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You can spare us the sarcasm, and the celebrations.
Number one, nothing has happened yet, in terms of concrete news. I presume something is coming (and has "leaked" out, as it usually does), given the stock price movement. But like all volatile stocks, this one sometimes goes up as well as down. Let's see at the end of the day what they've got.
Secondly, those of us who still own the stock, with very large losses, would be quite happy to see it go up.
Perhaps the day traders who missed this opportunity to pump and get in for a few are disappointed.
You can find them on another board.
wsj
Absolutely Incredible
They are really getting it done over there.
But someone is buying some edig as well (from the volume) or they are somehow convincing people of their story along with ptsc's.
Amazing.
wsj
Maybe it is "contagious." A long time since we've since this type of percentage upward action in the stock.
wsj
The only thing the Sales Force sells is us, down the river, by getting pay while doing nothing.
Gee, I hope what PTSC is doing is contagious. Maybe our leadership will catch it.
wsj
Maybe Twomil will stop by and tell us how humorless
we are.
Once again it's all manana, manana
Meaning wait until tomorrow.
I am prompted to impart an old German wisdom that comes in rhyme:
Morgen, Morgen, Nur nich Heute,
Sagen alle Faule Leute.
Let me know if anyone wants a translation, since Murrayhill is not here.
wsj
If they deliver (even partially) on the latest round of promises, then Blakeley will be sitting "pretty" with the company generating significant revenues on a seemingly recurring basis.
On the other hand, if the whole evu thing becomes another music player/mos/global standard episode, then I would agree with FF that he will move on. Either because of shareholder pressure or to not be there as the ship sinks a little further.
In fact, you might need a bathosphere at that point to even find the stock price.
wsj
I estimate that if GM's management had not taken the steps
they did, they might have been almost literally torn to shreds at a SHM where the institutions and other interested parties showed up and "voiced" their concerns.
And they might have had a little trouble finding a new job after that.
But at edig's last SHM the sheep approved everything on the agenda, with only one major dissonant voice, and (correct me if I'm wrong) voted for bonuses for management.
Bonuses need to be tied to performance. You give them ex post.
And some people have no trouble finding a job, as corporate welfare recipients.
wsj
What leadership?
What real companies do
A news story found on yahoo appears below.
I bet this was brought on by a bunch of bashers, such as multi-billion dollar institutional investors and top Wall Street security analysts who questioned management when they did not perform.
By DAVID RUNK, Associated Press Writer
19 minutes ago
DETROIT - General Motors Corp., struggling with billions of dollars of losses in North America, announced Tuesday it is cutting in half its yearly dividend to $1 a share and reducing the salaries of its chairman and senior leadership.
ADVERTISEMENT
The cut in its dividend will reduce GM's yearly cash payout by about $565 million. The automaker also plans to cut health benefits for salaried retirees and evaluate ways to restructure its pension plan for salaried U.S. workers.
The announcements came a day after a top aide to billionaire investor Kirk Kerkorian was elected to GM's board. Last month, Jerome York outlined tough measures to bring the company back to profitability, including halving GM's dividend, cutting executive pay and setting profitability goals.
"These are difficult decisions that involve sacrifices by our employees, stockholders, retirees and the senior leadership team," GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner said in a statement.
"However, we are confronting a dramatic change in our industry and in the global competitive environment, and that requires us to look for additional ways to reduce financial risk and improve our competitiveness for the long term."
As part of the changes, Wagoner will take a 50 percent pay cut. Vice Chairmen John Devine, Bob Lutz and Fritz Henderson will see their salaries reduced by 30 percent, and Executive Vice President and General Counsel Thomas Gottschalk will take a 10 percent cut.
In addition, there will be no annual or long-term cash bonuses paid to GM's global executives for 2005 performance.
Twomil: My sense of humor is intact.
Send me your email address and I'll send you some good Jesse Jackson jokes.
It's just that I don't find capital losses very funny, especially while waiting for the company's technology to become a global standard.
wsj
Twomil
It's been deleted once, why would you post that again?
Lying to shareholders gets people sent to the slammer -- you can ask Lay and Skilling about that shortly (and hopefully untruthful executives of much smaller companies at a future date). With good behavior, Lay and Skilling will be out in about 150 years.
Not posting hard questions directed at underperforming (to be charitable) management on a chat board.
Speaking more broadly, about one forum vs. the other, do you see any similarities here between the old debate about the relative merits of the USA and the Soviet Union? When leftists disparaged the U.S., it was quickly pointed out to them that they should remember that they could do that here without getting thrown in prison. While criticizing the USSR inside its borders got you sent to Siberia.
How are things on Agora?
And "mark you this" (to use a nice medieval phrase), the accuracy of Cassandra and others who consistently have been skeptical of the company's prospects has been more accurate, by at least an order of magnitude, than the accuracy of those who have been optimistic (to again be charitable) about those prospects.
So go have a drink and remember the good old days on the FPLY board.
wsj
Let's see if this is backed by solid news in a few days.
If not, it's the price moving based on more rumor or (and I doubt this because of the low volume) in response to some buy orders that might be interpreted as being driven by information not yet public.
A few more of these moves, in percentage terms, would be nice.
I think when the jury is done,
Ken Lay and Skilling are going to be removed very far from the rest of society for a while.
Not being able to adopt the "I was only following orders defense", they only have one choice left -- "I had no idea this was happening."
wsj
Post Something of Substance and I'll Respond ...
or go back to Agora and engage in rah-rah, sis-boom-bah.
Has PTSC said what they will do with all that cash?
Maybe they could purchase a lie detector to be shared by the three sister companies. Or sodium penathol (sp).
wsj
PTSC: Hard to Say
They have been getting cash in an unusual way -- suing others for infringement. Certainly not from their raison d'etre - selling java chips.
But it's funny how the world turns. Some years ago I needed to generate some cash and sold ptsc to do that rather than edig.
Guess which one has dropped the most in price since then?
wsj
The bride took it in the ...
abutment (original post spelling). How could she be ok?
wsj
With apologies to Shirley Temple:
On the good ship, Agora.con,
the cheerleaders will lead you on,
down it goes,
as everyone knows,
but the daytraders have fun.
Sound familiar to anyone?
And sadly at the point when they buy, it will probably be too late for the rest of us. People in the know always seem to know before the news comes out with this stock. Witness the declines in the months before the bad news was publicly, finally released.
So when the insiders do buy it will likely be the "signal" after the price action has taken.
wsj
Maybe I missed something,
but all the multilevel marketing type arrangements I've seen involve the sale of distributor rights as much as they do sale of any product.
So you make your money if you can draw more people in who buy a spot in the chain. You need lots of people in the pyramid to make it work.
Yes?
wsj
Yes, it has that "multilevel marketing" --
polite phrase for pyramid scheme -- aspect to it. Don't say anything for fear it will scare away the next set of people who might buy stock.
Truly sad.
As I've pointed out before, in line with your last post, in real companies with sharp shareholders, they hold managements' feet to the fire. None of this half witted "you attack my stock and you attack me" attitude.
wsj
FF: Sounds about right
You might add that they probably are doing things to placate the real core (possibly very troublesome) shareholders, just like in the old days the Communists in the Soviet Union always made sure that the Army was happy.
Perhaps they are the friendlies buying the debt at very favorable terms, which makes them less troublesome regarding the broken promises and low share prices.
wsj
SGE
I think that would make for a dandy lawsuit, at least from the point of view of the friendly investors holding the notes.
Because a judge would see it as nothing more than a simplistic attempt to violate the equity feature of the deal.
You think they would be crazy enough to try it?
wsj
As a fine point in this discussion, for those who care about dilution (and I for one don't find it to be the Bogeyman it is made out to be), there is already dilution in that the note holder share in the royalties from the medeviewer.
That is, they have an equity like claim stapled on to the straight debt claim that the note is. The more of the medeviewer revenues they get, even if they don't convert and become straight equity, the less there is for the existing equity.
My two cents worth on this discussion.
West Side Jack
Philo
No, I'm not saying or trying to imply that at all.
That is an old German phrase (to my knowledge), the one about blowing powdered sugar up the backside, to describe when someone is conciously trying to mislead someone else with flattering or optimistically false statements.
No offense meant to anyone or their personal choices or whatever, beyond that I think misguided optimism is at best silly.
wsj
And what is most consistent with the Company, its Track Record and the behavior by its chief officers?
Certainly not the sunshine and "blowing of powdered sugar up the back passage" that occurs on agora.
wsj
He just can't stay away, huh?
That's what happens when you become a "Guru" on a message board.
wsj
On further reflection, I think jtdiii (or someone else) on the other board put their finger on it.
When someone leaves of his own accord, its a surprise to the company and you need time to find a replacement. Search process and all that.
In this case when you have simultaneous announcements -- President leaving, new one starting -- the last one was likely let go.
No surprise that he is not answering the phone or emails.
wsj
The captain no longer has to go down with ship (eom)
FF
Tut, tut, sarcasm from you?
wsj
Interesting to say the least.
If things are not going well, not surprising that the president resigned (even with no job in hand, as is implied by the "to pursue other interests").
wsj
From Honest Management
The quote below comes from today's press release by Patriot Scientific. It sheds some clear light on edigital's past history.
"Through May 31, 2005, Patriot Scientific incurred repeated net losses and used significant amounts of cash in its operations. Historically, Patriot has been forced to rely upon equity and other types of financing to fund its operations - often at unfavorable terms due to Patriot's past less than desirable financial condition."
wsj
SGE: An Interesting Topic for Discussion
The broader question would be not should Norris come in to an Edig specific role, but what would turn the company around (if anything).
Norris might provide some marketing skills, but when the product ain't selling the fundamental question is: Is it the product or the marketing?
I suspect that here, in the industrial sales rather than consumers sales world, marketing is overrated. Customers can size up the product and determine if it is what they want. I don't think that any marketing brilliance is likely to help (as opposed to Apple selling "cool" to the consumer with IPOD, etc...)
So in that sense Woody N. probably won't help much. The track record seems to indicate that he does not have core management skills, but is an inventor and a good smoozer (sp).
Without a product/technology with some sort of distinct, definable advantage over what else is out there, there won't be much going on.
Beyond product and marketing, honest management is required. Those who have met Norris at the SHM can speak to that. But dishonest management is a bad sign.
wsj
JW
In response to your private message, sometimes the extreme analogy (and in some ways it may not be that far off) best drives home the point.
Like saying to someone, "Gee, ball teams that historicdally self destruct have the following attributes. Wow, our home town team is acting pretty much like that. Oh, boy, that makes me think we are in BIG trouble."
The company has a long history of nondelivery/failure/partial failure while promising the moon. Most recently, things look quite bleak. Posts saying "well, you don't know they may still have something up their sleeve" starts to sound very Hitlerian.
The point of the analogy is not to equate the poster directly to Hitler as a person or otherwise (certainly not my intention), but to show that the mindset seems to be sadly similar.
Despite all evidence, let's keep conjuring up images of final victory. That is not warranted by the facts.
wsj
SGE
Isn't it weird that (and recognize that it is an analogy after all) people get into this bunker mentality where they won't admit how bad it is and keep trying to justify based on "there may be something around the next corner"?
Whatever Hitler was or wasn't he is a classic example -- not only in terms of his personal mindset but especially in terms of trying to rouse those still left (meaning largely the German Army that had fought like hell to Stalingrad and back again over 4 years or so and the German People) to buy into the farce and sacrifice themselves for his own agenda.
Do you see any parallels in terms of this company and all the big promises and hype and feeding of misinformation to the faithful party members/soldiers/people?
If you want to discuss further, we can begin that dialogue via email: wsidejack@yahoo.com.
wsj
Because he is looking for support somehow.
And does not have a logical argument that makes sense. But shows up here for some unknown reason to discuss things, only so that he can really reassure himself (or others) that things are OK.
Things are getting so bad that even the historically totally blind supporters of the company, who have tried to ignore every negative, are starting to see the bad track record.
I give SGE abut 3-6 months before he drops the "but we don't know" stance and decides it has been a bad investment and that he has been lied to.
wsj
"It is Always Darkest Before the Dawn"
Adolph Hitler, from his bunker below Berlin in April 1945, just before the final collapse of Nazi Germany
Price Drop Today Says It All
The 1.8 in revenue is not a surprise, if there was some trust in the company's earlier PR about sales so far. The end of the line with Wencor(whatever the name is) is the surprise and it hit the price.
wsj
Man, it's quiet over here tonight. But I wandered over to
agony.com (a rare event for me) to see what the chatter is and it's jumping. At least one guy is taking the position that Wencor has made a big mistake and they will be sorry.
A lot of good that does edig, but none are so blind as ...
Others are rightly concerned about what this heralds for the future.
wsj