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But the statement is misleading, the shares went from 49 million to 120 million presplit, the statement says 10 million presplit to 120 million post split, that is wrong, the 10 million number is inaccurate and the "120 million post split" Is wrong.
The dilution as we've both stated happened prior to the RS, the division by 200 means nothing as the ratio remains the same, and value of shares did not change (at that moment anyway). We both know the 60 percent dilution happened but won't be realized until shares begin to trade at a normal multiple to a normal valuation. We had posters saying previously that this is a penny stock you can't talk PE ratios/ valuation/ profitability/ etc etc, but at 100 dollars a share???? TIMBERRRRRRRR.
Back to my point that statement is grossly inaccurate as it is currently stated.
Moderators can one of you explain the comment below that is on the Message board page just above the photo of Mr Lenfest and Mr Buffett. Prior to the split the available shares went from (approximate numbers) 49 million to 120 million due to the debt to shares conversion. Once the split happened those 120 million shares (float) turned into 600,000 shares available with authorized shares becoming 3,000,000. The comment below does not make sense nor is it accurate in my opinion.
TEVED just did a RS. The O/S was raised from 10 million pre split to 120,000,000 post split.
Oh Please, enough is enough, now PEG conference is going to start the spit hitting the fan, We all know PEG is NOT profitable. I also recall someone saying just wait until the shareholders conference and the shorts will implode and the stock price will fly high. None of that happened and None of it will happen, as you talk about no one is selling, you will also notice that NO ONE is buying either. No one is going to pay almost 100 dollars per share for a stock that makes no profit.
Also Joe I see you also posted recently your old line of dividend and NASDAQ. What is your time line for these to happen. NASDAQ is atleast 5 years away and dividend???? Not a chance. Dividends are paid from profit that the company is better suited to pay out instead of holding onto. Yet with no profit not much dividend now is there. Like I said before, only dividend will be a stock dividend further diluting the value. 600 thousand shares at 99 dollars a share has a market cap of 59.4 million dollars for a warehouse and negative earnings??
So much for the short conspiracy theory. What happened to all the shorts that had to cover????? But hold what you have and get more when you can????? Good Luck on that one. And lastly just what price will you have to lower to if you actually sell a share. Current price of 99.00 only valid if there is a buyer willing to pay that much, and since the float is so low, valuation is so high, so much for your windfall.
You knew this was coming: Why Jack, why do you say it is a good time to get into this stock.
Share Price 99.98 per share, unless you buy in even lots, just the fees alone add 10 percent to the cost. For those of you scraping your pennies to pick up a few shares when it was .19, going to take a lot longer for the 252 shareholders to scrape up an even lot. Volume will be stagnant to nil.
No word on financing as this latest 10K shows they are spending more per year than they have coming in.
Market cap is over 60 million dollars for a company that has negative net earnings.
One sector grew, another declined, yet expenses trumped them all.
Obviously PEG television is not, like I've said many times, is not profitable, cloud system has too many competitors, TEVE has limited exposure, and limited resources to fund R&D to compete with the big companies.
Expect either sale of telvue or forward split to reduce price, either way share price will plummet as there is no driving force that will cause this stock to rise thus increasing market cap into the ridiculous range. Anyone thinking of buying has to ask themselves what is the value I put on this company, then compare that to the profitable ones.
Now your turn, why would someone want to buy now, with company in question, finances in question, future in question, share price in question?????
Yes Jack, but look how much their expenses went up to gain that 20 percent, comparing to last year you have to disregard the impairment charge Telvue took in 2010. With out that, even with the 20 percent increase they lost:
3,242,949 in 2010 vs 3,493,732 2011, in otherwords they lost an additional 241,000 dollars on top of the additional income.
Their overall loss excluding the impairment charge rose 7.7 percent? Even more so the general and administrative expenses for their products increased 60 percent? Just wait until the new marketing director's salary is added to that in 1st Q.
Going to be another interesting year, with only 252 shareholders of record, there will no longer be any large swings in pps, and very little upward movement on share price. 99.98 is just too high a valuation to place on the company that continues to burn through cash.
Statement says that they have enough cash to get them through the next 12 months, take another look at their assets??
They have only 151,134 dollars in cash on 31 Dec 2011. Having a net loss of almost 3.5 million dollars equates to a little over 290,000 dollars net loss each month. Cash has to come from somewhere??
Maybe the vice president of Shenher realestate can tell you, or better yet, maybe Jack can find out. This website was never ever complete, never had a privacy statement, shipping and returns info etc, typical for how "mike" has run this business into the ground, although now questioning if there ever was a business. The pump and dump that he arranged (2 for 1 dividend), misleading or blatantly false PR's and 8K's all spelled doom from the beginning. Oh and Jack, how's that merger coming along with IBI?? Have you come to the realization that you and others have plenty of ammunition for a lawsuit??
Website is the least of his problems, if those that lost their money get together.
Just wait for it....
Do I have to explain dilution again? It doesn't matter who owns what but the value of the company the market places on it divided by total outstanding shares. Increase the shares with the same value equals less value per share, and in this case at least 60 percent drop in value per share. IHUB showing 3.00 / 10.00 bid/ask, a sale for 5 dollars??. It's not a conspiracy, its dilution. Until something happens to prove me wrong, I stand by the word DILUTION....
Scarcity equals Value only when that value makes sense, a company with negative earnings does not have much value regardless of who owns it.
WHAT??
First, once split happens you cannot go back and buy presplit shares, your premise is incorrect, and quite confused.
Secondly, I already stated that due to the increase from 49 million shares to 122 million shares causes a 60 percent dilution (post split the ratio remains the same) So now with ask at 10.00 if that remains, dilution was even greater than 60 percent.
Thirdly, Joe, what will happen in a few months you can't believe? Actually, I think I know now, you won't believe the stock price being so low.
Fourth, PEG is not and has not been profitable, Cloudcasting competition is fierce, new products must be developed using their R&D budget, ooops what R&D budget....
And finally, what about my figures that you considered a crock? Would like you to finally explain at least one of your derogatory statements.
you are correct, got a little ahead of myself, thanks, time sure does fly
That's why I said the 10Q is more important than the 10K, the 1st quarters report is due by 15 April.
It was never about the debt, it was the ability to repay that debt, or lack of ability to pay. Now it's about funding future operations as they have yet to be profitable. We'll see in the next few days when the next set of financials come out, more importantly then the 10K is the 10Q for the latest.
Well let me explain to you the crock: Pre split after the debt converstion there were approximately 122 million shares after the 1 for 200 reverse split that made available shares approximately 610,000. Now pps was .4999 pre split time by 200 equals 99.98. So can you explain what is the crock, and what will happen to TEVE in the next few months that you "can't believe".
Joe, number of .10 is an example which value of which post split would be 20 dollars, stock should open, like you said, near 100. That's a pretty good profit, take it, wait for the inevitable drop, and buy back in. At 100 dollars a share you will no longer see the wild 60 percent plus swings we've seen in the past. Like I've said before with a pps that high, you will see minor moves of 1-2 percent daily if that. Valuation also comes into play, like I've said, 100 dollars a share times the 610 thousand available shares post split gives this company a market cap of 61 million dollars, this for a company that has negative earnings per share. Expect a forward split or an increase in available shares, or a sold sign outside the front door.
To raise capital, telvue could release the other 2.4 million authorized shares and raise up to in theory 240 million dollars, of course with the diluted effect it would be half that much or less.
I don't bring negative news, all my points are from the data coming from the company, it's all in the interpretation.
But since you asked, if I had an average pps of say .10 i'd sell and take my profit. I don't see much upside now that the pps will be near 100 dollars a share. Personally, unless there is a forward stock split, pps will fall greatly. Other thing I believe may happen is Mr Lenfest selling this company. Why do I say that, he's stopped financing the company,as I've stated many times, he now owns 91 percent and will easily be able to sell. He's over 80 and concentrating on his philanthropy, everything leading up to now show's this company will be more valuable to him by selling, all his debt was given to him as shares at .35 anything less he gets the tax deduction anything more personal profit. A buyout makes sense for both him and Telvue, it allows another company to finance telvue going forward, and he can concentrate on more important things at this stage in his life. Just my opinion. Thanks for asking.
So where will Telvue be in a few months that you just can't believe?
Time for the obvious as your posts begs the question once again, WHAT??:
Telvue is a pink sheet stock, has been, and will remain a pink sheet stock. It's in the 8K
Telvue has made money, but in order to do so have spent more than they made. Its in the financials.
Debt could not be paid with internally generated funds, so they had to resort to the debt for shares route. It's in the proxy.
Company was in debt because they didn't make enough to cover expenses, so how are they going to continue operations while continuing to rack up deficits? Shares as currency?? Its in the proxy.
And lastly,you say "I can't believe where they will be in a few months". So where will they be in a few months? That way we can all revisit your post and really see where they are.
As per the 8K, the symbol of teved.pk will remain for 20 business days after that it will revert back to teve.pk, I would not be surprised if it does not trade again until after it reverts back to teve.pk. The question is this, how close will pps be to 99.80, presplit x 200, when it does start trading?. Until it does, there is no point in discussing Bid/ask prices.
How do you figure, did you not read they need NET income ie profitability?? Also they need a certain amount of investors holding ROUND Lots, ie 100 or more shares. You just stated earlier that there are only 250 investors, and how many of them now own post split 100 shares? That does not qualify for listing?? Did you see the fees required to pay?? They don't have the cash.
How can you be excited about dividends and forward splits? First a forward split does not do anything for the shareholder, only makes it more attractive in price to the common investor, but your value remains the same. And where do you see a dividend coming? Some Billion dollar companies with Millions in cash barely pay a dividend and you think a company in financial trouble is going to pay out cash instead of spending it to expand or R&D. Doubtful.
2012 NASDAQ Listing Requirements:
https://listingcenter.nasdaqomx.com/assets/nasdaq_listing_req_fees.pdf
You said "the short man caused this" What is the "this" that you are talking about??????
Wait a minute, Mr Lenfest did not cause this? He's the majority stock holder, it could not have happened without his approval. Also it was he who would not renegotiate notes and forced TEVE management to go this route, because as the proxy says, they cannot afford to pay the interest on those debts. It was he who refused to keep throwing money at this company. Yes no more debts but dilution has started. Market cap shows that teve will be way overpriced and stock will plummett.
Also you keep talking about NASDAQ, I already showed you the requirements to be listed on the NASDAQ, that is 3 to five years minimum from now, if ever. You also previously talked about a cusip change, and now once they get the split figured out, the stock will remain on the pinks as the same ticker symbol, not much confidence there, you mean they couldn't even bring it back to a .ob stock.
And what dividend??? Since they could not afford to pay the interest on their debt the only dividend will be in shares which systematically diminishes each shares value?
One week until the financials, then we can see what will happen next.
Wondering who has been told to either bring their share total up to atleast 100 or be cashed out. That's coming, look for it in the mail soon.
The problem is post split share price of 100 dollars per share. First, 100 dollar stocks are not within reach for most people to buy the usual 100 share lot. I have a feeling those investors that have odd lots, less than 100 will be cashed out, followed by a forward split.
But the other problem is you will have 3 million shares outstanding at 100 dollars so you will have market capitalization for this company with no profit at 300 million dollars. That is unsustainable, the pps will plummet.
Dilution will take place but at the penny level no one cares, at 100 dollar a share, market cap is extremely important.
Now at 100 dollar per share, do you really believe you are going to get even a 100 percent gain???? Not even close. You had a much better chance of large gains staying in the pennies and hoping for a P&D.
Could be any number of reasons, could be they need it to attract new investors, or could be positioning themselves to be more attractive as a take over target.
Found it, but still does not affect the financing until such time that this capacity is being utilized providing additional revenue. Also, previous points about R&D are still valid. Like we've all said, we'll see. For others the link is below.
http://www.telvue.com/2012/02/09/gigantic-storage/
Good to compare, but where did you hear about the 200 TB increase? I could not find that.
First, there is a ton of competition in the OTT and Cloud market. Take a look at this link(s) for an upcoming OTT conference:
http://www.xmediaresearch.com/ottcon/agenda.htm
http://www.xmediaresearch.com/ottcon/speakers.htm
I don't see any TELVUE speakers, i may have missed them, but they may have people in attendance. Also a company I previously mentioned, Brightcove, will be at the above conference. ONe of the speakers is also the CEO of ROKU, would be interesting to hear what he has to say.
Problem with TEVE, at the present time, is financing, the technology continues to grow rapidly as we all know. The question is how will Telvue's CEO position itself to compete in the future. Not having the internal ability to pay interest on notes payable is problematic in obtaining further financing, thus I believe TEVE will either be bought out, which may not be a bad thing, or do another public stock offering. Anyway, I do not see them currently having the ability to properly conduct R&D to keep up with the competition. I could be wrong if outside private investors appear.
Just by googling Cloud and OTT companies you will find the competition many companies having their own patents or patent pending technology.
Also it seems TEVE is maintaining its concentration on PEG, granted they are partners with ROKU, but public access TV is not nor has it ever been profitable. Their Cloud is up and coming yet competition, again, is fierce. They need to expand their technology to support all forms of video support and their platforms or get out and sell their product more aggressively. The future will tell, but I have to go back to the financing issues. It takes money to make money. Maybe Jack will come back with positive news but that will only be backed up by the financials throughout the year.
From the above link under the "sponsoring" tab, contains a list of possible TEVE's customers but also their competitors:
Hundreds of the most innovative media and entertainment companies have sent attendees to OTTCON the past three years. Here is just a quick sampling of some of the companies you will meet there...
ABC
AT&T
BBC
Blinkx
Boxee
Broadcom Corporation
CableLabs
Cablevision Systems
CBS
Comcast
Cox Communications
DIRECTV
DISH Network, LLC
Disney
Dreamworks Studios
Entone
Entropic Communications
ESPN Networks
FOX Cable Networks
Google, Inc.
Harmonic Inc.
HBO
Hewlett Packard
Intel
Metro Goldwyn Mayer
Microsoft
Motorola
Movie Network Channel
NBC Universal
MPAA
Panasonic
Popbox
Rogers Cable
Roku
Sezmi
Silicon Image
Sony Electronics
SureWest
Swisscom
TBS
Thomson
TiVO
Toshiba
Time Warner Cable
Turner Broadcasting Systems, Inc.
Verizon
Walt Disney Pictures
Yahoo!
....and many more!
So what is "Mike" up to these days, According to market watch he's the vice president of Shenher Real Estate and Mortgage Company,
Their website(below) has a copyright of 2005-2012, I don't remember Mr Shenher ever being associated with the real estate and mortgage company, but only his past insurance company.
But now he's the Vice President? So much for CPOW. Maybe if you write their real estate company you might get answers to your CPOW questions.
http://shenherrealty.point2agent.com/
Ok, so the float increases dropping value 60% as I previously posted, we finally agree, float increase equals dilution. Second, once the debt is gone, how will TEVE continue to finance the operation of the company, by increasing authorized shares to 600,000,000 pre split or 3 million post split, IF the board decides to conduct the split. If not they'll have 478 million shares to utilize without shareholder approval. A company cannot continue to rely on investors if investors cannot buy the shares, therefore this 9 percent float is only temporary. I'd expect another stock offering to the public to raise funds.
I've already explained that jack, see earlier posts, i'm running out of ways to explain, The reverse split does not dilute as the percentages remain the same pre and post split, yet the increase in shares from 49 million to 122 million pre split is where the dilution comes from. If the shares split at 49 million the post split float would be 245000, now with the increase post split will be 600,000 in the float. That's called dilution
Thanks Jack, and if he says no then ask him why he is not just extending the current notes or renegotiating those notes, why is he diluting yours and others shares?
I said little progress not no progress. They have, as jack posted a few sales but not many. They hired a new marketer, why? because they are trying to improve. But it's obvious each sale is not generating very much income based on the list of customers versus the annual income. Expenses growing exponentially. Dig into the financials and you'll see they have to do something different to make that profit. But again the conversation is on dilution based on the proxy, it will happen.
Financials, hiring of new personnel, more overhead, very little progress. Proxy stating they do not have the internally generated funds to pay the interest on the current debt. As you know 10K due out end of this month and 10Q due out shortly thereafter. The conversation though is on dilution, and that will happen regardless.
Thought I already explained that, ownership of common shares do not matter. Once this company becomes profitable you will then concern yourself with earnings per shares and market valuation. The difference between 49 million and 122 million shares is quite a bit. Let's put a value on this company of 49 million dollars, divide that by the number of outstanding shares,
49 divided by 49 is 1 dollar value per share
49 divided by 122 is .40 cents per share
Therefore you have dilution and you just lost 60 percent of your value only because the amount of shares increased. Can't make it any more simpler than that.
Who owns the shares does not matter when you consider valuation / dilution due to the increase in shares. But increase in ownership by Mr Lenfest is discussed at the bottom of this post. I see several possible scenarios happening:
1) Authorized shares increased to 600 million to facilitate debt conversion and other activities as mentioned in the proxy; yet split does not happen, as per proxy:
"If this proposal is approved, there will be no impact on stockholders until the Board determines to implement the Reverse Stock Split"
Therefore, the Board of Directors proposes that the Certificate of Incorporation be amended to increase the number of authorized shares of Common Stock to 600,000,000 shares in order to be able to consummate the Debt Conversion Agreement as well as for the additional reasons noted herein.
So if split does not happen then you now have the potential for plenty of dilution:
2)If the reverse split does happen then this takes place, from the proxy:
"The Reverse Stock Split would likely increase the number of stockholders who own odd lots (less than 100 shares)."
in My opinion this statement is there for only one reason: Reverse split, odd lots less than 100 will be cashed out. No other reason for it. Then followed by a forward split so shares can be used as previously stated.
3) What I foresee actually happening is Mr Lenfest is positioning himself, just like he did with his cable company, to sell. He's stopped putting money into it, increasing stake of the company to 90+ percent via the debt reduction. Reducing total Authorized shares (if split) to 3 million shares, actual available shares to 600,000. Will now be very easy for him to sell. What that means for current shareholders we'll find out soon enough.
All have a great weekend.
negative jack, I thought you read the proxy, so to help you out here's more from the proxy:
pg 5,:
As of December 30, 2011, the number of shares into which the $20,941,000 Notes and accrued and unpaid interest would be converted is 73,172,949 shares of Common Stock. This number of shares would slightly increase over time as a result of the accrual of interest on the outstanding debt.
continued on pg 6: Impact on Stockholders of Approval or Disapproval of this Proposal
The substantial increase in the number of outstanding shares of Common Stock will have a dilutive effect on the Common Stock of the Company.
So Jack, add 73+ million shares to the current 49 million, and this is not the only place the word dilution is mentioned. I'll leave it up to you to read it again. Therefore, if they conduct this restructuring and delay the reverse split, you are most definitely going to see your shares plummet due to this dilution.
Apples and Oranges Jack, The quarterly and annual reports for all companies contain forward looking statements as to the managements belief as to what may or may not happen in the future. Therefore they contain a safe harbor statement so these forward looking statements are not considered as absolute.
A proxy does not have a safe harbor statement for a reason because it is specific in nature explaining proposed action required to be voted on by the shareholders. Statement made in the proxy are specific explanations as to why they are proposing the action to be voted on. Thus the reason you have the proposal, the reason for the request, and the effect of the action taken.
The proxy statements I previously quoted are fact based on the assessments of your CEO and the board of directors explaining to the shareholders they have a financing problem and this is their way of hopefully correcting the situation until further financing can be found.
Remember the first part is to dilute shares by almost 2/3. 49 million to 129 million and possibly more for the interest. That's just the beginning, you can ignore the facts that's fine but concentrating on the "short" issue is very short sighted as to the ongoing concern of this company.
as far as your last sentence, I doubt that very much, but that doesn't matter, just wanted your take on why the specific comments are in the proxy if Mr Lenfest was still financing this company. Why are they worried about not being able to pay the interest from internally generated funds? Why isn't another note provided to TEVE? Why aren't the notes renegotiated? Why are they looking for other finance sources when you have a billionaire financing? I've already stated my reasons, just looking for your opinion as to why the restructuring / dilution is taking place if Mr Lenfest is still their "bank". No need to comment like we've both said, we'll see in the next few months what the financial stability is of TEVE.
No spin at all, reread the proxy, he isn't renewing the debts, he's no longer providing any funding to Telvue, thus the statements in reference to the reason for the debt restructuring, I've already mentioned my reasoning in previous posts. Feel free to revisit them.
Good for mr lenfest, now that he's no longer throwing money at telvue,as seen by the debt restructuring and proxy, he needs another more profitable project to take up his time and money.
My posts yesterday explains the problems of dilution and share price increase along with the more than likely scenario of not conducting a 1 for 200 share split. But of course they were ignored, that's ok, in a few months I'll be telling you I told you so.