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It's exactly what I was warning of three months ago but did anyone take notice from a competitor that holds the best DD on this board? Cigalikes are yesterday's news and vape stores are where the action is. There may possibly be time for ECIG to get on board with some inventive ideas for eliquids but it will take a big launch spend and I doubt they have much cash at the moment.
Unless regulation goes the way of cigalikes (which would be a disaster for public health) their future is cloudy at best. They are pumping money into acquisition only to see probably 80% of it progress to stores or cheaper website suppliers.
For the record I still have shares hoping for a bounce but nowadays I'm less hopeful. It's a big shame as the longer they are around, the more smokers will be more confident in quitting or reducing their intake.
GLTA
I said it before and I'll say it again
I said it before
Indeed they use "Advanced" glue
It is encouraging to see less marketing spend but I imagine that would be down to a lack of cash rather than ideas. Taking toxic debt out of the equation should give them breathing space but without investors getting on board, they won't raise enoug capital before their general administrative and selling expenses bankrupts them.
They need the pps up and lots of people buying in that's as clear as day and they also need to ditch a lot of their bad ideas, such as the VIP blending boutiques as the concept just isn't a winner IMO
I think so but then again not sure with Willis's accounting disasters.
The market for cigalikes has shrunk massively so any figures at or near would be positive for them. They need to launch new products and I have seen some industry developments recently that are either a positive or a concern.
In the UK they are working with the government to implement a code of conduct or Industry Excellence program, which will restrict vendor and push smaller manufacturers out. It's very sneaky and could seriously backfire if certain products would be banned, the UK brands would face a backlash and lose potential customers forever.
I don't have the link to hand but it's called ECITA and I think one or two of the VIP owners are on the board (not surprising)
Agreed but in the righ track
My estimate is 14.5m for Q1 today
Anything ball park is satisfactory.
I cautiously agree but do bear the caveat that Mansoor is already committed after slapping around $20m in last year. Harder to wave your wang around when you're already balls deep.
Sticky?
I know of CCVAPES from over here in the UK and they have loyalty thru understanding their customer base so don't be so quick to judge. ECIG is ploughing a consistent thought process and CC has every right to call his opinion and you should not knock him on it. Let him bash as he does know more about the actual industry.
CC from an investment perspective I suggest you get in on this thing. While you and I agree that ECIGs plan for world domination is substantially flawed, this offering does represent tremendous short and medium term value, plus it is highly beneficial to us smaller players having ECIG and other big single brands building a awareness amongst first time vapers which results in free referrals for us. You don't need to praise ECIG but you should back up the folk on these investment boards as the stock has been shorted, converted, dumped and manipulated beyond reckoning and it's time ECIG received a little better fortune. You should want them to survive and flourish a little. Get on board for now at least it's good for the industry and your pocket.
GLTA
Well done to those that filed. I'm sure the manipulators are watching IH and other boards and will think twice knowing you have the bit between your teeth. Actually bullish short term now, let's see what today brings, I reckon 10-15% up!
The 41m was invested because the investor saw an opportunity to rescue and make 12% (is that correct?). The investor would feel confident the company can weather the storm in that case, not necessarily that the Q1 are so good, just good enough to stay the course
I can imagine the investor being able to swing a big dick around the boardroom and decide who is excess inventory. Maybe Mansoor was behind Brent etc leaving. Seems plausible.
as far as I am aware, they own a small amount of vape shops, less than ten in total for VIP. This brand also has lots of shopping mall kiosks that apparently are quite profitable but IMO appeal only to the new user and not to someone looking for a sturdier device. 10 or 20 of these shops isn't much for a big corporate and as I have said before. I am pessimistic of the Q1 figures.
What is more promising is for ECIG to forget vape shops and just develop quality eliquids and in around 1/ months, they should have great popularity and availability thru the 100k+ stores they have right now. I think honestly this is the only way forward otherwise the income will keep shrinking, operating expenses will rise and so will debt. Flogging a spent horse, time to change strategy if they have the cash to do that.
That's actually fair comment tbh yes the market is fragmented and also saturation as a result of poor production standards by some of the value brands. ECIG would acquire facilities and I am aware they already have an "in" with a UK producer that can roll out much larger quantities with very high quality product.
I can see a few juice makers being attracted to cashing in and maybe even some will fall for the paper value!!
As a store owner in this space, it would have a positive impact for the industry and in line with growth, any loss experienced would be mitigated by increased awareness so it's a happy medium. Us store owners need the corporates to continue especially with cigalikes as they promote initial awareness.
Maybe if the follow your strategy they have a lower cost introduction and ready-made distribution network. Makes sense.
Yep I agree but the present generation of vapers won't go for a big cigalike company. They go for Cuttwood, Suicide Bunny, Cosmic Fog and so many others. ECIG launching in this market would be like gramps trying to snowboard!
It's okay because this is a war of attrition and ECIG should have enough funds to weather a long storm web after accumulation of more debt and become credible amongst the hip crowd in anything from a year to two years but they would need to rip up the current R&D model and go with market demand.
There are literally hundreds of eliquid manufacturers that have built up a reputation over two or three years. There are large standard ecig companies putting out their versions with a very mixed reception and those lines are just one of the hundreds. ECIG eliquids elukd appeal generally to existing users but if they cannot attract loyalty because the products they sell are basic, they will sell very few eliquids.
Tbh if I was in deep and had deep deep pockets I would be averaging down right at this point. It's sunk enough and there is enough right here right now for some relief.
I'm dubious of ECIG's prospects but the $41m is more than a red herring I feel. IMO people should go balls deep right now.
All the haters can reference this glimmer of positivity from me and take that to the bank.
Defo not long though ??
What I say makes no difference to those with blind faith but I feel vindicated warning of growth limitation pre-RS and if anyone listened they would have saved themself a headache. I have pumped in the past when the trend was strong and if you look closely at all my previous predictions they are pretty much spot on. I'm waging the price will rise to $1 and them I'm out but hope others can earn even more of that's what they aim for. I have only given advice based on my weighty experience and all advice is evidence if you had researched all links properly. Anyway it's all good if it's on the up. I'm not here to bash really I'm not.
I don't really gamble. I go to auctions a lot and play the margins. Everyone is entitled to make money their own way
Like IH is a same forum for credibility GAL!!
So that's 20c pre-dilution? We were at 19.99!!
Hope you're right for a lot of people's sake. I'll bail when I'm 20% up, I don't need to chase that hard, this is speculation borne of interest in the industry. I do hope the shorts get burned; in my very limited experience of buying stocks, they have really messed this company up. I'm really not worried about their status against mine as a retail operator; I just hope the industry stays afloat as there are implications should the industry fail as a whole.
GLTA
Take a chill pill Hawkeye it's not about you or I we are both here to make money
Mansour Group? Maybe that's the key here. If they can get cigalikes into the MENA regions as first player, they have quite a large fresh market to tap into.
Bearing in mind the eradication of the notes etc, I'm a little underwhelmed by a 50% rise only. Let's hope it's a start to putting the shorts to bed and this can finally rise.
And in case you are wondering if I have had a sudden change of heart, sorry to disappoint you but this still doesn't represent long term value for me personally. Each to their own and GLTA
Thanks CUIN good night
From a UK perspective, our vape stores are clean spaces, run by educated people, at least the successful ones are. The majority of our customers have graduated from cigs likes, which ECIG is famous for.
I speak with an authoritative tone because on this subject I am an absolute authority in the UK. Good night.
We'll yes actually I do know but I'm tired of this shizzle I was making honest comments which would be useful DD only if people would stop and think. Go to www.rightmove.co.uk and you can see similar units at Westfield Stratford for the same ball-park figures. UK salaries would be in the region of $13 an hour. We don't tend to pay retail staff very well but we too up on bonuses. Store for I have no idea about but if you want an estimate and it's a wild guess I would say $80-$100k, therefore first year spend around $350,000.
Gross margin is high at retail for 100-130% so if they make $200k in sales the lose $250k in year one. If you have other figures let me know tomorrow it's midnight here have a nice evening.
I'm sure he can make his own mind up. I'm a vegitarian but I don't smoke pot thanks for those kind words, we can all see your class ??
Ok CUIN it's a large space in prime retail. I estimate they are paying $200k for the store, can only image what they paid for the fit and of course the staff, marketing etc. Best part of $250k up in smoke (vape) I would say.
Vape shops here don't need to be bigger than 800sqft as the British temperament is a little fragile. We don't go for large white space stores unless there are lots of shoppers already in there. Brits hate being jumped on by reps, it just isn't the proper thing! It's an unmitigated disaster and complete lack of perception and market understanding probably by some idiotic agency only too pleased to grab some of that gold.
It's way too late for VIP to move this model downstream. Maybe the other UK brand Vapestick but again this is one brand and people want choice and not some arrogant marketing hype.
Hope you receive these comments in the honest nature I intended. Seems a lot of people misinterpret my honesty and opinions as bashing for personal gain. There are a lot of problems with the ECIG model and arrogance of the main culprit. Vapers are "hip" and loyal only to their peers, not to a wannabe tobacco company impersonator rolling out the same marketing spin.
I never called 5 cents and I'm still holding stock my dear Sir. Please don't consider me anything other than hopeful but I refuse to be drawn into dillusion. There are far too many that are looking at the wrong pointers that's all I have been saying.
You obviously haven't read the entire history then pal
I hate to admit it but it rings true my friends. Maybe not 5cents but Dan and Phil regardless of reputation are steering an udderless vessel. I hate that there's a lot of folks in deep I really do
Did you not see the video? All that square footage and no customers. Anyway I'm sorry the humor is lost on you but they say if you need to explain a joke it's just not funny.
That's what a lot of potential customers ask. Maybe they even go inside occasionally!
Imagine you are looking for a great new skateboard for just $50. You pass by the biggest skate shop in the most expensive part of town, where you are accosted by a rep and asked to sit down, where they measure your feet and tell you how important a good grip is and that theirs is the most robust and stylish model out there and used by Tony Hawke's younger brother.
A blending boutique is a marketing agencies thought process which results in something so condescending that it becomes a complete laughing stock, money pit. Hope you get the picture!
Complete waste of money I'm straight up telling you!
Loooooollllll
Yep this wipes the floor with the AVS in terms of technology but AVS will appeal to more people as it looks like something they are familiar with. The downside of the AVS is their customers are likely converts to more powerful equipment. Pax will grab the loyalty of people looking to quit, further denying ECIGs aspirations. It's more of a junk stock every day. Get out IMO
It's an officially sponsored resource. It's not just a "website"
Ok get personal then Fatty
Ok fair enough. I wonder how much is left