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I understand but what exactly makes you excited ? Since you have been here for a while you know company's track record at executing on announced deals is non-existent. Doe sthis mean any stock you buy you are then for the rest of your life optimistic about ?I am just curious- I have never met anyone excited about a stock with no bid !
Looking at their last financials they received $1.8 million from convertible debt- then issued $5.8 million in shares to settle that debt.
This is besides $3 million raised in common stock sales.
Shares issued for services etc is in the millions ( wonder how much compensation taxes accrued for officers) though we dont know what they sold for.
So $4.8 million hard cash. Converible Noteholder apparently made $4 million ( lots of reasons to keep the game going.) So while maybe not untypical of convertible note holders to make this profit, and mining is an expensive business, seeing many millions of dollars for "servces" certainly I think would make anyone wonder considering the dismal track record CFO has of meeting projections.
I agree though 4 year resriction + timing of latest reverse a bit odd.
Those are the only reasons ? Then why this stock and not another ? Considering the dismal failure of this company dont you think someone shouldnt be promoting this to unsuspecting investors ?
Why sorry for me ? Don't see what the point is.Everyone has lost on this stock except perhaps the insiders. My question meant to understand situation better. Why not address the questions ?
Should be a good game !
Why do you avoid all questions ? You seem to agree company has accomplished nothing in several years, what gives you confidence they will achieve something in the future ? Is that such a strange question ?
The filings contain a lot of gibberish, like someone with no business background using a template but not really understanding the words. Negative assets ? Claiming they have a mortgage-lead business - if they have a "business" why no revenue ?
Nothing wrong with being an optimist. How long have you been a shareholder ? Do you feel it is correct to buy shares based on information that isnt publicly available Since you speak to CEO, is there any indication of mental disturbance ? Just trying to find out reason for inane press releases that come out year after year. Since you evidently know the company quite well, it is curious no answer to basic questions.
My questions are simple, what is the objective basis for a positive opinion on this stock? Isnt it dangerous for someone to promote a stock (a) with no revenue except $25 (b) no cash (c) track record of press releases announcing business initiatives that never happen (d) financial statements that claim to be GAAP but are not (e) issuance of millions of shares to acquire a "mortgage lead business" that to date hasnt generated $1 in revenue(f) no bid price for stock. This isnt a question of one opinion or the other, but of some semblance of reality in due diligence on a stock even a speculative one.
Or as I asked, could someone please explain to me what is the purpose of repeatedly being positive on a stock for years without any support for that opinion ? Am I missing something ? What purpose is served by someone being positive or negative on a stock without giving any reasons ?
How on earth absent receiving inside information would you know for sure they are receiving funding ? Does CEO take shareholder calls then release non-public information? Is it right to promote a stock with no track record and no bid price to unsuspecting investors? If CEO cant even prepare proper financial statements what leads you to beieve he has the skills to execute on a $500 million deal ?
Does he really have an MBA ? Cant seem to track down where he got it from.
Hi Les,
1. Conventional Financing- No, I do not know of any bank in the United States in the current regulatory environment that would extend credit in any form to this company. Almost any bank manager looking at this company who know his business will tell you , I ran this by a banker I know, he burst out laughing at the concept a bank could make a loan in this environment to such a company.Banks do not have the same leeway for their portfolio loans that they used to.
2. No I dont know what is discussed behind the scenes, heck, we cant even get basic information from the company in a timely manner in my opinion.
3.My post raised the questions which at this point I dont see as unreasonable- and I believe of course there were some people who made honest mistakes in being positive on the stock or who were inexperienced perhaps. But I am wondering when in the face of common sense and the company's track record some people kept rather fanatically insisting on very improbable scenarios what the reason for this is- or attacked those who mentioned the potential for another reverse, or kept defending their famous "NI43-101" press releases.I tried to give company benefit of the doubt at first as well. So I am just wondering here in order to better understand the situation so when I come across again in the future I can speculate better.And no I am not questioning the motivations of anyone in particular,just a general question.
---Though the CFO of this company may not just be incomptent to achieve objectives ( which now is a fact), there may be more to this picture than meets the eye.Looking at the cash flow statement the net amount raised and (and made) by the convertible people certainly is not chicken feed.
4. Excellent question about Jo Grant. I would add to that, has Jo Grant and/or principals been recepient of shares in the past that they have filed 144's on but company did not disclose related party issues ? Sorry but I am just more and more sceptical about this company.
Les it just is odd people being fanatic about issues concerning this company when common sense says the opposite. They arent raising $3 million by any sort of conventional financing whether equity or bank loans, not in (a) current banking environment (b) curent market for junior mining companies (c) with a DTC chill.(d) CFO's track record.Yes that is my opinion !
I dont mean to be disrespectful but of what use is this type of post ? You refuse to provide any reason past on experience for this stock to move forward. Nor do you give any reason to believe BTDG can pull off a $500 million deal.
I realize you may be down on your investment and wish to recover. Only way to do that is a reverse split of massive proportions, new management, then average down your cost - and even then probably a 1 in 5000 chance of recovering your investment.
If you cant post objective reasons for promoting this company, you run the risk of unsuspecting investor buying stock and losing their money because of something you post.
I am all for being positive and giving people the benefit of the doubt, but it has now been several years of misleading press releases and lack of achievement by this company. They cant even open a hot dog stand and make money.
I would also ask the question about motivations of some people who made posts promoting this stock based on the company's misleading press releases. Even after all the discussion about the NI43-101 issues, the coming reverse split, etc etc- some people were still mentioning hundreds of million $ in value, or the mill opening around the corner.Were these people just inexperienced in general business or penny stocks ? Did they have other motivations to recover their positon from new unsuspecting investors ?
I am flabbergasted to imagine for one moment anyone with a smattering of knowledge of the American business environment imagining any bank in the United States lending to this company.So did people post this as a possibility ? ( I dont know answer just posing question).
SEC engineering office wil catch up with these guys at some point, my prediction remains this company will eventually de-register.
Based on prior track record the stock returning to sub penny range seems a distinct probability though I am not sure in June- I would guess by September.
I would forget mill re-opening this summer, who would give them $3 million they say necessary to do so ?
The sad thing about those press releases portraying these mines as worth hundreds of millions of dollars is not only were the press releases ineffective, but some people believed those releases.This is more of an issue than the company doing a reverse as not much one can do about the reverse- but anyone who bought shares based on those press releases and then lost money certainly was mislead.
Why do you refuse to answer the basic questions ? If in the past the CEO unable to generate revenue, profits, investment, or execute any business initiative - then what comfort does that give you for the future ? Please just show me ANY reasonable indication the CEO is able to put together and execute a $500 million transaction in an industry he has no experience in ?
How can you just dismiss the company's 3 year dismal performance as not indicative of their ability to move forward ?
I am not sure how to break the news to you but there is no billion dollar value, or do we even know if 100 million in value.Imagine it this way- someone sells a house to you saying it is worth $100,000, but rehabilitation costs are $80,000 so what is house worth, $20,000 or $100,000 ? Then imagine that the local city building code may take 3 years for approval, and then another 5 years to finish building to maybe get approval.So then there is cost of time value of money.And in any case CGFI doesnt own the mines but has an option on mines for a price it cant afford.
Dilution a foregone conclusion for companies in this sector without cash flow. The trick is to know how to add value, and market the stock , to add value faster than dilution. Clearly the CFO unable to do this-enough time has passed that in my opinion one can make that judgement.
There is some value to these mines, but hardly anywhere near approaching what there press releases said.Trading stocks like this is sheer speculation, but wild press releases certainly a red flag management doesnt have the vision that it can implement.
I think you have simply been mislead by the press releases- the value of the assets in the ground depends on many factors, not least cost of extraction and CAPEX required. Without that information you cant assign a value to the "assets" in the ground.That is one of reasons regulators will jump all over this company if its disclosures get reviewed- and shows how inept and inexperienced this CFO is for this market sector.
As far as reason for reverse since they still had unissued shares,guess we will find out some day.
I have a question, how is it that no matter how improbable the scenario this company presents, some people still seem to believe their projections ?
I think you have simply been mislead by the press releases- the value of the assets in the ground depends on many factors, not least cost of extraction and CAPEX required. Without that information you cant assign a value to the "assets" in the ground.That is one of reasons regulators will jump all over this company if its disclosures get reviewed- and shows how inept and inexperienced this CFO is for this market sector.
As far as reason for reverse since they still had unissued shares,guess we will find out some day.
I have a question, how is it that no matter how improbable the scenario this company presents, some people still seem to believe their projections ?
Your optimism is nice, please do finally respond to the simple question- please name 1 single positive accomplishment of this company the last 3 years : revenue ? cash flow ? investment raised ? ANY business initiative accomplished ?
With this company's track record do you think anyone should be promoting this stock to unsuspecting investors ?
Or simply please explain how a company can claim to be in the mortgage-lead generation busienss, and issue shares to acquire such a business,yet it doesnt generate even $1 in revenue ?
Or how is it a company that is traded on the OTC evidently has no concept of preparing even unaudited US GAAP statements ?
How can a company with $25 in revenue expect to put togetehr a $500 million deal ?
Please name 1 accomplishment of this company in 3 years- revenue ? cash flow ? stock price ?
They claim to be in mortgage lead generation business, what does "being in business" consist of ?
Last I looked their most recent revenue $25.
Well you asked for opinions- no I do not think has has arranged for financing , but I think he probably has some wacky idea underway that prompted this second reverse split.Second, I am unsure why anyone would think someone would give him $3 million to re-activate a mill that doesnt seem to have any steady ore to mill.In any case still unknown when they may receive a permit without conditions.
With all due respect I think what you may not be familiar with is that the first and foremost difficulty in permitting is the combination of politics and ideology of the regulators,not science. While there may be unreasonable regulators to be sure, they have their own dynamics, just is what it is in the United States.This wont be changing.
Second, while there have been advances in certain areas as you point out, the permitting process is inherently time-consuming and uncertain. To give an example- in the United States there is a system of "patenting" mining claims. However in 1990's secretary of interior publicly stated regardless of the law, he block new "patents" ( essentially making mining claim private) being issued.
Third, how does company approach the process ? They had application rejected so they re-made application, that is how I understand it. Does this give confidence they understood local permitting dynamics ? I havent reviewed the permit paperwork in detail, but just glancing I noticed a simple baseline study that is normally first thing one does the company didnt do in a particular instance.
- My point is that the permit prcoess is difficult for any company in most parts of the country.How the company manages this process and makes projection is a different story. And even if they get permit this year or next without conditions, company needs the savvy to manage finances and investor relations to raise capital to make a go of this project. I see little evidence of a trck record of meeting objectives. If you do, please do let me know if I am incorrect in this opinion.
There may be some potential value here, but this management doesnt appear comptent to realzie that value, and would take years to do so. Until then at best a short term complete speculation on buying stock to sell to true believers.
I still believe they will de-register the stock within 12 months.
Ok will pay attention, in response :
1.No I dont think all investors idiots, just some seem to hang on to thought company might make it contrary to all results. Some just dont know enough about the sector to make intelligent judgements and dont seem to want to learn. ( I dont know tech sector, so if I just speculated in that sector, I certainly would listen to those with more experience).
-Look at the track record It took me several posts to explain the amount of convertibles outstanding and effect on outstanding shares. If people speculating on a stock and dont understand basic accounting, then who isnt paying attention ?
-Others have also posted abut the NI 43-101 issue, yet some supporters kept saying the company had a NI43-101 report !
I can give example after example, why shoot the messenger ? Just a penny stock anyway, they could have had just as much leverage without silly projections that in my opinion they knew they couldnt meet.
2.Potential ? We have little way to judge potential. We dont have up to date pre feasibility or feasibility study, we have no reasonable projections on exploration and development costs, very little actual information on these properties. On top of that they dont own the properties anyway. yes is gold and silver in those properties, but do we know if they can be economically extracted ? Is company structured to raise necessary capital ? Does CFO have track record of achieving objectives ? CFO not only needs $3 million for mill, but millions more to survive and explore the nerby mines.Can anyone honestly say that the track record of this company justifies a multi-million investment ?
3. Court System Make Shareholders whole ? Not enough money here for class action lawsuit, doubt CFO could be brought to trial and forced to payback shareholders, but if you believe there is some basis and probability for this happening please do let us all know how.
Even if they get permit, wont help current shareholders.Simply 2 reverse splits removes that potential forever. I am not sure why this is so hard to understand. Just basic math.Just what happens in pennyland.Except in this case once 144 filings reviewed by someone there may be more to problem than poor management.
Certainly reasonable questions.So as I posted before, initially just saw this company as a speculation since apparently had control of a mill, and there were some nearby mines. Glanced at company website which seemed a bit infantile, decided they probably would go through a massive reverse, so forgot about.
Looked at again and thought worth taking a flyer. Cant do extensive research on every stock, and certainly stock like this mroe research one does usually more speculative it seems. Since I have speculated on lots of mining stocks I had some basis for comparison.
However thought I would take more seriously so spent time trying to understand company to see if worth taking a larger position. More I looked at more inept the CFO seemed, then he topped it off by making silly projections and inane press releases showing total disrepect to shareholders.He doesnt seem to understand timely disclosure nor general SEC position on junior exploration comapanies nor much about this sector.
This stock seems to generate some true believers who no matter how much CFO wipes out shareholders, ,isses projections, etc, some people keep believing CFO has some chance to make a real company. Everyone entitled to their opinions, but it is not unreasonable to ask what they are based on.
Now it is curiosity what is next inane step CFO will take, and also learning experience how the true believers think.With all respect,shareholders wiped out pure and simple.
This probably one of best silver plays out there- growing production profile, with recent acquisition building market cap so more institutions will take a look at.
I predict eventually they pick up nearby mines,and maybe a Canadian silver producer. They have patience.
This is risky business so their experience counts. Only criticism is Investor Relations not as effective as one might hope.
My own opinion is this is a $10 to $15 stock within 2 to 3 years.
I am curious why you keep throwing out improbable scenarios, what for ? All objective evidence based on results and company's own disclosures show that it is highly improbable this company can raise $3 million.
I tried to give benefit of the doubt to the company but as I have reviewed this company's disclosures, and actual results,in my opinion CFO has neither the ability nor experience to meet objectives- and worse, their business projections are unreasonable anyway.And worse, untimely, incomplete and misleading disclosures by this CFO destroy any credibility he could have with any serious investor.
Is there any company with a similar profile that has raised $3 million in the last 18 months ?
DTC chill, negative working capital, no reserves, no property ownership, CFO owning voting majority, missed all projections for years, evidently still some outstanding convertibles.
Wonder what current share count is today ?
Got to admit scam is a word many throw out there, but apparently people understand in different ways. From what I can see CEO is so far out in left field he actually believes he is "in" business, and believes any wacky person or deal that comes across his desk.The strange supporters on this board who seem determined to avoid any objective evaluation of CEO or this company.
I mean really, they show in recent financial statements $25 in revenue. And yet claim to be putting together a $500 million deal.
Oh come on, if you honestly believed that this management has a shot at $500 million you would be mortgaging your house, pawning the family jewells, and buying as much stock as you could.
You havent given a single answer that indicates CEO is competent or has in 3 years accomplished a single thing.The only possible explanation for your continued praise of this company is you bought some stock and somehow wish to get out of the position.I am being objective, can you show one single fact of the last 3 years that justifies your confidence in this company ?
I admire perseverence, and my compliments that you are polite on this board,. But before anyone else loses money on this CEO, do you think it is morally correct to praise this company ?
One has to admit this has an amusing aspect . Reading the recently filed documents I can just imagine the peple who prepared all sitting around a table feeling important talking about they have a $500 million L/C. Then they prepare documents which look good except they dont understand the basic terms in the first place. I doubt they truly understand difference between "standby L/C" and "irrevocable" L/C.They have non-sensical terms in the agreement that normally never appear in a business contract.
Just imagine the bank asking to see BTDG financials to judge their ability to perform and they see $25 in revenue and negative assets.
Anyway seems no more investors being harmed any more,and they are having fun pretending to do deals.Then to top it off, supporters on this site who absolutely refuse to give 1 single example of something that works at this company the last 3 years, but claim company is going some place and has good CEO.
No that wont be feasible. Forgetting the fact they dont own the mines yet, even if they did there is no bank in North America I am aware of that would give this company a loan on these properties.
First, most bank debt financing for mining companies is provided by highly-specialised departments that require a feasibility or at least pre-feasibility study. For junior mining companies all types of financing difficult to come buy- over 600 companies on Vancouver venture-exchaneg face de-listing this year.
Second, the properties discussed certainly do have some underground workings and some historical data- but they are some years away from production for a variety of reasons, whether 5, 10 or even 15 years I dont know,but certainly several years at best. And that requires several million dollars at least in exploration and development work.
The mill getting a permit sounds nice and certainly is positive- but simply they have no mill feed as far as we know.
Third, this CFO has lost credibility with the press releases he put out this year.No serious mining finance whether from bank or brokerage house would consider this company.
But where is the ore to feed the mill ? Even with potential of mill passing permit, does CFO track record indicate he can raise funds and deliver shareholder value ?
So what is prediction based on ? They cant get conventional financing, they cant get convertble financing for
$3 million, so they are left with same path of raising $100k or so per quarter to keep lights on. Private placement difficult with DTC chill.
The other issue is who would put up $3 million at this stage with no ore for the mill ?
This filing is breathtaking in misrepresentation. I have to read it again because it is so far beyond the pale. Like most of the documents being presented it uses boilerplate language, but the people involved evidently involved dont understand what the basic terms means - so when you read it it doesnt make sense.
Before commenting in any detail on what purports to be a Letter of Credit, do you not find it strange there is no details on how is it that BTDG suddenly owns some additional mining claims ? No information as to what that ownership consists of ? That $500 million would be committed by a major world bank to a deal involving BTDG ?
The other possibility which I have raised before is that CEO is somewhat mentally disturbed or intellectually challenged. Just look at the confidentiality agreement filed- it could not have been prepared by a competent lawyer, or any experienced businessman. The wording often doesnt make any sense.
The 8k form being filed is absurd, it is a form for a SEC reporting company. Who does CEO think he is fooling ?
As usual BTDG filings dont make any sense, and just confirm CEO in over his head in this role.
Non confidentiality agreement - Not really sure why this is being filed but (a) obviously not drafted by a competent lawyer as the wording often makes no sense and is illogical (b) if it needed to be filed it is being filed 4 months after the fact !
Right for CEO to used BTDG shares to settle personal issues- this board approval for legal counsel is correctly material information, but what information it is ! Looking closely means CEO is so invaluable, he can direct BTDG shares to be issued to settle personal debts.
Last a proxy statement evidently for some shares BTDG owns ( wonder where this shows on balance sheet). Not sure why this is being filed or what relevance is.
The CEO is just confused but he must try had to dream up these things.
Last financial statement showed $25 in revenue.
Last but not least BTDG continues to file on 8k forms which are for SEC reporting companies not non-reporting companies.
Not sure what you mean convertible debt he couldnt manage- nothing to manage as once agreement signed terms were there for all to see. It is the overall management and strategy that havent been a success.
I have written the same that there doesnt appear to be any current source of mill feed. As you have written this is a long term business.If the mill is permitted that has some promotional value which all sub penny junior exploration stage companies need.
However my opinion is company is too far gone and management too far out of it that it wont do company really much good for permit to be received. As we have discussed their press releases alone will at some point come back to haunt them.I can just imagine SEC engineering office asking for details on the "$9 million in orders" they have promoted let alone the whole NI43-101 issue.
Amazing CEO tells you such things. Under fair disclosure rules if information given to one shareholder should be given to all. Though if not SEC reporting company not subject to same rules, but providing inside information always incorrect.
However again you dont answer the questions about this company. What have they accomplished in 3 years ? How are you so positive about a company that never achieves anything ? Can you ask CEO how is it he feels he is competent to be a CEO when he never accomplishes anything ? Would you hire such a person ? Of course not, so why are you so positive on this company ?
Wonder what these shares could possibly be worth now ?
What does company have ? OTC QB listing but a DTC chill; probably SEC comment letter coming down the pipe if not worse ; control of a mill but a 1st and 2nd against; a pending lawsuit and judgement winding its way through the courts; an option on properties it cant possibly afford ; a possible permit which may result in some cash from a bond reduction, but unkown what cash costs will be to comply with conditions being removed ( once they inspect site who knows what they will find).
Piece of cake ! But no one could do worse than current CFO, and a new person would at least see reality and deal with it.But old shareholders wiped out that is for sure.
Then you will pay more but no matter this is a good log term play
This stock just looks better, and better, and better !!
Looks better and better !