Individual Investor
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Yes, linda1.
So, after posting this, do you still feel Lehman has been using the $55B in NOLs without any documentation on non-GAAP Operating Statements?
mojo
linda1,
My conversations with A&M guys at Lehman were about a year ago.
The last couple of A&M guys at Lehman sell assets assigned for liquidation by the Courts.
The proceeds are brought into the Lehman Estate to pay whatever Lehman is due to pay in amounts approved by the Courts.
A&M gets their fee for selling assets.
They aren't handling anything else.
Anything to do with NOLs is handled by a Lehman Tax Executive.
Outside of whatever Lehman officials may be on this Board, if any, I have been unable to contact or speak with any Lehman people about anything.
Non-GAAP financial statements are far from ideal but the Courts approve them with certain stipulations and omissions, an NOL accounting being one of the unclear issues.
Good luck.
I re-posted it from linda1.
I'm questioning it, too, and have some theories.
What do you think, jersey?
mojo
linda1:
<<I think the NOLS may have already been used.>>
Interesting. I've read and thought about this claim of yours.
Any more on this? Did this accounting recently initiate?
I have thought of over the years that if the NOLs were used, there would be an accounting somewhere in the Operating Statements of exactly how many NOLs were used that year at the assumed tax rate.
I've never seen this accounting provided in any of the non-GAAP Statements provided by the Estate. It seems there would be but I'm not certain.
Furthermore, the Alvarez & Marsal guys remaining on the case have told me Lehman has an Executive working with the remaining non-liquidated assets, if there will be any, to re-position the Company and this includes the NOL tax credits, if any.
Additionally, many shareholders assumed, rightly or wrongly, 51% of the tax credits (or $11.2B assuming a tax rate of 40%) at the very least would go to equity.
This explains two things:
1. The Estate's pursuit of using the NOLs in a merger of sorts
2. The belief of shareholders that the CTs are covered as well as the preferred positions to some extent.
What do you think?
Anyone?
mojo
If they can close the gap with 100% redemption in Europe, I think they can close it with the CTs.
An economist was recently talking down Venezuelan bondholders. He said they were financing a rogue regime that was stealing from the people and furthering a major political crisis.
Criticisms can be made toward Lehman debtholders, too. Same with the short activists and Lehman counter-parties who have piled on short positions to gain assets and market share and drive out jobs.
Lehman has won significant counter party decisions and have fought effectively against "rogue operation" accusations and positions Lehman competitors held themselves.
Quit the politics!
Either Barclays with BOE assistance or the Debtholders should either step up and provide significant contributions if Lehman is brought back on the market or agree to significant reductions in face value if Lehman is wound down and the CTs and OBS arrangements are settled.
mojo
Disgusting!
Hopefully, the judges & attorneys will get what is left into a position for the victims where the losses won't be so bad.
Same with Lehman.
mojo
Barclays equities problem: it lost the Lehmanites.
Link: http://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/283773/barclays-equities-lost-lehman-bankers
mojo
Glad to see Lloyds Bank of Britain is making billions from Government loans that have returned hundreds of millions.
Link: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-lloyds-agm-idUSKBN1871BL
Please explain again here why Lehman shareholders had to guarantee a Chp 7 Liquidation of LBI with 100% repayment without any risk born by BOE or Barclays.
Thank you.
mojo
We've been left at Roanoke by William Smith who has left for England to refresh supplies but will return.
Last time it happened, it took 3+ years.
Good luck.
Can you double check that CUSIP?
9087444?
"No ringy dingy".
mojo
Jersey,
I realize my post could have been vague.
But, I'm hopeful.
There are really negative people and they have agendas.
So do the CTs and the CT prospectus.
I don't know exactly what Court decisions are most formative but I'm hoping for more information through the message board.
Good luck.
mojo
A life changer for certain!
It would make a lot of Millionaires.
And, why?
Investors speculated on securities with BK guarantees of repayment and non-discharge during a 5 year, 20 month non-payout period where their payment has not been re-instated in a BK guaranteeing $55B in Tax Credits and other legal recoveries.
Not to mention the quality of underlying assets and business revenues were Top 5 in the Industry at the time of the Chp 11/7 filing.
Seems prudent to me.
mojo
Yes, wayne49.
As I posted, "What, if anything, is keeping them from extending more credit or making further investment in Lehman to increase recoveries and take advantage of the NOLs?
Can we discuss this with any accuracy?
A lot more is now known about Lehman vulnerabilities and the Courts have decided some limitations."
It is helpful to realize the CTs are non-dischargeable and must survive a discharge after they exit BK.
Wayne - What is the discharge event and what does a successful discharge event, in Lehman's case, involve for Lehman to return to the market as a business as you understand it?
As I stated above, this should be clearer to identify since the Courts have been entering constructive opinions for 8 years.
Thank you.
Mojo
Judge Chapman schedule is full of Lehman hearing for the next two weeks including a distribution hearing.
A lot with C.
mojo
There is a long list of large Lehman creditors.
What, if anything, is keeping them from extending more credit or making further investment in Lehman to increase recoveries and take advantage of the NOLs?
Can we discuss this with any accuracy?
A lot more is no known about Lehman vulnerabilities and the Courts have decided some limitations.
Lehman was a Top 5 Investment Bank with a quality book of business before filing Chp 11/7.
mojo
Does everyone remember when Bob Marsal stated in 2009 that he thought Lehman was going to exit BK and get back on the market within 2 years of filing Chp 11 & Chp7 (LBI)?
What is the excuse that it is taking longer?
Anyone know?
mojo
"You bought that log, you know what I mean?
You bought that log, s404n1tn0cc!"
Link:
Maybe the Junior Bonds don't have to be paid back before the CTs:
"CERTAIN TERMS OF THE SUBORDINATED DEBENTURES
The subordinated debentures will be issued pursuant to the subordinated indenture, dated as of February 1, 1996, as amended and supplemented. Holdings may, without the consent of the holders of the subordinated debentures, create and issue additional subordinated debentures ranking equally with the subordinated debentures and otherwise similar in all respects except for the issue date, issue price and the payment of interest accruing prior to the issue date of such additional subordinated debentures.
Such further subordinated debentures, if any, would be consolidated and form a single series with the subordinated debentures. No additional subordinated debentures can be issued if an event of default has occurred with respect to the subordinated debentures.
The preferred securities, the subordinated debentures and the guarantee do not limit the ability of Holdings and its subsidiaries to incur additional indebtedness, including indebtedness that ranks senior in priority of payment to the subordinated debentures and the guarantee.
In addition, the subordinated debentures will be effectively subordinated to all existing and future obligations of Holdings' subsidiaries. Since Holdings is a holding company, its cash flow and consequent ability to satisfy its obligations under the subordinated debentures is dependent upon the earnings of its subsidiaries and the distribution of those earnings or loans or other payments by those subsidiaries to Holdings. Holdings' subsidiaries will have no obligation to pay any amount in respect of the subordinated debentures or to make any funds available therefor.
S-12
Dividends, loans and other payments by certain of Holdings' subsidiaries are restricted by net capital and other rules of various regulatory bodies. Additionally, the ability of Holdings to participate as an equity holder in any distribution of assets of any subsidiary is subordinate to the claims of creditors of the subsidiary, except to the extent that any claims Holdings may have as a creditor of the subsidiary are judicially recognized.
You should refer to the most recent report on Form 10-K or Form 10-Q of Holdings filed with the SEC and incorporated by reference in this prospectus supplement to obtain the most recent financial information about Holdings."
mojo
Lots of bonds were issued by Lehman.
This list shows almost $48B.
I think the payout has been 41% so far or $19.68B.
So, are they paid in full?
Or, what are the terms of the rest of their pay out?
I hope it works out.
mojo
It looks to me that it means $638M of the $3B 4/20/17 Distribution is going to Class 3 Senior Unsecured Creditors held in trust by Wilmington.
Good for them.
Only a page or two are issues of $200M+.
Nothing yet on CTs unless anyone sees a replacement CUSIP for the Junior Bonds that make up half the CTs.
Anyone have that CUSIP?
It looks like they're in Court tomorrow but the schedule can change.
Am I wrong?
Is there another list of Senior Unsecured positions that will be paid and their distribution amounts on the 20th with the Ex-Div date last February?
mojo
1:38
"Head is roarin' like a waterfall.
Give me everythin' or none at all.
You don't have to turn the sound up.
Babe, I want you from the ground up.
Baby, baby, you're the World to me."
Article: No More Government Bailouts
"Although the collapse of Lehman Brothers proved to be the largest bankruptcy in history, they were not saved because the U.S. Treasury believed that other major lending firms would pick up the pieces left and the overall industry would survive. However, in any instance, it should not be up to the U.S. government to decide which companies should live and which should die. The government should not be able to draw the line as to who gets help during a financial crisis and who does not, regardless of the industry and scenario. Giving the U.S. Treasury that much power hurts consumers as well as the businesses because they may not have proper judgement in what companies deserve to survive and get bailed out. The government should not play an integral part in any industry other than when it needs to enforce taxation and other regulations.
In return, banks and large private companies can not and must not be dependent on the U.S. government for financial security in the midst of a major financial crisis. This dependence on the U.S government may ultimately lead to business decisions that are not indicative of the best interests of actual business, but of the government, which demonstrates its unethical control over an industry.
Furthermore, because the U.S. government can not (and should not) spare every company that is on the brink of bankruptcy, it must choose what companies are worth saving which can ultimately lead to a bias. Because of this, companies could possibly be given the opportunity to escape bankruptcy due to possible internal motives of government officials. We can not have this type of bias in the US because it may possibly lead to bribery and an uneven playing field for businesses approved and enforced by the U.S. government. The only way to ensure that the government has no bias towards a specific company or industry is to remove the idea of a bailout in the first place. No bailouts means no bias, and a truly fair and capitalist economy for all."
Link: https://fordhamram.com/2017/04/09/no-more-government-bailouts/
mojo
Judge Chapman Schedule:
From 4/10 to 4/19, Lehman Bros (Chp 11) is in Court with the Federal Home Loan Bank of NY in an adversarial proceeding.
6 out of 8 days with a distribution on 4/20/17.
Chp 11 not Chp 7.
I hope it is restructuring and positive.
mojo
Also,
Did you remember a record or ex-div date being mentioned?
Thanks.
mojo
Interesting text, Camaro.
Is there any reasoning or justification for the $200M per "class" claim?
Am I understanding you correctly when you say "class" to mean each CT issue (K,L,N & M)?
Thank you.
mojo
Dimon: Something Wrong with US
Link - http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/dimon-warns-%E2%80%98something-is-wrong%E2%80%99-with-the-us/ar-BBzlWIc?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp
When did he think of that?
Just over the weekend?
mojo
Thank you, Marsal & Alvarez.
Have you packed your bags?
Good bye.
Does everyone still have a comfort pony to help deal?
Yep!
They can straighten it out.
If they can make money with them, they'll do it.
Regards.
Ran it again: $17.99 to $19.12 for the quarterly payments.
After 9 years, the 6% - 6.375% cumulative coupons are running payouts with 6% penalties at $14.34 - $15.24 per share.
The liquidation operation of Alvarez & Marsal has nothing to do with the NOLs.
Nothing.
Period.
Whatever assets have been sold by Alvarez & Marsal have been Court approved as are the creditors that have received the proceeds of such sales.
mojo
"Lehman Trustee Reports Substantial Progress in Winding Down Estate"
NEW YORK, Oct. 31, 2016 /PRNewswire/ -- James W. Giddens, Trustee for the liquidation of Lehman Brothers Inc. (LBI) under the Securities Investor Protection Act and chair of the Hughes Hubbard & Reed LLP Corporate Reorganization and Bankruptcy Group, has filed the 15th Interim Report with the Bankruptcy Court that details progress in winding down the estate, which is now in a phase of substantial completion.
"Significant progress continues in winding down the estate for the largest and most complex broker-dealer bankruptcy in history," Giddens said. "With close to $115 billion returned to customers and creditors, results have far exceeded any expectations at the beginning of this liquidation, and we are working diligently to add to that total and close the estate."
Most recently, the estate completed the fourth interim distribution to unsecured general creditors with allowed claims, bringing the cumulative payout on these allowed claims to 38 percent, or approximately $8.6 billion.
Additional distribution information:
Secured, priority and administrative creditors have received 100 percent distributions, and total distributions to all creditors total roughly $8.8 billion.
Customers have received $106 billion, fully satisfying the 111,000 customer claims, with most claims fulfilled within weeks of the liquidation.
Out of the more than 134,000 claims administered in this proceeding, only 427 disputed customer, secured, priority and general creditor claims remain, and they are subject to court proceedings and appeals. Resolving the claims, therefore, depends on court schedules and the positions of claimants who have disputed the Trustee's claim determination, and this may take considerable time. Related to these remaining claims, the Trustee is holding roughly $434 million in reserve.
The progress in the LBI liquidation would not have been possible without the assistance of the Securities Investor Protection Corporation and the Securities and Exchange Commission, the oversight of United States Bankruptcy Court, the Honorable Shelley C. Chapman, presiding, and the success of the Trustee's professionals at Hughes Hubbard & Reed LLP and Deloitte & Touche LLP.
The Trustee is represented by Hughes Hubbard & Reed LLP.
Link: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/lehman-brothers-inc-trustee-reports-substantial-progress-in-winding-down-estate-300353972.html
"Plan to Bail Out "Too Big to Fail" Banks Raises Skepticism
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/25/business/dealbook/plan-to-bail-out-too-big-to-fail-banks-raises-skepticism.html?_r=0
Video: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/11/leon-cooperman-the-world-is-all-crazy.html
Cooperman didn't like that JPM was fined for WAMU & Bear.
mojo
Leon Cooperman, on Squawkbox, forecasting the market:
"Is JPM responsible for what Bear Stearns and Lehman did many years ago before going bankrupt?"
Well, Mr. Cooperman, JPM was a very involved partner with both Lehman and Bear Stearns, if not a Guarantor and Trustee.
Where ever JPM has stepped into a financial fiduciary relationship with either Company, bankrupt or not, shouldn't we expect JPM to honor their commitment, especially with all the assistance JPM has received from the Government?
LOL!
mojo
Bank Settlement Cash Funding La Reza, etc.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/look-whos-getting-that-bank-settlement-cash-1472421204
Perturbed.
mojo
No.
Was Kuntz Pro Se?
Another?
Thanks.
mojo
Pro Se, cams.
Can you e-mail me the google+ link for LEHMQ/LEHNQ?
Thanks.
Good luck.
mojo
cotton?
Are you reading what I'm reading?
<<This delay was caused by an objection and a related appeal filed by a pro se litigant.>>
mojo