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Has anyone spoken to CEO recently ? I wonder what his response would be as to why in 3 years no revenue, no cash, nothing accomplished ?
For whatever it is worth my two cents- the company has serious problems to face ,with management whose strategy and execution has failed to address, in fact has made worse. So I doubt any value until issues are addressed. As far as Class B shares are concerned they have same issue and then some, to register the class B shares would be extremely costly, and SEC probably would delay the registration with comment letters that would tie CFO up in knots.
Multiple reverses do not break any rules. But misleading,untimely or incomplete disclosures are a problem for this company.
The company is in a capital-intensive industry that relies on speculative equity financing which is hard enough to get these days- even hader with this company's track record.CFO is certainly not on a path to build credibility, and wiping out shareholders didnt help either. This included shareholders who believed things like ( a) diluton could be kept "manageable" (b) who were offended a second reverse could be discussed as probable (c) conventional bank financing a possibility (d) company would meet projected september start date for mill.Without shareholders like this to absorb stock what future does company have ?
Actually disagree , without Guyer perhaps the company could be re-structured and might, I stress might, have a future. With Guyer it is on a path to oblivion based on how he conducts business and inability to achieve objectives.
Iwasnt expecting the second one so soon but I was expecting it. I agree CFO giving impression that they could get conventional financing considering state of the market, the DTC chill, etc was incorect. My impression is they feel since they have inserted a lot of legal boiler plat einto their 10k's they feel free to state whatever in their press releases.
My intention is not to defend the company at all,but to point out that focusing on issues SEC may do something about seems more productive at this point. Second, it is the lack of perspective that made some people lose money on this stock.It was fairly obvious another reverse was coming, and in my opinion fairly obvious they couldnt meet the september projected start date.
At this point only possible hope for company is CFO resigns, turns back most of clss B stock, and appoints new manager. Sad though current shareholders have just been wiped out.
The reverse splits are not illegal, nor except for the raising authorized shares day after reversed implemented , do I see any issue for SEC to investigate there.
The SEC engineering office reviewing their press releases this year will bring the fastest action.This is such a crystal clear area wont need much of SEC time to shoot off a comment letter to CFO.
The issue of relationships between those receiving shares and the compan;, how they removed restrictions and when; and in particular the relationship of the company mentioned that arranged the convertibles, these are all issues that could cause company and CFO some real issues to deal with.
The class B shares _ second on the mill, and who approved and in what manner, as well as fearn/jo grant relationship with company are very questionable in my mind.I am starting to doubt whether financial statements correctly reflected related party transactions.
I am unsure how a SEC investigation is supposed to be of benefit to shareholders, except if it results in CFO stepping down and handling back most of his class B shares !
Just my opinion - CFO making more money out of this than is being disclosed.The sheer disrespect he has for shareholders does not exactly support giving him the benefit of the doubt any longer, time for him to setp down !!
The OTCBB is unlikely as well, so that leaves the OTC QB.No this is extremely unlikely to ever occur, and for it to occur it would take 6 months to 2 years, if then.
For reasons mentioned no sane person would send the money required when they could just start a new company and get through faster and cheaper.
With all due respect, the people who post such possibilities on this board never can answer logically concrete questions about this company.
CEO might be a bit crazy, but no experienced SEC lawyer would recommend BTDG trying to become a SEC reporting company again.
A public company techically one that is a SEC reporting entity; an IPO or initial public offering presumably BTDG did long ago when it became previously a reporting company, so I guess one could say a "second" IPO.
However all this is academic, there seems to be no way any ratonal person would back BTDG becoming a SEC reporting again- and why would CEO open himself up to the SEC comment process ?
The BTDG board is interesting for some of the comments,and the PR's from BTDG which are always amusing. Sadly company seems to have no ability to generate revenue let alone profits.
well it certainly wont even get to that stage.
this is an interesting board , you have posted for some time over and over " it is a scam". while i can unerstand why you say that, i have always suspected the CEO is just mentally disturbed and desperate.then there is kazorian and striker who contrary to every bit of history of this company keep pushing it as a "buy".
the BTDG filings are a unique piece of work, i have never seen anything like them.
simply put no one in his right mind would put up 50,100 or even 200 thousand to try to get this company back to SEC reporting status.remember they had some shady CPA who was put out of business a few years back, so they dont even have a starting point.if you look at their financials there is some very weird stuff.imagine the SEC comment letter though could be put out- it would probably be the longest comment letter in the history of the SEC.
IPO ? Who on earth would think an IPO is possible for BTDG ? Just crazy. This is why I like this board, absolutely unbelievable comments are posted. To do an IPO this company would need audited statements- I doubt this would cost under $50,000 at least, and probably take a year IF CPA could sign off.Then the SEC would have so many comments that it would delay the effectiveness of the registration for months if not years.
I could easily see an IPO for BTDG costing $50,000 or even $200,000. No sane person would do this.
That was just one of many examples of press release after press release announcing deals that dont happen. Dont get me wrong, I am just fascinated at the thought process that a company for years can do nothing, but is still some think a good speculation and CEO is considered competent ( as a CEO , he may be as a tech person).
Plans and maybe's have gone on for years- let's CEO execute on 1 thing. I really would prefer he gets a hot dog stand, at least would be some revenue.
Wat have they bene doing the last 3 years except announcing deal after deal, none of which ever results in anything.
Can you name $100 in revenue any of these "deals" produced ?
They indicate they acquired a "mortgage lead business ", what business does this consist of ?
I have heard of companies in this position before and the explanation I received was as I stated- and it makes sense, otherwise why would they have done things in this way.
Authorized Shares- I think you missedmy point or I didnt explain clearly enough in this post. The reason,as I understand it, they first reversed the stock + reduced authorized shares is that couldn't reverse the stock by majority consent without reducing the shares. So by announcing 1 day after they would then do a majority consent again to increase shares seems very suspect to me.I am not a lawyer and perhaps this is legal in Nevada, but seems very much against intent of the law.
Reverse Splits- I agree not illegal, but since first one failed to achieve objectives, the second yet another indicator of how management fails to meet objectives.
Money- Yes that is a factor and simply this has been same problem for quite some time.Of course any financing will be extremely dilutive, please dont tell me you would expect any sort of normal discount to be demanded by a potential (however foolish) investor !This is like the thought some had for months that "conventional" financing could be available to this company
Re -Issues- Yes you are right many of these are normal issues. But judging from management performance do you really have confidence they can set an plan and then implement that plan successfully ?
Then there is SEC, whether current complaint goes anywhere or not, sooner or later the press releases they put out this year will draw attenton of SEC engineering office. If SEC looks further, I would hazard a guess the s8 shares received and if sold, or 144 filings, or settlement of accounts payale with shares, will possibly cause some serious issues for company to do deal with- so even less money for operations.Let alone whatever role the finding agent had for the convertible loans.
There is a pattern here of an inexperienced CFO being unable to execute. Just my opinion and I certainly would be interested in evidence indicating he is competent.
I can only guess in response to your question. First I dont think it will disappear overnight, just that is my current prediction for the future. Second, in regards to work being done I could guess (a) CFO wants something happening to try to re-launch his story (b) maybe he believes that when work finished he may recover part of the bond (c) perhaps a fixed fee sub-contract he already paid for . (d) or he has some deal with owner.I dont know really.
I do think the CFO is a bit out of it, his strategy and implementation hasnt worked, and I see nothing indicating he will change course- so doing some minimal work on the site makes sense according to his way of thinking.
What about bonding to operate even if past reclamation finished ? Do we know anything on that ? Do we know status of the case winding its way through the courts that they were appealing ? If they lose wont the prevailing party just file a lien on the bond ? And suppose they dont get the permit without conditions after inspection ?
All these issues there before the second reverse split. If they fooled around with related parties selling shares,or s8 share transactions not filed where required, they could have even more problems. Their press releases alone showed inexperience and ignorance.Or increasing their authorized shares 1 day after completing the reverse somehow it would seem there must be some case law in Nevada about such issues.
So yes I do think company will disappear, for now just a curiosity to watch.I found their press releases offensive in their assumption of ignorance on the part of investors in the stock.
The second reverse was coming, writing on the wall, so I do find it exceedingly curious all the complaints about it, it was rather obvious- ony question was the timing. Since whatever crackpot plan CFO had has not been announced, he may be regretting the reverse as without volume hard for him to sell more convertibles
Quite agree the questions about the mill opening are just a curiosity item at this point. Even more curious to me is contrary to all indications ( even before the reverse) it seems some investors just want to believe in miracles at this company.
My own prediction is company wil de-register, either because of SEC engineering office questions, or CFO just cant maintain reporting costs that will end the convertble financing, and company will disappear over time.Maybe then mill owner and CFO , using same company that arranged the convertibles in the first place, will try using another vehicle.
Out of curiosity I can certainly call and perhaps glean some information. But ( in my opinion) I already know company will not raise the money and have the time to re-open by September, and probably not this year, and there is a limit what a government agency can say over the phone in such matters.As far as mill feed I see nothing that indicates any probability that there is any mill feed avaiable in the short term ,I have never understood how anyone could think based on the company's own press releases their is any short term probability nearby properties under option could supply mill feed in the short term.
With all due respect, do you still think for some reason that this company can get the mill operating this year ? I had my doubts from day 1 they would re-open this year, their disclosure that they need $3 million confirmed to me they wont be in operation by September if at all this year.
I tried to be objective and give company benefit of the doubt, but those press releases this year showed management either out of their minds, or truly shouldnt be running a public company.
The 144 filings, s8 stock, relationship between property owners and company, self dealing by CFO in regards to the mill, all issues that could be challenged, as well as increasing the authorized shares the day after the second reverse done.My gut feeling is company that arranged the convertible transaction has more to do with this company than meets the eye.Somebody set this up for CFO to run with.
I still think though for faster and more immediate results simply if SEC review this years press releases alone, the company at best would be faced with an immediate comment letter and demand for retractions, revisions to websites, and CFO would do so then de-register the stock.
The second reverse to me not an issue, it is neither illegal, nor would any rational investor not have expected a second reverse this year.
Will be interesting to watch the ongoing saga of this CFO.
Your posts highlights why this stock attracts negative attention.
Wild press releases, never meeting projections, CFO controls voting shares and has a second position on the mill. Funny though all this has been there for a long time, it took the second reverse for some people to stop claiming "conventional financing around the corner","secret marketing plan being prepared because CFO holding cards close to vest", etc etc.
Been quite a learning experience !
Just my opinion -
Work even if finished by June, will need to be inspected, I cannot see anyway they can open in September and probably not at all in 2014.
I would be surprised if they got back the full amount of the bond in 2013.
Mill will not re-open in the fall, even if they get permit without conditions I dont believe any chance they will raise the $3 million they say necessary.
50/50 chance they will de- register this year, maybe after another reverse. The legal expenses will mount if they have to deal with SEC engineerng office, they dont have a leg to stand on regarding the "NI 43-101" press releases.
Also, dont they have a lawsuit judgement they have been appealing ?
Imagine a new CGFI press release : CGFI Moves to Grey Market to Benefit Shareholders.
Is the 970 telephone number also for the company ?
Thanks for the information, so they are starting some planned work, wonder when it will actually be complete.
My response about the poor management issue was in specific reference to the reverse split, simply that in itself not illegal, and two reverse splits in a short period just an indication of poor management.
Stopping people buying the stock due to misleading press releases and website can be done fairly quickly by the SEC engineering office looking at their press releases and website, in my opinion.One comment letter - which SEC can file on their edgar site- I think would stop their press release engine cold.I have consistently held the view that their press releases this year are out of line.
As far as investigating other actions whether the whole class B issue,or possible issue involving the 144 filings, or the decrease in authorized shares then 1 day later increasing authorized shares,may be issues as well. So I am not agreeing or disageeing ,I just dont know. I think there are some strange things about this stock- for example, the CGO has a second on the mill, supposedly from money he lent the company ? Did he actually lend the money, or was this some sort of round-about compensation ? Were any s8 shares sold by officers but not reflected in form 4 filings ?
So I guess how long until the company de-registers the next question ! Just seems to get worse and worse.
There is nothing illegal about a reverse split or even multiple reverses splits,so I am not sure what would be investigated on that one.There is no law against bad management.
-The issue of doing a reverse split combined with reducing authorized shares, then 1 day later increasing the authorised shares is an issue. The reason they did that according to my understanding of the rules is that to reverse split the stock and maintain or increase authorised shares (at the same time)requires a shareholders meeting. This is a bit odd how they did it to say the least.
- However, the press releases this year and what is on website the SEC engineering office at the very least would probably immediately issue a comment letter, and the company would need to respond, and probably issue retractions and take down much of their existing website.There is nothing really to investigate or time consuming here- if SEC engineering office sees this year's press releases they probably can draft a comment letter in an afternoon ! This is fastest means to put a stop to inane press releases that some people believe.)Company would probably answer but then consider de-registering the stock).
SEC has limited resources and has to prioritise, and again I dont think they are in the business of punishing poor managers.
I do not own a large position, I backed off from increasing size of position after I reviewed stock some more. Sometimes following such stocks one can learn more about the market, but also on the off chance the situation changes opportunities can arise.However the more I look at this stock over time the less impressed I am with potential as company currently structured. I think simply it is a tax loss at the moment, Best to sell, and wait 60 days and see what situation is. Even the last of the true believers will as September approaches lose faith , I think.
The chickens will come home to roost with this year's press releases.If the company stays a SEC reporting company eventually they will have to put out a retraction and incur lots of legal expense responding to SEC comment letters at some point.If they have fooled around with 144 filings, that will probably come up too.
The logical move would be for company to embark on new business and marketing strategy to salvage what is left.Or they will de-register and sell what is left to pay themselves and company will slowly disappear onto the grey market.
All these sorts of stocks of speculative so I accept any loss, but I am offended by the inane press releases which in my opinion are misleading at best.
A simple look at Hecla's website will show very quickly that Hecla is not producing from this project.
Hi Les, as usual you present logical questions.
1. " How do you know he doesnt know " - You are correct I dont know what he knows- that is precisely why I gave my opinion (a) he knows he cant meet projections but his conception of disclosure and IR stategy is such he wont release a negative PR. I think the pattern shows this could be true. (b) Or he is intellectually challenged and just doesnt realise he wont meet his projection- which is even worse.
2. "The couldnt put together case to sell about 17 million shares at $.18 per share". I can only give my opinion this is very unlikely (a) The whole industry is sufering a lack of capital for juniors right now. Even worse for companies that have a DTC chill, and have a history of huge discounts through convertible financing.(b) Given this difficulty no I do not think it is probable for this company to raise $3 million at $.18. Where do you expect this capital to come from ? If a retail buyer ,would you buy stock from this company at $.18 per share knowing that you would have to hold 6 months, and even then maybe not be able to place in a brokerage account ? If an institutional buyer they would inist on a deep discount, and knowing $3 million is just for mill, they probably would need assurance there is some mill feed- there may be, but I see nothing indicating it is probable they have mill feed.
3."They couldn't open the mill by September" (a) Do you or anyone think the mill will be open by September (b) Look at the calendar and all the steps that would need to be taken to re-open the mill in 3 1/2 months- hiring of personnel, raising the money, getting permit without conditions, ordering supplies, turning over the mill to make sure everything in operational order,getting the orders firmed up and mill feed assured.Simply it does not seem very probable to me.
Les I have to admit it is theoretically possible that someone with money actually thinks CFO has credibility and back him- but for $3 million considering how he has managed things past few years I just doubt it. There have been some general market factors beyond his control,but ultimately my opinion is he has failed in meeting objectives the past few years and I see nothing to indicate a change for the future
Actually worse- since no bid and hardly any trades CEO not making any money out of this recently as far as one can see.Company is dead now absent a reverse split.
Where is CEO's MBA from ? I looked up Alameda College and there is a College of Alameda community college with only two year degrees.There is a university with that name which is notorious diploma mill-they once gave a diploma to a dog for "childhood development experience".
Does anyone know ?
Hi Les. I disagree as those are two different things (a) overly promotional press releases OR (b) press releases keeping investors informed of progress.
For reasons stated several times their press releases are not effective and I consider misleading. That is different than promoting investor awareness- and confidence- through reasonable press releases. They are quoting re-opening in September, I am quite sure CFO knows ( or has known as soon as he received the $3 million re-activation estimate) that he wont meet projections.So it is not unreasonable a press release or website update to reflect the current reality.
Standard risk factor boiler plate ( though I would agree investors should pay more attention to) doesnt absolve him of being misleading. Late filings in an era of increased cost and complication of XBRL reports dont surprise me.I must agree I have no way to show conclusively that he was intentionally misleading ( how do I know what was on his mind)- actually if he werent then can question his competence,i.e. how could anyone have thought this company could raise $3 million in time for a september re-opening ?
You may be right there are other companies with worse hype- but I still maintain saying they are acquiring a $200 million value asset without disclosing that is before capital requirements and extraction costs seems pretty misleading to me. Then there is the whole NI43-101 issue.
Basically what he is doing isnt working so why not try a diferent approach ? Letting people buy the stock with public information giving timetables that CFO knows cant be met is misleading in my book.But you are logical in noting that the risk factors outline how diffuclt it would be for this company to meet projections,just people seem to not read.
Not sure what message was deleted and why, but why would you accumulate shares of a company that has shown zero progress and zero indication management has any ability to execute on anything they have announced in three years ? Is this simply in your mind a lottery ticket ?
That is only explanation I can think of , and if that is correct then it would be fair for you not to fool possible new investors by portraying some value in this speculation.
I am curious what worth of "total assets" are. As far as I can see they have mainly options on purchase of mining properties which (a) they have no funds to complete (b) dubious methods as discussed many tiems of assigning values. Then they have a mill, which I agree is an asset even with a irst and secodn mortgage against it- but to realize value takes some management skill to get permit, find ore to run through mill, and run mill at a profit- all the while finding capital to do this.
This would be hard enough for a good manager with experience in this industry- do you feel the CFO has the ability to do all this ?
I still believe it is quite possible the CEO is rather disturbed and believes doing business is putting out press releases. How can this be a scam ? He can't be making any money or bringing in any investment. He hasnt done a reverse, and must know know after all these years that he wont be securing any sort of normal investment.
A question, did you believe that it was probable this CFO would ever meet any of his projectons ?
That wouldn't be a surprise, based on track record of CFO and this company one would certainly expect another reverse in the future.
The CFO's ability to create "true believers" through inane press releases and projections is the foundation for his "success".
Rather than just post such comments please explain to the rest of us something tangible or logical to back up such comments.
You have been making these sort of comments for
how long ? 1 ,2 or 3 years ?
What specifically have they achieved that indicates they are " turning company around quite well " ?
Is there even $1,000 in revenue the last 3 months ?
Are there any profits ?
Has BTDG received any cash investment ?
Have they new mortgage lead customers ? Have they any production from mining properties ?
PLEASE JUST NAME 1 TANGIBLE ACHIEVMENT OF THIS COMPANY THAT WOULD SUPPORT YOUR POSITIVE VIEW
I am asking you simply in the face of the track record of this company what prompts you to be positive about the company, a rather simple question I would think, with all due respect.Talking to the CEO serves no purpose as after several years just looking at his press releases and pink sheet filings,it is rather obvious nothing has been achieved.
CEO like many should focus on his strengths, being a CEO is not one of them. Even opening a hot dog stand would generate some revenue, or if he has technical expertise doing computer repair, or buying liquidation electronic parts and re-selling.Maybe if he could achieve 1 thing, he could build on that.
The questions about this company's strategy and plan were there before this second reverse split, and continue still.The reverse was coming this year, the only issue was when.The mill is a rather interesting situation- the company has followed a strategy of being overly-promotional in an attempt to keep the true believers buying, yet no press release update on progress at the mill. I suspect we may find surprises here as well ( part of a pattern for this company).
Is there any way that you will respond to quite reasonable questions about the company ? I am trying to be objective, to find why you are such a supporter in absence of anything believable that would indicate this company has any chance of being profitable within the next 20 years.
Why just post GO BTDG all the time?
Looking forward based on what ? I really dont understand how someone can keep positive positive messages about a company that year after year not ony doesnt perform, but doesnt even close any deal it has released a PR about. On what do you base a positive future about ?
Do you really think after 1 year the HIP HOP guy just leaving moeny in the bank in a CD to fund BTDG becausue BTDG has great management or balance sheet or he cant find a shell company or it has growing revenue let lone earnings ?
Maybe just answer one question- why would someone wanting a NASDAQ listing spend 2 to 5 times as much, and take twice to five times as long trying to do it with BTDG when they could just start from scratch. Can you give any logical reason whatsoever ?
The auditing requirements for this company would be horrendous, and during SEC review process for a registration statement they would put this company through probably the longest SEC comment letter in the history of the exchange. Imagine the dialogue :
We notice you are in mortgage lead business.
-Correct
We notice you issued X million of shares for this ?
-Correct
Did you do any due diligence on this business ?
- Oh yes extensive due diligence, we read the contract 5 times.
Has this business generated $1 in revenue ?
- We have never generated $1 in revenue in this business.
If your business not a shell company can you identify any revenue the last three years ?
- No we dont have revenue because we believe in looking forward.
What is your main business line, really ?
- We are in the press-release generation business.We dont generate revenue or profits or even much trading in our stock, but we have fun ! We feel important because we are in business.
Why do you file a 10k when this is an SEC form for reporting companies?
-Because we can.
We note several problems with your financial statements, who really wrote they are accordng to GAAP ?
- We did, we say they are GAAP and therefore they are : why would anyone expect us with no revenue to actually prepare GAAP statements?
So you see how ludricous this situation is- in fact so much so it may not be illogical to assume this is not a scam but just a slightly deranged management as pretending to be in business.