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Why would an end consumer want H2 at their home? It would be way too costly. Possibly cars in the future, but a ways off as there is little infrastructure.
You stated it would be an issue for homeowners' appliances. If they are not our customers, then how is it an issue? The H2 would be pulled off the pipeline to service businesses.
Jack, if you actually listened Andy stated that we were strictly B to B and not direct to consumer, so this is a non-issue.
I think we should look at them as I think they are open to license or a possible buyout if they feel it has merit. You are right there so much innovation going on in this space everything could be obsolete in 5 years. It must make it hard to contract these 20-year agreements. This is where the big boys with deep pockets can have an advantage to buy up the small fish. We also seem to have a lot more competition every day. Wonders how mega factories are financed at all when the technology could be out of vogue in a flash with all the AI learning and new materials.
What do you all think of this one? Looks like it could be a much cheaper alternative in the electrolyser market? https://www.cph2.com/
The obvious answer is what Andy said is the cost savings. Last post for the day. Have a good one.
Well, Jack apparently someone is willing to. Not sure, if $16 would be the actual cost or not since piping it is much cheaper and we are using cheaper power with solar, wind or hydro. I mean would we produce Green H2 and not have customers to buy it? That would be silly.
What I got out of the hearing was, I have met the enemy and it is us. Seems the most prudent way that would work immediately with little to no issues is to start blending H2 using existing pipelines to where there is demand. Seems a no brainer. If you truly wish to build out an infrastructure to National Highways
for trucking and major industries like steel, glass, fertilizer then pipelines are the most cost-effective way to do so.
I agree. They all made valid points to good questions. Now it is up to Congress to act. Now I just heard Biden will speak on climate tomorrow it seems and what he intends to put forth as law since he is now deemed himself a Monarch to save the planet. Be dammed with the Constitution. I guess he cannot let down Greta since she smells so sweet.
Heard Andy but in a 'plug' for the tax credit extension and $3\kg tax credit. Seems FERC in hurting gas pipelines with regulation would also potentially hurt us since we would be blending with gas and new pipelines are hard to get approved. Andy said Pipelines are the most economical way to transport H2. Williams suggesting changes to FERC to make it possible to transport H2. Seems we will be tied to Nat. gas in a symbiotic relationship.
So, the $3\KG tax credit is really needed to make H2 take off it seems. I think it would be a starting flag to those companies willing to invest in building out the infrastructure along highways to supply stations and Green h2 production.
Max Pain was just reduced to $15.50 so we could head down from here if the options theory is correct.
Maybe a deal with MSFT? I see Canoo (GOEV) signed with Walmart and part of the deal is they cannot work with anything Amazon. I know Amazon has Rivian. I wonder what ever happened to that deal that ZEV, our partner was to do with Amazon? I wonder if van conversions are in the works that have FC's or that deal is dead with Rivian. Still no announcement on trucks or another purchase that was teased. I wonder if the downturn delayed that also? I'm not sure way but I have a feeling I cannot shake that we get another bomb. Not sure what it will be but I don't see anyone buying at these prices and that makes me wonder why. Logically, if Andy get $52 Mil. if we hit $100 by the end of 2024 that is 6X your money in 2 years. If they are that confident why are not buying this hand over fist unless they know something negative is not going to happen before it all gets better? Just makes no sense does it?
Nice bounce back today. Still choppy roads ahead until after earnings in my opinion.
It seems Andy talk will be more in line with the Hubs, storage and pipelines than BBB and a $3 KG tax credit. Williams is a big Pipeline company so that seems the direction they are heading. Either way the exposure, assuming Andy is on game, should help and hope we get a Hub or two to help bolster US growth. BBB not dead yet, but on life support. The key will be watching to see where Nacy Pelosi and her husband buy stock and or options for Sept. (LOL)
Think we retest lows and will wait and wish I had sold last week when we hit $20. My reasons for stepping aside on everything since I'm down over 50% were many. 1) We are at the start of a recession and no indications we are near a bottom. 2) We will get a 1% rate increase which hurts growth stocks 3) The FANG stocks will report soon and show decreases and reductions in projections and take down the NAS 4) The EURO is at parity with the dollar and will hurt us as we are doing a large amount of business there 5) Earnings revenue will be good but losses will likely increase due to high cost, and we miss again. I saw the other day Manchin went negative and that was my last near-term hope for a rebound. I got tired of doing nothing and watching this roller coaster and riding it out. I will rethink and buy back in lower once the water gets warmer. I do wonder if partners scale back on delay plans as they are forced to make hard decisions and hold that will affect us.
Besides Hyvia which of these companies are partners that will buy from us? Thanks for posting!
The only thing I found troubling with that interview is his reply on the Lancaster Pa. deal. The excuse before was that it was not an expandable site and now it was an environmental issue? Good that Andy is still calling for 70 tons, even though I'm not sure they can pull it off. Updates and explaining how we are coming along would help as actions always speak louder than words. As far as the compensation it was likely legit depending on when they set up the plan to sell in proximity of the stock price collapsing and what he knew. If it was set up a year prior versus a month might make a difference. Either way the optics were bad. Looks like the BBB being pretty much dead will hurt the FC stocks today. Also, Europe business looks good except for the EURO being at parity with the dollar now.
Well, is that not stating the obvious since we just started selling them last year? I mean glad we are since that should be a profitable line of business and help offset our loses. Not sure anything matters with inflation at 9.1(actually double that since they take out food and energy) Morgan Stanley misses and stops stock buybacks and put $1.1 billion in reserves for losses. Now 80%+ chance of a 1% rate increase the end of this month. Core CPI is sticky and not coming down. IMHO, the whole market will tank to destroy inflation. Then the Fed will be forced one again to start this cycle of boom\bust again never solving the core problems as politicians don't have the guts to do so.
So, here's Sanjay- https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=plug+power+camden+county+ga&view=detail&mid=75AAA0A515BF4E2961A875AAA0A515BF4E2961A8&FORM=VIRE
His words not mine and is it up and running?
Because it is my opinion based on being an investor here for much longer than you. They broke ground on the Camden plant in August of 2021, almost a year ago. So, why would they be quiet about it actually working now when they had a big groundbreaking ceremony? It was touted as the first Green H2 plant. It would seem they would say something once it went online would they not? I believe it was to be up and running shortly after the first of the year. Apparently, it was delayed for some reason, but now it is by year end. My point is if it takes that long for a small plant most likely, using logic, it will be even longer for the Stamp plant.
Are they even producing any Green H2 in Ga.? That was supposed to be done already and I would think we would have heard if it was and the year is half over and that is a small plant. Now we are to believe NY, which is bigger will be producing this year? I find it hard to believe and bet it will be mid 2023 at best. Glad we bought Giner because that is what will offset some of our losses at least.
It is interesting that we took this deal as Andy has always said he did not wish to be a part supplier, but that is what we are doing here selling a part to another company to produce green H2 and not being a partner in the deal. Maybe, Andy has changed his mind again thinking that there's money to be made in selling picks and shovels also.
We all know PLUG was in dire straits when they made their deals with Amazon and Walmart. No matter how many FC's we made for them we would lose money. In the last few years with the addition of electrolyzers and Green H2 we have a chance to actually make money, but these are brand new markets and will further delay profitability. Too bad Andy could have not been more upfront with shareholders regarding how long this would take. While I give Andy praise for the foresight to enter these markets, I think he has failed to be truthful with shareholders on numerous occasions over the many years I have owned PLUG. I think it has been a learning process for him as much as it has been for me. I stay because I believe in the future of H2 and we are a leader in this area for now. I still remain a bit pensive on what Andy will do next in the area of a new purchase, dilution, stock options, or new additional business. My projection of BE by 2020 has blown by and now 2025. Again, opinions here only.
Thank you all for your inputs. It is a bit confusing with so many moving parts and deals to figure out what is what for this old fart.
Yes, there are three I think mentioned on the last earnings report. I know we have expenses and at some point, hopefully profits from these ventures. Just wondering how they are accounted for and how we profit from them in the future should they make money.
So how do shareholders of PLUG, since we are helping fund these companies derive equity? Will they become separate companies and we get shares eventually?
One other thing to consider with the dollar so strong that will hurt us when we sell product in Europe since the Euro is so low.
Yes, it does not look very promising, and time is running out. On the MSFT talk, my opinion is that MSFT is just playing the field for the best and lowest cost solution. They have 200+ data centers in the US and 600 worldwide so the chance of anyone winning all the business is nil. Along with that no one has the capacity at this point to cover the massive need. While I'll agree the talk of forklifts and having the ability to use H2 for trucks etc. sounds like us I'll not get overly excited about it yet. The first deal most likely will be a test run like Cummins and most likely the Azure Data Center in Ca. due to recent laws passed on diesel. Either way there is more than enough data center business to go around. I hope PLUGS solution gets a big share. Right now, Bloom owns like 80% in the US and S. Korea.
Sorry, it was a general note to other posters. Just to say we can all disagree with eachother and state our case. Good debate is a teaching lesson. We all come from different back grounds, ages and experiences. We are not here to just cheerlead, bash or down someone for their opinion. Granted if someone puts out a blatant lie they should be called out or corrected. Many, including myself, at times make misstatements unknowingly.
Last post for the day. Things to look for coming up that could make a difference. First MSFT data center plant announced in Ca. BBB passes or dies this month before August recess. I don't expect great earnings and think our loss will be larger than Zacks states (as usual) We are part of one or two Hubs announce and get funds. I personally think the market and likely us have a leg down when the FANG stocks announce and the Fed increases rates again month end.
Here's something to make your mouth water a bit at the sheer potential of the data center market just with MSFT. https://vivu.tv/how-many-microsoft-data-centers-are-in-the-us/#:~:text=How%20many%20Microsoft%20data%20centers%20are%20In%20the,Located%3F%20How%20many%20Microsoft%20data%20centers%20are%20there%3F
And just think about all the others like Amazon, FB, Walmart, and all the credit cards companies and the like. If our first trials work well this could be enough business to last a lifetime.
Now, I am hoping that the client would pay for the plant so we would not be out of pocket and we make a profit on the buildout and supplying the liquid H2 and servicing the plant so each would be like an annuity that pays as long as the contract exist.
Let's stop criticizing people for their opinion and stop the talk of if you don't like it walk garbage. As a shareholder you have the right to praise, be critical or neutral. As far as the raise of capital many have issues of the timing and optics. The day before it was done, they said they did not need the money and then Bam they did the raise. Shortly after that Andy cash out a huge amount of stock. Granted it was planned in advance, but optics sucked. Now would you rather sell stock at $60 versus $16? Sure, less dilution and if we had to go to market now it would be horrible. Lastly, SK was given shares at $29 shortly after that. Maybe that was our sign we were way over valued at the time and should have sold. Andy has promised huge cost reductions and BE numerous times. I praise his foresight, but think he's failed when it comes to making us profitable. He's worried more about growth and just figures in time profits will come apparently. He needs to tighten up the books and get us profitable ASAP, in my opinion and I don't see that now until 2025 mostly likely. Five years later than I predicted years ago.
My point is the amount of the compensation is absurd at what $52 million? As for the guy owning 1 share benefit the same percent. Factually correct but $100 compared to $52 million is a huge difference. Their excuse of this being a unique company and you cannot use normal standards rings hollow with me. Just my opinion.
Just goes to show the little guy does not matter and they know it and that is how they get away with this insane amount of compensation package. While I hope we see $100, unless something BIG happens I don't see him collecting since we will not make real profits until 2025 and hoping reverse splits don't count.
Mitch McConnel threatens to hold back passing the semi bill if the Dems pass BBB just out. So, I guess he wants to hurt US security? In another note I know there was some I wonder what is going on in Adairsville, Ga. I think it is another Amazon fulfillment center. This is a 1.1 million sq. foot warehouse similar to the one the same developer sold to Amazon in Va. Adairsville is in NW Ga. close to US Hwy. 41 and I-75 so a great shipping location.
That is a BIG IF. We are only slated to be a $3 Billion dollar company by 2025 I believe, so not sure where you get $60 Billion? If so, we would need a huge amount of expenditures of way more than our $3 billion of cash. With the stock down almost 80% off the high and most people down in their investment I don't see the gouging of shareholders as positive. Heck, I have not seen anyone including Andy even buying shares while this cheap. It is almost like a No vote of confidence if they truly believe we are going to hit $100 a share in 2024 as that is over a 6X return in less than 3 years. Seems they are willing for us to risk our capital, but not themselves. Always easier with OPM I guess. While I am big on H2 I'm not a happy camper with the long delays to becoming profitable that are now slated in 2025. (Yes, I'm talking about actual profits and not semantics)
So, what was the deal on the additional proxy material I wonder on compensation? Were there so many no votes they seemed concerned and wanted to explain it or did it fail and want to revive it somehow? It would seem if you already voted you cannot now change your vote, can you? Would you? As to the package, I had no issue with the concept just the obscene amount.
On other issues I agree the downturn was and is related to the market and not directly to Plug as Jack stated. Eith way JPMorgan is likely hedged and agnostic as they will win either way.
I thought we had an MOU with Airbus? Did Linde replace us? https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2022-06-airbus-and-linde-to-cooperate-on-hydrogen-infrastructure-for
Correct Bloom is agnostic as to the power source and lets the customer decide which is best for their needs. I own both companies and see the Oxide FC has advantages with certain applications, especially using high heat. They just inked a deal with Westinghouse to use the heat produced from nuclear power plants to product power. They are slated to be a $10 billion dollar company by 2030. Who knows Plug maybe as large or bigger, but I do worry about larger funded groups coming into the market as competition. I guess we at least have a head start in business and have learned a good bit. This is my last of 3 post.