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Exploring our long term funding options with sophisticated investors. #CEOtalk pic.twitter.com/kP2ymx83eI
— APT Systems Inc APTY (@APTYsys) March 22, 2018
To answer your question...yes, I do think you're being impatient. But most longs (including me) are too. I don't think it's 100% your fault. I believe there's 3 basic things factoring into the current emotion for longs:
1. Lack of mining knowledge. Going off of message board comments too much will only add to this confusion. This is not the place to learn about mining.
2. Though he's an honest person, PT speaks in a way that has not been good when it comes to PR updates. Even if he expected faster results, he shouldn't have stated such specific timelines over these past 18 months.
3. Jaded penny investing mindset. Instead of just being frustrated with honest delays, many longs jump into words like "scams." Poor communication automatically becomes "fraud" in this jaded mindset. The truth is irrelevant...everything is seen through the worst possible filter. Spending time on message boards does not help with this. Just because so many penny stocks are scams doesn't mean they all are. As junior mining companies go, Mexus is at minimum, an intriguing investment option to many people who understand this industry.
That said, yeah, if you bought at 20 cents...or 15 cents...or 10 cents...you're obviously going to be frustrated. Your investment has shrunk. That has nothing to do with whether a gold pour will be coming in the next month or not. It's as simple as you being in the red right now. But, yes, I like the stock at these prices. I have bids sitting in the low 2's. If something is going to happen reasonably soon as far as gold sales, these prices will be looked back on as very good buys. If it's worth the risk to you, then buy. If not, then don't. But I wouldn't expect to find much unbiased, helpful information on message boards.
Again, this is ihub. You're wasting energy. Reach out to the company if you're actually trying to make that point in a way that matters.
I say yes. Some others say yes. Some others say no. But it's Ihub. Not exactly the best place to do smart DD.
The most logical answer to that is one that most longs don't want to hear.
First it was:
"They won't pay off that note. What a scam."
Now it's:
"He sold shares to try to pay off that note. What a scam."
That is curious (to put it nicely) logic.
Apparently (in the minds of some), companies that have yet to start making money have a magical cash register where they can simply access cash.
The truth is, a CEO in this position who is willing to sell his shares for a purpose like that would be a positive thing. It would show evidence of integrity if you're willing to see that. But when interested in a narrative rather than truth, people will see whatever they want to see.
I bought a bunch today. Was tired of sitting on my bids in the low 2s so got impatient and forced the issue a little. Figured I might as well take out that last chunk at .03 while I was at it.
Saw the toxic note mention and had forgotten about that. Has it been paid off? If so, how was it paid? If anyone knows, that is very helpful information to share. Thanks.
Agree. But nobody's buying much at the higher end of this range right now and basically anyone who put in a big bid the last few weeks was getting filled. That's been almost all of the volume for weeks. My bid for 500k or 1m tomorrow at .021 or .022 is likely going to be pretty tempting to someone. If I can't fill more, that's fine. I do think there's a fair chance I'll get more in the low 2s this week. If not, I'll catch the next dip. This isn't moving up permanently without real news. Appreciated hearing your thoughts.
Too much guessing/predicting news makes people expect it and then feel disappointed when it doesn't happen. It'll come or it won't. No need to try to guess an exact day. Also, the price "going up" this week looks better on paper than it actually is. Very little volume at the ask. Mainly just painting. Not nearly as much going on as it may seem. I can tell you this as the person who is responsible for a big percentage of the buying recently. I will continue to buy what I can when it's sold into the low 2s this week, but there's not a lot moving this up right now.
That million is me fyi
In fairness, you did just post this yesterday:
I believe they've done a lot beyond what they owed MarMar (money, time, manpower, etc) to try to get this done and make it work with them. I think MarMar has done a pretty bad job and I think that's been a MarMar problem. I would guess that MarMar doesn't have a lot of time left to do their job before Mexus steps in fully. Obviously money has been an issue and there's a reason this stock is under a nickel. They expected to get this done sooner and hit some problems. But MarMar was the main reason for these delays and I believe with great confidence that Mexus expected better performance out of them to this point. As far as Don, like I said, I think he's honest and his junior mining resume is unparalleled. He thinks he has a perfect record because he does. But his ability to communicate well and his stock market views are not something I think as well of. Somewhere in the middle is where unbiased, logical people live. Anyone who thinks Mexus does everything great is way too biased. And anyone who thinks that every misstep they make is because of a conspiracy and lie is also too biased. If you communicate with Paul Dent or PT at all, they are not dishonest people. They're people who are trying to mine gold in Mexico without a lot of money to do it. It has obviously been messy. But the game isn't over. Don's perfect record may very well stay perfect. This has obviously not been the best run recently but that doesn't mean they'll never pour gold and never make money. Even if I didn't have a share of stock here, I'd know how messy and delay-filled and frustrating junior mining can be at this point in a company's life.
I wouldn't argue with that. Frustration sounds accurate. And yeah I think there's some hostility and venting from the ihub frustration. But strange, amatuerish, and poor performance is different than some of the things you've been saying. I, for one, believe Don is honest and do believe this company will figure it out. Obviously it would have been much better to buy low than the people who got in at 12 cents, 15 cents, 20 cents, etc. Believing in his mining knowledge is very different than believing in his stock market knowledge.
Many misinterpretations. First, if you're bringing up Dent, he has literally never sold a single share of Mexus stock. Not one. He is in the red like a lot of shareholders. If this were something sinister, he would have been benefiting from it. He is not. At all. Another part of the human psyche that you should understand very well is that people often look for the most dramatic answer rather than the truth. If you were focused on the fact that they haven't done a great job at mining gold until now, that would show that you're being logical. But coming up with conspiracies like you are is emotional. It's a typical snowball effect. Bad news then bad stock performance then the negative talk and venting follows. Doesn't make the words true, though. And you've misinterpreted 8's posts more than once through the years. It has happened before. Not really your fault since those words are written in a very hard-to-read way. A CEO wanting the stock price to go up is very different than not planning to mine gold and only caring about PPS. That is just completely false no matter how much you talk about it being true. There are people who have been to the sites. Honest people who have more knowledge with the people and events to this point. But you don't want to listen to them. You don't want to hear it. Even when it's the truth. As much bias as you think some people have here, your bias is just as strong in the other direction.
Exactly. Emotional accusations and literally nothing more.
True.
I get the emotions involved in a trade. It's extremely stressful to see red when you have your hopes (and money) so tied up in something. But it's poor investing to lose objectivity and think everything is all good no matter what. If APTY was doing everything right and well, it wouldn't be under a penny per share. There is money to be made here, but at this point, it's by playing bounces.
Manipulation = The OTC
It's not like manipulation is an exception to the rule here or with any other OTC stock. Manipulation is the norm with penny stocks. This PPS drops as long as someone wants it to drop. Instead of fighting that, it's better to accept when there's selling pressure and play the moves. Other than depending on luck, that's the way to survive in the OTC. I thought there might have been a bounce coming at a penny but it wasn't to be, so I got out again. I'll wait to get in cheaper.
There are more than one that are going to be used. One has been shipped. When he says #1, sounds like he's making reference to it being the biggest of them.
Yeah, maybe a little early but at least we're starting to see some good trading signs. One nervous nellie is selling into the bid but, other than that, there's a solid chance of bouncing off of the low 2's here. A familiar bargain bin level 2 manipulator in the penny world has started to accumulate and is likely looking to play the bounce when it comes.
I was obviously talking recent days. Whether you like the long-term prospects or not, stocks that drop to 52 week lows get on traders' radars for a bounce. The same way that stocks that rise quickly in recent sessions get on the radars of those who prefer to short. Not that complicated.
Been churning well at this level. Worth taking a look at the low 2's as a good place for longs to average down or for traders to get in for a bounce.
Emotion aside, there's a very good chance that shares will be available at that price. Almost no bid left at the moment.
Yes, increasing stock price is tied into the anticipation of future positive events. At some point, any stock that continues to have shares listed for sale will be priced at a level that is considered attractive. As companies like Amazon rise and rise and rise, it's because of all of the data coming in that makes people look at the price and say, "It's still attractive at that level. There's so much going on that I believe this will continue to rise." People feel safe in that investment.
When Mexus rose up to 20 cents, the anticipation of future positive events was very high with the limited number of people who have this stock on their radar. After numerous delays, that anticipation and enthusiasm has dulled significantly and the stock price tells the story of frustration. Mexus still isn't a blimp on most radars and this emotional shift has been particularly damaging because there just aren't that many people buying/selling this stock.
To make the leap that this is then an elaborate scam (as some have done) is simply not true. It's one thing to criticize their choices or their effectiveness. But it's factually incorrect to talk about people, places, and situations you don't know and then speculate with the worst kind of rumors. It's calling everyone who knows the people involved and those who have been on the land liars. It's calling the people closely involved who have invested large amounts of money (and are currently down big) liars. And it's calling them liars without actually personally and directly knowing the people. The internet is a place where anyone can say the worst possible thing about someone and put those words in print forever. Mexus has had their struggles but it's incorrect to claim that was their intention.
All true.
Was just a reminder to those who have such positive hopes for Mexus that they actually need to buy shares of its stock for anything to happen.
Interesting that you would automatically think that buying stock in a company you are trying to support is manipulation. It's not. That's how any market works. How do you think AMZN goes up? Or bitcoin? If nobody buys at the ask with any type of investment, that investment doesn't go up. Buyers are always needed. That's Finance 101.
Daily reminder:
Buying (at the ask) is needed for stock prices to go up.
Stock looks ready to move up. A good March catalyst or some increased buying would do the trick.
That "correct" pricing changes based on news and events. What is correct is something that changes. Otherwise stocks would stay at the same price forever. So it's really a non-statement of a statement. What you say never happens is something that happens every day and has happened here before. With good news, the price moves up. With anticipation of good news, the price also moves up. That's based on buying. The thing that moves a stock up. The same basic point.
There's always the emotional person or two, but for the most part, the main problem has not been selling. It's the limited buying. Pretty simple here. Buying is needed. On the bid is better than nothing but knocking off the ask is what's needed to move it up.
People who don't like the current stock price do have the option to do something about it. Buy at the ask and it will move up. If you do a lot of buying, it will move up quickly.
The volume these last 3 days indicates that it isn't a big group jumping ship. Small number of sellers is manageable if there is buying. More buying is needed to move this back up.
The chart is definitely a short-term mood detector. I don't know why anyone fights that. And it's an adaptable thing. When support or resistance is broken, a chart adjusts. It's not a fixed read on things. And that's what I think some people find flaky about it. But that's how it works. Nobody denies that it's tied into news and events. We're talking about a company that is still trying to make money. A disappointing PR has an impact just like a positive one would. There aren't balance sheets to depend on with companies of this size so these events are significant ones.
That was all tied into the PR, though.
Sure, I can't blame you. It's been an ugly 2 days. Nobody can logically disagree with that. Of course there needs to be a lot more buying here to get an uptrend going. Or MarMar coming through, Ures getting going, etc. There actually hasn't been that much selling at this level. Just not nearly enough buying to move this up. As we have both seen, there's not enough on the bid.
Well those are more specific questions and a more detailed, better conversation. Mexus was subpenny because they needed a partner to get this going. Not because they were crooked or dishonest as some like to say. There's a reason this is a stock at single digit pennies rather than hundreds of dollars per share. They're trying to become a money-making company. Nobody claims it's easy. They're not exactly overflowing with money. Shareholders had a lot of hope in MarMar coming through. That is in question now so we've had a rough few days. Sure, you'll be able to jump on it and ride that wave once gold starts being sold. And of course holding from 20 cents down to 3 was not the best move to make here. I agree with you there. But there's no other way to say it other than this is mining. There are false starts and stops along the way. It's not for the faint of heart. I'm not saying there's an guarantee Mexus will become a big player in the mining world. But it's certainly possible. So lumping it into "every other" issue in the penny stock world is sloppy logic. It ignores the other similar mining companies who have done this. And saying Mexus' stock price won't recover ignores that it has done it before.
also when you say "all" then it is, in fact, a generalization
Part of the miscommunication on both sides of that ongoing charting debate is that you're talking about two completely different things. It's literally two different conversations and neither party realizes it. One is about the long-term end result of this. It's from a person who has an almost peerless history of mining success...he's saying basically that none of this matters and that gold will be mined at a profit (and he has results that back up his knowledge more than anyone here). From his perspective, the short-term trading doesn't matter because it's a completely different ball game for this company when they have a producing mine. He knows that the frustration and ups and downs and heartache to get to that point are unbearable for short-term trader types. Your side of that (reading charts) is not any less skillful. But it's a completely different conversation you're having. Short-term trends and sentiment don't matter to the party having the first conversation. They just want to accumulate shares and be ready for when the game really starts. This current drama is not a make or break thing for them.
No but you're married to generalizations about penny stocks. That doesn't make you more real than someone else, just more general. The truth is that you're missing a lot of the details here and just going through the broad strokes. Your response to TML is a perfect example. The answer to that question is not about a scam or dishonesty, etc. It has to do with Mar Mar and specifics that matter. Was it a misstep to team up with them? Possibly. Was this a setback? Of course. But this isn't game over. And when you talk about the .01% of recovering penny stocks...you're forgetting that this exact one (Mexus) has done it before. More than once. Just because people trust the owner of this company and believe in their prospects doesn't make them naive to what most penny stocks are. But lumping this generally into one big category doesn't make you more honest or real.
He knows far more about mining and this company's prospects than you do. It's just not easy to admit.
Strongly disagree. More than any post I've ever read from you. People who haven't invested in a junior miner should read TML's post again. One of the very few helpful things ever written here. Junior miner investing is not for everyone. There are starts and stops, challenges, headaches, and excruciating problems along the way. It's not for the faint of heart. Easy to pile on Mexus after today, but posts like that are not accurate.