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Ok, fair point. And that we give them a lot of money - although it's a little unclear how much of it is mandated to be spent on American made items.
I understand what you're saying and not arguing with you about it. It does seem though, that this has been the only pre-emptive action against potential speakers at this law school.
They didn't wait until a pro-Zionist speaker was scheduled, I don't think, they went on record ahead of time stating that none should be invited.
We've got to assume there was a reason for that, I'm just not understanding it. In a world full of state sponsored terrorism, why has anti-Zionism become all the rage on college campuses?
Again, I'm not defending Israel's misdeeds, and there have been many. I'm just trying to get at the source for the singular focus on them.
Roger that. Although, it's interesting that Israel, and only Israel, is treated in this fashion.
Why have smart law school students, regardless of the administration's position, come to feel that Israel's oppression of the Palestinians (which I'm not arguing with) is worse than the oppression of groups in the other countries I cited?
What am I missing? If the law students decided to condemn speakers from all countries that treat minority populations poorly, that's fine by me, but this strikes me as peculiar, I just don't understand the singular focus on Israel.
And some might argue that listening to the ideas of people you don't agree with is an important part of an education. Would they allow any of these guys to speak?:
https://www.thejc.com/news/news/meet-the-arab-zionists-a-new-generation-of-online-pioneers-5b63osaAHhUP9zlIFZi3XM
"Now, in a growing trend, pioneering Arab Zionists and pro-Israel influencers — who once would have been labelled traitors — are promoting Israel to their hundreds and thousands of followers."
A recent occurrence, story dated from last week:
https://brandeiscenter.com/several-berkeley-law-student-groups-adopt-no-zionist-speakers-rule-j-weekly/
I haven't had much time lately, so if anyone can provide any link to similar activities barring Chinese speakers or speakers from Myanmar or Saudi Arabia, or Syria, or Russia or Nicaragua or Iran, I'd appreciate it.
It's great, though, that we can isolate the single most egregious source of oppression in the world and work to end it!
The point is you seemed almost gleeful about the situation in which families are kidnapped and brought to a place, specifically because that place is unprepared to take care of them. What great fun!
The Feds would definitely have worked with DeSantis about the Texas immigration problem - although why he got involved there remains a mystery - but DeSantis thinks it's cool to score political points through cruelty to the less fortunate.
You on board with that? If so, you shouldn't need me to call you a shit head, just have a look in the mirror. Hey, if you're not busy this afternoon, I hear it's a real blast to go and find some little dogs to kick.
Do you actually read the post you respond to?
https://help.unhcr.org/usa/applying-for-asylum/what-is-asylum/
Asylum seekers are not here illegally. That's the law.
Nor do the immigrants from the border make up the most of the people here illegally
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/04/real-immigration-crisis-people-overstaying-their-visas/587485/
You care about laws so much how about those concerning the handling of top secret and classified documents?
https://www.factcheck.org/2022/02/former-presidents-are-not-allowed-to-take-home-official-records/
Not so much those laws, huh? Guess you like to pick and choose what laws to follow.
Immigrants are one of our greatest resources. We literally can't get enough of them.
My father, the child of immigrants (one legal, one not so much) grew up virtually penniless in the Bronx, in NYC. Because of cheap subway fare (mass transit) and almost free City College (socialism), he got educated and ended his career in the managing class.
Yes, the government spent money on him up front, but he paid it back many times over by being in a higher tax bracket and serving in WWII. It takes money to make money.
DeSantis spent all that money on a prank instead of using it to fortify his state against an oncoming and predicted storm.
Do you know anything about the law governing asylum seekers? I didn't think so.
Your post speaks for itself. My dog has more empathy and brains than you and that's the truth.
You're all about white grievance. You think you've been left behind in today's economy because of the brown people and the favoritism being shown them.
The real reason you've been left behind is that you didn't bother getting an education and you have a lousy work ethic. But blame it on the people seeking asylum, sure, your failures are their fault, not self imposed.
You do have excellent skills in picking on the helpless, those desperately in need, though. You should maybe look into doing that professionally instead of it just being your hobby.
Jeezus you're dumb. They can't be sent back to Venezuela and other countries we don't have diplomatic relations with. Plus, we're not heartless bastards like you people. We help the poor and dispossessed and downtrodden, like what's his name said to, oh, yeah, Jesus. Bet you're a good Christian, though, right?
For fuck's sake, these people were fleeing murderous gangs in their homelands. Homelands, by the way that America robbed of natural resources (maybe read something once in a while) and in which we overthrew governments. It's hard to believe that your parents aren't ashamed of you, that they taught you no better., that you're oblivious to the teachings of whatever religion in which you were raised. I'd rather have the random illegal here and have you shipped off to Honduras or wherever.
No one gets more free money in America than agricultural conglomerates, defense contractors, fossil fuel companies, crooked banks, and Trump family members. Maybe go pick on some of them, instead of proudly exhibiting what a punk ass you are.
Your ignorance is profound.
You can't send them home brainiac. Most of them are Venezuelans and we don't have diplomatic relations with Venezuela.
If you're enjoying this, you must love a good genocide or two.
You are the definition of a sociopath, someone lacking empathy.
You're proud in causing disruptions in public school systems?
Shit, I'm proud we took those kids and are trying to care for them. Fuck you and the rest of you who think it's cool to kidnap families and leave them on their own.
Shoulda made DeSantis take all of our jailed felons in return for Ian aid. Fuck him and you too. Heartless shitheads who enjoy the suffering of others.
"Ron DeSantis: A Three Act Play"
Act 1 - as a young Tea Party Congressman, Rep. DeSantis votes against aid for the victims of Superstorm Sandy, to show a commitment to fiscal responsibility
https://truthout.org/articles/desantis-accepts-fed-help-for-florida-but-in-2013-tried-to-block-aid-elsewhere/
Act 2 - as the Governor of Florida, DeSantis tries to embarrass President Biden and VP Harris by flying immigrants from Texas to Martha's Vineyard and Harris' residence, in protest of Biden's border policies. It's rumored that he was also planning to have another planeload of immigrants land near Biden's home in Delaware. DeSantis proclaimed willingness to spend $12M on such flights:
https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/regional/florida/desantis-migrant-flights-cost-vertol-systems-company/67-1d00e6d7-27e7-4fd5-b415-465fd70a1cf8
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/migrant-crisis-live-desantis-congratulates-120842603.html
Act 3 - Governor DeSantis asks for and receives federal aid from President Biden in the aftermath of Hurricane Ian.
It was widely reported that the working title for this play was originally, "The Shameless Hypocrite", but that proposal was dropped as being so obvious as to insult viewers' intelligence.
This is a much better length for me, thanks!
No, not that, your bit about my "preconceptions clouding my judgement" or some such.
And something similar a previous time.
No biggie, it's all good, keep up the generally excellent moderating work.
Clearly Biden's fault. If only Dear Leader were still in power he would make these problems go away.
Probably we just need to impose tariffs on some more countries and cut the corporate tax rate some more.
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/trumps-corporate-tax-cut-not-trickling/
Exactly, but that's the Republican playbook. Culture wars, tear down the Dems attempts to accomplish anything, and seek power for the sake of having power.
The next time I hear an illustrious Republican candidate for office, say Herschel Walker or Kari Lake, offer solutions to real problems we face, it will be the first time.
It's the darn immigrants and CRT and teaching elementary school kids to become trans.
Methinks, I'm not interested in your continuing to throw your amateur psychoanalysis of me into your responses to my comments.
Otherwise, no, I can't read all the links you post, frankly, it's a bit overwhelming, I don't have the time. Although, I'm sure I'm missing out on a lot, it's also true that brevity is the soul of wit.
I'll concede any point to you - at home I'm wrong all the time, so what's a few more times, and anyway, our lives will continue apace whether we agree or don't.
You see, this is a poorly thought out response. Biden won the popular vote, Trump did not (either time), so you can't put the same template on both.
Clarence Thomas is held in high regard by virtue of his occupying an unelected lifetime seat on the supposedly neutral Supreme Court. The fact that he's disgraced himself over the course of some decades and retains his seat is a sad commentary on the American system. Ginni Thomas is a person in need of a mental health intervention (another one).
Biden earns your reprobation, as far as I can tell, for reasons you can neither explain clearly or defend. I guess you have a problem with fundamentally decent people trying to govern.When asked to defend your Biden snark, you consistently pass and go on to the next subject.
Getting back to your problem with the way he's handled the economy, for example, what exactly is it? Oh, inflation and high gas prices. Two things his policies have no impact on. What do you think about the way he's broken with Obama and Trump on the neoliberal doctrines and why do you not like it?
Trump's economic policies, other than the tariffs that drove up prices and his inexplicable tax breaks for the rich and corporations, were fairly textbook and basically the same as Obama's, although executed much more poorly. These facts must burn your ass:
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/10/trumps-final-numbers/
Not to worry, though, either DeSantis or Youngkin will be much worse.
Well, that's true, I mean if I call you by a racist epithet or kick you out of my store because I don't like your ethnicity, that's hardly apartheid.
But what if it's state sponsored?
Sorry, I was distracted during my earlier answer and ran out of editing time.
Yes, Jim Crow was apartheid, you can make narrow arguments that it still exists here in some areas. The percentage of black people incarcerated vs white, the length of sentences for the same crime, the difficulty black farmers have getting business loans, the disparate real estate values of black vs white owned homes:
"Homes in Black neighborhoods are valued at 23 percent less, on average, than those in comparable White neighborhoods — despite having similar neighborhood and property characteristics and amenities, according to a Brookings Institution report." Mar 23, 2022
https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/race-determines-home-values-more-today-it-did-1980
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/historically-denied-pivotal-loans-black-farmers-still-struggle-to-get-support
Not to mention pubic school quality, college and career opportunities, and, obviously, the frequent mistreatment of black people by police.
I guess I meant it more as a question than a statement, so, let me try again, is oppression or discrimination based on race or ethnicity always apartheid?
Ginni Thomas and her husband are people without honor or grace.
Clarence obviously perjured himself during his hearing for the Supreme Court.
And Ginni is quite the piece of work! She had to be deprogrammed from a cult in the 1980's:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/ginni-thomas-cult-trump-supreme-court-b2102194.html
And at about that same time, as a young lawyer, she was, "fighting against policies like maternity leave and comparable worth"
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/28/opinion/ginni-thomas-election.html
"In her book, McEwen portrayed (Clarence) Thomas as a binge drinking porn addict. She claimed Thomas and her engaged in threesomes, sometimes involving his female colleagues, the New York Post reported in 2016."
https://marketrealist.com/p/what-happened-to-clarence-thomas-first-wife/
The fact that this couple has achieved such high standing in the American political hierarchy speaks as poorly about our fellow Americans as it does about them.
Yes, I agree. My point was that America wasn't held in worldwide contempt for it.
Situational ethics at its finest.
Sorry, but Jews are a race. If you do 23 and Me, for example, and you're Jewish the DNA results will come back, as mine did, stating something like I'm 98% Ashkenazi.
How do you account for this otherwise? Would your results come back stating you're 98% Catholic or Buddhist or Hindu?
Not interested in what one random judge ruled, judges make uninformed pronouncements regularly.
There might be a paywall and it's too long to post here as a pdf.
Yup, put me in the D column for predicting a win for Governor in FL. DeSantis has jumped the shark.
Whatever appeal he had for the MAGA and Villages crowd has become overshadowed, dissipated, by the growing perception of his nastiness and governing incompetence.
Heading into prime climate change hurricane season, let's show our fiscal management skills by spending a lot of money on showboating on the immigration issue.
No, no, a thousand times no, every critic of Israel is not antisemitic. Some are, though, and use anti-Zionism as a shield to hide their anti-Semitism behind. Many just have a problem with Israel's policies like they would with any one of a number of other countries.
"To your 2nd bit, do you really see that injustices in other countries must be introduced in every discussion about racial injustice in the USA?"
No, but it also depends on who's having the discussion, too. Just within the US, for example, a bunch of MAGA rednecks would probably have different opinions about racial injustice here than would a bunch of subscribers to the Metropolitan Opera. Here's an interesting bit:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-racist-countries
The Racial Equality list isn't surprising, and surely you'll notice Israel just barely ahead of (behind) the US. However, interesting also to note, #8 on the Most Racist Country list.
Do these lists have any credibility? Who freakin' knows.
Oppression based on race or ethnicity does not always automatically equal apartheid. Was the Jim Crow era in America apartheid? Just as the casual use of the word, "Nazi", lessens the impact of the actual genocidal German Nazis, so does the wanton use of the word "apartheid" lessen the impact of actual apartheid. Words have meanings and consequences.
And now, from not the far left:
"In our nation’s 246-year history, there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic than Donald Trump."
—Dick Cheney, August 4, 2022
But wait, you sure violent and criminal immigrants from Central and South America aren't pouring into Florida because there's no wall?
He went to Texas to find Immigrants to fly to MA. Was there nothing better for him to spend his time and money on than a non-issue? One that doesn't affect Florida at all? Even blind people could see through that stunt.
There was some joke going around before the hurricane hit land, that people should have gone to DeSantis and claimed they are illegal immigrants in order to get a free plane trip to the Vineyard.
Mine too.
He's up by 5.5%, which is within the margin of error, and is pissing off voters in record numbers
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/governor/2022/florida/
He's busy pissing off women (abortion rights), black people (his KKK hire), teachers (quitting in droves), and there's still 2 months to go. Not to mention "the gays"
https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/human-rights-campaign-on-desantiss-dont-say-gay-or-trans-law-going-into-effect-targeting-lgbtq-youth-and-turning-back-the-clock-on-equality
Do you think that replacing experienced teachers with military veterans who lack college degrees is going to please most parents of school age children?
After squandering money on his Martha's Vineyard stunt and pledging $12M for more stunts, he's going to come running to the Feds for a storm bailout.
He's either the dumbest smart person around or the smartest dumb person around.
Yeah, I wonder if DeSantis thinks maybe that money spent on his political stunt with the immigrants might be better spent. And after the first flight to Martha's Vineyard, he promised to spend an additional $12M on more stunts.
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-ne-desantis-more-migrant-flights-20220916-mwsxi745tjby7h4a4otewhb6ge-story.html
Plus he appointed a guy who thought it was fun to dress up in his robes for a photo:
https://radaronline.com/p/florida-county-commissioner-resigns-kkk-costume-photo/
Then he guts public education
https://feaweb.org/issues-action/teacher-and-staff-shortage/
I'd love to see this guy run for President. What has he done that he can defend?
Onward and upward. Let us resume together bashing the MAGAts, a group truly worth of our collective scorn, without equivocation.
On which point I highly recommend Mark Danner's article in the latest issue of NYRB, "The Slow Motion Coup".
Thanks, sheesh, this has been a surprisingly difficult point to make.
People who live in glass houses, etc.
We should just let this go. Overall, it's likely we agree on more things than we disagree.
Palestinian leadership, both Hamas and Abbas, are enriching themselves at the expense of their own citizens. They are killing Palestinians by stealing money donated for food, medicine and infrastructure so that they can live in high style.
Yes, Israel commits abuses, war crimes, etc., there's no argument about that. Actually, what country doesn't? But the Palestinians are expert at deflecting their own crimes against their own people by control of the media narrative. My point was that Palestinian leadership might be found to be far more abusive to everyday Palestinians than Israel is.
I don't get why you're so hung up on Israel, anyway. Because you're Jewish? Unless you actually can conflate Israel with Judaism, which you deny, it makes no sense.
It's a nebulous concept that
"one who lives in a family some of which have been guilty
of child abuse has no right to be critical of child abuse by another family."
Well, the victim can certainly be critical but not the abuser or any enablers. So, I guess it matters whether your family is still enjoying the fruits of colonialism, aka QE2, or if they just enabled the abusers or continue to profit from the abuse. Of course, your family might be aborigine, so if that's the case, I'll apologize.
America is a land of immigrants, it's said, although many are not exactly welcomed. I'm white, my family came from Europe in the early 20th century. We clearly weren't slave owners, yet we continue to benefit from the economic system built on slavery and from white privilege. So, yes, I'm in favor of programs like affirmative action, even though I didn't participate in the perpetuation of the plantation system. I have no standing to be resentful about institutions aiding minority successes.
If you want the context of a discussion about Israel to be limited to Israel, then it has no context. This is a discussion of degree, yet you continue to bring absolutism into it.
Again, and again, Arabs are in the Knesset and were part of the last ruling coalition. Show me other countries guilty of "apartheid" where the victims had any role in government.
You know, your responses don't fare well in the psychological analysis department.
Fucking once a fucking again. Put the Israeli atrocities against the Palestinians into a context that's historical and relevant.
I mentioned the Australian genocide against the aborigines because I know you're Australian and was trying to understand how a descendant of murderous colonizers has purchase to criticize another country's colonizing behavior. The shit that your people did all of a sudden doesn't count? Or we'll just ignore it for now? This is what I meant by historical perspective.
It's like a convicted wife beater, a repeat offender, lecturing other husbands on how they should treat their wives. Because they haven't beaten their wife in a couple of years.
As I responded to sortagreen, the Palestinian leadership is literally stealing food and medicine from its own people, the level of graft is stupefying. It is starving its own people, killing them en masse so they can live the high life in Tangiers and wherever. But hey, look over there, the Israelis!! (this is not to excuse Israeli crimes against humanity, but to try to contextualize it in the region where it's occurring.)
Because the media portrayals of the bad Israelis bring in the bucks. Seize the narrative and prosper. There's so much less money to be had from peace.
Yes, of course, you can criticize Israel, but if your concern is truly for the Palestinians, why criticize only Israel? It's an unserious approach to the overall situation in my opinion.
What says you about that?
It could be argued that Hamas and the PLO are as great a threat to the Palestinian people as is Israel.
How many people do you figure have been killed by errant Hamas bombs?
Abbas is estimated to be worth about $100M:
"For many years, Rashid served as Arafat's financial advisor and was given a free hand to handle hundreds of millions of dollars that were poured on the Palestinian Authority and the PLO by US, EU and Arab donors. According to Rashid, Abbas's net worth was $US100 million."
Of course we knew that Arafat was worth at least $1B:
https://www.brookings.edu/on-the-record/arafats-billions/
Then, of course the Hamas gang:
https://thearabweekly.com/hamas-leaders-seen-living-luxury-while-gazans-suffer
So, they're stealing $100'sM at least from their own people, money given to help the downtrodden Palestinians.
Then then Hamas extrajudicial killings:
https://www.hrw.org/report/2009/04/20/under-cover-war/hamas-political-violence-gaza
And the stories of them throwing opposition voters off rooftops during the election they actually ran, decades ago.
Ok, you explain to me how context can be created without what you call whataboutism.
I'm listening.