounds for replacement on the spot - on the basis of corporate ignorance.
LL
Come on! Duane Morris is making easy money on nuisance settlements. Many cases that pay law firms 6 figures on contingency cost a TON of money in discovery. DM is not having to deal with a lot of expense, they are cookie cutter suits, and they take the money and run. The rest goes to paying Fred's salary.
And EDIG is paying the re-exam lawyers out of necessity - if they dropped that, what would they have? Munchie?
If they somehow get through re-exam they get to re-tool with DM and file new rounds of useless lawsuits which will generate nuisance payments. Same song, 42nd verse. A "Pop" would be about 10 cents at best. The company generates NO revenue of any kind worth mentioning.
They, and we, are done. It's just that no one will admit it.
LL
The one you REALLY want to sit down with is Will Blakely. He's the one who said (before he was asked to leave) that he was "flabbergasted" at the failure of management to follow through on a major hospital opportunity. He also asked me if I thought they should issue a revised quarterly report when they included language about multiple successful healthcare trials and "volume" sales into healthcare. (Of course, that was after I got in his face about it.)
LL
This was oine of the first things that caused me concern about the sophistication of the edig management. I chalked it up to inexperience rather than dishonesty. I was wrong. This was also what led me to my first posting experience. I must have posted 100 times that they were not elegible under any view of the circumstances.
I can't recall all the areas, but they certainly did not meet the $5 / 30 day requirement at the time they filed. There are also requirements as to corporate revenue for 2 of the previous three years, number of shareholders, value of the stock, etc. EDIG failed the test in at least three areas no matter how you looked at it - they weren't even close. Having recently sold shares from a BPO company that had been through the process while I was an officer I had a least a modicum of experience with the process.
So when EDIG said they "believed" they were elegible I just thought they were mistaken - little did I know that it was the first of many, many times they would use the term "believe" to mask the dishonesty they fed to shareholders about the many misadventures they would inflict on us over the years.
And Mark was not the only one who contacted the SEC - I know others who did the same. It's clear in retrospect that they were trying to keep the shares as high as possible while they were selling. They were probably just as shocked as everyone else when the PPS soared based on pictures and quotes from Bill Gates and Jenna Jameson and whoever. That was back in the days where PRs were considered as valuable as actual revenue. People were criticizing Warren Buffett for not leaping into the bubble market and he kept saying he would invest unless he thought a company produced value for the shareholders. I wonder who was right? Certainly not us.
Long story short, it was one of the big wake-up calls for me about what companies can get away with, but, alas, not a big enough wake up call for me not to be swept along with the tide of koolaid that fueled EDIG for years to come. They were NEVER elegible for Nasdaq. NEVER.
LL