Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Rayovac:
“Relative to what KBLB was able to make prior, I don't consider 100's of kilos as tiny. I actually consider that to be a large amount of SS.”
I believe this was your quote (cut and pasted from your post) regarding the “largest quantity ever”. Even if that quote wasn’t about, “100’s of kilos to date”, your statement indicated you were one of those who believed it was 100’s of kilos produced. If I’m wrong, I’m sure you’ll let me know and I’m sorry if I was mistaken.
DON’T SHOOT THE MESSENGER
Regarding Kim’s despicable ways, having attempted to deceive shareholders into believing a lot of silk was produced. All I did was tell it like it is. Maybe so many were upset because some (not all) took the bait and my post reminded them of that.
“For the sake of mincing words, “
Does this mean replacing truths with make up garbage opinions?
No. “For the sake of mincing words”, means, instead of the excessive verbiage required to rehash the whole gestalt, just focus on the core meaning. Once again, Kim didn’t quantify his largest amount ever was because it was embarrassingly small, but by saying “largest amount ever, it allowed those receptive to Kim’s narrative to feel like the production amount was more than it was. This was so obvious it was disheartening to read how many posters felt it was a significant amount. I hate it when a demagogue (and that is what Kim has become to Kool-Aid-drinking shareholders) gets away with lying by omission and fostering a false impression.
This was addressed at length in the past. 100’s of kilos without any reasonable doubt would’ve been a win worthy of a PR. That there was no PR and NO quantification, no subsequent revenue, no Spydasilk launch, etc. obviated production amounting to less than 100 kilos. I wouldn’t have retouched on this had someone not mentioned the spurious, “largest amount ever”. Yet another use of language to make something out for more than it really was. Disingenuous, lying by omission, underhanded - all hallmarks of Kim.
“Denial” ain’t just a River in Egypt.
To believe the “largest quantity ever” was anything but tiny is naive and quite gullible. Why NOT brag about such a “large” quantity? Rhetorical question, of course because the answer is too obvious.
All Kim has to do to avoid a lawsuit is “try”. Attempting to produce and failing isn’t something for which he could be sued. Given whatever small amount of silk that was produced, it was likely not enough to sell (or it wasn’t viable) or it would’ve been sold - regardless of whatever excuse some might offer for not having sold anything to date.
Hence the quotation marks. C’mon. Clearly the point that was missed (or overlooked because it obviates yet another KBLB failure) was that the “biggest quantity ever” was tiny. One doesn’t need a “data point” to realize that.
Im sure even Hofstadter had his limits.
“…we achieved the most production ever produced in the company’s history.”
That the “most production ever” was never quantified should tell you something. For the sake of mincing words, it wasn’t revealed because it had to have been very small, obviating the failed previous production attempts as there was zero reason not to reveal it otherwise. Just another unquantified but key “data” point one needs when assessing KBLB.
“But he does wish for common sense amongst those following KBLB. Without it, they lose sight of what's actually being accomplished.”
I’ve said this before… It’s my belief that Kim doesn’t want shareholders with common sense because common sense suggests the company appears to be circling the drain more than it appears poised for commercial success. He wants people to stay invested to keep the share price as “high” as it is, especially since there’s little to no chance for production-based revenue any time “soon” and without revenue he may eventually avail himself, again, of everyone’s shares via the dilution solution. One can’t simply dismiss Kim’s lying by omission, his opacity, his misleading statements, poor decision making, etc. as “Kim’s nature because he’s a lawyer”. It’s all too “Madoff-ish”. Do I have any doubt about that? Sure, a very small doubt that’s keeping me tethered to a small position that I’ll be rid of before the year is through. Again, Kim probably wants shareholders more disposed to hope than common sense.
I’m not sure I understood your first sentence. Anyway, how many times does it need to be said, cheerleading and/or browbeating the stock will have zero impact on KBLB’s success or failure. Nothing anyone says here will prevent the worms from producing silk - the “tech” seems to be doing that all by itself. My expectation (hope) is that AF funding of some sort is at least granted (if not received) before December ends so that those conflating funding with production success might drive up the pps before I bail. On the off chance some other positive development occurs before December ends, all the better. You’ll hear a lot less from me after that point - a silver lining, perhaps? Take care.
Even if Mullet never made another disparaging post, everything he said in that first paragraph would still define KBLB’s existence - nothing about KBLB would change.
Development and sustainability. Heavy sigh. I know, I know - if you have to find a ray of sunshine, it could be rationalized that all the failures, “secrecy”, omissions and the incredibly long litany of reasons not to believe in KBLB as a viable prospect, all can be squashed by, “development and sustainability. Think about this, if Kim/KBLB had no real expectations for production out of Vietnam, wouldn’t claiming, “development and sustainability” (to economize on words), be the thing to say to shareholders to explain away all the bad and keep them on the hook? A rhetorical question in my view, but not likely for everyone. He’s a smart man, that Kim.
Just trying to inject a dose of reality, as Mullet’s post attempted to do. Nobody’s trying to rewrite KBLB’s history. KBLB’s history is the problem for most who “naysay” the stock. Kim’s/KBLB’s issues/problems have come to define the stock and its prospects. Sorry to disturb.
Maybe re-read the first paragraph of Mullet’s last post. Everything stated was and is Kim’s/KBLB’s reality. Nothing he stated was false or misleading.
All true. Still, several have posted that there simply aren’t any other companies doing what KBLB purports to do when there may in fact be others that are private entities so I felt a need to point that out. Nothing more.
“Why not challenge them to validate their beliefs by selling their shares, even the freebies, cheapies, etc? Why hold any in a scam? Unless there is some doubt?”
There’s doubt in just about ANYTHING and EVERYTHING pertaining to KBLB (or any other stock for that matter). Those who 100% doubt it’s a scam remain heavily invested and those at the other end of the scale have little to no shares and there’s everywhere in between. It’s common sense for one to know that they don’t know everything. That said, it should be glaringly obvious that most shareholders have at least SOME doubt, to whatever degree, about whether or not KBLB is a scam - even if they’re not they’re willing to openly admit it. As such, it should also be obvious that it’s silly to “challenge” people to sell all their shares based on their “scam-o-meter”.
For all the talk of KBLB being the only spider silk entity the government can be referring to in the oft-referenced pictorial, did it ever occur to anyone that a private company could possibly be working on genetically engineering silkworms to express spider silk? I don’t know of any - and have no reason to believe there are or aren’t any such companies operating today - but private companies don’t have to disclose diddly so nobody would know. Just a thought while waiting on those AF funds.
Unfortunately, quite well said.
The notion that Kim wouldn’t “lie” because of the legal implications falls apart when it’s realized that Kim (generally) doesn’t lie. He hints at, suggests, implies and most importantly, keeps on trying - all sufficiently buffered, legally, with disclaimers and language that otherwise provides a backdoor exit for any “claims” that do not come to pass. He does what he does BECAUSE he knows the law is on his side - as long as he keeps on trying to produce (even if he doesn’t believe in the likelihood of production success).
I’ll reassert, my wording may not have been as clear as needed but I merely stated (in too many words, apparently) that a vest would have to be under $10K to be viable.
If Kim can produce at $1K/kilo and be profitable, what a huge win that would be. If I believed that’s what will happen, I’d take Banana’s advice and Kong up. I simply doubt it can be done that cheaply and still turn a profit in a controlled environment because I feel the added costs of scaling up labs/controlled facilities won’t yield enough additional production to drive down costs. That’s just my feeling given there’s no data - just my own suppositions - too many variables to solve for “X”. Theoretically, if there was no genetic drift, or other problems, I’d guess silk could be made in Vietnam for well under $1K. Unfortunately that doesn’t seem very likely either. We’ll see.
Your reply suggests a complete misunderstanding of my post. I said the govt won’t pay six figures (or five figures for that matter) for a bullet proof vest. What does that statement imply? For lab-produced silk to be affordable to the govt, the silk would have to be cheap enough for a bulletproof vest to cost four figures, not five, not six. Spinning my post to suggest I claimed a vest would cost six figures… C’mon.
We already know lab production will be low - that’s just being realistic - common sense. Why “wag high” on lab-based production when it’s known it’ll be low? Low production = high price. Rich people would pay exorbitant prices for a spider-ish silk vest, but not the govt. For all that, another, “c’mon”.
One kilo? Your words, not mine. I think you’re way off. One kilo seems awfully low but what would be a “high” batch estimate for output from a single lab? 10 kilos? 50? 100? And over what period/s of time? All impossible to answer with any degree of certainty, but applying a little common sense suggests that whatever the number is, it ain’t a lot and that’s gonna be very expensive - perhaps prohibitively so, but with any luck, perhaps not. Time will tell. One kilo? C’mon.
I never questioned the toughness of ss, though the notion of a .50 cal-proof ss parachute (it ain’t Mithril, ya know) remains as ridiculously improbable as KBLB sitting on a warehouse full of viable spiderish silk. I’ve repeated this several times now but since the only silk KBLB seems to have a chance of producing/selling might just be in an AF-funded lab, quantities would be small so prices for the silk would have to be high to cover all costs. Optimization would occur but scaling up the lab model means building more/larger labs (very costly) which means economies of scale aren’t reached to drop prices the way they would in the regular sericulture production chain. Adding labs would just increase the quantity of silk produced without making the silk more affordable. Hypothetically, a lab-based breakthrough could increase production/drop the price then you’d look under your seat and YOU get a parachute and YOU get a parachute and YOU get a bulletproof vest and we all get to buy ss dental floss at CVS. Unless and until… a WHOLE lotta stuff that hast yet happened has to happen before a single strand of high cost ss is made.
I’m aware of what’s in the RFI. Bottom line, long term, KBLB needs to eventually produce profitably, even if it’s eventually out of an AF-financed lab. Otherwise, “let’s try again”, blends to dilution and the empty promises machine everyone here knows all to well. I’ll be out of the stock before the end of December but I’ll keep my eye on it to see if revenue can one day be generated from the sale of viable silk. I’ll get back in then if that ever occurs.
Not a narrow fixation but a “big picture” view of KBLB since Lam Dong has thus far been and likely will continue being a bust. AF is the last best hope for KBLB it would seem so “fixating” on its best chance for success doesn’t show a “breakdown” in understanding but a solid grasp of what matters in the months (years probably) ahead.
BTW have any patents yet been granted to KBLB? If or when that happens, perhaps they can monetize them, perhaps not. Until a patent is granted, it isn’t. Time will tell.
I used, “insanely high price”, because lab production will necessarily be small quantities so scaling up becomes very expensive, adding additional labs to up output. No, we don’t know what the output would be but it’s safe to say it won’t be a lot (whatever rate or quantity you wish to ascribe) so it’ll necessarily be expensive. I’m VERY sure we’ll never see six-figure bulletproof vests (and probably not even five-figures) bought by the govt so the output will have to be quite high for it to be affordable. Perhaps there’s a market for six-figure bulletproof vests among the world’s billionaires and oligarchs, but the AF won’t fund such production - only what it’s willing to develop and ultimately buy if it’s affordable enough. Take care and enjoy the fourth.
Somehow I doubt the goal is for silk parachutes that can stop .50 cal rounds. .50 cal rounds will dent Wolverine’s adamantium, Captain America’s vibranium shield and might even mark up Thor’s hammer, which is made from a neutron star. It would seem only Superman is unaffected by .50 cal rounds, but DC characters were always a bit more absurd than Marvel’s.
I responded to EOT and I’ll let that response apply to your reply as well. Take care and enjoy the fourth.
It seems that the posited definition of understanding borders on drinking the Kool Aid. My focus is on all that has to happen for KBLB to become profitable as a result of potential AF funding while the other side of the coin seems to be, KBLB’s spiderish silk has tested great in the past so the govt will want it at almost any price and the actual production needed to generate sufficient sales is a given (which it most definitely is not). We’ll agree to disagree. Take care and enjoy the fourth.
Someone didn’t read my post or at least that person didn’t comprehend or “understand” it. The gist was, with AF funding, if Kim can pull off lab-produced silk there has to be enough of it to actually make things AND be affordable enough to merit its purchase by the government. They simply won’t pay ANY insanely high price for it if there are already viable alternatives - we already have parachutes, bullet resistant vests, sutures, heart valves, etc.. We just don’t know how much lab-made silk can be produced and what the price would actually be. So even if one believes AF funding is a slam dunk, one cannot take for granted that the more important steps will automatically be successful. Time will tell.
Why quote MS and DS stats? It’s known they’re great fibers, but that’s beside the point. Take diamond for example - the hardest substance in nature. If it were used to cover the face of a wristwatch, it’d never scratch but it’s so costly it’s never used. Sapphire coated/infused glass is so much cheaper and does an excellent job resisting scratches which is why it’s used (not diamond) on even the most expensive watches.
Herculite Mil-Spec is the kind of product that highlights the notion that whatever spiderish silk KBLB produces in a lab would have to be cost-effective. The government won’t buy it at “any cost”. Silk won’t necessarily create brand new and never-before-seen products, but rather replace ingredients/components in existing products to make them better and/or lighter. There’s a limit to what the gov’t will spend on a better product if what’s out there already does a good job for the money. We’ll never see a six figure bullet proof vest issued to troops (maybe not even five figures for that matter). If it gets to the point where KBLB ever produces silk in an AF-funded lab, it’ll be very interesting to find what the price per kilo would be to sustain a business case. We’ll see, just not anytime soon.
There’s no doubt the people in charge have no clue what the implications of AI are, particularly the potential harm it can do to people/society as a whole. Aside from potentially malicious harm, It’ll drastically alter the employment market - virtually eliminating certain types of jobs while creating others. Exciting times these are. I agree with you about a pause - not sure about the length - so government, scientists, etc. can at least try and determine what kind of rules and regulations can be implemented right now to prevent AI from becoming a runaway train. AI, data centers/cloud computing, high end gaming, self driving cars, etc. are all things to I’ve been investing heavily in (mostly in one particular stock) for the last five years against the advice of a financial advisor I met with long ago. I’d like to meet with him again and ask him what he thinks about that investment now.
All I wanted to see was simply the answer to the question I asked. We apparently asked the exact same question and got two completely different responses. Seems like they used Kim’s engrams in training the AI. There was no prompt, unless you meant that Bard picked up on my “negative vibes”, or looked into my KBLB posting history. If that’s the case it’s clearly not trying to be accurate but to cater to one’s whims which isn’t what it’s supposed to be. The takeaway is that AI is in its infancy and shouldn’t be relied upon for accuracy (yet)... Funny how, “Funny how AI learns what we want to see”, sounds as if there was a sinister intent where there was none.
Lest anyone thought they should put any faith in “Bard” as it pertains to KBLB, please read what I copied and pasted below. It’s the response from Bard when I asked, “Is Kim Thompson the CEO of KBLB”?
“Kim Thompson is the CEO of Nexia Biotechnologies, a company that is developing spider silk-producing silkworms. Nexia is a private company, and its financial information is not publicly available. However, Thompson has said that the company has raised over $100 million in funding and is on the verge of commercializing its spider silk technology.
KBLB is a publicly traded company that develops and manufactures high-performance materials, including spider silk-based materials. KBLB's CEO is not Kim Thompson.
In conclusion, Kim Thompson is not with KBLB. He is the CEO of Nexia Biotechnologies, a private company that is developing spider silk-producing silkworms.”
I feel like people who still wholeheartedly believe they’re gonna see production out of Vietnam are just suckers for abuse and are numbed from ongoing disappointment after disappointment. The only hope for success (defined as profitability) doesn’t rely upon AF funding per se, but that a quality product can again be produced in an AF-funded lab and then, in usable quantities, and then at a price that DOD would consider affordable. I just don’t see it all happening. So much wheel spinning and no forward movement portends more tire smoke (and mirrors).
Yes, moats are important but even more important is building the castle first - and there is no castle.
Let’s hope so.
It’s generally accepted (but not a hard and fast rule) that stock prices reflect the future nine months for a company. Looked at that way - the way professionals view the stock market - KBLB nine months from now…
Coming SOON:
The Easter Bunny
Santa Claus
The Tooth Fairy